Batman Discussion Thread

[Japan]

Who here loves Bataman? I am a major fan of everything Batman. I like the old live action Batman and Robin. I also like the cartoon series that came on Cartoon Network. Now, I am watching Batman Beyond as much as I can. This last Friday, I watched the movie, Batman Beyond: The Return of Joker.

Not only do I like the orginal series, and the cartoon series, I also enjoy the movies that were made. Batman Forever is my favorite one.

What do you like about Batman? What are your favorite series to watch, and what is your favorite Batman movie?

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

I am a huge fan of Batman. What do I like about him? His no-nonsense attitude, his tremendous amount of willpower, and his ability to do anything and everything better than anyone else. Also the fact that he prepares for any situation.

I've watched every episode of all the shows and read a good amount of comics. I'm a pretty big Batman fan, and something of a Superman fan as well. If you ever need any "trivia-ish" questions or answers, you know who to go to.

[Winter]

Batman: Hush was probably the greatest story ever in the series, next to Year One.

I just finished reading through the Murderer-Fugitive series, and that was excellent as well.

The new movie, starring Christian Bale, is going to definately redeem the genre in the films.

And for anyone who thinks they are a Batman buff; have you seen the independant film that was created and shown last year at a select few comic conventions? The film is ******** brilliant.

I think the live action tv show was a terrible attempt at adapting the comic. And the recent movies have really tarnished the credibility. At certain points, even the comics became terrible.

What I love about Batman, is his cold, calculating demeanor. His will for justice, at certain times, in certain comics, borderlines psychotic. Sometimes I think he's crazier than the guys he goes after.

Who rememberes when Jason Todd died? At first I thought it was really messed up, how he died, but after reading it more than once, it became hilarious to me.

And as much as I love Batman, I have to say I like Nightwing better.

What I hate about Batman Beyond is its just not what would happen in the series. Bruce said himself at one point, if there was ever going to be someone to take up the Batman persona when Bruce is too old, it would be the current Robin, Tim Drake.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[QUOTE=Winter]Batman: Hush was probably the greatest story ever in the series, next to Year One.
I just finished reading through the Murderer-Fugitive series, and that was excellent as well.[/QUOTE]

I own both of those arcs, and though the artwork in Hush is fantastic, I'd have to say that I hate Loeb as a writer. Every single one of his stories involves b.s. reasons to bring EVERY SINGLE VILLAIN HE CAN THINK OF into the story. The redeeming point of THAT was that Jim Lee got to show us his versions of nearly every villain (except Bane... .:sniffle:. ...) but other than that, I'd say Hush was silly. It certainly didn't intrigue me in the least. The weak point of Loeb's works is that they don't "keep you guessing" because he pulls the ending out of his *** every time.

Murderer-Fugitive was great, and much more suspenseful. You have to ignore the fact that there is a ridiculous lack of evidence pointing toward's Wayne's supposed guilt, and that any lawyer in the world would have gotten all charges dropped on day one, but other than that it was a great read. Much better than Hush as a story, in my opinion.

[QUOTE]And for anyone who thinks they are a Batman buff; have you seen the independant film that was created and shown last year at a select few comic conventions? The film is ******** brilliant.[/QUOTE]

If you're taking about "Batman: Dead End" I can't say it was brilliant. Joker's dialogue (and acting) was simply painful, and no true Batman buff would have had him say that. The alien/predator thing was fun, but that's all it was. It's neat to see a fan make a relatively high-budget production like that, and it was nice to see all the good reviews it got, but I can't say it was brilliant.

[QUOTE]I think the live action tv show was a terrible attempt at adapting the comic.[/QUOTE]

Live action TV show? Well that was really campy, and mostly done as a spoof. It was a comedy, not an attempt at adapting the comic. Also, the comic in the 60s was pretty darn rotten, so I can't say it was even worth adapting.

[QUOTE]
What I hate about Batman Beyond is its just not what would happen in the series. Bruce said himself at one point, if there was ever going to be someone to take up the Batman persona when Bruce is too old, it would be the current Robin, Tim Drake.[/QUOTE]

Tim Drake would be the next Batman, yeah, but that's thinking ideally. Things change, people change, and as serious as Tim takes his role as Robin, he and Bruce [i]could[/i] have a falling out as well. Honestly I think that Nightwing would take the role, though part of him wouldn't want to. But that's just if I was the writer. As for Batman Beyond, it's so far the best future projection of the Batman universe that's ever been done.

