Concerns about Battle Arena

[Wondershot]

I've been observing the Battle Arena lately, and noticed the latest disturbing trend as of late: excessively long character descriptions/bios. Naturally, I can see how this gets to be a problem, one guy puts up an incredibly long bio, other guy complains about how long it is, and the whole thread goes to hell until Harlequin locks it down. The only thing is, Harlequin says that the excessively long poster is at fault, but shouldn't it be the guy who steps in and interrupts the flow of things by complaining? What is the problem with the long post, anyway?

The angle I'm coming from this is: the Battle/Adventure Arenas are all about [i]writing[/i]. You get two guys together who feel like writing a good story about a fight together, and that's what they do, they [i]write[/i]. When someone comes in and tells them that they have to cut down on the amount of writing they do, well, some really good writers are gonna feel pretty demoralized or annoyed, right?

So, just where is the long bio-writer at fault? Is the post spam? Not really, because it is a piece of writing which ties in with what this person is trying to do, have a spar, which, again, involves writing. If Harlequin is annoyed with an excessively long post, then he can just count it against the person when he judges the spar in the end. If someone complains about the long post, then, theoretically, that would be considered the spam post, am I wrong? If the person sparring doesn't want to read the massive post, then he should, for the most part, just be able to skip over it without worry, as the bio should not have any great impact on the spar itself, anyway, it's just a piece of writing.

Sure, it could bloom into a problem when a particularly big-headed new member decides to post long to look intimidating, and flame those who say they should not post so huge. Wouldn't one just deal with the problem of flaming, and leave the fact that the person is a long writer out of it? Naturally, one would be punished for being a bully on the boards, but why make the long writing a problem too?

Well, this is just a concern that's been bugging me that I felt like addressing. I have nothing against Harlequin or him doing his job in the Battle Arena, I just thought that as long as this is a problem, I could express my views on it here without getting in anyone's way.

[Boo]

[color=gray]Long RP posts are always nice (when they are good quality ofcourse lol).
A bio is good when its big, but it shouldnt get huge. Its better just to birefly give the characters past, instead of giving a whole story to it. Think of it as a storyline and not a story ^_^;;

But I disagree that the long post writer is at fault. (S)He just wants to give a good storyline to his character. The other complaints about it, which by the way shouldve been by PM, not in the thread.
Anyhow. You shouldnt challenge someone and then tell the person his/her Bio is too long. What is wrong with a long bio? o.O[/color]

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1][B]We're talking bio's that would be like 12 pages long on word. A Biography is a life story, but it's basically the main details. I like to write a long bio myself, but who wants to read 12 pages when they're only having a small battle? Only the main parts of the character is needed, not what they did with their dad one sunday afternoon. Seriously, it takes a lot of bugging to get me to read even 2 page bio's. There's a difference between an RPG and a Battle; a battle has no huge story-line, and it starts off with two (or more) characters fighting, that doesn't need a huge bio. An RPG however, has a plot that builds up, lots of people playing different characters, so a long bio would be good in an RPG case.

I think it can be the person who complains, and the person who writes the long bio that get's the thread closed. People have come on saying "It seems you can't write bio's either...", and the person complaining would be right in moaning at them for that. I don't like people coming on saying "You can't do this and I'm here to teach you how" , "This board has rubish Bio's in the battle section." and stuff like that. It's not how long the bio is, it's just how well you've got the IMPORTANT information down.

I also don't like people jumping on each other, and the fact everyone keeps jumping on Harlequin about this and that and how he's being mean and doing everything wrong.[/SIZE][/B]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Why complain? It won't undo anything. 12 pages is excessive, but if they want to waste their time...that is their problem.

As you said Wondershot....people don't have to read it. I consider it the complainers fault. Maybe mention that their bio is a bit too long, but don't whinge, damnit.

Whinging solves nothing. It's not like the bio killed your mother or anything, is it? Grow up and move on I say....it isn't like you have to read their bio. Ask them to cut back on it in future maybe...but if not, just leave it.

