What's lurking in the lake

[Roxie Faye]

[COLOR=#9933ff]Does anyone believe in in things like Nessie the LochNess Monster, or the Mokle Membe, the Yeti, or anything like that? I was curious to see how many people believe in cryptozoology, because it's kind of cool. =) And of course, YES I believe in that stuff. Probably because I'm gullible.



Major P.S.:*cackles* IIIIIIIIII'M BACK!!! YOU CAN NEVERRRRRRR GET RID OF ME MUWAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!! *runs around in circles, proclaiming "DIGIMON FOREVER" and "KEN'S MINE!"*[/COLOR]

[StarShine]

I believe to a certain extent. Something is obviously behind the stories, but I'm not sure I believe forest ranger Jack talkin' about how he had Big Foot walkin' through his national park. *shrug*

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well, I am pretty sure that [i]something[/i] is down in that lake, but whether it's a plesiosaur or something of that sort I can't say. All the "evidence" has so far been pretty vague, but I'd be stubborn to say there's nothing at all to substantiate the numerous claims out there that something is in Loch Ness.

Bigfoot... that one I don't really think about. It's too easy to fake something like that using almost no technology at all. Also it's not as plausible as the Loch Ness "monster." So I'd say I don't believe in a yeti. But I can't say that I believe nothing like a yeti exists. There is a difference.

But really, our world is so full of strange and as-of-yet unexplainable things, that a good deal of claims are not out of the question. UFOs... well... that's a whole other topic. And there's a LOT to say on it.

[Semjaza]

If I believe that, I might as well believe in the Tooth Fairy and Godzilla.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']If I believe that, I might as well believe in the Tooth Fairy and Godzilla.[/quote]

Well, that's being a bit dismissive. There's NO evidence, questionable or not, to even suggest a Tooth Fairy or Godzilla. At least give us some explanation for your stance. Otherwise it just sounds really arrogant.

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Do I sense a debate over whether or not Bigfoot exists coming on?

*wince*

I don't believe that there is an ape-man in the woods or a dinosaur in the lake.

Perhaps there is some sort of creature that has been sited within Loch Ness specifically, but I would imagine it's just some sort of rare fish. And that there are more than one, obviously...

That puddle's pretty deep, after all... [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Hah. You can't debate the existence of something like bigfoot if different weight is given to the "evidence" out there by the debating parties. Likewise for the Loch Ness monster.

You are right in saying it's most likely a rare fish. Whatever it is, it's gotta be pretty darn rare, if it's anything at all. All I'm saying is it's more likely [i]something[/i] than nothing, but I can't say what that something is. It could be a really fat guy who likes to go diving in the lake, for all I know. But I have seen numerous programs on all this cryptobiology stuff, and to say that there's nothing at all beyond what we know anywhere in the world is, well, silly. I'm not gullible, but I try to keep an open mind.

[Semjaza]

There's obviously a massive difference between thinking it's some sort of fish and an actual sea monster, like many people who are into it want to believe. If you want to think there's something there, that's fine. An actual dinosaur-like creature that the people involved want you to think is there though? No.

I mean, most of the somewhat believable evidence out there has been proven to be false with the Loch Ness Monster. That leaves us with stories and even worse photographs than the fake ones. There's certainly not enough out there for me to even remotely consider believing the old wives tales about some monster in a lake. So to me, the whole thing is ridiculous and I see no reason to keep an open mind on the subject.

People were fooled for decades by what was considered the foremost photograph proving the monsters existance until the woman who took it admitted it was a fake. What more do people need? lol

I find Bigfoot even more ridiculous. Here we have a creature, living in inhabited woodland areas that no one has ever managed to get decent picture of. No one has ever found remains or skeletons of the thing. The only evidence is really horrible photos that are obviously men in a suit and a foot cast. If I believe the fake looking photos of the thing, that makes the foot cast fake because the creatures in the photos have never had feet that large. If I believe the foot cast, that makes the pictures false. Which one is it?

That's why I make the comparison to things that obviously don't exist. Believing there are species we don't know about is one thing, because there are tons of species of just ants that no one has studied. Who knows what other things there are out there.

