Anime Paranoia Agent

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] I just finished watching the series.

Paranoia Agent is like the good version of Boogiepop Phantom. Everyone hail Satoshi the director for making PA a great series. It will now be known that Satoshi Kon is the shiz.

Ok. So now I'll profess my love/hate relationship with PA.

[b]Stuff that's Gooood[/b]

1) I love Maniwa! Is he cool or what? He's cool. And the coolness of him [spoiler] not falling back into society as r2vp said.[/spoiler]

2) Oh, humanity, you'll be the death of us. Somehow Satoshi Kon managed to make us have at least a nano-second of sympathy or understanding for all of the characters, which is also an amazing feat considering the characters. We're all human. Embrace it, love it, whatever. Even though the small stories are insanely boring at times, it was still worth it.

3) Layers, yay. Always kept you guessing and wondering, and at the end you were still confused about some thing, yes? I know I was. Perhaps too many layers, but whatever.

4) You can never get enough themes about society. It's a party.

[b]Stuff that Sucks Beyond All Reasoning[/b]

1) Paranoia Agent did not freak me out. Not once. I thought it was supposed to be the most bizzare-o thing ever. It wasn't. Ok, so the opening scene sort of made me go 'this is bizzare', but nothing else.

2) Tsuki. I hate her. No. Really. Anime is so sexist it's not even funny. 'LET'S MAKE 98% OF THE GIRLS WEAK/INSECURE/(or in other cases, highly annoying/naive/dumb) LOSERS! Woo-hoo! What a blast!'

3) The disappointment that I knew was coming. [spoiler]As the series boiled down... I knew that the whole reasoning behind Shounen Bat was going to be...a bit...of...a...disappointment. And it came. It sucked. Uhm. Yes, so Tsuki's puppy died because she wasn't paying attention. That's REALLY just the BEST traumatic scene ever. Even with Tsuki's weak character...that's just lame. Badly.[/spoiler][/color]

[Dagger]

Interesting comments, Lunox. I actually prefer Boogiepop Phantom to Paranoia Agent; it's a lot more consistent in terms of style and atmosphere, and I thought the way in which the characters' stories tied into each other were more interesting. Boogiepop [i]does[/i] make sense (contrary to popular belief, haha), but it's much harder to figure out than PA, which for me meant that it had a lot more replay value.

In PA, everything falls together almost too neatly--I'd watch it again, but mainly to see if I missed any huge clues the first time around. It also felt more like an "experiment," if that makes any sense; while the setting-heavy episodes were enjoyable, I thought they made the show weaker in a structural sense.

As for the reason she [spoiler]created Shounen Bat, I never saw it as being solely because Maromi died. It had much more to do with her relationship with her father than with how she felt about the puppy. That's the key factor which I wish had been introduced earlier--her father and the role he played in her childhood. I found that her reason for creating Shounen Bat made sense, but mainly on a logical level rather than an emotional level. That said, I think you're really underestimating how the power balance in such a relationship can affect a young child. Her guilt, shame and fear must have been truly crushing.[/spoiler]

[quote name='r2vq]Of course... when you say 'last scene' you mean the scene where you see [spoiler']a mirror of the first episode. The cellphones and whatnot. And a few characters rebuilding their lives, right?[/spoiler][/quote]
Yep, that's what I was referring to.

Another reason I like the idea of [spoiler]Maniwa breaking out of the cycle is that it means the world of the show isn't totally stagnant. There's some renewal/change, even if it stems solely from a single character. On that note, seeing the older detective have some kind of effect on Sagi's life--i.e. causing her to be a little more self-confident or open in the next cycle--would have pretty much made the ending perfect in my eyes.

Actually... could her changed appearance (shorter hair, etc.) have been at all symbolic of a slight change in her personality? Or do you think it's just part of the overall shift from one cycle to the next?[/spoiler]

That's all for now, I guess. :animeswea

~Dagger~

[EVA Unit 100]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Interesting comments, Lunox. I actually prefer Boogiepop Phantom to Paranoia Agent; it's a lot more consistent in terms of style and atmosphere, and I thought the way in which the characters' stories tied into each other were more interesting. Boogiepop [i]does[/i] make sense (contrary to popular belief, haha), but it's much harder to figure out than PA, which for me meant that it had a lot more replay value.