[Guest jisuseru]

[QUOTE=Japan_86]Who here loves Bataman? I am a major fan of everything Batman. I like the old live action Batman and Robin. I also like the cartoon series that came on Cartoon Network. Now, I am watching Batman Beyond as much as I can. This last Friday, I watched the movie, Batman Beyond: The Return of Joker.

Not only do I like the orginal series, and the cartoon series, I also enjoy the movies that were made. Batman Forever is my favorite one.

What do you like about Batman? What are your favorite series to watch, and what is your favorite Batman movie?[/QUOTE]

I like Batman. I love the comics and the shows. I don't really have a favorite series but of movies i like batman forever also. From the artists of the comics i like Tim Sale and an other one that i can't remember right now. :wigout: :)

[Winter]

If only people could piece portions of a conversation in reality, and respond to it individually, rather than take it on as a whole, eh?

Dead End was brilliant because of the way in that it was able to defy the norm of the films. It wasnt the comic, but it wasnt the typical theatrical release, and it didnt even try to be. *Ignoring that fact that even if it wanted to be, it couldnt have considering its budget*

I think Loeb is a good writer. I know you were generalizing in that he put every villian in it, but since you so loverly pieced apart my post, I'll get technical with you as well; where was the Penguin?

Sure he is dead, but so was Todd, and Loeb managed a way to bring him back for the moment.

It was the little things in Hush that really got to me. The way Todd was fighting. If you read Nightwing, you'd recognize that Todd was fighting just like how Nightwing fights, and when Batman made the connection, what can I say, it was just nifty.

Speaking of Loeb, I think he's doing a good job with Hulk Grey. Everyone hates the Hulk, but he manages to make it readable.

Did you read Daredevil: Yellow? Another Loeb/Sale work. And another very good recreation of the origin of Daredevil.

And what about The Long Halloween? Did you not think that was a great story? I thought it was excellent, personally. The way the ending seemed to defy the entire path of the story. I thought it was great.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Winter']Dead End was brilliant because of the way in that it was able to defy the norm of the films.[/quote]
A monkey could defy the norm of the films. Those things were so atrocious you have to TRY to emulate them to make a Batman piece like those bowsers. Anyway I see what you meant by that, and fine I'll leave that alone.

[QUOTE] I'll get technical with you as well; where was the Penguin?
Sure he is dead, but so was Todd, and Loeb managed a way to bring him back for the moment.[/QUOTE]
Don't waste my time. I was generalizing, and it was a well-founded generalization. He put a whole slew of villains into Long Halloween for no good reason, and don't even get me started on the new Batman/Superman crossover he's working on. I lost count of all the people he put in that.

[QUOTE]It was the little things in Hush that really got to me. The way Todd was fighting. If you read Nightwing, you'd recognize that Todd was fighting just like how Nightwing fights, and when Batman made the connection, what can I say, it was just nifty.[/QUOTE]
That same thing got to me, but in a "bugged me" way. If Clayface has developed the fighting technique of Dick Grayson, why doesn't he just cover himself in armor and spikes and go around kicking everyone's ***? Loeb didn't really think it through and everyone knows it. Anyway, that "similar fighting styles" thing was rescued by the talent of Jim Lee. Someone who can't do dynamic combat (like Tim Sale or a whole number of other Batman artists) would've only made matters worse.

[QUOTE]And what about The Long Halloween? Did you not think that was a great story? I thought it was excellent, personally. The way the ending seemed to defy the entire path of the story. I thought it was great.[/QUOTE]
I hate the Hulk and Daredevil as characters, so I don't read their comics. Also I despise Tim Sale. Yes, I have The Long Halloween, and the reason the ending defied the entire path of the story is because it defied the logical flow of things. It wasn't expected because it made no sense.

A good mystery writer knows how to do certain things: he can throw enough clues at you to solve the mystery, and enough red herrings to confuse you into not solving it. Loeb can only do the latter. That's why the "guess who's Hush" contest was so dumb. The only reason everyone I know even figured it was Elliot is because that would've been the uninspired thing to do. If it had BEEN Jason Todd, that would've at least been interesting.

[Heaven's Cloud]

[color=indigo]Ouch, Loeb wrote one of my favorite crossovers of all time to, the Executioners X-men story line. Granted, there was quite a bit of BS in it.

I too liked Hush, but only because the art work was so spectacular...by the way Jim Lee also did the art for the Executioner's story line.

Batman is a great complex hero at times, but at times his mag really sucks. That is the comic world for you. My favorite plot line would probably have to be No Man's Land, it was just such an odd idea, like Batman meets Escape from New York. I also was a big fan of the original animated series (Mask of the Phantasm is great) and I am lookin forward to seeing "The Batman" when I get a chance.

