Gaming Halo 2

[Brasil]

[quote name='Sol-Blade']Well, I'm not going to lie to you, your point is valid and I am at loss of words right now! You win...lol[/quote]^_^

[quote]But seriously, the only situation I can figure them losing ammo when they aren't firing at you, would be if they were firing at other Marines (And there are Marines in almost every Master Chief mission) and after they died, they also run up to the corpse and blast it a couple times. But all in all, they could not even be running out of ammo at all. They might just be switching over to their sword for the hell of it.[/quote]But if on Legendary, the Elites can kill MC that quickly, and MC is the main character, the cybernetically-enhanced Incredible Hulk, the larger-than-life superhero of Halo...wouldn't that entail the Marines requiring less of a push to become very much dead? If MC can get killed that easily in Legendary, are the Marines (secondary characters, keep in mind) really going to be as tough, with that enhanced enemy damage going on?

Seems to me they're going to fall even faster, with less ammo expended, which means more ammo to waste by firing at us, as we're hiding, waiting for our shields to recharge.

Do the Marines have shields, by the way?

Also, if the computer AI was as good as people are saying, why would the Elites be pulling out an Energy Sword just for the hell of it, especially if there is still ranged combat going on? In ranged combat, if you still have a ranged weapon, you use it. It's like you don't go into a gunfight with a knife.

Really, if they're whipping out their Energy Swords at that point, there are only two possibilities:

1) They ran out of ammo, which puts them at a serious Ranged combat disadvantage.
2) They're using a Melee weapon in Ranged combat, which puts them at a serious Ranged combat disadvantage.

[quote]Then again, I once picked up the Plasma Rifle he threw and it had a charge of 2. Who knows? Maybe when the AI is firing, their weapons deplete at a much faster rate than normal, even if they fire the same amount of shots as you do. If all Elites spawn with their Plasma weapons at 100 charge, then how come after only firing a few shots their weapons suddenly have charges of around 75-80? I think that could be a possiblity, but only if the whole Spawn with Full Charge rule really exists![/quote]Seems like the question you're raising here is putting a serious hole in the solidity of Halo 2's design. There are some rather peculiar inconsistencies with the ammo usage, aren't there? Why would there be a faster weapon depletion rate for the AI? It just doesn't make any sense to put something like that in there.

Why would Elite warriors, who are incredibly well-trained to use Covenant weaponry, keep in mind, be expending [i]more[/i] ammo than MC when they fire? If they're trained with their own brand of weaponry, it seems to me that it'd make more sense for the Elite to be able to [i]conserve[/i] ammo with each shot. Don't you agree?

[QUOTE]Yes, the game was overhyped. I by far never said it was going to be revolutionary, or genre-changing in the least. But, it is a good game. Little flaws, yes.

But as I argured with Fable, "Love the game for what it is, not what it is hyped up to be..."[/QUOTE]I actually didn't buy into the hype at all, and I wasn't impressed at all by the original Halo, so I was coming into Halo 2 pretty much even. I do appreciate the game for what it is (solid FPS), but "what it is" is also a [i]weird[/i] and sometimes questionable game design in parts.

[quote]Heh, the more and more I read my posts I am beginning to look like a Halo fanboy...I'm not. I just really enjoy the game, most notably the story! Take it seriously, there is alot more there than meets the eye! :D [/QUOTE]There are some neat parallels there, but considering that they needed the EU novels and all to tell the entire story, I think that's a sign that there's just way too much backstory for a game. They wrote out a screenplay of sorts for the games, and described it as a feature-length film (which, length-wise, it was...90-120 minutes). But I think what most fail to realize is it doesn't matter how much of a backstory you have, because you're not going to be able to show it.

I think the precise illustration of this is during the Making Of Halo 2 on the DVD. When they were talking about the various voice actors recording lines and such, we had two producers talking. I forget their names, but one was the head writer or something, and the other was a co-producer, or something to that effect.

Well, they wanted the actress to say her line faster, and when she asked if there was any particular way they wanted, or something like that, the writer started talking about the history of the Covenant, and it sounds like he went on for a good couple of minutes.

After he was finished, the actress said, "So, you just want me to say it faster?"

The co-producer replied, "Yes, yes--just say it faster."

I think that's precisely what's going on, even in the games themselves. The backstory is just so huge, so specifically broad, that they're simply not going to be able to convey the story effectively in such a short space, and I think they bit off more than they could chew.

This actually relates to the Alien/Aliens comparison I've been reading about, too.

While it sounds good to relate the two franchises, it doesn't work for the plain and simple reason that Ridley Scott knew what he had to work with in Alien, and did it. There was nothing extraneous in there; he had what he had, he knew that, and he did it.

Halo, on the other hand, the producers and creative talent behind the project, while damn good at what they do, are doing the opposite of what Ridley Scott was doing in Alien. They're trying to make something more than what they really have, and I think it shows.

When the writer was going on and on about the Covenant, when all the actress needed was to be told to say it faster, there's an imbalance there between what they want to do and what they need.

So, I think there's a fairly clear fundamental difference between the two franchises.

EDIT: You had posted before I did, Sciros, so to answer your question, I'm just not seeing any gameplay/strategies in Halo/Halo 2 that I haven't seen before.

[50 cent]

Siren I know you have heard this before but the reason why you can't seen any gameplay or strategies in halo/halo 2 at all is because YOU ARE NOT LOOKING HARD ENOUGH! Is it that hard. If you look at it all good games that will be played for months or more have to have a backstory or else you will not get anything that is going on. It will just seem like oh lets save the whole universe kind of thing. You need to look deeper and you will find that gameplay. Also I do admit there is some parts in the game where you can totally predict the AI's move but in legendary you can't. I mean you will see the enemy's and when your hiding they move to different areas so you don't know where they are so they will draw you out into the open to get killed. Also co-op in legendary isn't easy at all either because you need to know where your ally is at at all times or you can't defend him when he needs it because if he dies then you need to start back at the last checkpoint as if you were playing single player. I will also admit there is flaws in the AI but hey this AI is not as predictable as the first because you would think when you first faught the hunters[spoiler]{you could just get behing them and blast the crap out of them until they just throw there arms backwards and get you which is way smart if they know your close to them}[/spoiler]. Also I don't know where your getting the whole elites whipping out a energy sword when there not close enough because when I have played they only have whipped them out when I charge them and I blastin them and I go to him them then they pull it out and murder my a**. So if anything I don't know why you are complaining so much because your the only one here trying to prove this point when it is not working at all. Well thats all for me 50 out

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Siren']But if on Legendary, the Elites can kill MC that quickly, and MC is the main character, the cybernetically-enhanced Incredible Hulk, the larger-than-life superhero of Halo...wouldn't that entail the Marines requiring less of a push to become very much dead? If MC can get killed that easily in Legendary, are the Marines (secondary characters, keep in mind) really going to be as tough, with that enhanced enemy damage going on?[/quote]
Those marines are in serious ****, to be honest with you. I wish you could tell them to stay back and hide like wimps, because they like to go in guns blazing, and next thing you know you find their bodies in a dark corner somewhere. I don't think they have shields. I've shot my share of marines, and I've never noticed any shield flash as a result of gunfire.