In PA, everything falls together almost too neatly--I'd watch it again, but mainly to see if I missed any huge clues the first time around. It also felt more like an "experiment," if that makes any sense; while the setting-heavy episodes were enjoyable, I thought they made the show weaker in a structural sense.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I liked the experimentalness of Paranoia Agent. I felt that the variety of Paranoia's many styles made the show stronger; the fact everything about it was entirely radically different while being tied to the exact same plotline made it more emotionally involving for me. I guess since PA is the FLCL of its genre, and you don't like FLCL, you wouldn't be as obsessed with Paranoia Agent as I was.

Also, if anyone caught the AS broadcast of the first episode, did you notice that it featured the second uneditted "sh**" in AS history (the first being in the last Space Ghost episode)? This could mean that the editting for the series will be minimal. The fact AS now allows TV-MA (although it's less of jumping up in the level of content and more of the FCC going cookoo about preexisting content) might given PA more space in terms of what they can get away with.

[eleanor]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Interesting comments, Lunox. I actually prefer Boogiepop Phantom to Paranoia Agent; it's a lot more consistent in terms of style and atmosphere, and I thought the way in which the characters' stories tied into each other were more interesting. Boogiepop [i]does[/i] make sense (contrary to popular belief, haha), but it's much harder to figure out than PA, which for me meant that it had a lot more replay value.

In PA, everything falls together almost too neatly--I'd watch it again, but mainly to see if I missed any huge clues the first time around. It also felt more like an "experiment," if that makes any sense; while the setting-heavy episodes were enjoyable, I thought they made the show weaker in a structural sense.

As for the reason she [spoiler]created Shounen Bat, I never saw it as being solely because Maromi died. It had much more to do with her relationship with her father than with how she felt about the puppy. That's the key factor which I wish had been introduced earlier--her father and the role he played in her childhood. I found that her reason for creating Shounen Bat made sense, but mainly on a logical level rather than an emotional level. That said, I think you're really underestimating how the power balance in such a relationship can affect a young child. Her guilt, shame and fear must have been truly crushing.[/spoiler]

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[color=darkslateblue] Eh. I just didn't like Boogiepop Phantom. I thought the characters were bland and the story was boring. Mostly I just thought it was boring. But I must say, Paranoia Agent had some mighty boring parts, too. It was just more watchable for me. BP had that whole 'too many layers' thing I mentioned in my earlier post. But please don't misunderstand; it's not that I don't like many-layered stuff, but watching anime is a light hobby of mine. I don't want to sit here forever and re-watch stuff just to understand it. Literature, yes. Anime, no. Now, if I were a more hardcore fan (i.e. you) I would be examining it to death like I do with novels, but I'm not. :/

As for [spoiler] the creation of Shounen Bat, I believe you brought up two points that I can use to show why I didn't like the whole idea. [i]That's the key factor which I wish had been introduced earlier--her father and the role he played in her childhood. I found that her reason for creating Shounen Bat made sense, but mainly on a logical level rather than an emotional level.[/i] Exactly. When the hell did logic ever come into Tsuki's mind? Shounen Bat's 'creation' was pure emotion, not logic. Tsuki did not sit there and think for hours on end and then decided to create Shounen Bat and keep him until she needed an outlet. And you're exactly right when the father/daughter relationship had a lot of do with this. Her upbringing had damaging effects on her overall character and personality, so why not really spend some time to concentrate on that?

