Has anyone noticed how much TV is going downhill?

[Spikora]

Maybe I'm biased because Angel's been cancelled for some unfathomable reason, but the more I look around, the more it seems like there's tons of good shows being cancelled for no reason. I mean, please, what's this about? Those stupid Nielson's ratings which only use a really small section of the population and then, if that's not enough, also include channel surfing as watching shows?

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this. Is it just me? Or are other people noticing this too?

[Semjaza]

I just found out today that Fox is getting rid of Wonderfalls... a show I considered to be one of their best and certainly the best new show I've seen in the past few years.

They put a small push behind it, but once it started airing they pretty much just gave up on it. The only commercials I saw for it after that were on during its own timeslot. This was eerily similiar to what they did with Futurama as well... which was obviously cancelled and suffered a lot due to it being constantly pre-empted by sports games.

Fox always moves their shows around after people get used to the time slots too. Everything they've canceled in recent memory has had this happen. Family Guy, Futurama, Titus, etc. Wonderfalls was moved to a new timeslot against CSI (which is like the number one show on TV right now or something) and was cancelled after one episode in the slot.

I don't get TV decisions. Especially Fox's. It's as if they have something against TV shows with any shred of intelligence to them. We're stuck with reality shows about dwarfs and people who think marriage is just a game. When they find a trend they stick with it. First all those "World's _____iest ______" shows, now the crap they have now.

Broadcast television really is bad now in general. Any show that gets popular is beaten into the ground to the point that it has little reason to exist anymore. Even The Simpsons, which I still love, really doesn't seem like it should be on the air anymore.

[PWNED]

You both have good points but I belive it is even worse here in Australia. Now let me think 50%- 60% of shows on are reality or Dramas/Soapys, 20% are crime shows and the rest are god knows what kind of crap.

EG: A basic timetable of Mondays from 5:00 pm to 9:30 pm

| 5:00 | 5:30 | 6:00 | 6:30|7:00| 7:30| 8:00| 8:30| 9:00|
ABC:|Corneile & Bernie| Lizzie Maguire| Dr Who| News| News| ????????
7:|Wheel of Fortune| Deal or no deal| news| 2day 2night| Home & Away| Better homes n Gardens(1 hour)| las Vegas(1 hour)
9: |News| News| news| News| Frasier| Friends| 2 & a half men| Who wants 2 be a millionare
10: News( 1 hour)| Simpsons| Neighbours|The Hot House| the Sketch show| The Simpsons| Queer Eye|

I have said enough ok. Absolute crap is not enough tho describe the shows.

[Shinmaru]

Many of my favorite TV shows have been victims of cancellation over the years and it's driven me away from TV a bit...especially Fox's decisions. Tony has already pointed out how extremely dumb Fox is (unless there is some ulterior motive that is unfathomable by our puny minds as to why Fox changes around their time slots so much).

I don't watch much TV, anymore. The only channel I regularly watch is Comedy Central, since they have a bevy of interesting and hilarious shows, though they're not all good. That's the best I have, since every other channel that once held my faith over the years has proved time and time again that they're not worth my attention.

[Panda]

I really don't watch tv that much anymore because it is all the same stuff. It seems like they are just going for the lowest common denominator....reality shows. I am sick of it. I don't want to watch shallow people vie for the attention (and money) of some supposed wealthy person. I don't want to watch Extreme Makeovers. It seems like the majority of people just want to be shocked by what other people are willing to do.

Temptation Island, The Swan, any of the marry someone shows....they just don't have the intellectual stimulation I would like to see in programming. Mind you, I love being entertained, but not like that. I would much rather watch a great anime series with a good storyline than little people competing for a mate.

My hubby and I went 3 years without televistion. The only thing I missed watching was the news. But I could get that off the internet. There are a some good shows still left on television but they are few and far inbetween.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well all shows like Angel, Buffy, Hercules, etc. all went downhill after a while. It's something I've come to expect. By the time each came to an end, I didn't even care anymore.