[QUOTE]Also, if the computer AI was as good as people are saying, why would the Elites be pulling out an Energy Sword just for the hell of it, especially if there is still ranged combat going on? In ranged combat, if you still have a ranged weapon, you use it. It's like you don't go into a gunfight with a knife.[/QUOTE]
This "knife" is deadlier than any gun out there, heh. Believe me, as soon as an elite decides it's time to whip out the ole' plasma sword, you're in some serious **** because those things kill instantly. A gun shot your shield can handle. A slash from the plasma sword, not so much. Elites might be in a *ranged* combat disadvantage if they are using a sword, but they can close the distance pretty quick and very soon the combat is not as ranged as you'd like it to be. Honestly, have you never fought a sword-wielding elite? They're the riskiest mofos to take on. On the higher difficulties, where they won't die from non-stop gunfire while running at you in a rage, they are very likely to kill you if you aren't good at avoiding them.

[QUOTE]Why would Elite warriors, who are incredibly well-trained to use Covenant weaponry, keep in mind, be expending [i]more[/i] ammo than MC when they fire? If they're trained with their own brand of weaponry, it seems to me that it'd make more sense for the Elite to be able to [i]conserve[/i] ammo with each shot. Don't you agree?[/QUOTE]
I've not seen an Elite actually run out of firepower, honestly. If you can run an Elite out of ammo, that means you did a heck of a job drawing its fire and not getting hit. More power to ya, heh.

[QUOTE]There are some neat parallels there, but considering that they needed the EU novels and all to tell the entire story, I think that's a sign that there's just way too much backstory for a game. They wrote out a screenplay of sorts for the games, and described it as a feature-length film (which, length-wise, it was...90-120 minutes). But I think what most fail to realize is it doesn't matter how much of a backstory you have, because you're not going to be able to show it.[/QUOTE]
I agree that the backstory is a bit too detailed considering how much crappier the Halo 2 story is without it and how lousy a job the game does of communicating that backstory. The plot is good, it's just told like crap. And yeah, the Making Of Halo 2 on that special disk blew. Really, I'd have been happier with a blank DVD-R+ than that "special bonus disk" garbage they threw in.

[QUOTE]You had posted before I did, Sciros, so to answer your question, I'm just not seeing any gameplay/strategies in Halo/Halo 2 that I haven't seen before.[/QUOTE]
Care to mention the FPSs that you've seen enemies do what elites in Halo 2 on Legendary do? I am curious, because then those FPSs didn't get some credit they deserve.

[Brasil]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Those marines are in serious ****, to be honest with you. I wish you could tell them to stay back and hide like wimps, because they like to go in guns blazing, and next thing you know you find their bodies in a dark corner somewhere. I don't think they have shields. I've shot my share of marines, and I've never noticed any shield flash as a result of gunfire.[/quote]So they're not very durable then, meaning, it doesn't take too many shots from a Plasma Rifle, and anytime the Marines are being used for Elite target practice, that means more ammo will be used for the delightful purpose of either killing MC, or killing the wall he's hiding behind, as it were.

[QUOTE]This "knife" is deadlier than any gun out there, heh. Believe me, as soon as an elite decides it's time to whip out the ole' plasma sword, you're in some serious **** because those things kill instantly. A gun shot your shield can handle. A slash from the plasma sword, not so much. Elites might be in a *ranged* combat disadvantage if they are using a sword, but they can close the distance pretty quick and very soon the combat is not as ranged as you'd like it to be. Honestly, have you never fought a sword-wielding elite? They're the riskiest mofos to take on. On the higher difficulties, where they won't die from non-stop gunfire while running at you in a rage, they are very likely to kill you if you aren't good at avoiding them.[/QUOTE]Oh, I don't doubt the "knife" at all. I'm fully aware of its destructive capabilities. I've sliced up my brother a few times with it in Multi, and I am well aware of just how dangerous sword-wielding Elites are. With that said, however, the point remains that using a sword in a ranged combat situation is a poor strategic decision, regardless of the ability to get in close after whipping it out.

I only go Melee when I'm in close combat, or when I run out of ammo. I'm not about to pull out a blade at 50 yards out, or even 10 feet out, because if there's gunfire involved, a blade will not be effective until I get in close. When I get in close, however, the blade starts cutting.

But as it stands now, if the Elites can do this kind of damage on Legendary by using the Plasma Rifles and that's it, it makes no sense whatsoever to switch to a Melee weapon in the middle of a firefight and begin to close the gap under heavy fire.

And when they're rushing at you, the avoiding you're doing is run n gun, lol.

[QUOTE]I've not seen an Elite actually run out of firepower, honestly. If you can run an Elite out of ammo, that means you did a heck of a job drawing its fire and not getting hit. More power to ya, heh.[/QUOTE]Remember what you said earlier. Humans can outwit the computer. It's really not that hard, hehe. I just look for patterns, really, and...the enemy movement is pretty predictable, honestly. And plus, you see how quickly you can drain a Plasma Rifle; I don't see why it's any different for Covenant forces.

[QUOTE]I agree that the backstory is a bit too detailed considering how much crappier the Halo 2 story is without it and how lousy a job the game does of communicating that backstory. The plot is good, it's just told like crap. And yeah, the Making Of Halo 2 on that special disk blew. Really, I'd have been happier with a blank DVD-R+ than that "special bonus disk" garbage they threw in.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's like screenwriting and "show don't tell." You can write something like, "His inner monologue is screaming," but you aren't going to be able to turn to the audience and say, "This is what this character is thinking right now." I think that's definitely one of the pitfalls that Halo plummeted into, among other things. The story that they wanted to tell wasn't concise or focused in the least, and they wanted to squeeze a whole lot into a tiny, itty, bitty space.

And that's actually why I'm interested in the news that Ridley Scott might helm a Halo movie, because I'm looking for him to bring that focused sensibility to it.

[quote]Care to mention the FPSs that you've seen enemies do what elites in Halo 2 on Legendary do? I am curious, because then those FPSs didn't get some credit they deserve.[/QUOTE]Perfect Dark's DarkSim, and believe it or not, on the hardest difficulty, the enemies in XIII. Chronicles of Riddick, too, and these are just the "no-name" FPS (except for PD, of course).

There's some impressive stuff going on in those games, and people just became obsessed with Halo/Halo 2, thinking what they were seeing was unrealized before, but it's been very much realized before, just commercially ignored.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Siren']Oh, I don't doubt the "knife" at all. I'm fully aware of its destructive capabilities. I've sliced up my brother a few times with it in Multi, and I am well aware of just how dangerous sword-wielding Elites are. With that said, however, the point remains that using a sword in a ranged combat situation is a poor strategic decision, regardless of the ability to get in close after whipping it out.[/quote]
Not if it works, heh. Even in multi, if I have a sword I'll most likely use it. It's effective as soon as you're within 10 yards or so, because as long as you can somewhat close the distance (which is rarely difficult), you can get a dash kill which covers 15 feet no problem.

[QUOTE]But as it stands now, if the Elites can do this kind of damage on Legendary by using the Plasma Rifles and that's it, it makes no sense whatsoever to switch to a Melee weapon in the middle of a firefight and begin to close the gap under heavy fire.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure they do it "under heavy fire." But if you start to play really defensively, it makes sense to go after you with a plasma sword because the sword is much more difficult to consistently avoid. You can get hit by some stray bullets, but no stray sword swipe.

I can say one thing for sure. Every time an elite has pullled a sword on me so far, I have been less than appreciative. I feel much better in a distanced battle than when elites with as much life as me try to engage me in melee.

