Anime To dub or not to dub?

[NeoNabishen]

For those of you that have access to more anime than what is seen on Adult swim “not to rage on Adult swim or anything, its what got me started” hear is a question for you.
What’s better the original Japanese with sub titles, or the American dubs?
I’m not saying that one is better then the other I just want your opinion.

[Solo Tremaine]

[font=Tahoma][COLOR=#503F86]Ooh, it's this thread again. There are at least three topics with the same subject in the AL archives, and I didn't even run a very comprehensive search. I must say, though- you do need to work on your post quality, NeoNabishen. It's not... horribly bad in and of itself, it's just not very good. Try and flesh things out- add more detail and take greater care with your spelling. It makes things easier and more interesting to read.[/font]

Anyway- I usually prefer to listen to the English voices- I'll do that at least once, even if the voices are rather bad. Thankfully most of the ones I watch are rather good, at least bearable. All of the ADV series I've seen so far have been satisfactory; it's mostly the older ones which are less easy to listen to in English. MADOX-01 and Winds of Amnesia are two which I wasn't very impressed with.

As much as I like Cardcaptors, the more I hear about the dub the more I want to see the Japanese version because so much of it is cut out. I don't mind having the audio in Japanese if it means I get a better plot and/or nicer sounding voices, but it's up to the dubbing company as to how much they edit and change as to whether the translation's good enough. So it entirely depends on the company and the programme itself, as far as I'm concerned.[/COLOR]

[outlawstar69]

Sadly, in alot of cases, when a series is dubbed it is also automaticly cut and edited as well. At least in cases where the market is TV audiences... when it's a direct to DVD release, that's not what happens... for me it all depends on the emotion, quality, and professionalism of the anime in question. Trigun was good subbed, but it was excellent dubbed. Slayers is hilarious subbed, but it's dub is horrible...

[AzureWolf]

[font=Georgia][color=blue]Wait, I'm confused. What are we talking about? Are we talking about language preference, or what changes are made to an anime when they air on foreign (foreign to Japan) television?[/color][/font]

[font=Georgia][color=#0000ff]Yeah Solo! 'represent'! I also enjoy a good dub. :) The thing is, they are hard to find. Even when you find a good one, you tend to get testy if you saw the series in Japanese first. I'll use Hellsing's Alucard as an example since I talked about it today. Alucard's english dub is perfectly good. In fact, if you never heard the Japanese version, it would be impossible for you to say that the voice doesn't suit Alucard's character. On the other hand, when you put the english dub side-by-side with the Japanese dub, you notice that the english voice actor is missing that [i]hint[/i] of maniacal semblance.[/color][/font]

[font=Georgia][color=#0000ff]It'd be interesting to hear some preferences for particular series, and which dubbing you heard first.[/color][/font]

[Semjaza]

I'm mixed on this subject. I have no problem with subtitles, especially with anime because they usually seem to be a more literal translation than with the dubs. Usually I stick with the subs just because that's how the anime was created and, in my mind, meant to be seen. It's the same approach I have with live action foreign films.

At the same time, I usually find myself watching anime at odd hours in an attempt to relax. I don't feel like reading, so I put the dub on. Most of them are rather acceptable. I've heard a few that are almost vomit enducing though (one with a name like Gryzor's Wing or something is the main culprit).

In terms of what Azurewolf said... I don't know what people think anymore. Dubbing is just the process of putting different voices and sounds over the originals. Anything else is a matter of localization, really. I'm not sure if this thread is trying to concentrate on both, or one or the other though.

In terms of actual sound preference, I don't know. The main issue with dubbing is that they often throw in some accent that just shouldn't be present. It's totally bizarre for a woman in an anime to use Japanese terms with a southern US accent, for example.

On the other hand, I don't know or understand Japanese. For all I know, a Japanese voice actor that I think sounds good might be considered horrible in Japan.

For the most part, though, I just stick with the subs for the few reasons I mentioned.