-Josh.[/size][/color]

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Verdana][size=1]The thing is, it's the Battle Arena. There is no great depth to the characters. Yes, the type of person they are defines how they fight -- they might be more passive and defensive than agressive, etc. -- but a life's history is not necessary. And that is what's been cropping up in the Battle Arena.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]The Battle Arena is designed for short, quick spars. Sparring, not RPGs. For me, even in the RPG forum, 13 pages seems a bit excessive. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]The way I see it, a bio in the Battle Arena [keeping in mind this is for sparring -- no plot development, little to no character development, just basic fighting] should be clear, and most definately [i]conscise[/i]. The spar won't last forever. 30 posts is often a set limit, but spars rarely get to that amount anyway. Why have a huge bio for a 30 post fight? The bio is just to provide the bare facts -- name, age, description, weapons [both physical and magical] -- the sort of things that the other sparrer will need to be able to write your character. And that's it. At least, that's the angle I'm coming from. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]As for those huge bios that get shut down anyway, I just think you should save it for when you enter into an RPG. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]And lately it seems to be becoming almost a competition as to who can come up with the biggest bio, rather than "Here, let's fight." The long bio posters also take it upon themselves to tell the rest of the forum how horrible they are at sparring because their posts aren't long. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1][quote][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]Actually, everyone's here is entirely to short and all but worthless. And you say people need 1/4 of what I'm giving them to fight, well thats because most the people here aren't any good.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/quote][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]Which is just ridiculous. As we've oft heard, the aim of OB is Quality, not Quantity.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]However, I will be one of the first ones to agree that those replying that the posts are too long should refrain.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]So that's my view on the situation.[/size][/font]

[G/S/B Master]

Have you read that monstrocity? It was litterally his whole childhood dammit. I had enough time to read it all so :P.

We should delete the Battle Arena and pretend it wasn't around. Why? New people aren't reading the rules and we're having godzilla vs king kong battles that ends up with godzila destroying the universe -__-.

Or we could ban everyone from the battle arena from posting, and James could authorize centain people to post in the battle arena. So this event won't happen.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well personally I look at it this way: if you want a battle between two unfamiliar characters it makes no sense to know the opponent's life story. Heck, the Joker doesn't even know Batman's life story, and vice versa. There's no reason for those other than people wanting to show their stories off to everyone. Now, a little background is fine, but overdoing it means missing the point of the "arena," if you ask me.

Now, we shouldn't punish people for writing long bios I guess, but we should advise against it because many matches just don't happen due to people like me being too lazy to learn all there is to know about the person they're gonna take on. It leads to no opponents for anyone.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=G/S/B Master]Have you read that monstrocity? It was litterally his whole childhood dammit. I had enough time to read it all so :P.

We should delete the Battle Arena and pretend it wasn't around. Why? New people aren't reading the rules and we're having godzilla vs king kong battles that ends up with godzila destroying the universe -__-.

Or we could ban everyone from the battle arena from posting, and James could authorize centain people to post in the battle arena. So this event won't happen.[/QUOTE]

Oh, for heaven's sake.... there's no need to be so melodramatic. I'd much rather read a long, coherently written bio than some of the two-sentence crap one occasionally finds lying around the Arena. I only have a problem with the arrogance which often accompanies lengthy bios.... but that kind of thing won't be remedied by acting all defensive and hostile about it.

When I see someone posting a twelve-page bio and claiming that our sparrers suck, I usually challenge him/her via PM, or at least try to explain why some OBers may be wary of sifting through so much information. Wondershot is absolutely right: people who respond to new members by playing mod--because that's what whining about an elaborate bio [i]is[/i]--should [i]not[/i] be let off lightly. No matter how annoying the newcomer's attitude may be, those who tell him not to write so much have been here longer and ought to know better.