[QUOTE]And when they're rushing at you, the avoiding you're doing is run n gun, lol.[/QUOTE]
Call it as simple a term as you want. It betrays nothing about the actual execution.

[QUOTE]Remember what you said earlier. Humans can outwit the computer. It's really not that hard, hehe. I just look for patterns, really, and...the enemy movement is pretty predictable, honestly.[/QUOTE]
Human movement can be easy to predict as well. That's why strategy must be complemented with precision, which elites have plenty of. And on the higher difficulty levels, the "patterns" of the elites are more difficult to exploit and altogether deal with.

[QUOTE]Perfect Dark's DarkSim, and believe it or not, on the hardest difficulty, the enemies in XIII. Chronicles of Riddick, too, and these are just the "no-name" FPS (except for PD, of course).[/QUOTE]
XIII I didn't play. Riddick put me off with its shoddy demo. And the DarkSim, well I've had extensive play time versus all versions of those. PD is my favorite FPS, you see. But I can't say the actual AI was anything high-level, especially in comparison to Halo's. Indeed, the DarkSim was all about flawless shooting and running like a beast (did it teleport when you weren't looking? I sometimes got that feeling). But the battle strategy of a DarkSim was much closer to "run in and shoot until opponent is dead" than is the strategy of Halo's smarter units. PD is good, but its AI really doesn't compare in complexity and adaptability. Not at all.

[Brasil]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Not if it works, heh. Even in multi, if I have a sword I'll most likely use it. It's effective as soon as you're within 10 yards or so, because as long as you can somewhat close the distance (which is rarely difficult), you can get a dash kill which covers 15 feet no problem.[/quote]
I've found the max distance for the dash kill is only about 7 feet, actually, 9 at the most. Regardless of the maneuver's potential effectiveness up-close, it's still a maneuver that's haphazard in a ranged combat situation, and in multi, because as you're closing the distance, the other player is backtracking and firing (running n gunning), and those rounds will be hitting you enough to damage you significantly and threaten the kill, I doubt that "rarely difficult" is an appropriate adjective here. ~_^

[QUOTE]I'm not sure they do it "under heavy fire." But if you start to play really defensively, it makes sense to go after you with a plasma sword because the sword is much more difficult to consistently avoid. You can get hit by some stray bullets, but no stray sword swipe.

I can say one thing for sure. Every time an elite has pullled a sword on me so far, I have been less than appreciative. I feel much better in a distanced battle than when elites with as much life as me try to engage me in melee.[/QUOTE]
When you're playing defensively, they're going on the offensive, so if they continue to fire Plasma rounds at you and hit nothing but wall, or column, etc, they're not really executing sound combat strategy, are they? If you're behind a doorjam, and the whine of Plasma Rifles discharging is still ringing in your ears, albeit a bit muted from the stone wall, and the AI doesn't show any signs of running in with any Energy Sword, is the AI all that sound?

I mean, honestly. If I were playing, and you had ducked behind a wall so your shield could recharge, I'd bring out that sword and go to gouge your face out with it, lol. If the AI doesn't do that too often, what's the point of playing against the AI? Frankly, I've become bored with FPS AI of late. I need human opponents who actually think, as opposed to the various Grunts and Elites who just run right at me...*sigh*...guess I'll see you on Live, right? ~_^

[QUOTE]Call it as simple a term as you want. It betrays nothing about the actual execution.[/QUOTE]
The actual execution is running n gunning...how is that supposed to be seen as anything different than run n gun?

[QUOTE]Human movement can be easy to predict as well. That's why strategy must be complemented with precision, which elites have plenty of. And on the higher difficulty levels, the "patterns" of the elites are more difficult to exploit and altogether deal with.[/QUOTE]
The patterns are still there, though, lol. They're programmed a certain way; all you have to do is notice what that programming does and how the AI acts because of it.

[quote]XIII I didn't play. Riddick put me off with its shoddy demo. And the DarkSim, well I've had extensive play time versus all versions of those. PD is my favorite FPS, you see. But I can't say the actual AI was anything high-level, especially in comparison to Halo's. Indeed, the DarkSim was all about flawless shooting and running like a beast (did it teleport when you weren't looking? I sometimes got that feeling). But the battle strategy of a DarkSim was much closer to "run in and shoot until opponent is dead" than is the strategy of Halo's smarter units. PD is good, but its AI really doesn't compare in complexity and adaptability. Not at all.[/QUOTE]
It depends on the level, but the DarkSims will flank you. They will bottleneck you. They will pin you, lol. I've played PD till the cartridge wore out, too, and the times when they're going to run straight in is when there's only one entrance to the room. Other than that, they'll go down the hallway you've got your back turned to...it's not beneath them. After all, there are no ethics in the spy game, and the AI is no different.

And check out XIII and Riddick when you have a chance.

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3]*looks at debate between Sciros and Siren*

I ain't got nothing more to add. :D

Actually, if there is one problem that annoys me with the game, it's Live play. I loved it at first, but now little things are starting to turn me off. For one, in every Team Skirmish game, it's just a mad dash to the Energy Sword. Whoever gets it, practically dominates the rest of the match. You can try and stick him with a grenade, but he/she will just retreat and nab another Overshield or Active Camo to help them. Another thing, why the hell is the Energy Sword [i]unlimited[/i] in multiplayer? I can understand it if it was unlimited in Singleplayer, but not in Multiplayer. Why it's the other way around is beyond me...

People who are able to get their hands on a Energy Sword can slash people up to their hearts content. If there was at least a limit on it, it would reduce the amount of "Sword Camping" in games. Don't you think?

Otherwise, my Live tag is [B]Sol-BladeXGP[/B], and I'm currently a level 26 in Team Skirmish! If you care that is...lol[/SIZE]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

My online gamertag is [b]Sciros[/b], so if you see me around... actually it's most likely going to be my brother you're up against. He plays Live a lot more than I do, with any game (Halo 2, DOAU, Crimson Skies, etc.).

Heh, I'm more than likely NOT going to play Riddick or XIII at this point. There are too many other, newer games on my "to get" list. Even MP Echoes didn't find a spot, heh. I just don't have the time or $$ for so many things...

Actually I really gotta get around to beating KOTOR, what with KOTOR II just around the corner...

Anyways, to wrap this up, if you find Legendary elites sincerely boring to play against, then there's not much anyone can do for you. I guess at some point in time we'll have AI that can actually outwit, outplay, outlast an experienced player, but right now there's no such thing. That's why cpus need such high accuracy. Enjoy what you can of Halo 2; I personally like the team dynamic I get out of it in co-op more than anything else. It's like Starcraft, where my favorite mode was "allied" and each member on a team could control every unit that belonged to that team (i.e. shared units). It took tremendous cooperation.

And Sol-Blade I agree that the plasma sword is overpowered in multiplayer. Whenever I get it it's a guaranteed 1 kill and likely a lot more before I die. There should've been an option to take the plasma sword out of the weapon lineup and replace it with something else.

[Brasil]

I have yet to beat KOTOR on total Dark Side. I was just about to, and then my Xbox died on me, and I've yet to get far in my new file on my new system. *grumbles*

I really long for the day when I'm not bored by FPS AI. I think that's why I'm excited about Live and all, because I'll be able to play against human opponents anytime I want, as opposed to the rare Offline Deathmatches with my friends I host around here. I guess they're too inconsistent these days to be entirely worthwhile. The last one fizzled out before midnight, which is "eh" in and of itself.