I may have underestimated the effects of such a relationship, but I still don't understand why they didn't spend more time going into the problem. I still think of Tsuki has a heinously weak and annoying character. [/spoiler][/color]

[Dagger]

[quote name='EVA Unit 100']Well, I liked the experimentalness of Paranoia Agent. I felt that the variety of Paranoia's many styles made the show stronger; the fact everything about it was entirely radically different while being tied to the exact same plotline made it more emotionally involving for me. I guess since PA is the FLCL of its genre, and you don't like FLCL, you wouldn't be as obsessed with Paranoia Agent as I was.[/quote]
It's not that I felt it was a negative factor in and of itself. Rather, the show tried to have it both ways (by exploring a variety of concepts & styles but also bringing in a larger story arc to hold the disparate elements together). This, I think, is why Lunox (and I as well, although to a lesser extent) had a problem with the suddenness of the big revelations toward the end.

While it was clear throughout that Maromi would play a central role, Sagi [spoiler]did not make the most compelling main character--it didn't even seem that she was the main character until the final three episodes. At first I thought she was more of a catalyst than anything else. The entire show does contain plenty of clues about the true nature of Maromi & Shounen Bat... what's lacking are clues about Sagi. That's why I sensed a kind of dichotomy between the setting-oriented episodes and the plot-oriented episodes.[/spoiler]

To clarify, I like Paranoia Agent quite a bit, and I was deeply impressed by its ending. It's not perfect, but few anime are. So I don't want to seem as if I'm going out of my way to pick on the series.

[b]Lunox:[/b] Although I never found myself outright disliking Sagi, you've made a valid point regarding how weak she is as a character. By that I mean the fact that she remains a non-entity--a kind of bland enigma--for much of the show, not the fact that she's emotionally and/or mentally weak (although she obviously is). For me, the most compelling characters were Harumi, the older detective whose name I can never remember, Taeko and Maniwa.

~Dagger~

[KKKEEENNN3]

THIS SHOW (TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW) IS BEYOND WEIRD. It a show of crackheads, prositutes, hobos, and other people who have no job, no hobbies (good ones in a way), no careers, no future, and probably the end of life for them.
In other words, this show really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, FREAK PEOPLE OUT.

[Guest Aly]

That's why it's so freakin' awesome.

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE=Dagger]I hadn't really considered it until now, but this show has many things in common with Boogiepop Phantom, which happens to be among my favorite anime. If you haven't seen Boogiepop, you should definitely check it out. Paranoia Agent's storyline is more linear (not to mention far less convoluted), and it uses flashbacks judiciously rather than liberally. Yet as is the case with Boogiepop, each one of PA's episodes seems to focus on a different main character. These people are connected to each other in a number of obvious and not-so-obvious ways.

More importantly, both shows revolve around a string of serial attacks. The perpetrators (Shounen Bat and Boogiepop) appear to strike at random, moving unnoticed through the city until they encounter their next victims. And although Shounen Bat isn't quite an angel of death, he too has evolved into a figure of near-mythological proportions.

Paranoia Agent's artwork is smooth, polished and occasionally caricaturish, while Boogiepop's aims primarily for a stark kind of realism. But the characters in each look refreshingly normal and human. I guess what I'm trying to say is: despite the fact that PA was obviously influenced by Boogiepop, it remains a unique and fascinating series. I really enjoy comparing the two shows, since they're outstanding examples of their genre and of anime in general.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]


[COLOR=Navy]To me, Boogiepop Phantom and Paranoia Agent are two completely different species. Boogiepop Phantom has more in common with Serial Experiments Lain than Paranoia Agent. Paranoia Agent is totally original compared to both those titles. Shounen Bat aka Lil' Slugger doesn't attack at random he attacks people who are going mad. PA was "certainly" not influenced by Boogiepop Phantom either. Satoshi Kon wanted to create a series that could show a vivid and accurate portrayal of paranoia on the human psyche.

