God and Americans

[Guest zantoff]

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

What do you think? :wigout: :flaming:

[Guest gendou ikari]

Every man believes in God deep down in his heart ,or they would not replace Him with images of man made creations, or supress him within their soul... That is why we go to hell. Because it is inexusable to reject God and the US is trying to remind the people.

[Dan L]

[QUOTE=zantoff]It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

What do you think? :wigout: :flaming:[/QUOTE]

because that wouldn't be very pastoral, now, would it. Imagine you are the 14%, and the other 86% want to say "In Satan we alliege" (Bear in mind this is undert the assumption that 86% of Americans are now followers of the Evil One)

You say we don't like it, and they say "Shut the hell up". I can't imagine you'd like that.

"Do to others as you would have done to yourselves".

By no means does this mean you should instantly get rid of the phrase on the coins, and nor does it mean that that is the conclusion that should be come to in the end. What it means is that you should pay attention to what others have to say a little more often. In fact, if Christians did this as a whole, then maybe the 14% wouldn't have that much of an issue with Trusting in God, because hey, the guys who follow him aren't that bad.

If in God we trust, then in God we follow, and if in God we follow, then we are the servants of everyone, (That's a shortened version of a few Bible verses) and that means a little less of imposing our beliefs (something Christians are remarkably gifted and well known for) and a little more consideration.

(Note: Don't take this as a dig at you personally. I don't even know if you are Christian- maybe you just wanted to start some controversy :p. But once you get me going I take a while to make my point, and so you get a post looking a bit like this one, except this one is unusually short..)

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=zantoff]It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

What do you think? :wigout: :flaming:[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Well, as a soon to be parent I think that telling someone to Sit down and Shut up is considered rather rude and inconsiderate of others feelings. If you were in the minority's position I doubt you'd feel the same way.

The reason there's such a big to do is because even the 86% that believe in God can't decide on what the right way is to Worship Him/Her (Yes, I said her, and I'll get to that too) Heck, even the people who worship in the same church in the same denomination can't decide which way of worship is correct. :wigout:

I think that people should stop being so shallow brained about others beliefs. There are other religions besides those based on a single diety. Some people even believe that God is a woman. :D

I have to wonder about the whole poll or whatever that determined that 86% of Americans believe in God. Did they specify that they believe in a Christian God or was it on a broader spectrum of believing in God? I'm asking this because although I believe in a God, I don't beleive in the Christian verson of God. So this theory is flawed.

Of topic: when I become president, I'm going to imprint some of the money with:
[size=4][b]In Goddess We Trust[/b][/size][/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Look, I am Australian but I'm gonna stick my opinion in here anyway. And that is profoundly stupid of you to say that. As Dan pointed out, that kind of behaviour and attitude is quite the opposite of what Christians supposedly stand for. And if you were any more than some lamer trying to stir up controversy, you'd know that Separation of Church and State is guaranteed somewhere in your constitution. Which is why there is a furor over having "In God We Trust" on your currency. Or anywhere else. Also, not everyone believes in your "God". In fact, it seems the only people who want to make a lot of noise are the Christians themselves. Do you really need to have "In God We Trust" on your money? In the Court of Law? For some people, pledging on God means nothing. What most people would be happy with is a secular society with a religious underculture. Religion is something uniquely private...it has no place in Law, Schools or anywhere outside of Church and Home. Live and let live, "Christian".

[quote name='gendou ikari']Every man believes in God deep down in his heart ,or they would not replace Him with images of man made creations, or supress him within their soul... That is why we go to hell. Because it is inexusable to reject God and the US is trying to remind the people.[/quote]

Hah. Let me guess, you're Christian? If so, then you probably are not old enough to have never believed in him. Meaning you have believed in him all your life. Right? Anyway, if that is so then how could you possibly know what others feel? You made a statement based entirely on your religious conviction...which is impossible because you don't know what "non-believers" feel. Do you? It is like a Nazi guard saying that the Jews didn't really feel that bad...how would he know? Only the Jews know how bad they feel. I can't stand here and say that you're wrong. I can stand here and say that you are wrong because I don't have any need for a God, though. I feel no need for any type of assurance of purpose, or deliverance. I am happy to live. I don't need God. So, you aren't 100% correct, at least. And you implied that you were. Only a believer would be able to say that "all men need God" because the believer needs God to be complete. Non-believers don't. You are biased, and can not truthfully make all encompassing statements like that.