[James]

[color=#707875]Deja vu! ^_^;

I haven't seen a huge variety of anime, but I've definitely seen examples of good and bad dubbing.

I think that dubbing makes a lot of sense, especially if it's done well. If a dub were done faithful to the original script and if it were done with appropriate voices, I'm sure most people would probably prefer the dub to the subtitles. Unfortunately, we all know that this is not the case in too many circumstances.

One of the problems (in my view) could be that the American companies who do the localization do not have enough faith in their audiences. I mean, they put on these extremely stereotypical American accents, which seems like a way of dumbing down the content. It's sort of like saying "the masses would [i]never [/i]like it if we had Japanese accents or something a bit more faithful to the script". Maybe I'm wrong there, but some dubs do seem like an insult to the intelligence of viewers.

In any case, I'm certainly not anti-dub. In most cases, I'd much rather watch a dub than a sub. This is partly because I often [i]do [/i]enjoy the dubbed voices -- they often seem to be a bit more expressive than their Japanese counterparts. I often find Japanese actors to be incredibly wooden and monotone. Of course, I don't speak Japanese, so I'm definitely not in the best position to make that judgement anyway.

Subtitles don't bother me, I'd say. Most foreign movies I watch are subtitled. In fact, out of all the foreign movies I've ever seen, I'd say maybe one or two were dubbed. So it's a very small number. And I don't mind that at all -- if the subtitles are well-translated, then I think they're perfectly adequate.

Case in point would be the Ring movies. I'm a huge fan of this Japanese horror series and while it's not an anime, I would say that a dub would [i]really [/i]hurt it. It's meant to be a serious horror film. In my opinion, a dub would kind of cheapen that, because it'd be really obvious and potentially very jarring. I can't imagine that a dubbed scream would sound too good against the original actor's reaction.

So I'm really a fence sitter on this issue. I can see [i]why [/i]dubbing occurs -- most little kids aren't going to want their Pokemon subtitled. And generally speaking, I think that the dub actors probably help to attract kids to these types of shows. So we also have to bear in mind that during the localization process, there's probably an element of making things more understandable/simpler for the kids.

If dubbing is done well (ie: Spirited Away), I'm quite happy to watch it -- and I'd rather have it than not.

Otherwise, for me, subtitles are the way to go.

But certainly, you won't find me railing against dubbing all day long. I'm not under any illusions about why it's done. And I realize that most of the people who watch the anime on TV are probably not the truly "hardcore" fans and Japanophiles who will go crazy over anything that is subtitled. It's just not a realistic assessment in my view.[/color]

[Dagger]

All cartoons are dubbed. I'm totally against dubbing live-action movies or television series, but anime is an entirely different matter.

Whenever possible, I try to watch shows in both English and Japanese. I feel that the best dubs are either a [i]perfect[/i] imitation of the Japanese version (FLCL, for example), or offer an alternative interpretation of the main characters' personalities and lines. Obviously the second option is somewhat risky; however, I've seen it succeed in marvelous ways. Fruits Basket has a truly amazing dub, but if you watch it in Japanese, you'll quickly learn that the dub and sub VAs have a different kind of chemistry.... which in turn affects the show's overall atmosphere.

The one thing I really hate is how certain people denounce dubs without even bothering to give them a fair trial. It's always fun to ask these so-called purists whether they've seen Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, and even more amusing to witness their perplexity as they work their minds around the fact that the film was made for an English cast. Not all Japanese voice actors are superbly talented. Frankly, I think the language barrier [i]does[/i] make a difference in how fans perceive Japanese acting; since you don't know precisely what the characters are saying, it's much more difficult for their lines to end up sounding forced or awkward.

And I also suspect that people tend to be very, very critical of English VAs' work. I'm guilty of this myself; I completely over-reacted to the first few episodes of the Witch Hunter Robin dub, only later realizing that it was actually extremely good.

Some recent dubs have been quite impressive, and I'm sure that we can hope to see even better work in the future. For now, I'll just watch my anime in whatever language sounds best.