But to believe that a sea monster in a lake (maybe if it was super deep in the ocean, I wouldn't find it so strange) and a giant human-like ape exists seems ludicrous to me. No amount of "I want to believe!" nonsense will change my mind about it lol.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Personally I don't think a yeti creature exists either, in part for the same reasons as you. But I'm a bit more open on the underwater stuff (not necessarily having to do with Loch Ness), for a number (that number being 3) of reasons:

1. There are "sea monsters" out there, whether their common names are great white shark or giant squid. Now, I don't think one of those is in Loch Ness, and in the end it may end up being a complete hoax fueled by speculation and runaway imaginations.

2. A good number of large sea creatures haven't even been observed live. For instance, I don't think there is much (or even any) decent footage of the megamouth shark. The giant squid is yet to be observed in the wild as well, because it also swims at depths of over 1000 feet. And there are detailed accounts (and even flesh samples, which I hope are real because otherwise that would be far less cool) of a "giant" octopus from maybe the 1930s (I'm unsure about the date), which was way larger than any octopus species we have under record.

3. Much of the oceans and lakes of our planet is completely unexplored. There are such bizarre underwater formations out there that I've seen I was nearly creeped-out. There are ecosystems completely different from those on the surface. In many ways, the oceans are as alien to us as outer space, and sometimes likewise nigh-inaccessible. I don't know what we've left to discover, but I'm not going to put arbitrary limits on it.

Of course this doesn't mean there's anything in Loch Ness. And I suppose Loch Ness has been more investigated than many other bodies of water, so if anything large is left to be discovered, it's more likely to be somewhere else than in Loch Ness. But until I see an even more thorough and legitimate investigation which finds nothing, I'm going to hold off final judgement.

[shaharazod]

I belive anything is possible in life, it doesnt matter what it is to me, like to fly w/no wrings or something like that, i truly think that can happen.
I belive in all things, so yes i do belive there are things unknown down there!

[Fall]

I believe in it, but not too seriously. I'd like to believe in the Loch Ness Monster. Though to me, all the others are a bit far-fetched. The Loch Ness Monster can have an explanation put behind it that is more believable to me, than any other explanation put behind all the other "monsters". That "dinosaur" explanation... you know? I can find it so easy to believe that, it's not funny.

[Justin]

Um...Loch Ness has been search fr too much in recent years for me to believe that something yet unknown exists in there.

I'd be more apt to believe in some unknown ape creatures roaming around, but in fact, I don't.

If any great unknown creatures still exists in the world, I think yuou'd find them out in the ocean.

-Justin

[Ryan]

[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2]Do I believe in a Yeti, Sasquatch, Nessi? No.[/size][/font][/right]
[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2]Do I believe that there is something in Loch Ness? Yes[/size][/font][/right]
[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2][/size][/font] [/right]
[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2]I believe that there are animal species that have not been discovered. There has to be many marine species living in the extreme deep of the ocean, like the Giant Squid, which has been found only dead and not alive.[/size][/font][/right]
[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2][/size][/font] [/right]
[right][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=2]-Ryan[/size][/font][/right]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I think I worded my position wrong. I meant to say that I don't believe in a "sea monster" but I think something's down there, whether it's a giant squid or some prehistoric dinosaur.

I mean, who's to say that every single one of them was wiped out? There could have been a group of a few straglers. Just take the cealocanth (sp?) for example. Scientists thought it was long gone after they found masses of them off the waters of madagascar. Besides, a lot of our planet is really unexplored, you know?[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Nessie is probably just a big Australian salt water crocodile who got lost.

Them crocs can get real big, I tell you!

I think that there could be some truth to any of these things. Good Ol' Rupert and Marjory commenting on the giant Sphinx that ate their apple pie last night seems far-fetched [Rupert does have a pot-belly], but really...there is a lot of undocumented stuff out there.

Who knows? I don't. You don't.[/size][/color]

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]There is already evidence of prehistoric-like creatures on the planet.

However, I'd be much more likely to believe in something not of our physical plane. Call me crazy, but I know for a fact that there is soemthing else out there, something that would drive our frail human minds insane.