As far as movies go, Batman was the only decent live action Batman movie made. To be honest, it is probably the best adaptation from comic to movie that was made.[/color]

[Omar Harris]

I'm a huge Batman fan myself, mostly because of the cool toys, and the fact that he does the superhero gig without powers. I love Batman Returns, Batman the Movie, and Mask of the Phantasm. I just bought Child of Dreams (Kia Asimiya's take) and Batman Archives, vol.1 collecting his first few appearances, and the debut of Robin.

As far as the comics go, I haven't read anything in his books since Hush ended. Loeb is a hit and miss writer:

[B]Hits:[/B]

Made Riddler semi-cool again

Our World's at War

Using Darkseid as the villain of his second Superman/Batman storyarc, and hopefully reinvigorating my favorite villain

Turning Hawkman into the powerhouse we never knew he was

Hopefully bringing back the original Supergirl

[B]Misses:[/B]

Killing off possibly the best black superhero in comics today (Steel) then bringing him back and crippling him, which set him up to be replaced by a wannabe in the form of his niece.

Bringing back Krypto

Turning Doomsday into a wuss

Making Superman too powerful

Packing in as many cameos as possible into one story, just for the hell of it

Further complicating the Supergirl scenario than it actually needs to be.

I could go on and on.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

If you guys like the No Man's Land comics, read the novel version by Greg Rucka. It's much better than the comics. Same goes for the Nightfall novel by Dennis O'Neil. That's much better than the comics as well. It gives a much more detailed development of Bane as a character. Both are must-reads if you are a true Batmaniac, and recommendations if you are just a fan. I'd recommend picking them up at a Half-Price Books, because otherwise they're pretty pricey hardcovers. But they rock.

Loeb is much more of a miss than a hit writer. He's also helping out Smallville writers, which is no surprise considering how much that show blows. Kryptonite, Kryptonite, Kryptonite. It's more abundant than aluminum it appears.

Anyway, I can't say that Batman the movie is the best comic-book adaptation ever, because I think X-men and Spiderman are better (well Spiderman is not better as movie, but it's a better adaptation of the comics). But Spiderman comics are crapola, so the Spiderman movie sucked huge. X-men took liberties, so it's not as straight an adaptation, but it was so freaking good. I really like the X-men films. If Bryan Singer did Batman and Superman films I'd be ecstatic.

[satan665]

I've slowly fell into being a big Batman fan. Have you guys seen the previews for the new Batman animated series? I was crying for years for more episodes of Batman after they switched to the newer drawing style (new Scarecrow was amazing). This is going to be a lot different as a show, but I'm pretty sure a few of the old animated series folks are producing it. Two saturdays ago they played a sneak peek on the WB, saying its coming out this fall. The designs for the Joker are a lot different than before, he looks like an evil jester. I'm really excited about it, it looks dark and the animation seems great!!

Comics-wise I really like Batman black and white, and Batman/Grendel. Those are some cool stories if you can track them down. Currently I'm not too excited about Legends of the Dark knight or detective comics, and I'm sad that the run of Azzarelo, Risso is over on Batman. I think their style suits him perfectly.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well, actually at this point I'm turning my attention toward Superman comics. Jim Lee and Michael Turner are working on two of the Superman titles, and they're good pencillers. Well, Turner's Superman is actually pretty lousy, and apart from hot chicks there isn't much there. The artwork is ok, but it's some alternate universe sci-fi Superman, and I don't need that. But Jim Lee's run starts very soon, and I'm excited. I hope he gives us a Batman cameo like he gave us a Supes cameo in Hush (which was arguably... ah heck not even arguably but definitely... the best part of the Hush story). And it put to rest a lot of the Batman vs. Superman debates.

Hey, have you guys noticed that whenever the "who would win, Bats or Supes" topic comes up, those who say Superman will win are total morons? Not that they are necessarily wrong, but their reasons are always "Superman is super powerful, and Batman is just a normal guy." Stuff like that. It irritates me.

[dposse]

I LOVE batman! Have you heard of the new Batman coming to The WB? i love batman, but hasnt there been enough shows already? Also, If they make more batman cartoons like they are doing now, the makers have to really careful how they do the storys. The storys cant be out of sync with the other batman shows.

[satan665]

[QUOTE]I LOVE batman! Have you heard of the new Batman coming to The WB? i love batman, but hasnt there been enough shows already? Also, If they make more batman cartoons like they are doing now, the makers have to really careful how they do the storys. The storys cant be out of sync with the other batman shows.[/QUOTE]


I'd say they really should be out of sync with the other shows. The best stories usually come out when you stop trying to be pinned down to some old continuity. I think I remember hearing that the new show is supposed to take place in year 3 or so of Batman's career, where he would be younger than the previous Bruce Timm Batman.