Basically, you're wrong.[/size][/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE=Dan L]By no means does this mean you should instantly get rid of the phrase on the coins, and nor does it mean that that is the conclusion that should be come to in the end. What it means is that you should pay attention to what others have to say a little more often. In fact, if Christians did this as a whole, then maybe the 14% wouldn't have that much of an issue with Trusting in God, because hey, the guys who follow him aren't that bad.
[/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]At one point in time you said that you would be my "nemesis". I never replied, mainly because even though our belief structure is different we both seem to have this common stance of understanding and respecting other people's opinions.

The statement you just made rings true to my ears. There is a minority of Christians that make Christianity look bad, just like there is a minority of Jews, of Muslims and of Buddhists that make there religions look bad. Unfortunately this minority tends too often to be mistaken for the majority. Religion doesn't pervert people, people pervert religion.

On to the whole "In God We Trust" issue. Personally I don't care if it is erased from American culture because I feel that if you truly trust in God or a god then a reminder on a coin is not necessary.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Heaven's Cloud][color=indigo]At one point in time you said that you would be my "nemesis". I never replied, mainly because even though our belief structure is different we both seem to have this common stance of understanding and respecting other people's opinions.

.[/color][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]I don't know if I'm going to get in trouble for spam or not, but I think we really need more people like HEaven's Cloud and Dan L.

O.k., that sounds strange, but look at it this way, if more people with differing opinions could learn to understand eachother we'd have one hell of a more peaceful existance.

I don't care too much about the whole 'One Nation under God' part in the pledge because it's been in there for so long (well, over 50 years I guess, so to me that's a while). As long as nobody is forcing their beliefs on me, I'm cool with that person especiallyif they don't mind me not saying the under God part in the Pledge of alligiance since it's not part of my belief.

Okay, now I think I've made some sense. I'm off to watch the news and Jay Leno.[/color]

[BlueGender]

[size=1][color=navy]I for one believe in god, thats me but I belive god should be taken out of the pledge. The pledge is something which is taught in kindegarten when children can not even comprehend what they are saying, I did not learn what I was saying until the 8th grade and now I refuse to stand during the pledge not because of the god part but because I refuse to pledge allegience to a country that goes to war without even so much as asking the everyday peoples opinion. I love america I wouldnt live anywhere else...well maybe canada but still I excersise my right to have my opinion and express it as long as it doesnt hurt anyone. I believe since america is everyday becoming more diverse it should be taken out to accomidate everybody.God should be seperated from Church and State, doesnt state include school? As for In god we trust being take on money I really dont care, it doesnt affect it being worth anymore or less so if people get offended i say take it of to make everyone happy. [/size][/color]

[Transtic Nerve]

[QUOTE=zantoff]It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

What do you think? :wigout: :flaming:[/QUOTE]

Caiuse the majority of that 86% is more mature and definitely smarter than you.... so is the 14% but we won't go into that.

I didn't know there was a mess about this? There was a few media things which kind ablew the thing out of proportion. But anyway, to tell you why there was this mess is because the USA is supposedly a country which contains a freedom of religion and a seperation of church and state and by putting God, which obviously is a Christian connotation, on to something sponsored by the government goes against the seperation of church and state. Not only that, if I didn't believe in God, why would I want to say Under God in a pledge. Thats just silly. I honestly don't care much about the money thing, as long as it says how much it is, I wouldn't care if it said In Satan We Trust.

Just for the record, I never said the Pledge of Allegiance anyway, I found it to be a horrible waste of time. My teacher used to make us say it, which i still didn't, but by law teachers can't make students say the Pledge.

On another side note, for once I'd like you people who seem to have this "sit down and shut up" policy put yourself in the other person's shoes. Put yourself into the 14%. What is only 14% of Americans believed in God? What is the other 86% told you to sit down and shut up.... how would you feel then? Yeah... probably not too good. Probably a little angry.... probably wanting to get your voice heard... Its one thing to believe something, which is personal to you, but to force others to conform to your beliefs is not something that should happen.

[TheShinje]

[size=1]Personally, I couldn't care less wether the phrase was taken off the currrency. [/size]

[font=Verdana][size=1]As a christian, it's not my duty to make sure a few words remain on a note of monetary value.[/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1][/size][/font]
[font=Verdana][size=1]And besides, I'm not American, and the prhase isn't on our money over here.[/size][/font]

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comics sans ms]*Sighs* Look, the phrase is one the money out of respect for the people on the money, who all believed in God. It's not whether [i]you[/i] trust in God, it's that [i]they[/i] did. Is it that bad to show such respect to the beliefs of the founders and great men of the country?