I think Einstein postulated it best when he proved there was no such thing as time. Creatures, beings, aliens, whatever -- they all exist and are near us at all times. Time is simply a human invention created to make order out of a "sequence" of events (even though there is no real sequence).

These things, these "monsters" and "creatures" are always with us.

In fact, I'm tired. I think I shall curl up next to Nessie herself. She actually is quite warm.

So, her scales are pretty rough and not all that comforting. But my Incubus will take care of her if she starts to annoy me. [/color]

[IceWolfEyes]

There was a program on TLC or the Discovery channel a while back. It was about the Loch Ness monster. A group of scientists went to Loch Ness with sonar and submarines to determine if Nessy was there. They found that she wasn't. They also found that there isn't enough fish populating the Loch for a creature the size of Nessy to live on. There have been theories that there is an underwater channel connecting the Loch to the ocean, but no one has uncovered it yet. Besides this research, I find it highly unlikely that a dinosaur survived several million years.

As for Bigfoot/Yeti, until someone shoots one of them and brings the flea-ridden carcass into the limelight, I won't believe they exist. It is likely that an overzealous scientist started the rumor so his theory of evolution would be accepted.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='IceWolfEyes]It is likely that an overzealous scientist started the [Yeti'] rumor so his theory of evolution would be accepted.[/quote]

It's highly unlikely, because the "yeti rumor" is probably a bit older than Darwin's publishings, let alone missing link discussions. Not too much older, but it is. Anyway, no yeti would fill in the gaps in the various theories of evolution, because that's not where the gaps are, nor were, honestly. If a scientist can fit the yeti into evolutionary theory at this point, it would be on some strange offshoot of human evolution, but not anywhere in the middle. I think that has always been the case. Sorry for going off on a tangent, though.

Anyway, I do remember that TV program you're talking about now, and it was pretty convincing. So I guess it's safe to assume there's no large sea creature in the lake.

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]Here is the theory of Nessie (just so you know, I was kidding before):

A few hundred of years ago, the Loch Ness had an inlet to the ocean. Sea creatures (now known as the Loch Ness monsters) found their way inland via these inlets. But when the water subsided and the inlets dried, they were trapped.

There are many caves that flow deeply underground, with cold temperatures, ideal for Nessie, especially when it comes to laying eggs. These cave are so deep, with so many tunnels, that there is no way to determine whether or not something lives there. However, if one can explore deep enough, there are several tunnels that lead to the ocean. Unfortunately, the water pressure is too great for any human invention to withstand at this point.

So that's the story.

The Scottish and English have tried to prove and disprove the evidence of Nessie. In the 1800's, a massive, but only slightly decayed, corpse of a giant dinosaur-like creature was uncovered in the depths of the ocean. The rate of decay proved that this creature could have ony been underwater for around one hundred years of time.

I can't explain this, other than that there must be leviathons (sea beasts) that we don't know about yet.

This makes perfect sense. Our planet is only 1/4 land, and 3/4 water. Our technology is too primitive to explore the depths of the ocean. It is much more likely that intelligent (or unheard of) life exists in the oceans, rather than on land.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE=IceWolfEyes]
As for Bigfoot/Yeti, until someone shoots one of them and brings the flea-ridden carcass into the limelight, I won't believe they exist. It is likely that an overzealous scientist started the rumor so his theory of evolution would be accepted.

[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]It's interesting that people won't believe in Bigfoot/Yeti until they see hard evidence, yet they'll believe all sorts of other things with absolutely [i]no [/i]evidence. I find that interesting.

Moreover, Bigfoot/Yeti won't be evidence of evolution -- the expansive, well-documented fossil and geological record is evidence enough.

In regard to the overall idea about Loch Ness...I think that it's possible that this story started with something (either legitimate or not) that was blown out of proportion over the years.

When you consider the amount of research and investigation that has been involved with the Loch Ness itself -- and without a shred of evidence resulting -- you must realize that this is probably a false story.

Afterall, we aren't talking about the hidden depths of the ocean here (which would be another story). We're talking about a body of water that, although large, is not totally beyond human research/observation.

Of course, there are potentially millions of species that we aren't yet aware of. If you've ever seen a giant squid...you'll know that these things look like they come from another world. They are truly "sea monsters", but of course, we don't encounter them regularly for obvious reasons.