Yes, there are some crappy shows being made nowadays, but it's hardly any different from before. There's always, at least for me, a few shows worth watching per week. As good shows get bad (or go away), a couple of other decent shows replace them.

Currently I watch Curb Your Enthusiasm, new South Park episodes, Seinfeld reruns, the Daily Show (occasionally), and Survivor/Apprentice. I like some "reality" shows because they're done quite well, and I don't see why people are so prejudiced towards them. Of course for every Apprentice there is a Forever Eden or The Littlest Groom or Average Joe, so never mind what I just said. Most of them ARE stupid. Survivor has its ups and downs. Sometimes it's part of the "crap" on TV, sometimes it's not. It depends on who is on it.

So in my opinion TV isn't going downhill. It's about where it has always been. It's not like I used to watch tons of TV because it was all awesome and now I watch nothing because it's all horrible. I don't think anything has actually changed.

[Monkey_Orange]

[COLOR=DarkOrange]I never used to watch THAT much TV until I went to college and met my roomate. My roomate was a TRF [television, radio, & film] major--so yeah, she watches A LOT of TV. I guess that TV watching is contagious because I began watching whatever she watched.

But time passes, and now my 'college' days shows have already ended or will end soon. To me, it's depressing because it just demonstrates the fact that I'm getting older :eek: Also, the TV shows that came afterwards are just not as appealing.

[U]Shows that I enjoyed that are already dead or will die soon:[/U]
[B]Buffy: the Vampire Slayer[/B] I loove this show!!! I started watching Buffy at the beginning of the 2nd season--I think--and stuck with it until the very end. I'm a big supportor of Buffy x Angel *^^* And Oz too!

[B]Felicity[/B] I enjoyed this show because it was also about a girl who went to college. But the thing that made me stick to it was that the main character, myself, and my roomate both started our college years at the same time. So I guess you can say that the show was like our college 'marker'--when Felicity was a freshman, we also also freshman, and when she graduated--so did we ^^ As for the ending of the show...darnit, she never should've taken Ben back! Argh... :flaming:

[B]Farscape[/B] A little bit of Sci-Fi never hurts. And this show absolutely kicks ***! Sadly, it was cancelled last year...BUT Scifi channel is bringing it back later this year for a 6-part mini series to conclude the story. About damn time! The last 5 seconds of the ending was HORRIBLE!

[B]Angel[/B] A wonderful spinoff of Buffy. I'm just sad that Buffy won't be returning for the finale *sad*

[U]Shows that I enjoy that are still alive [but for how much longer?]:[/U]
[B]Smallville[/B] This is perhaps the only decent show left on the WB ever since Felicity and Dawson's Creek. I'm just not into the other evening dramas like One Tree Hill or Everwood. Whatever! I just don't have the energy to watch such things--especially after the shows I mentioned earlier.

[B]Alias[/B] The ONLY good show on ABC *^^* And my absolute 'must watch' show. Funny thing about this show is that I was the ONE who actually introduced it to my roomate back in our senior year of college. *proud of herself* It's getting evn better and better, but I wonder how long it will last ^^ ABC better NOT pull the plug suddenly or else I'll be quite the upset viewer--and my roomate too [hmm...she's not really my roomate anymore so why do I still call her that? Strange].

[B]CSI[/B] Yes, I like this show--it's cool! I enjoy watching CSI: LV, not CSI: Miami [I don't like David Carusoe!]. BUT I heard that there may be a CSI: New York--and THAT, I shall check out [I love the City].

Well, that's about it for me.

[/COLOR]

[satan665]

I think that Fox purposely kills shows that it doesn't like unless they're huge ratings winners. ABC did the same thing to the Clerks cartoon, they showed episodes out of order so that the flashbacks to previous episodes were for episodes that didn't air yet.