~Dagger~

[Kei]

[color=darkblue]I'm pretty much inclined to agree with Dagger on this one. It really all depends on which sounds better of the two. I watch all animé in both Japanese and English with subtitles (if the format allows. Sometimes, I only have VHS or a DVD doesn't come with Japanese audio) and it's a real toss-up. For most animés (i.e. Mobile Fighter G Gundam, Outlaw Star, Ranma 1/2) I prefer the Japanese track, but for others (Love Hina, Martian Successor Nadesico) the English track is much better.

In reality, it mainly ties into whether or not I've heard the VA before. If I here someone often enough, I can voice spot (like with David Lucas, Dan Green, Rachel Lillis, Spike Spencer and several others) and it tends to get grating in a way. I mean, I know the voice actor field isn't broad by any means really, but once you get to a certain point, it gets sort of stale in a way. So, like I said before, it can really go either way for me.[/color]

[sailor firestar]

As for me I like to watch both. If there's a manga I'll read that too b/c then it's like getting 3 different stories about the same characters. If there's a series you really love, like for me Sailor Moon, you can experience more of it and get more insight into what the people involved in its creation, animation, subbing, and dubbing were trying to get across to the audience. I think subtitled shows are more true to the actual Japanese dialogue which can sometimes be confusing but is still worth the effort it takes to read and understand it all. Some dubs are good, some dubs are bad but the best thing about them is you can really experience the artwork of the anime and see all those little visual jokes and asides that you might miss if you were busy reading subtitles. :love:

[eleanor]

[color=firebrick] I usually watch the Japanese dub, but there are some anime that I will listen too in the English dub. I mean, [b]Spirited Away, Cowboy Bebop,[/b] and [b]The Animatrix[/b] are some examples of excellent dubbing. Seriously, more than half the population in the US probably can't read fast enough to watch using the subtitles. No offense, but it's really true.

I don't care if anything is dubbed unless I can watch a subtitled version of it. Like, [b] Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon[/b] had to be dubbed because American people can't voice Asian voices. It's likewise for Asians, but I guess it's better for them because English [i]is[/i] a hard language to learn.[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[quote name='maladjusted][color=firebrick']Seriously, more than half the population in the US probably can't read fast enough to watch using the subtitles. No offense, but it's really true.[/color][/quote][font=Georgia][color=blue]In this forum, I've been noticing quite a few bogus statistics, so I'm just wondering: is that from personal experience or an actual fact?[/color][/font]

[Panda]

If you are on an anime message board this topic will pop up a million times. LOL

I actually watch an anime in Japanese, then with subs, then in english. I am very fortunate that my first language was Japanese since that is what my family speaks at home. I compare and contast the versions. I see how close the versions are...then as fun I will see if my translation of the Japanese version is close to what the subs actually say. I know, that is pretty sad when you watch an anime just to check your language skills. LOL

All in all, it is personal preference on which you like. Sometimes the voice acting in English or Japanese is annoying. If you don't like the sound of someones voice it makes watching anime in either language difficult.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='AzureWolf][font=Georgia][color=blue]In this forum, I've been noticing quite a few bogus statistics, so I'm just wondering: is that from personal experience or an actual fact?[/color'][/font][/quote]

Judging from how she worded it, I'm sure it was just a jab in the dark. There's obviously a sect of the population that it is an issue for, but I'm sure most people could do it. It's mostly just a matter laziness it seems.

[Soliel]

[COLOR=GREEN]Subbed vs. Dubbed, I haven't encountered this question in a while. Well as for me, personally I favor the dubbed, if its done right. But for cases like "Knights of the Zodiac" (which has really bad dubbing) I would prefer the subtidled version. There's also things like "Dragonball GT" that I first saw subbed, and it seemes kind of wierd dubbed.