I do enjoy what I can in Halo 2, though; I find that the co-op is really what saves the Campaign mode.

It was incredibly fun to hop into the Scorpion Tank and start blasting down that bridge, stopping momentarily to park near the rail so my brother could retrive a Ghost that had inexplicably bounced up and landed perfectly onto it, blowing ships out of the sky with Dan zipping on ahead and being a nuisance to the opposition (and sometimes getting in the way of those cannon shells, lol). Then he hopped into a Wraith at the end of the bridge and we proceeded to barrel through the tunnel with two doom vehicles, as it were.

He and I have a good time in the Offline Multi, as well. We've had some neat matches in Burial Mounds. There was one time where I managed to jump over his SMG fire on an angle and slice his head off with an Energy Sword. That was pretty neat. I have fond memories of our sniper duels a la Enemy at the Gates, where he was using a conventional Sniper Rifle and I, a Beam Rifle.

This all brings me back to what I said earlier, actually. The game itself is pretty ordinary. It's just the usual stuff that you'd find in an FPS, but the enjoyment of the game is directly related to whom you're playing with. It's the gamers make the game; not the game makes the game.

About the Energy Sword, it would have certainly made sense to have an "ammo" count for it in Multi, but to my knowledge, it seems that there's only one sword available at one time. In the time I've played Multi, I've only seen the Energy Sword when neither of us had it. If one of us did, it wouldn't respawn. Maybe I was just seeing things, I don't know.

[Sol-Blade]

[QUOTE=Siren]I do enjoy what I can in Halo 2, though; I find that the co-op is really what saves the Campaign mode.

It was incredibly fun to hop into the Scorpion Tank and start blasting down that bridge, stopping momentarily to park near the rail so my brother could retrive a Ghost that had inexplicably bounced up and landed perfectly onto it, blowing ships out of the sky with Dan zipping on ahead and being a nuisance to the opposition (and sometimes getting in the way of those cannon shells, lol). Then he hopped into a Wraith at the end of the bridge and we proceeded to barrel through the tunnel with two doom vehicles, as it were.[/quote]

[SIZE=-3]Yes, Co-Op does add a bit of replayablity to the game. It certainly is a good time to blow throw the skies together in Banshees. I would have to add the me and my friend running through all the crossfire in Quarantine Zone was a real adrenaline rush. I was driving the Spectre, he was in the gunner seat. He was shout at me where to go, I would complain back, and after lots of miscommunication, we laughed hard at our deaths. It really is enjoyable, but this brought up the question of Co-Op Live play. Bungie ditched the idea because they said, it just wouldn't work out. Well, what do you guys think? Granted, playing Co-Op online is a fun on other games (Champions of Norrath to name one), I don't know how it would have fared on Halo II. But that up for speculation...[/SIZE]

[quote name='Siren']About the Energy Sword, it would have certainly made sense to have an "ammo" count for it in Multi, but to my knowledge, it seems that there's only one sword available at one time. In the time I've played Multi, I've only seen the Energy Sword when neither of us had it. If one of us did, it wouldn't respawn. Maybe I was just seeing things, I don't know.[/quote]

[SIZE=-3]Yes, it does indeed only spawn if any one player is currently not weilding one. There is a limit on how many can be in each map, and the limit is the same for each map. It's ONE. Unless specified by a special gametype...

Anyways, still it's too easy to have one play become way too powerful with the sword. Especially in 1vs1 matches. If one or the other player grabs the sword, I pray to the person who has to fend off that...alone. I mean, it sucks to be Billy_Bob03 who just spent his last shell of shotgun rounds on IamTHEmasta who is now rushing him with a sword...

Let's all have a moment of silence for Billy_Bob03. :D [/SIZE]

[50 cent]

[quote name='Siren']So they're not very durable then, meaning, it doesn't take too many shots from a Plasma Rifle, and anytime the Marines are being used for Elite target practice, that means more ammo will be used for the delightful purpose of either killing MC, or killing the wall he's hiding behind, as it were.[/quote]

Okay apparently somebody doesn't know the meaning of quick easy kill. Okay first of all I have never seen or heard ( other than you) of an elite whipping out a sword when not in range. I have only seen elites whip out there swords within the distance of that dashing capability. I mean I have played online a few times and you'll be suprised at how much people take out the sword even when you think there not in range, because first off if you are blasting somebody with a weapon its harder to see the enemy so its harder to land shots so you can get closer, second if it is any type of plasma weapon they can barely turn or look up and down, third the range/dashing thing is like huge, I mean at beaver creek someone was on the point of one of the buildings I looked at them waited for the cross hairs to turn red then I dashed at them and killed them, it friggin looked like I super jumped at them and killed them and thats pretty far apart. So yes you can't see the enemy very well so the elites pull it out when in dashing distance then they slice you in one hit, becasue come on legendary you don't die like that I mean you die faster yes but not where you take 2 bullets and your gone. It takes a while still but none the less or more than 20 shots but hey twenty shots threw metal is still alot of damage.

[QUOTE]Oh, I don't doubt the "knife" at all. I'm fully aware of its destructive capabilities. I've sliced up my brother a few times with it in Multi, and I am well aware of just how dangerous sword-wielding Elites are. With that said, however, the point remains that using a sword in a ranged combat situation is a poor strategic decision, regardless of the ability to get in close after whipping it out.[/QUOTE]

Obviously not because your forgetting that dashing capability and it will kill in one hit. So think pretty good range, really friggin strong

[QUOTE]I only go Melee when I'm in close combat, or when I run out of ammo. I'm not about to pull out a blade at 50 yards out, or even 10 feet out, because if there's gunfire involved, a blade will not be effective until I get in close. When I get in close, however, the blade starts cutting.[/QUOTE]

Hey elites still melee they don't always pull out the sword because hey they still know they can die if they do but they can still get us if they do. So it really doesn't matter how you do it. Oh and I still melee with my gun even if I do have a sword but **** it's not like they have to use it to kill us because thats how your making it sound.

[QUOTE]But as it stands now, if the Elites can do this kind of damage on Legendary by using the Plasma Rifles and that's it, it makes no sense whatsoever to switch to a Melee weapon in the middle of a firefight and begin to close the gap under heavy fire.[/QUOTE]

It does make sense because you have to remember they still over heat there weapons plus I am one of the millions of people who have only seen them pull it out when close or within striking distance.

[QUOTE]And when they're rushing at you, the avoiding you're doing is run n gun, lol.

Remember what you said earlier. Humans can outwit the computer. It's really not that hard, hehe. I just look for patterns, really, and...the enemy movement is pretty predictable, honestly. And plus, you see how quickly you can drain a Plasma Rifle; I don't see why it's any different for Covenant forces.[/QUOTE]

Hey no ******* everyone can outwit them but hey the people that worked on the AI made those moves so really its not a computer we are out smarting its another person. Oh also you have to predict a enemy move sometime I mean look at online if you don't ever predict another persons move then how will you kill them like if you are in a banshee at coagulation with rockets as the weapons obviously they will shoot rockets so you dogde them plus they don't always notice you. So you will have predictions no matter what. It is what makes it fun but hey I do agree there is a little to much move prediction going on but not that much to be complaining. Also the dodge you do dodge then shoot because when there back is facing you then you blast the ******* out of them its how you kill the enemy, and strategy comes from how you are going to move in a covenant controlled location you need to know how to kill them without getting yourself killed especially when there is snipers present, duh.