Oh, and I mentioned the new show just two posts up. :)

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Hmm, year three? I'd rather they not do that, because the best Batman stories (the ones that are least restrictive on writers) in my opinion are when Batman is at his prime. When Dick Grayson is done as Robin, and Batman is over Bane and No Man's Land. I understand that writers want a Batman unhampered by sidekicks, who is trying to make himself a force in a very dark and crime-ridden city. But the truly best Batman stories have always, in one way or another, involved Dick Grayson. At least I think so. Not that I don't relish a Batman-on-his-own story, and those have all the best action scenes. In fact I'd prefer it if Batman worked alone. But there are just so many good dialogue scenes between him and Dick or between Alfred and Dick (or even between Tim and Dick) that I'm afraid an important part of the Batman universe would be missing.

[dMage]

I've only recently started reading comics, and when it comes to the DC universe, I must admit that right behind the Green Lantern(most definitely my fav hero) is Batman. His no nonsense attitude, dark disposition, and awesome detective abilities make him one of the greatest heros, and much the fact that he's human makes him all that more intense, because he's just a regular guy taking things over the edge.
[QUOTE]Hey, have you guys noticed that whenever the "who would win, Bats or Supes" topic comes up, those who say Superman will win are total morons? Not that they are necessarily wrong, but their reasons are always "Superman is super powerful, and Batman is just a normal guy." Stuff like that. It irritates me.[/QUOTE]
Haven't u read "the Dark Knight Returns" that will put anybody who thinks Supes would win in their proper place.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Ugh, [i]that[/i] book? I don't like Frank Miller, honestly. Don't get on my case about it, I am a true Batmaniac but I don't like Frank Miller. Anyway, Superman beats Batman down in it at the end if I remember right.

Personally I think that if Batman prepares for it, Superman will not be able to take him down, because Superman does always hold back. If it was a cage match, Batman would find a way out of the cage, and that's all I'm going to say on the subject.

Also, how many of you people have read Batman: Absolution? I personally think it's a great book. But if you haven't read there's no way my reasons will make sense to you.

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Ah, Batman, my favorite hero from a comic universe where I don't like most of the heroes. I can't say I've read many of his comics, (Can't afford him [i]and[/i] Spider-Man), but I'm an avid follower of his various cartoon programs.

The thing I've always liked about Batman is that there's an aura of insanity around him, at least in the cartoons. I think he's mildly schitzophrenic. In one episode of "Batman: Beyond:, (one kick-arse show), Shriek was trying to conivnce Bruce that he was insane, by beaming a voice into his head. The reason Bruce held it together, as he later told Terry, was that the voice kept calling him "Bruce", and, in his mind, that's not what he calls himself. ^__^

I have absolutly no interest in reading "Hush", because I strongly dislike Liefeld. Ugh.

Now, here's a question: is there currently a Batmn comic that chronicals his adventures, yet doesn't crss over to the other titles? I'd like to read up on 'em, but I simply can't afford to buy all these titles.[/color][/size][/font]

[Japan]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]
The thing I've always liked about Batman is that there's an aura of insanity around him, at least in the cartoons. I think he's mildly schitzophrenic. In one episode of "Batman: Beyond:, (one kick-arse show), Shriek was trying to conivnce Bruce that he was insane, by beaming a voice into his head. The reason Bruce held it together, as he later told Terry, was that the voice kept calling him "Bruce", and, in his mind, that's not what he calls himself. ^__^[/QUOTE]

I remember that epsode. It is really awesome. I like all Batman cartoons. Batman Beyond is what I like to watch mostly now. I don't watch too much tv, so I try and watch it when I can.

[QUOTE]
Now, here's a question: is there currently a Batmn comic that chronicals his adventures, yet doesn't crss over to the other titles? I'd like to read up on 'em, but I simply can't afford to buy all these titles.[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

I wouldn't really know. Just like you, I just mostly follow the cartoon series that air on Cartoon Network. I spend most of the money I get on anime and manga anyhow to afford Batman comics.

[satan665]

[QUOTE]Now, here's a question: is there currently a Batmn comic that chronicals his adventures, yet doesn't crss over to the other titles? I'd like to read up on 'em, but I simply can't afford to buy all these titles.[/QUOTE]


The classic Batman comic doesn't really cross over into other titles, Detective follows the same continuity, but they pretty much stand alone. When they did Bruce Wayne: Murderer there was a zillion crossovers but not really since then. Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight is completely stand alone. I like LOTDK, but honestly the older comics are better. The first 30 or so issues were really cool, I got them really cheap because nobody really wants them.