If you have the dvd's they even have a psychiatrist that talks about each and everyone of the paranoia's shown in the series. Boogiepop Phantom is excellent but it's only a show that is recommended to hardcore anime fanatics. BP has such a non-linear storytelling structure that the casual anime fans would get lost. In fact 90% of the people out there would just dimiss the entire show after the first episode. Paranoia Agent is different because this is the show that caters to all audiences. On Adult Swim, they have two reviews that gave Samurai Champloo & Paranoia Agent a C+, these two review publications don't know anything about anime except their B+ review of Dragonball Z. [/COLOR] :animesigh

[Dagger]

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']To me, Boogiepop Phantom and Paranoia Agent are two completely different species. Boogiepop Phantom has more in common with Serial Experiments Lain than Paranoia Agent. Paranoia Agent is totally original compared to both those titles. Shounen Bat aka Lil' Slugger doesn't attack at random he attacks people who are going mad. PA was "certainly" not influenced by Boogiepop Phantom either. Satoshi Kon wanted to create a series that could show a vivid and accurate portrayal of paranoia on the human psyche.[/color][/quote]
Fair enough, but it's treading on dangerous ground to call anything "totally original," especially in comparison to other works that often get branded with the same adjective. Paranoia Agent itself is very similar to some of Kon's previous anime (including Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue and even Tokyo Godfathers). At least from my perspective, it still belongs squarely in the same category or genre as series like Boogiepop Phantom, Lain (which I personally think have much less in common than Boogiepop & PA, but oh well), and--albeit to a somewhat lesser extent--Requiem from the Darkness.

I'll concede that it's a rather rash leap to say that PA was intentionally influenced by Boogiepop, but I don't see what's so negative about saying that they have similarities. If anything, I meant that as a huge compliment to PA.

I'm not sure I like how you phrased your assessment of Shounen Bat. I'm also not sure why you said that he doesn't strike at random, because all that does is reiterate my original statement ("[Shounen Bat] appear[s] to strike at random") in a blunter light. Saying that something appears or seems a certain way is rarely equivalent to saying that it [i]is[/i] a certain way--especially since I wrote that rather early on in the show.

Anyway, he doesn't attack people who are going insane; he attacks people who [spoiler]want an escape.[/spoiler] I'm fairly confident that you meant it differently, since you seem to have a good understanding of the show, but the wording might be a little misleading for those who are just getting into it.

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Paranoia Agent is different because this is the show that caters to all audiences.[/color][/quote]
This is where I think you're completely wrong. Sure, maybe Miyazaki movies cater to all audiences. But Paranoia Agent? No way. Even Bebop & Champloo only have broad appeal in contrast to [i]other[/i] anime.

~Dagger~

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE=Dagger]Fair enough, but it's treading on dangerous ground to call anything "totally original," especially in comparison to other works that often get branded with the same adjective. Paranoia Agent itself is very similar to some of Kon's previous anime (including Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue and even Tokyo Godfathers). At least from my perspective, it still belongs squarely in the same category or genre as series like Boogiepop Phantom, Lain (which I personally think have much less in common than Boogiepop & PA, but oh well), and--albeit to a somewhat lesser extent--Requiem from the Darkness.

I'll concede that it's a rather rash leap to say that PA was intentionally influenced by Boogiepop, but I don't see what's so negative about saying that they have similarities. If anything, I meant that as a huge compliment to PA.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]The only thing I find similar between PA and Boogiepop is that the script writer for some of Paranoia's episodes is Seishi Minakami the same person who screenplayed a few episodes of Boogiepop. Yes, they both are weird mystery shows which blends alternate reality and fantasy worlds but unlike Boogiepop, Paranoia Agent is more of a psycho-emotion thriller.

Tokyo Godfathers, Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue are only similar because Satoshi Kon likes to focus on anime which doesn't include abnormal powers or mechs. Tokyo Godfathers had more of a holiday-feel to it, Perfect Blue is an Alfred Hitchcock inspired flick, Millenium Actress seperates from suspense and tells a love story, Paranoia Agent actually dives into the human mind and tells a story. All completely different, if you ask me.

What Neon Genesis Evangelion is to RahXephon, Serial Experiments is to Boogiepop Phantom. We all have opinions and this is mine.[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=Dagger]I'm not sure I like how you phrased your assessment of Shounen Bat. I'm also not sure why you said that he doesn't strike at random, because all that does is reiterate my original statement ("[Shounen Bat] appear[s] to strike at random") in a blunter light. Saying that something appears or seems a certain way is rarely equivalent to saying that it [i]is[/i] a certain way--especially since I wrote that rather early on in the show.