[QUOTE]Yeah, it's like screenwriting and "show don't tell." You can write something like, "His inner monologue is screaming," but you aren't going to be able to turn to the audience and say, "This is what this character is thinking right now." I think that's definitely one of the pitfalls that Halo plummeted into, among other things. The story that they wanted to tell wasn't concise or focused in the least, and they wanted to squeeze a whole lot into a tiny, itty, bitty space.[/QUOTE]

You still don't get it thats why they have side storys and also you don't have that feeling oh this is what the enemy is thinking right now unless they are rushing you. So I don't get what you are getting at.

[QUOTE]And that's actually why I'm interested in the news that Ridley Scott might helm a Halo movie, because I'm looking for him to bring that focused sensibility to it.

Perfect Dark's DarkSim, and believe it or not, on the hardest difficulty, the enemies in XIII. Chronicles of Riddick, too, and these are just the "no-name" FPS (except for PD, of course).

There's some impressive stuff going on in those games, and people just became obsessed with Halo/Halo 2, thinking what they were seeing was unrealized before, but it's been very much realized before, just commercially ignored.[/QUOTE]

Okay it was noticed before so I don't know who told you this or how this came to be. I loved Chronicles of Riddick that game was great but to me that story wasn't as great as halo's so I didn't like it as much but the environments and AI was great but still they were predicatble and matter of fact that is my next favorite game. It was what the story had to tell us that got us all addicted, plus there multiplayer was the bomb because the weapons rocked so it was like a hardcore match in just a game instead of one shot your dead it was alot more fun because you stayed alive longer and it featured weapons of all sorts and acuracy. If you have never heard the says "It's not what you see that matters most, for that is just a thumbnail of what is uncovered beneath." that right there tells you to listen closely to what they say, watch what is happening because if don't listen you never get the entire story because it actually rocks and it is way good because this story is one of those stories never told before. So what I'm saying is look deeper into a game to get the full experience and you'll enjoy it more.

[Brasil]

[quote name='50 cent']Okay apparently somebody doesn't know the meaning of quick easy kill.[/quote]Quick easy kill; (kwik eeze kil): a kill achieved in gaming that is fast and painless, that requires little to no effort on the part of the attacker.

[QUOTE]Okay first of all I have never seen or heard ( other than you) of an elite whipping out a sword when not in range. I have only seen elites whip out there swords within the distance of that dashing capability.[/QUOTE]I've seen it happen, lol. It [i]does[/i] happen.

[QUOTE]I mean I have played online a few times and you'll be suprised at how much people take out the sword even when you think there not in range,[/QUOTE]Just because people do it does not make it a sound combat tactic.

[QUOTE]because first off if you are blasting somebody with a weapon its harder to see the enemy so its harder to land shots so you can get closer,[/QUOTE]I can see my target pretty darn easily, even when I'm blasting it. I can keep a bead on my opponent quite easily.

[QUOTE]second if it is any type of plasma weapon they can barely turn or look up and down,[/QUOTE]Plasma Rifle? As I recall, the turn/look rates on the Plasma weapons are pretty solid, I'd say, and the Energy Sword has a similarly fast turn rate. What are you talking about?

[QUOTE]third the range/dashing thing is like huge[/QUOTE]It's not huge, lol. It's not even roughly 10 feet.

[QUOTE]I mean at beaver creek someone was on the point of one of the buildings I looked at them waited for the cross hairs to turn red then I dashed at them and killed them, it friggin looked like I super jumped at them and killed them and thats pretty far apart.[/QUOTE]Beaver Creek is the smallest arena in the game, so I hardly think it's an accurate measuring tool for what you're doing.

[QUOTE]So yes you can't see the enemy very well[/QUOTE]I'm able to see my enemy pretty well regardless of what's going on.

[quote]so the elites pull it out when in dashing distance then they slice you in one hit,[/quote]Oh, I think it's a bit more than dashing distance when they pull it out, considering what we've all been discussing here.

[quote]becasue come on legendary you don't die like that I mean you die faster yes but not where you take 2 bullets and your gone. It takes a while still but none the less or more than 20 shots but hey twenty shots threw metal is still alot of damage.[/quote]...I actually can't see any point in here that relates to anything I'm saying. I can't see any point at all here.

[QUOTE]Obviously not because your forgetting that dashing capability and it will kill in one hit. So think pretty good range, really friggin strong[/QUOTE]It's good range if you're in close combat, lol, and in a [i]ranged[/i] combat situation, close combat and melee are not going to help you. Energy Sword Insta-Kill or not, I don't see how you're able to deny that it's poor battle strategy to go melee in a firefight.

[QUOTE]Hey elites still melee they don't always pull out the sword because hey they still know they can die if they do but they can still get us if they do. So it really doesn't matter how you do it.[/QUOTE]What is this "they still know" business? The Elites don't "know" anything; they're programmed to react in a certain way. They're not real, they're not human; they're computer programs, lines of code. And you've been saying in your entire reply here how Elites will essentially exclusively use the sword in close combat, but now you're saying that they will hit you with the butt of their Plasma Rifle? Read my next point.

[QUOTE]Oh and I still melee with my gun even if I do have a sword but **** it's not like they have to use it to kill us because thats how your making it sound.[/QUOTE]Here's my next point: if you have an Energy Sword and you're in close combat, and instead of using the sword, you're using the butt of your gun, you're making a poor combat tactic decision, and Elites are no different. If they're clocking you in the head with a Plasma Rifle's back-end, and they have an Energy Sword they could be using, they're making a combat mistake, and error in judgment. They're using poor strategy.

[QUOTE]It does make sense because you have to remember they still over heat there weapons plus I am one of the millions of people who have only seen them pull it out when close or within striking distance.[/QUOTE]Now, perhaps I just fire the Plasma Rifles differently than you do, but I've never had the thing overheat more than a few times in an hour, because I pace my firerate. I'm not holding the trigger down. If I can prevent, or at least minimize, the amount of times my Plasma weapons overheat, then the Elites can, too, and if their weapons are overheating in a firefight, forcing them to go melee in a ranged combat situation, then they again are using poor combat strategy by firing their weapons to the point of an overheat.

[QUOTE]Hey no ******* everyone can outwit them but hey the people that worked on the AI made those moves so really its not a computer we are out smarting its another person.[/QUOTE]Whoever it is, or whatever it is, it's not up to snuff, lol.

[QUOTE]Oh also you have to predict a enemy move sometime I mean look at online if you don't ever predict another persons move then how will you kill them like if you are in a banshee at coagulation with rockets as the weapons obviously they will shoot rockets so you dogde them plus they don't always notice you. So you will have predictions no matter what. It is what makes it fun but hey I do agree there is a little to much move prediction going on but not that much to be complaining. Also the dodge you do dodge then shoot because when there back is facing you then you blast the ******* out of them its how you kill the enemy,[/QUOTE]Honestly, if I can predict too much in any game, I think I should have the right to voice that criticism. Do you disagree?

[QUOTE]strategy comes from how you are going to move in a covenant controlled location [b]you need to know how to kill them without getting yourself killed especially when there is snipers present, duh[/b].[/QUOTE]Strategy? I just memorize enemy locations (including snipers), because they don't change locations, duh.