When I started an anime club at my school several months ago. I had to make the desision whether we would show subbed or dubbed anime. I let them decide and it turned out that dubbed was what they wanted, not because of any personal preference, but because many of the Basic level students couldn't read the subtitles.[/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Usually the dubbing is so poor that subtitled is the only way to watch something and not lose much. However, if it's really professionally done (as with Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away, it doesn't really matter). Though of course if you want to have the "exotic" or "authentic" (or whatever you get out of it) feel, then it's best to have the characters speak Japanese. If I have the option, I even play my video games subtitled.

[Dagger]

[quote name='BeccaDG']I prefer dubbed.[/quote]

Welcome to OtakuBoards, BeccaDG. ^_^

Unfortunately, this type of post (short and not particularly thoughtful) qualifies as spam and will always be deleted. Before writing another reply, you should attempt to re-read our rules.

If you have any questions, please PM me or one of the other moderators. We'll be happy to help you out.

~Dagger~

[Balinese]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]When it comes to subs vs. dubs, i think it depends on the anime.

i prefer subs for certain animes such as Weiß Kreuz, Gundam Wing, and Final Fantasy:Unlimited. It's not really a question of quality, though, so much as i'm biased towards certain VAs (Koyasu Takehito, Miki Shinichirou, Ryoutaro Okiayu... yummy :luv: )

the dubs that have been done well are not necessarily BETTER than the subs, nor are the subs necessarily better than the dubs. They're just different. Dubbing can screw up a good anime, and change the story, but sometimes the dub voices can be really good and the dubbing/mouth-movement matching (whatever you call that) can be timed perfectly, and the story isn't far off.

in particular, i like the dubs of Read or Die, Trigun, and Cowboy Bebop for their voice actors. (Johnny Yong Bosch's voice is wonderful, and Steven Jay Blum's makes me melt.)[/FONT]

[Maikeru]

Dubbing is fine with me as long as the dubbing team is good. The cowboy bebop dubs were good. They are also using the cowboy bebop cast for other animes now too. Maybe some well dubbed animes will come out soon.

[hawke3000]

I prefer to watch subs, but I certainly have nothing against dubs. There are really good arguments on both sides. On the sub side, you have what originally came with the anime, and(at least in my opinion, others may think differently) better voices. On the dub side you have the whole not having to read thing, and your not missing out on the animation. I am a fast reader so I get enough time to read the subtitle and still get the animation in, but others might not be able to do so. So I guess it really winds down to preference and whether or not you have enough energy to read the subtitles really fast .

[Guest BeccaDG]

[quote name='hawke3000']On the dub side you have the whole not having to read thing, and your not missing out on the animation. I am a fast reader so I get enough time to read the subtitle and still get the animation in, but others might not be able to do so. So I guess it really winds down to preference and whether or not you have enough energy to read the subtitles really fast .[/quote]Heh, you sure got part of the reason I prefer dubbed. ;) Depending on the sub, whether it's letter boxed or the subtitling is actually part of the picture, the subtitling can actually block out some of the animation I'm trying to watch, not to mention clash with it. I saw a sub where the titling was a yellow that seemed to clash with just about everything, unfortunately, before anyone asks, I don't remember the title. Best case you've got letterbox with room for the titling below the picture, the titles are a nice readable size and color, and they don't go by too fast or too slow. They can be too slow. In it's own way it's just as weird as a bad lip sync. Balinese the term for "the dubbing/mouth-movement matching" is lip sync for having the two synchronized. :) For me, with that best case scenario, subtitling isn't bad, the titles only demanding the fraction of my time it takes to read them. I just prefer to be able watch the anime, and comprehend the dialogue at the same time. :D

[Dagger]

[quote name='BeccaDG']Best case you've got letterbox with room for the titling below the picture....[/quote]

That's actually one of my pet peeves, at least when it comes to anime DVDs. Although I appreciate it when fansubbers are careful not to mar the artwork of widescreen shows (Shingetsutan Tsukihime and Gunslinger Girl being two notable examples), most computer monitors have an aspect ratio of 4:3.

Television sets, however, are an entirely different matter; my family owns a 16:9 TV, which means that series in letterbox format look like normal shows if watched on its screen. When subtitles show up in those black bars--as is the case with the Rurouni Kenshin OVAs--they become cut off and are rendered virtually unreadable.