Anyway, he doesn't attack people who are going insane; he attacks people who [spoiler]want an escape.[/spoiler] I'm fairly confident that you meant it differently, since you seem to have a good understanding of the show, but the wording might be a little misleading for those who are just getting into it.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]I've seen the show twice and from what I can see, the attacks aren't random at least from my perspective. They all seem like random attacks at first but later on the cops find out what is really going on. All of the attacks are connected, what do you think the math equations the old man is writing mean? For every attack there is a connection not a coincidence.

Saying Boogiepop Phantom is similar to Paranoia Agent is just as misleading.
[QUOTE=Dagger]
This is where I think you're completely wrong. Sure, maybe Miyazaki movies cater to all audiences. But Paranoia Agent? No way. Even Bebop & Champloo only have broad appeal in contrast to [i]other[/i] anime. [/QUOTE]

I could also flip this another way. Miyazaki films usually cater to the "Disney" audience, while Kon's work caters to the 18-34+ crowd. Either way I compared this to Boogiepop not Champloo or Bebop. Paranoia agent is less vague and more entertaining and has a hook.[/COLOR] :cool:

[Tatsubei Yagyu]

Did anybody esle notice the uber danger everybody in the intro was in... And yet to were smiling, or laughing hysterically? And the music was freakin' creepy... But I watched the second episode anyway... and was SO confused... did I miss that much in the first episode?

And plus, that Ichi kid is a little doughnut hole.... :mad:
"I'm the greatest at EVERYTHING I do."

Plus that damn shiny thing he does... he was practicing it in the mirror!!!!! :animeangr

But, I liked the show and will watch it tommorrow. :D

[Dagger]

[quote name='Otaku America][COLOR=Navy']Tokyo Godfathers had more of a holiday-feel to it, Perfect Blue is an Alfred Hitchcock inspired flick, Millenium Actress seperates from suspense and tells a love story, Paranoia Agent actually dives into the human mind and tells a story. All completely different, if you ask me.[/COLOR][/quote]
What I meant in this case is that there are specific episodes of Paranoia Agent that parody/reference the films mentioned above. For example, episode 8 corresponds to Tokyo Godfathers. There are also shared elements of style in general, but that's a more subjective matter.

[quote][COLOR=Navy]I've seen the show twice and from what I can see, the attacks aren't random at least from my perspective. They all seem like random attacks at first but later on the cops find out what is really going on. All of the attacks are connected, what do you think the math equations the old man is writing mean? For every attack there is a connection not a coincidence.[/color][/quote]
I must have been really unclear or something, haha. What I meant to say in my post above is that we completely agree on this. The attacks are intended to appear random, but they [spoiler]aren't.[/spoiler] Which [i]is[/i] kind of a spoiler, so both of us might want to start marking it in the future.

~Dagger~

[Otaku America]

[QUOTE=Dagger]I must have been really unclear or something, haha. What I meant to say in my post above is that we completely agree on this. The attacks are intended to appear random, but they [spoiler]aren't.[/spoiler] Which [i]is[/i] kind of a spoiler, so both of us might want to start marking it in the future.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Navy]Fair enough. :animesmil I tried to mark my spoiler but I couldn't get the code to work. Is it something like this [hl=black]Example[/hl] ? [/COLOR]

[r2vq]

Spoiler is the [.spoiler] tag (without the period.)

[quote]Tokyo Godfathers, Millenium Actress, Perfect Blue are only similar because Satoshi Kon likes to focus on anime which doesn't include abnormal powers or mechs. Tokyo Godfathers had more of a holiday-feel to it, Perfect Blue is an Alfred Hitchcock inspired flick, Millenium Actress seperates from suspense and tells a love story, Paranoia Agent actually dives into the human mind and tells a story. All completely different, if you ask me.[/quote]

I think all of them have a different theme and message, but Kon's method of delivery is definately distinctive. They are all similar and can all be identified with Kon, and in that sense they are all the same. Of course, I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying they all share something... ah heh.