[QUOTE]You still don't get it thats why they have side storys and also you don't have that feeling oh this is what the enemy is thinking right now unless they are rushing you. So I don't get what you are getting at.[/QUOTE]If you don't understand my point, I don't think you're quite in the position to tell me I "don't get it."

And since you don't understand what I mean, I'll explain it in Layman's Terms.

When you're writing a screenplay with some 4000 years of backstory, you're screwing yourself over, because there is no way in hell you're going to be able to effectively convey that entire backstory in the 90-page film itself.

Screenplays are written to be self-contained.

Even The Matrix was self-contained, because the EU materials in that franchise did not directly relate to the main characters in the main films. What I mean by this is, we did not need The Animatrix to see and understand what was going on in The Matrix Trilogy itself, because the necessary backstory and information were concise enough to present to us through the course of the film itself, and we did not need EU materials. We still got them, though, because the creators wanted to, not that they needed to.

Do you understand now? The developers of Halo were trying to make their game something it's not. They were trying to do too many things, have too extensive a backstory for what ultimately was a "short and sweet" FPS.

By including this backstory that [i]needed[/i] five novels, a comic book, a lunchbox, etc, to be told so the audience would understand it, they were violating the Golden Rule of screenwriting: Thou shalt not write more than thou can show.

That's as simple as I can explain it. If you don't get it still, there's nothing more I can say to help you, apart from "just trust me on this."

[quote]Okay it was noticed before so I don't know who told you this or how this came to be. I loved Chronicles of Riddick that game was great but to me that story wasn't as great as halo's so I didn't like it as much but the environments and AI was great but still they were predicatble and matter of fact that is my next favorite game. It was what the story had to tell us that got us all addicted, plus there multiplayer was the bomb because the weapons rocked so it was like a hardcore match in just a game instead of one shot your dead it was alot more fun because you stayed alive longer and it featured weapons of all sorts and acuracy.[/quote]I'm not talking about plot when I mention CoR. I'm talking about the AI, which was identical to Halo's. Don't misconstrue what I'm saying, either. I never, never said that CoR's AI was unpredictable, nor did I ever say that PD's AI was unpredictable, nor did I ever say that XIII's AI was unpredictable.

What I [i]did[/i] say, however, and what I [i]am[/i] saying, is that the AI of Halo has been around far, far longer than Halo ever was, and Halo should not be treated as the savior of FPS AI, because it's simply retreading old ground that was treaded years ago.

[quote]If you have never heard the says "It's not what you see that matters most, for that is just a thumbnail of what is uncovered beneath." that right there tells you to listen closely to what they say, watch what is happening because if don't listen you never get the entire story because it actually rocks and it is way good because this story is one of those stories never told before. So what I'm saying is look deeper into a game to get the full experience and you'll enjoy it more.[/QUOTE]Funny you should mention the whole "listen and understand what someone is saying," because that's precisely what you're [i]not[/i] doing here.

By the way, the story of Halo has been told many, many times before. Check out the works of Phillip K. Dick, James Cameron, Harlan Ellison, Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov, Ridley Scott, George Lucas, William Shakespeare, Homer, John Carpenter, Rod Sterling...the list goes on and on.

[50 cent]

Okay sorry I'll use a better measuring tool, if your at blood gulch and there is a sniper up on the cliff with the natural ston pillar on its side you can stand at the base of that look at the person and slash them without even jumping, that is half the highth of the board. Also I'm not saying everybody prases or respects halo's AI. I do know Halo's AI is older than the game itself what I am saying is that everybody loves the stoy line thats why we like the game and the environments its not just the AI. True we don't see AI act like they do on Halo often but thats why we like it plus its a new really well told story. Also they you don't need to read any of the books to know what is happening you just play the game and you know what is going on. The books just give you more information and expand that story which doesn't need to be done they just felt they wanted to. Also to clear this up when you are being shot by any plasma weapon at a fast rate your aiming slows, meaning you can't look around as fast but you can shoot as fast but not look around as fast so they could be in front of you blasting away then on the side and whip out the sword then you are gone. Plus I know you say you have seen them whip swords out when out of range but you are only one person that I have talked to that has actually said they everyone else I have talked to which is atleast 15,000 other people who have the game never said anything like that, they said they like the fact they all have swords and take them out when need or something but never when out of range. Thats all I have to say. 50 out

[Brasil]

[quote name='50 cent']Okay sorry I'll use a better measuring tool, if your at blood gulch and there is a sniper up on the cliff with the natural ston pillar on its side you can stand at the base of that look at the person and slash them without even jumping, that is half the highth of the board.[/quote]
Okay, and what level is Blood Gulch? I just went through the entire Halo 2 Official Guide, and there's no mention at all of Blood Gulch anywhere. Please clarify the precise level before going any further.

[QUOTE]Also I'm not saying everybody prases or respects halo's AI. I do know Halo's AI is older than the game itself what I am saying is that everybody loves the stoy line thats why we like the game and the environments its not just the AI. True we don't see AI act like they do on Halo often but thats why we like it plus its a new really well told story.[/QUOTE]
What?

[QUOTE]Also they you don't need to read any of the books to know what is happening you just play the game and you know what is going on. The books just give you more information and expand that story which doesn't need to be done they just felt they wanted to.[/QUOTE]
They wrote the games like a screenplay. I know what screenwriting is. I've taken seminars with [i]professional screenwriters[/i]. I know my way around a screenplay, 50 cent, and I'm telling you...Bungie seriously dropped the ball with Halo's story, because in order for them to convey it effectively and completely, they [i]needed[/i] to include all of that EU material. Trust me on this. I know what I'm talking about...I've been intensively studying screenwriting/film for a few years now.

[QUOTE]Also to clear this up when you are being shot by any plasma weapon at a fast rate your aiming slows, meaning you can't look around as fast but you can shoot as fast but not look around as fast so they could be in front of you blasting away then on the side and whip out the sword then you are gone.[/QUOTE]
What did you just try to say?

[quote]Plus I know you say you have seen them whip swords out when out of range but you are only one person that I have talked to that has actually said they everyone else I have talked to which is atleast 15,000 other people who have the game never said anything like that, they said they like the fact they all have swords and take them out when need or something but never when out of range. Thats all I have to say. 50 out[/QUOTE]
15,000? That many?

[3v1l.l33t]

The Blood Gulch level is called Coagulation.

[50 cent]

Yes trust me at least 15,000 I chat on aol, msn, yahoo, and xbox live trust me on this they all are different people and they would recognize me if they heard me because I use mics. Oh and sorry the level blood gulch is coagulation sorry.

Do I really need to repeat myself a third time this time I'll try to make it even easier to read. Okay say for example you are shooting me with a plasma rifle alright. With me so far, well anyway you could be directly in front of me but since it is a plasma weapon my look sensitivity drops dramatically so I can barely turn which will give you enough time to get on the side of me before it over heats so you can bring out your sword before I even have time to look at you. I don't know how else to say this so this is the last time I will say this.

I don't care if you have studied screenplay for years now, if you have read the books you would know what I am talking about. I have read all of them and trust me you don't need them to know what is happening. The first book just talks about master chief and other spartans doing difficult missions and that is pretty much it. That does not have nothing to do wtih the game. Ya it does tell you that there was other spartans but in the pamphlet(sp?) for the first game it tells you that all the others were killed off. In the second games pamphlet(sp?) it tells you that you have just arrived back home from Halo's destruction and you obtained a new suit. That is the only info we need! The books are just side storys that you do not need to know at all. I know what I am talking about here. You don't need to have years of screenwriting expirence to know this.