Pretty much every Batman/Superman battle I've seen ended up being in favor of Bats. The whole kryptonite weakness is hard to get past. I'd guess that if Batman had no green rocks, that he'd be lucky to escape. If that were the case though he'd probably not confront Superman anyway.

[QUOTE]But there are just so many good dialogue scenes between him and Dick or between Alfred and Dick (or even between Tim and Dick) that I'm afraid an important part of the Batman universe would be missing.[/QUOTE]

I agree here a little, but for the cartoon they might just do it similar to how the old animated series did and introduce Robin later. (I think they had to in the old show because Fox pressured them to appeal more to young'uns.) I wonder if they are going to do origin episodes for all of the classic villians or just have them come in assuming we know them. I'm not sure which I think is better.

[IMG]http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/images/0402/batcrouch.jpg[/IMG]

[Omar Harris]

Bats always takes Superman down, because Superman is and always will be a big, blue boyscout. Batman, as he has stated time and time again, is not. He will not hold back, and he almost always comes prepared. Logically, Superman would rip Batman apart in the span of Batman's next two heartbeats, and be done with it, but he's not that type of guy. He knows his powers could kill instantly, and holds back, because he doesn't like to kill, always giving Batman an upperhand.

I've read much of The Dark Knight Returns, but whatever you do, never, EVER read The Dark Knight Strikes Back. While I am a big Batman fan, I stopped reading the comics during the grim and gritty era in the 90s (I prefer classic superheroes, thank you very much), but I did love the cartoon, and Batman Beyond. The only gripe I have is with the writers being unable to make up their minds as to whether Dick and Bruce should be friends or rivals in the cartoon.

[Manic Webb]

Bruce Timm is a genius. I think we can at least partially agree with that. He has done the best on-screen adaptation of Batman I've ever seen. His designs for [i]Batman: The Animated Series[/i] were great, although he was a little limited by the Batman movies when he designed Catwoman and Penguin and other characters. Luckily, he remedied that in [i]The New Batman Adventures[/i] (aka Gotham Knights).

[i]Beyond[/i] was a good series and an interesting look into the future. My only problem with it was that its continuity with the greater DC Animated Universe doesn't leave much room for Tim Drake or Babs-as-Oracle to appear in future episodes of Justice League Unlimited or whatever new series they decide to come up with.

The new [i]The Batman[/i] will take place outside of the normal animated universe, so that'll leave them with a lot of room to be creative. I'm a little too used to Timm's artwork, so it'll take a while to get used to the designs used in this series... much like how I got used to Murakami's new Robin design for TT.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Yep. If it weren't for Bruce Timm's cartoons, I wouldn't have been as big a fan of Batman or Superman. Both shows were killer, and by far the best versions of the characters you'd find anywhere.

On a side note, I liked the Batman: TAS version of Catwoman more than the TNBA version.

I'm really intrigued by this new Batman cartoon people are talking about. I haven't really looked into it yet, but I plan to. Though I'm almost sure it won't live up to the greatness that was The Animated Series, particularly (in my opinion) "The Adventures of Batman and Robin," which had some sweet episodes.

[Doukeshi]

I really, honestly can't stand the artwork in LOTDK, and I don't think I can say why, I just don't think that batman is portrayed very well in it. The more recent ones particularly, I bought them but are now trying to get rid of them if anyone is interested ^_~. As you can see by my banner and avi I am really into Hush at the moment, Jim Lee is a marvelous artist and if anyone has seen any of his work on the x-men series you can defenitly see an improvement when transfered into the DC universe.

When you were previously talking about Robin or Nightwing taking over the mantle of the Bat I don't think its something that Nightwing couldn't do, I mean he's done it once already when Batman left Gotham for a while, I forget exactly when. He may do that just so he can move back to Gotham to be closer to Babs *nudge nudge wink wink* Though with the whole blockbuster fiasco at the moment its difficult to say.

On the subject of the movie, I was wondering what people thought of Christian Bale being cast as Batman. Is he really how people envisage Bruce Wayne? And on another point I am really happy about Ra's being given a chance at moviedom. He is such a brilliant arch enemy, away from the previous nemesis of joker (between you and me I think joker's past his prime a bit)

[Omar Harris]

I was hoping for the Scarecrow as the next movie villain, but if anyone is needed to clean up the bile that is "Batman and Robin" its Ra's Al Ghul. I think it may be interesting to see Michael Cain as Alfred.