I remember hearing about an underwater volcano north east of Australia, where scientists discovered dozens of entirely new species recently (within the last couple of months). Some of these species are [i]only[/i] found in this one volcano. And they are all truly amazing. Some of them really do look like alien lifeforms or something.

So, I think we must be open to the idea that there are creatures out there that we haven't discovered.

But by the same token, the Loch Ness thing should just die already. There has been so much research and so much poking and prodding, with nothing to show for it. And now it's become a huge commercial thing. It's getting beyond ridiculous.[/color]

[Lady Macaiodh]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]
Of course, there are potentially millions of species that we aren't yet aware of. If you've ever seen a giant squid...you'll know that these things look like they come from another world. They are truly "sea monsters", but of course, we don't encounter them regularly for obvious reasons.

I remember hearing about an underwater volcano north east of Australia, where scientists discovered dozens of entirely new species recently (within the last couple of months). Some of these species are [i]only[/i] found in this one volcano. And they are all truly amazing. Some of them really do look like alien lifeforms or something.

[/color][/QUOTE]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]Hold on now! Finally someone understands.

Sometimes I wonder why the government wastes so much time exploring space. The real aliens are right under our noses, on the ocean floor. It blows my mind to think that the majority of species exist underwater. These creatures cannot be scientifically studied because our technology is limited.

Here I go, about to go off subject again...

Obviously, the pressure underwater in much greater than it is is open air. A few animals have been collected, but they have to be contained in a pressurized chamber to keep their bodies from exploding. If a person, unprepared, were to try to swim into the oceans depths, they would die, and painfully. There is no question.

There are so many species that have not yet been explored, or even discovered. There is life out there, things that we can't even fathom.

So, I doubt that Nessie exists. The loch is too small to conceal such a creature, unless it has a really good hiding place.

But I can't forget that corpse. It was pretty ****** up.

Here's a website to check out. These are obviously not doctored prints.
[/COLOR]

[URL=http://www.gennet.org/facts/nessie.html]Pic of nessie.[/URL]

[Semjaza]

I think many people in this thread already understood the fact that there are most likely thousands of species of creatures in the oceans and around the globe that haven't been discovered. I and others already made reference to oceans, so I'm not sure how there's "finally" someone who gets it lol.

There are depths of the ocean that people have never even been to and thinks already mentioned, plus some I've seen discovered only recently make it obvious that things that could be considered "monsters" already exist down there. I mean, people thought the coelcanth was exctinct for many, many years... and then some fisherman caught one only recently. Who knows what's down there.

If you want to get into that, there are hundreds of species of ants that apparently can never been fully discovered thanks to the destruction of the rainforests they inhabit. Obviously there are things we simply don't know about... monstrously huge or miniscule.

Doesn't make Loch Ness any more believeable to me, though. Like was mentioned, it's a freaking lake that has been observed and researched to the point that I can't see anything like Nessie even existing in it.

[Sara]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']If I believe that, I might as well believe in the Tooth Fairy and Godzilla.[/quote][size=1]You don't believe in the Tooth Fairy and Godzilla?[/size]

[Bio]

[color=Sienna][font=Tahoma]Yea... I guess the Loch Ness has been searched far too often for anything there to be undiscovered. Unless you want to get into some government conspiracy thing...

Don't.

As for Big Foot- same thing.

The creature that makes me laugh hardest is the Jackalope. I've seen the photographs, and the rabbit thing is always a lighter color and out of proportion. It's hilarious. There's even some paranoid guy who thinks that there's some government cover-up. Why would the government have any interest in hiding a horned rabbit from the public...?

I agree, if there are any more bizzare spiecies worth conspiracy theorists time, they'd be in the ocean. Then again, the okapi was recently discovered, so I could be wrong.
[/font][/color]

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]I agree that there must be many strange creatures in the ocean, but I'm sure there's many more on the surface of the earth as well. I read that there are millions of animals in the rainforest alone that we will never know about, because much of it is so large and expansive.

And about cryptozolocigal creatures? I'll keep believing in them until I get some proof they're not there. (What did I tell you, I'm gullible.)[/color]