As you may imagine, this is extremely frustrating. Since more and more anime (occasionally even shows that originally aired in 4:3) are being released on widescreen DVDs, I think it's important to discourage putting subtitles anywhere other than at the bottom of the actual picture. Last Exile, Kino's Journey, and Cowboy Bebop: The Movie are all well-subtitled anime which just happen to be presented in 16:9.

~Dagger~

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I agree that subtitles should go nowhere beyond the bottom of the image. This includes "widescreen" formats, like Gunslinger Girl, which have funky little patterns along the top and bottom. That is: put the subtitles in the black beyond, please.

I, myself, don't like dubbing, simply because it's not the way the show was meant to be seen. Neither are subs, but I'm doing my best to learn Japanese...

I like being able to take things in at face value, not whatever twisted form dubbers make them (some dubbs are good, but most...*shudder*).[/FONT][/COLOR]

[r2vq]

I once preferred Dubbed Anime but now prefer Subbed.

I agreed with those on this thread who pointed out your attention being diverted from the animation to the dialogue. (You should listen to dialogue, watch the animation)

But after a few years of watching and learning (and the inovation of the internet :D ) I learned of Anime in its original form, (What? Nappa [i]did[/i] kill those people in the helicopters?) and was deeply insulted that American studios would change an original piece of work!

Although Subtitless are how I go today (unless something good is on TV) I have noticed the action I am missing when I have to take time to read a subtitle, or when a subtitle is too long or not contrasted enough to read.

Thus, like Godel-san, I am trying to feel my way around the Japanese Language. =) And I get a credit for it at school too. :D

-ArV

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]This question has probably been going on since Speed Racer.

Anyway I think it all depends on the quality of the dub which determines my vote. There are good dubs and bad dubs.

Take Mobile Suit Gundam Wing and Trigun for eaxample-atleast for my example. I've had the opportunity to see both the dub and sub version of these anime and noticed that it was translated pretty much to the letter. Except for Duo's references to being Shinigami-God of Death.

I liked Duo's dub voice better than his Japanese voice, but I think Hiiro's fits better in the original. But still these anime didn't lose anything through translation

However those are examples of good dubs. An example of a bad dub is hands down Sailor Moon. Dic Completely chopped it up. Changed the names of all of the characters. Messed up attacks, cut scenes and removed the puns and some of the tradition. Plus the voices scared me.

One of the worst things DiC did for the series was messing with Rei and Usagi's relationship and turning it into Raye and Serena's relationship. They turned Reiinto a nasty person who hates Usagi/Serena. A good example of this is episode #43 (#38 over here) where Rei/Raye holds up the Crescent Moon stick. The original dialog goes like this:
Jupiter:You really do hate her, don't you?
Mars: If I hated her so much, would I agree to protect this for her? *holds out Crescent Moon Wand*
Jupiter: I'm sorry
Then Mars jumps out of the bushes first

I can't remember the whole dialog from the Dub, but I think Mars' explaination was that Serena had left it there by accident.

CWi didn't do too much better when they decided to change Michiru's line about how the first people to kiss were Adam and eve to Michelle's Line about Micheal.

My advice is to get DVD's where you can choose whether the subtitles, but sometioems I get sidetracked. Besides, most DVDs have a menu page where you can choose English or Japanese. I hope this helped[/color]

[maikiratori]

I myself prefer the American dubs... The dubs flow much easier and you don't miss anything if someone is speaking really fast... It's very challenging trying to watch an anime [I]and[/I] reading subs at the same time (obviously I'm a novice... only an anime addict for 1 1/2 years). Besides, if we decided to go all the way over to subs, what would happen to our favorite va's? I mean they'd all be put out of jobs and everyone'd be sad... No one to do cool anime va-ing..Only Disney va-ing... which doesn't really count... I mean it sorta does... but not really...So yeah... defenately the dubed versions for me^^