Freaks and Geeks was one of the best shows ever, and they moved it around so much that I couldn't figure out when it was going to be on week to week. Thats why it got cancelled.

I still watch a few great shows, including anything new on Cartoon Network (the last smart network as far as programming)

Smallville is great, I really like Everwood even though its depressing because its realistic. I really like Chapelle's Show (WHATT!) and I watch Survivor every odd season or so. I hate that I watch Real World but I do anyway and thats about it. I still get pissed everytime I see a Simpsons episode from the last few seasons, because its just that horrible!!!

[Rhiannon]

The only show I really watch any more is Charmed, and somewhere in the pit of my stomach I can just feel that they're going to end it soon....which is going to send me into a frekkin rage. All the shows I loved are gone, only to be replaced with crap like 'reality' television. I feel cheated when my fave shows like The Invisible Man, and Buffy were ripped off. :flaming:

[Shiguru]

I prettymuch only watch a select few shows now: The Simpsons, The Sopranos, Deadwood, MXC, Star Trek reruns (original, TNG, DS9), Comedy Central Presents, Insomiac, South Park, Chappelle's show, Everything on Adult Swim Sunday.

And that's about it. Everything else has gone beyond crap these days from Smallville destroying DC continuity by seeping into the comics (Superman: Birthright) to Americans wanting to watch dwarfs marry.

[BlueGender]

[COLOR=Navy][SIZE=1]The Simpsons characters are on strike they want more money for the next 3 seasons they want to be payed 8 million a piece for the next seasons ( the simpsons makes 2.5 billion for Fox each year) and Dave Chappelle is holding out for more rights and money for the third season of Chappelles show (Chappelles show is the most watched TV show next to South Park on Comedy Central some weeks its even more watched and it has brought the Daily Shows ratings up) . All my favorite shows are disappearing Home Movies was cancelled...again. Its a sad moment in television, we thought this reality TV phase was only going to last a year but its taking over TV. Why is it people get so much pleasure from watrching people...just like poeple they can meet in real life.

Thank goodness Adult Swim is doing some good, they are bringing more anime into there lineup, and got us a new season of Family Guy hopefully Futurama is next. They are putting on a new season of Aqua Teen Hunger Force (the funniest show on Adult Swim in my opinion)[/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I watch news, (CNN and local) and I have a bad adiction to talk shows (Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! :rotflmao: ) But other than that I really don't pay much attention when I watch TV since I'm only using it for background noise.

I think reality shows have over lived their fifteen minutes of fame in my humble opinion. Do we [i]really[/i] need another show about picking someone based on looks to get married to (if that was the case I'd be collecting kitties) or even worse, a show where the object of getting money is to lie about some guy you're supossedly going to marry? Give me a break

Most of the stuff I pay the slightest bit of attention to is the Tonight Show with Jay Leno Fraiser (which is in it's last season) and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. The last one is actually something of a reality show I guess, but nobody's stabbing someone in the back (my parents like to talk about that one season of survivor where this guy lied about his granma being sick/dead) THat and Home makeover I can deal with, but please, not another show about some woman who wants to fix her crow's feet. *dies* :flaming: [/color]

[sublime2004]

[b][size=1][color=darkred]
I must agree that the last five seconds of the last episode of Farscape SUCKED!!!! I literally yelled out, "WHAT THE F**K??"

It's not enough that they have to cancel an extremely good show, but they have to ruin the ending?

I really do agree that TV is going downhill. Reality TV is a joke, they kill off the most lovable characters on good shows(i.e. Angel), then they shovel "teen" programming down our throats.

Real World my a**! I would kill myself if the world was really like that horrid show.

Back to my utter hatred of "reality" tv. I use the quotes for a reason. Has anyone ever noticed how many writers there are in the credits after an episode of Survivor?

I absolutely can NOT stand MTV. It's a crime against music itself. I can only stand Beavis and Butt-Head. It's asinine, I know. But I find it funny.