-ArV

[Guest BigRed99]

During the prophetic visions, [spoiler]the golden fox that the old man refers to is the fake little slugger.[/spoiler]

Then, during episode 8, [spoiler]the person who is giving the trio all of the suicide ideas is named "FOX" whose name is written in gold letters. One of the last things that we see written by "FOX" in the episode is "I'm going to kill myself soon, too. But before that, I'm going to do something sensational." I believe that this confirms that he killed himself in prison.[/spoiler]

[ffgrl_Ashe]

I saw all 3 of the episodes so far. In the last one the Lil slugger gets arrested. But it was mentioned that all the victoms of the lil slugger were all relieved after they were attacked. And someone said that the lil slugger set him free. So does the lil slugger set people free or something. Well he got arrested so I wonder what will happen to him.

[r2vq]

[quote name='ffgrl_Ashe']I saw all 3 of the episodes so far.[/quote]
There are only three episodes?
ffgrl_Ashe, what you posted is a spoiler to those who haven't seen as much as you. You should use the spoiler tags so people who aren't as far into the series as you are wont have the series ruined for them. ^^

[quote name='BigRed99][spoiler']I believe that this confirms that he killed himself in prison.[/spoiler][/quote]
I disagree with you. Although he may have [spoiler]wanted to die, the look of terror he had on his face when he died and that the detectives saw the Shounen Bat go through the wall makes me think that it wasn't suicide.[/spoiler]

-ArV

[Noside]

Ep3 Spoiler:
[spoiler] Anyone else floored after seeing Ichi's tutor's alternate self?! [/spoiler]

I've got my theories and I'll just mention this parallel I've seen.
I've forgotten the names at the moment,but yeah here's a theory.
[spoiler] The Relieved and the Victim, a balance of Good and Bad if you will. [/spoiler]
Ep:1
[spoiler] The girl who creator the creepy little doll was relieved and the reporter guy was a victim. I don't see how getting attacked relieved him.[/spoiler]
Ep2:
[spoiler] Ichi was relieved since he was cleared, but I don't think the kid he hated was relieved to get his block knocked off. [/spoiler]
Ep3:
[spoiler] The tutor was relieved of course, but what of Maria? If she's gone for good, then she's another victim. [/spoiler]

I'm liking the direction this Anime is going, each episode is interesting in it's own way. I really liked the [spoiler] battle between the Tutor and Maria and the tutor's fear of losing, that was great writing there. [/spoiler]

[ffgrl_Ashe]

No there aren't three episodes. I'm just saying thats how many they showed so far. But there are definantly more than 3 episodes.

[r2vq]

[quote name='ffgrl_Ashe']No there aren't three episodes. I'm just saying thats how many they showed so far. But there are definantly more than 3 episodes.[/quote]

^^ of course, last i checked there were 13 episodes.
i've only watched the Japanese version and I don't live in the states so I didn't know it was on TV. What channel is it on?

-ArV

[ffgrl_Ashe]

It comes on Cartoon Network during Adult Swim on Saturday nights.

[James P. Galvatron]

Did Ichi play any kind of lasting role in the series or was he just there for a little while and what about his tutor.

[Wolfen91]

I've seen a few episodes but i missed saturdays, i like the animation and all the fine details. it's a litte wierd but i'm still hooked! i don't really get the ending with the credits but that is ok! ne way it's a great aninme and i recomnend it for anime lovers!

[ffgrl_Ashe]

I dont know yet. [spoiler]The lil slugger just goes from one person to another and attacks them.[/spoiler]

[Tyler Koregaten]

I agree with you completely, Paranoia Agent is great. I'm still waiting for the next
episode. The only thing I dislike is the opening ang ending themes. Not the music, but the animation. It's just weird how everyone's laughing at the beginning in peculiar places and at the end everyone's asleep in a circle. :D then :sleep:
weird, huh?




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P.S. Criticize me and you pay! :D (State Alchemists rule! :p )