It takes greater skill to develop your character over the course of a fight than in a pre-written bio. But if someone feels like writing elaborate descriptions of his character's mindset, clothing, etc., whatever. I don't think that mod intervention is really necessary unless said member is also an insufferable, uncompromising prig.

~Dagger~

[Semjaza]

IF some kid posts his bio as the first post in the spar... I don't even see what the issue is. If you don't want to read it, then don't. No one is forcing you to post or play along with it.

However, I'm also under the impression that The Harlqeuin has to judge the spars at the end, right? I'm sure he doesn't want to have to read a 12 page biography when all that even matters in the thread is what people actually do in the battle.

[Dagger]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']However, I'm also under the impression that The Harlqeuin has to judge the spars at the end, right? I'm sure he doesn't want to have to read a 12 page biography when all that even matters in the thread is what people actually do in the battle.[/quote]

I don't know the exact details of The Harlequin's policy, but I think he's mentioned that any completely over-the-top bios will count against the sparrer who wrote them. If something really was that long.... well, I doubt that many of us would hold it against him if he didn't read it. ^_^;

~Dagger~

[Charles]

My explanation surely won't be the definitive one in here and others have already gone on at length with valid points.

Frankly, here's how I see it: a good writer should know their audience and how to be concise. If someone is so enamored with their own writing to the extent that they lack enough self-control to keep it focused, they're not practicing good writing to begin with. They should realize that burdening the reader down with extraneous detail for the sake of sating their own ego isn't only bad writing, it's bad sparring as well. Lining a biography with all fluff and no food defeats the purpose of posting the information to begin with; it's counterproductive to expect your sparring partner to undertake the laborious task of reading pages upon pages of moot detail. Once again, it?s all about keeping the audience in mind. People don?t post in Battle Arena because they?re interested in reading novella-sized pieces of fiction--they?re there to spar.

When posting a biography, one should post what they need in order to define the foundation of the battle and leave it at that. There?s plenty of room for creativity and characterization. But, by the same token biographies should be kept reasonably direct and to the point. Why provide bucket loads of superfluous information that will have absolutely [i]no bearing[/i] on the battle itself? In that sense, [i]yes[/i] it is spam and [i]yes[/i] it is just as bad as skimpy posting because it suffers the same pitfall: it's not serving its intended purpose. It's not preparing anyone for the spar.

People itching to write stories should visit the proper forum. If they're entering an agreement to spar with someone, they should be courteous to their partner and place mutual enjoyment over flexing literary muscle.

As for members publicly expressing their disapproval of "overly ambitious" sparrers by chastising them within their threads, well, obviously they're in the wrong too. If they have a question, they should simply private message The Harlequin or report the post. They're not moderators and as such, it's not their place to correct others. That only leads to more problems.

Yes, the nifty titles aren't there just to look purty fellas.

[James]

[color=#707875]Yeah, I think most of this is just common sense, really.

A spar isn't an RPG. By definition, you'd think that an RPG would require a far more lengthy biography than a spar.

So, writing a multi-page essay about your character's background is pretty pointless. I think the people who write 'em know that most people won't read them all the way through. But if you [i]do [/i]read them, you'll find that quite often, they are poorly written.

And this really hits the fundamental point of quality and not quantity. Who cares if your bio is enormous, if it doesn't maintain a sense of clarity and quality? I've seen writers who can inject an insane amount of depth in a couple of paragraphs of backstory.

And more importantly, as has been mentioned, a character's background is also somewhat revealed during a spar or RPG -- not beforehand. There's simply no need for us to hear about how many injections the character had as a child, for example. How is this going to relate to the spar?

You'll often find that people who write these huge bios [i]do not [/i]and [i]can not [/i]relate everything in their bio to the spar at hand. A spar is a fight and it doesn't last forever -- it's pretty impossible to link everything in one's history to a single battle, unless the battle itself goes for an extremely long period of time.

So again, I'd have thought this would be pretty obvious. Writing a ridiculously long and pointless biography is just as bad as writing a single-sentence biography. Both are often equally without real relevance or substance.[/color]