VH1 I like, though. "I love the 70's" and "I love the 80's" and the other "Strikes Back" series are quite entertaining.

Comedy Central is by far my favorite network. Kids in the Hall, Chappelle's Show, Reno 911!, Comedy Central Presents, South Park(of course), Who's Line Is It Anyway?, all great shows.[/b][/size][/color]

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Television historically targets the lowest common denemenator of the culture, so it should be no surprise that many people are unstatisfied with it. I watch Smallville and Scrubs, and the rest is all cartoons. Cartoons, I believe, are the best programming being produced.

What I dislike more than bad televsion, though, is good television that's extended long past it's lifetime. Friends, The Simpsons, Fraiser, South Park, etc. I wish, for once, something would end exactly when it's supposed to.[/color][/font][/size]

[Shiguru]

Most of the shows you people mentioned that were cancelled were cancelled for one of 2 major reasons (usually)

1) lack of ratings (Futurama at 7:30? nobody watches tv on sunday at 7:30 unless there is a football game on.)

2) It's just time to end it. If a new Superman movie comes out Smallville is gone. Friends ran forever (I hated the show, but some people liked it.), Frasier is closing it's doors. The Sopranos (which still is a quality show!) is nearing it's end.

Now it's these new shows that really blow. Enterprise stomped all over Star Trek continuity, most anything else on UPN started to blow etc.

[Spikora]

[QUOTE=Shiguru]Most of the shows you people mentioned that were cancelled were cancelled for one of 2 major reasons (usually)

1) lack of ratings (Futurama at 7:30? nobody watches tv on sunday at 7:30 unless there is a football game on.)

[/QUOTE]

My problem is that the Nielson ratings or whatever they're called are totally screwed up. Lycos did an article about it, so I do have evidence to back up this point. They had their top ten and compared them to how the Nielsons rated them.

Take a look:
1. American Idol (2)
2. The Apprentice (5)
3. Survivor: All-Stars (4)
4. Angel (100s)
5. Friends (16)
6. 60 Minutes (20)
7. The O.C. (23)
8. CSI (1)
9. Law and Order (9)
10. That 70's Show (24)

The Nielsons are in parentheses.

Another thing that bugs me is that I've heard the Nielsons only sample a small group of people and count channel surfing.

[Spikora]

For crying out loud, Fox isn't picking Tru Calling up for a second season!!!!!!!!

I just loved that show. Eliza Dushku played Tru perfectly, and it was an excellent concept (dead people ask Tru to save them, so she ends up living days. She saves them - most of the time.) Each episode was a little mystery, and now it's GONE!!!! One more episode left!

[G/S/B Master]

TV is starting to blow, and it's going to die out quick.

FOX is so stupid. They don't know what the people like or don't like. And I SERIOUSLY hate their recent reality shows. American Idol is getting bland, and Forever Eden is just PATHETIC!!! FE should've been Paradise Hotel season 2 for god sakes!

UPN is making some good moves, their closing ALL of their shows and their showing re-runs now XD. Also, it seems to me like it's being run by BET. Virutally EVERY show in UPN has something in common. Can you guess what it is?

The Simpsons is good, but it is getting repetitive. I'm a fan of that show myself, but after 14 or so seasons, it's pretty boring.

TV is sliding down a lava pit, if the tv stations make any more bad moves, expect everyone in America reading or playing outside :). That is my friend, heaven XD.

[SaiyanPrincessX]

I've thought TV shows have been going down hill for years. I hate most of those shows, and totally dispise reality shows. *gags*

There are so many poitless television shows nowadays, which all have alot of the same concepts. At least this is what I've found. No offence to those who enjoy them however.

America can now be called the central of reality shows, unfortunetely.