Next how the hell could you not get what I was saying. Not everybody who plays Halo loves the game because of the AI yes it will be predictable at times but it is still great. The reason we really love this game is because of its story, we haven't really had a story like this one yet. We also love this game because of its huge environments, another reason why is its amazing detailed architecture. It's not all about the AI okay.

Oh and I know this story has been told before but it they twisted and played with it to change it around to make it original, I know many people have told a story similar to this but nothing quite like this. Like I have said before pay more attention to the game. If you don't you wont get all of it and that it what will make the game disapointing or less fun. Trust me on this one

Now don't tell me you don't get any of this. 50 out

[Brasil]

[quote name='50 cent']Yes trust me at least 15,000 I chat on aol, msn, yahoo, and xbox live trust me on this they all are different people and they would recognize me if they heard me because I use mics. Oh and sorry the level blood gulch is coagulation sorry.[/quote]
Names, gamertags, screennames, etc, please. All 15,000 of them.

[QUOTE]Do I really need to repeat myself a third time this time I'll try to make it even easier to read. Okay say for example you are shooting me with a plasma rifle alright. With me so far, well anyway you could be directly in front of me but since it is a plasma weapon my look sensitivity drops dramatically so I can barely turn which will give you enough time to get on the side of me before it over heats so you can bring out your sword before I even have time to look at you. I don't know how else to say this so this is the last time I will say this.[/QUOTE]
That was you making it easier to read? Okay. lol

Now, you're saying that what you really mean is that when someone is shooting you with a Plasma weapon, your turn rate slows down. Isn't that how it is in most games, anyway? How does that make Halo 2 any more special than say...Rogue Agent or GoldenEye/Perfect Dark?

And if you meant that with your previous posts, then you sure could have fooled me, man. When I see an entire paragraph of a run-on sentence, with absolutely no punctuation [i]at all[/i], with no commas, or even breaks in the train of thought--no pauses--I tend to not even be able to discern any rational point there.

[QUOTE]I don't care if you have studied screenplay for years now[/QUOTE]
Well, then, that's going to make your entire following gibberish quite meaningless.

[QUOTE]if you have read the books you would know what I am talking about. I have read all of them and trust me you don't need them to know what is happening. The first book just talks about master chief and other spartans doing difficult missions and that is pretty much it. That does not have nothing to do wtih the game. Ya it does tell you that there was other spartans but in the pamphlet(sp?) for the first game it tells you that all the others were killed off. In the second games pamphlet(sp?) it tells you that you have just arrived back home from Halo's destruction and you obtained a new suit. That is the only info we need! The books are just side storys that you do not need to know at all. I know what I am talking about here. You don't need to have years of screenwriting expirence to know this.[/QUOTE]
I'm just going to quote myself from earlier in this very thread:

[quote=Siren]There are some neat parallels there, but considering that they needed the EU novels and all to tell the entire story, I think that's a sign that there's just way too much backstory for a game. They wrote out a screenplay of sorts for the games, and described it as a feature-length film (which, length-wise, it was...90-120 minutes). But I think what most fail to realize is it doesn't matter how much of a backstory you have, because you're not going to be able to show it.

I think the precise illustration of this is during the Making Of Halo 2 on the DVD. When they were talking about the various voice actors recording lines and such, we had two producers talking. I forget their names, but one was the head writer or something, and the other was a co-producer, or something to that effect.

Well, they wanted the actress to say her line faster, and when she asked if there was any particular way they wanted, or something like that, the writer started talking about the history of the Covenant, and it sounds like he went on for a good couple of minutes.

After he was finished, the actress said, "So, you just want me to say it faster?"

The co-producer replied, "Yes, yes--just say it faster."[/quote]
50 cent, you say that we [i]don't[/i] need the books to understand what's going on, and that we're given all the info we need at the start of the game? I think Sol-Blade's posts about the Halo story might punch a hole in that. You can find his (hers?) comments [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=38891&page=4&pp=15][u]here[/u][/url]. I've also taken the liberty of copying and pasting just the timeline:

[quote=Sol-Blade][size=1]The Halo timeline goes a little something like this:

[color=navy][u][b]Halo: Fall of Reach[/b][/u][/color] (The Prologue to everything)

[color=darkred][u][b]Halo: Combat Evolved[/b][/u][/color] <---> [color=navy][b][u]Halo: The Flood[/u][/b][/color] (The book that goes over the events in the game)

[color=navy][u][b]Halo: First Strike[/b][/u][/color] (Takes place after the destruction of Installation 04, and before the attack from Regret on Earth)

[color=darkred][u][b]Halo II[/b][/u][/color] (Where we are at now, and I hope that the next book/game will bring everything to a close!)[/quote][/size]

We're given all the info and backstory we need? Even when [i]they wrote a full-length novel dedicated solely to fleshing out the game and the game alone[/i]? Come on, man.

[QUOTE]Next how the hell could you not get what I was saying.[/QUOTE]
Gee, I've been wondering that myself. Must have something to do with the fact that I don't read incoherent gibberish all that well. What do you think?

[QUOTE]Not everybody who plays Halo loves the game because of the AI yes it will be predictable at times but it is still great. The reason we really love this game is because of its story, we haven't really had a story like this one yet. We also love this game because of its huge environments, another reason why is its amazing detailed architecture. It's not all about the AI okay.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so your response to the criticisms of the gameplay, AI, and story being bland basically boils down to you like the game because it's "pretty." Is that more or less accurate?

[QUOTE]Oh and I know this story has been told before but it they twisted and played with it to change it around to make it original, I know many people have told a story similar to this but nothing quite like this. Like I have said before pay more attention to the game. If you don't you wont get all of it and that it what will make the game disapointing or less fun. Trust me on this one.[/QUOTE]
The story is straight out of sci-fi B-movies. Look at just how many Twilight Zone/Outer Limits episodes have used the exact same premise/concept/plot before.

[quote]Now don't tell me you don't get any of this. 50 out[/QUOTE]
I don't get any of it because you aren't saying anything.

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3][quote name='Siren]I think Sol-Blade's posts about the Halo story might punch a hole in that. You can find his (hers?) comments [url=http://www.otakuboards.com/showthread.php?t=38891&page=4&pp=15][u]here[/u][/url'].[/quote]

Ahem, HIM. :D

And, yes...without the books the story is "okay". I don't feel like getting involved in this right now, or ever again for that matter (We've debated the damn thing to death already! lol), so just listen to Siren. You won't win. ^_~

Uh, Happy Holidays![/SIZE]

[2010DigitalBoy]

For Christmas I got an X-Box, and the two Halo games. Let me say this. Halo 2 is AWESOME. Sure, Ive only beaten the first level in both games (god, they are similar) but it is still a great game. I cant wait to get XBOX Live and another controller so I can play Co-Op with my brother.

[Inu500]

I love Halo 2 on Xbox Live! But I felt that the Single player Campaign Was too short. I beat easy and normal mode in four hours. If I'm gonning to pay $50's for a game at least make it harder. The only thing I really liked about Halo 2 was Gonnig on xbox live and being a conveant instead of master cheif. There are like too many master cheif's on xbox live. Well I am glad that bungie made halo 2. But I still feel like there was something missing. For instance, I didn't like playing on both sides of the story (Master Cheif and the Abitar). I'd rather play the game as master cheif only. I also didn't like at the ending where master cheif was about to go to earth and they just ended the game. I wanted to see what happened. I don't want to pay $300's for the Xbox 2, just to play Halo 3. But I still love halo 2 for the multiplayer mode. I mean you can have clans! Who doesn't love that.