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Monkey_Orange][COLOR=DarkOrange]
[U]Shows that I enjoyed that are already dead or will die soon:[/U]
[B]Buffy: the Vampire Slayer[/B] I loove this show!!! I started watching Buffy at the beginning of the 2nd season--I think--and stuck with it until the very end. I'm a big supportor of Buffy x Angel *^^* And Oz too!

[B]Angel[/B] A wonderful spinoff of Buffy. I'm just sad that Buffy won't be returning for the finale *sad*[/color][/quote]
Let's face it, Buffy needed to be cancelled. Their ratings dropped and the 6th and 7th were just painful to watch. It's shame Angel is being cancelled (and only have 6 episodes to tie up 245 episodes of plot arcs) but the ratings were going bad too.

[quote][U]Shows that I enjoy that are still alive [but for how much longer?]:[/U]
[B]Smallville[/B] This is perhaps the only decent show left on the WB ever since Felicity and Dawson's Creek. I'm just not into the other evening dramas like One Tree Hill or Everwood. Whatever! I just don't have the energy to watch such things--especially after the shows I mentioned earlier.

[B]Alias[/B] The ONLY good show on ABC *^^* And my absolute 'must watch' show. Funny thing about this show is that I was the ONE who actually introduced it to my roomate back in our senior year of college. *proud of herself* It's getting evn better and better, but I wonder how long it will last ^^ ABC better NOT pull the plug suddenly or else I'll be quite the upset viewer--and my roomate too [hmm...she's not really my roomate anymore so why do I still call her that? Strange].

[B]CSI[/B] Yes, I like this show--it's cool! I enjoy watching CSI: LV, not CSI: Miami [I don't like David Carusoe!]. BUT I heard that there may be a CSI: New York--and THAT, I shall check out [I love the City].

Well, that's about it for me.

[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt any of these shows will be cancelled. It is a shame though that TV is being taken over by morons that want to see failures try to sing or whatever. Apprentice was actually pretty good though. As for G/S/B Master, UPN has been like that for an eternity now. Hell Family Guy made fun of it in like it's first season.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Do you guys realize that people have been saying "TV is going downhill" for ever? It's not like 50 years ago TV was at some unbelievable level of high culture. Shows come and go, and whenever a show people like goes, they ***** and moan about it. Hercules was great. Then it left. Buffy came. It was great. Then it sucked. Then it left. Now we have Smallville. It'll suck. It'll leave. Seinfeld was great. Then it left. Now we have Curb Your Enthusiasm and Arrested Development. Those will later leave, to be replaced by something else watchable. There's a cycle. As audiences' tastes change, so do shows. That's why we have an influx of "reality" TV. Believe it or not, but a very large portion of Americans (i.e. those who watch the "reality" TV) don't think TV has really gone downhill all that much.

It all depends on your tastes in the end, but I can't say it's proper to generalize like many of you are doing. Of course, that's just my two cents.

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=ScirosDarkblade]Do you guys realize that people have been saying "TV is going downhill" for ever? It's not like 50 years ago TV was at some unbelievable level of high culture. Shows come and go, and whenever a show people like goes, they ***** and moan about it. Hercules was great. Then it left. Buffy came. It was great. Then it sucked. Then it left. Now we have Smallville. It'll suck. It'll leave. Seinfeld was great. Then it left. Now we have Curb Your Enthusiasm and Arrested Development. Those will later leave, to be replaced by something else watchable. There's a cycle. As audiences' tastes change, so do shows. That's why we have an influx of "reality" TV. Believe it or not, but a very large portion of Americans (i.e. those who watch the "reality" TV) don't think TV has really gone downhill all that much.

It all depends on your tastes in the end, but I can't say it's proper to generalize like many of you are doing. Of course, that's just my two cents.[/QUOTE]
Of course, we mustn't forget that "Reality TV" isn't even reality TV. The participants/contestants/victi--er...[i]cannon fodder[/i] know they're being taped, they know there are cameras around, and they're getting paid. Really, the only way for the entertainment industry to have true, real Reality TV is to break the law.

Even keeping in mind the state of constant flux, we cannot ignore the fact that the majority of "Reality" TV does in fact suck. The Apprentice is boorish; The Simple Life is ridiculous (though, some have called it a satire of Reality TV); Survivor has turned into Fear Factor. Hell, knowing that Tarantino was guest judging on American Idol a few weeks ago made me watch the episode. AI [i]needed[/i] a boost like that.

So, I think it's safe to say that particular genres are becoming tired. And the "Reality" genre dying after what, 5, 6 years? It didn't have the strength of say, The Honeymooners, to begin with.

One show that I was extremely disappointed to know was not picked up for a second season was Undergrads. It was a really well-conceived and well-written cartoon about a group of four childhood friends who still get together in college. Two of them are roommates, the third is a computer/Star Wars geek who goes to a tech school, and the fourth is more or less a jock moron attending a community college. Not to say community colleges suck, of course. It's just that Rocko certainly isn't the brightest bulb in the box.

Undergrads is a fantastic show and it's unfortunate only one season was produced. Season 1 is on DVD, in case anyone's interested, and you can find it in reruns around 3 am on various weeknights, on Comedy Central. It was hip, smart, funny, and most importantly, well-written.

Really, concerning older shows, especially the endurance trial kid's shows on Nickelodeon, they're pretty bad. I was watching GUTS the other day. Pretty bad stuff. The British announcer chick was hot, at least. That was a plus, but she couldn't save the show.

Nick Arcade was another show I remember enjoying, but I caught a rerun of it. It's...bad. The announcer knows absolutely nothing about gaming, the game selections are third-rate Atari and/or arcade games, and the show wasn't really handled well at all. On top of that, the kids had absolutely no idea how to play the games, and were totally uncomfortable standing in front of those machines.

So, in some cases, our view of retro TV is tinted by rose-colored glasses (such is the case with Nick gameshows). Other times, though, what we remember as good is still good today. I still get a kick out of Alf, and Thundercats still rocks my world. I watch The Honeymooners reruns and laugh my *** off, and there's still something endearing about Leave it to Beaver. The Simpsons reruns pretty much guarantee a laugh, and The Critic is still as sharp and scathing as it was in 1994.

There's an old adage that goes, "Good TV doesn't die." That's the truth. From how it looks today, the majority of the shows now don't have much staying power. It might be a quality issue or it might be the audience. It's probably a combination of both, actually. The really excellent shows like Undergrads get ignored, while cartoons like Totally Spies get prime time slots.

[Shiguru]

Wasn't undergrads a flash cartoon first?

And BTW. Welling said it himself, if he is cast as the next Supes in the movie (which is still stuck in development hell.) then the show is going to be cancelled. Not that it was that great anyway. It's hard to keep a character like Superman fresh and exhilerating in live action. At least in the comics and the cartoons he can kick some alien *** or explore the psycological aspects of being the worlds second most powerful man. (Batman's cunning and intellegnce make him #1)

[Darius_Stomu]

Personally, I think it's because of th 25 or so reality shows. I mean, Survivor, The Swan, The Bachulor (I think I spelled that one wrong.). IT DRIVES ME CRAZY! I mean, Survivor started all this Reality bull. If I wanted to watch a reality show, I'd hook cameras up around my neighbors house. If you want a reality show, try your own damn life! Sheesh...

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

They're not true reality, but I don't think that's a proper reason to dislike the shows. Their producers themselves say that "reality TV" is a misnomer. They'd rather be considered "unscripted dramas," which would be more proper. I personally think that many of them are the next evolution of games shows, basically.

Also, to say that they're what makes TV bad is quite wrong. Sure, there are bad "reality" shows out there, but there are just as many (more, actually) bad sitcoms, bad sports shows, bad scripted dramas, you name it. There's a lot of bad TV out there. And the good isn't limited to primetime WB, either.