[50 cent]

Actually the reason why everybody is mostly spartans is because they are skinnier and harder to shoot. elites are more braud and tall so they are a bigger target and easier to kill trust me thats why you see only the really really good people as a spartan. Oh and thats Sol-blade for being on my side of the debate.

[natetron46]

[quote name='ThatOneOddDude'] Sure, Ive only beaten the first level in both games (god, they are similar) [/quote]
Thats pretty much why I dont think Halo 2 is as good as everyone gives it credit for. Its over rated, especially when you just regurgitate the last game with a slightly new storyline.

[Brasil]

[quote name='50 cent']Oh and thats Sol-blade for being on my side of the debate.[/quote]What side? You were trying to defend something that is so clearly flawed, and your "argument" was so clearly incoherent that you weren't saying much of anything, trying to "prove" your "points" by resorting to vague references to some absurd, exaggerated number of people, each and everyone of whom you've claimed to have talked to, claiming they'll back you up.

Also, the fact remains that Halo's story is a B-movie, Halo's AI is tired and monotonous, Halo's action can be found in virtually every single FPS known to man, and Halo's only saving grace is tight controls that are only tight because of the Xbox controller being very well-suited to FPS. Does this mean it's a bad game? No. It means it's average.

{Omitted} (1:00:43 AM): Sol-Blade wasn't on his side. XD
{Omitted} (1:00:47 AM): I know.
{Omitted} (1:00:48 AM): lol
{Omitted} (1:01:26 AM): I think he was trying to be sarcastic...?
{Omitted} (1:01:35 AM): It didn't work.
{Omitted} (1:01:44 AM): No, it did not.

[50 cent]

Okay first of not many people are looking for storylines that much anymore, because clearly you are not a gamer, most people just want the multiplayer/ online play. Oh and trust me I think I have talked to atleast 15,000. I mean I play atleast 300 different people everyother day so I think that could add up to 15,000 but also thats just xbox live, there is people on yahoo msn and aol that I have talked to that I have never faced so I think I know what I'm talking about on this one because well your not me, are you? Okay I will just say everything that did let me down just a little bit, yes the first level did seem a little similar to the first but first off we got a new suit, also the covenant followed us to Earth and was trying to blow all our space cannon things up so we were trying to defend it, on the first game we were just trying to escape. Then in the cut scenes there was a little bit of lag here and there and the story was a little short, and the AI was pretty much like the first but it still has there differences. But hey what can we do we are not the creatures, but I really think you need to play it on xbox live and see how many people really got the game for the online play, I mean yes everybody loves the fact of jacking people out of there vehicles but we all want online play I mean yes we will all go through the campaign and if we are dissapointed in it oh well because we have a really great multiplayer. Thats all we ever really wanted. Oh also I bet you the range of the sword is larger than you think it is. If you were at coagulation in the middle of the map and I was on top one of the bases I bet you I could kill you with the sword using the dash attack. That is something I will bet on my own life do you know because I have only done it to a whole crap load of people. 50 out

[Brasil]

[quote name='50 cent']Okay first of not many people are looking for storylines that much anymore, because clearly you are not a gamer, most people just want the multiplayer/ online play.[/quote]
I'm not a gamer because I criticize Halo's story, because I play a game for the story? Oh, come on, lol.

Why do people continue to rave about MGS1? The gameplay is tired as hell now (it's PSX circa 1998), the graphics are laughable at best, yet gamers still treasure it. Why? Because the characters are well-written, the characterizations solid, the dialogue tight, the plot pacing well-constructed, and a concept that's engaging and exciting.

What about Chronicles of Riddick? I bought the PC edition not even a week ago, and I'm already halfway through the game, even in light of my computer being unable to run the game perfectly (frame-dropping at various heavy action points, and graphical stuttering), because the plot and story are gripping and entertaining. The characters are lively and aren't just tired and recycled B-movie cliches.

Knights of the Old Republic II has frozen on me a few times since I got it for Xmas, and yet, I'm already 35 hours into my second playthrough, and playing it through again on Light Side to catch the plot developments you miss going through on Dark Side.

I find it funny how you're trying to justify Halo now by disregarding my comments about the story, claiming that "Halo wasn't designed for story." That's what your [b][i]new[/i][/b] argument boils down to, and if you were to check out the Bonus DVD that came with the Collector's Edition of Halo 2, you would know that your claim is a load of horse****. They wrote out a screenplay, 50 cent...a [i]screenplay[/i]. Halo not having a focus on story? Sure...you're still trying to dance around having to concede my point that Halo's story is B-movie material.

[quote]Oh and trust me I think I have talked to atleast 15,000. I mean I play atleast 300 different people everyother day so I think that could add up to 15,000 but also thats just xbox live, there is people on yahoo msn and aol that I have talked to that I have never faced so I think I know what I'm talking about on this one because well your not me, are you?[/quote]
And like I requested before, names, Gamertags, screennames. All 15,000 of them. And now you "think" you've talked to at least 15,000? What happened to "I [b][i]have[/i][/b] talked to 15,000"? You were pretty adamant about that before I started pressing that issue, and with your addition of "I mean I play atleast 300 different people everyother day so I think that could add up to 15,000...[etc]," I'm beginning to smell the unraveling of a rather large tapestry of bull****

[QUOTE]Okay I will just say everything that did let me down just a little bit, yes the first level did seem a little similar to the first but first off we got a new suit, also the covenant followed us to Earth and was trying to blow all our space cannon things up so we were trying to defend it, on the first game we were just trying to escape. Then in the cut scenes there was a little bit of lag here and there and the story was a little short, and the AI was pretty much like the first but it still has there differences.[/QUOTE]
You've already taken the first step in admitting that Halo/2 is average...take the next step, and the step after that, and after that, because you do see it now. You're no longer blindly praising the game, like you were in your first replies in this thread, are you?

[QUOTE]But hey what can we do we are not the creatures[/QUOTE]
I'm not a creature, no, nor am I a creator.

[QUOTE]but I really think you need to play it on xbox live and see how many people really got the game for the online play, I mean yes everybody loves the fact of jacking people out of there vehicles but we all want online play I mean yes we will all go through the campaign and if we are dissapointed in it oh well because we have a really great multiplayer. Thats all we ever really wanted.[/QUOTE]
I hear criticisms of the story, and how it's too brief in the game, how the scope of what they want to do was too large...something tells me that multiplayer/online wasn't the only thing that gamers really wanted, 50. Again, you're trying to justify Halo/2 by claiming that nobody cared about the story, that all they were interested in was action? Then they should play Doom, because that's really what Halo is anyway: Doom with advanced graphics, and Doom 3 does Doom far better than Halo/2, and Half-Life 2 outdoes Halo/2 if you're looking for "interactive" gameplay.

[quote]Oh also I bet you the range of the sword is larger than you think it is. If you were at coagulation in the middle of the map and I was on top one of the bases I bet you I could kill you with the sword using the dash attack. That is something I will bet on my own life do you know because I have only done it to a whole crap load of people. 50 out[/QUOTE]
The precise middle of Coagulation, huh? Right...your "arguments" are getting more inane and ridiculous as you reply, 50.