This has got to be the most stupid non-issue we, as a nation, have ever come up with.[/color][/font][/size]

[Nomad]

Ok. First of all, I have chosen not to have (or choose) a religion, therefore, I do not believe in God. In the Pledge where it says "..and one nation under God..", I don't want that removed. I don't want anything removed, simply because I have respect for those who [I]do[/I] believe in God, and want to show it. I stand for the Pledge in respect for the Nation, but I choose not to say it. For those who believe, I don't want them to have to remove any public indication of belief, or remove something that has been seen, publicly, for many years (i.e.; on the dollar and on coins).

This debate is just pointless ramblings to stir up controversy in our Nation. The 14% has their own opinions and should be able to express them freely without trouble or whatever. The 86% also should be able to express their opinions. But the two shouldn't have to have a debate on whether or not to have "In God We Trust" on our money. In all actuallity, I don't care what's on our money as long as I can spend it..... heh.


[quote name='gendou ikari']Every man believes in God deep down in his heart ,or they would not replace Him with images of man made creations, or supress him within their soul... That is why we go to hell. Because it is inexusable to reject God and the US is trying to remind the people.[/quote]
.............ok. If not believing in God, or rejecting God as my Lord and leader, will send me to hell, then I guess I'll see the other 14% there. But belief is an opinion of what you have been brought up to, and happenings that have inspired you to find your own religion that you feels fits you the best. But saying that those who 'reject' God will goto hell is your opinion which I feel is wrong. But then again, that's your opinion, and no one can change that.

Sorry about the semi-long post, hadn't realized how carried away I had gotten. heh.

[Guest cloricus]

Zantoff; if 86% of America told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?

Gendou; sit down, grow up and don't believe everything your mummy and daddy tell you. Okay? ...But just to beat the message home...
"Every man believes in God deep down in his heart"
No they don't and what about females?
"Would not replace Him with images of man made creations"
What creations, I don't believe in god and I have no replacement for "it". I'm just not weak in that way, I don't need to come home and cry to something I think is there to help me.
"Suppress him within their soul"
I do not have a 'soul', that is a creation of your religion.
"That is why we go to hell"
You do not even know what hell is, you think it is some fire and brimstone place when if you really sat down and thought about it and researched it you would find that this is far from the truth. Besides we live in the modern world were we understand how the body works and a place known as 'hell' cannot exist as a soul cannot 'feel' as that is something your nervous system does.
"Because it is inexcusable to reject God"
Who says? If he exists how do you know if he cares, or has the capacity to care?
"The US is trying to remind the people"
And you wonder why the Muslim population of the world is pissed off at you. :P

Get a life.

[TheShinje]

Cloricus, I find this "hell isn't fire and brimstone" thing quite interesting, elaborate, please?

That wasn't meant to sound condescending, I'm genuinely curious.

"Besides we live in the modern world were we understand how the body works and a place known as 'hell' cannot exist as a soul cannot 'feel' as that is something your nervous system does."

So you have heard. But what if the nervous system is an outward manifestation of you inner soul? Perhaps it is the bodily reactions that having a soul brings.

It's another solution, anyway.

[Innotech]

there are both good and bad sides to this. While I myselfbleieve that not following God will probably end in Hell, Im not going to tell someone that they are going there. Simply put, true christians DO NOT consider themselves fit to judge other people based on religion. All of us are sinners, and a sinner calling another person evil is like pot calling hte kettle black. However, based on the principles of equality it woud deeply scare me if for example a satanist message would be allowed on US currency instead, which would no doubt make more people happy but according to my bliefs Id be scared of god getting angry at my country for rejecting him. So it really goes both ways. You should let people believe what they want, but only so long as its not forcing you to bleieve something. I do not see anything wrong with the word God in the pledge or money. If you dont bleieve, just pretend it isnt there. Ignorance is bliss policy. Idl ike to finally add, the way I see it, if a Christian like myself who strongly belives in God ends up being wrong at the end of life, all we lose is our belief. however, if as I bleieve, God DOES exist, and osmeone lived their life not accepting Him, then obviously there is a very real crisis there when they die. Thats one reason I am Christian, but not nearly the only one. If I am wrong, I lose nothing really, but if nonbelievers are wrong, there is literally Hell to pay. Just my 2 cents.

[Dan L]

[quote name='Innotech']there are both good and bad sides to this. While I myselfbleieve that not following God will probably end in Hell, Im not going to tell someone that they are going there. Simply put, true christians DO NOT consider themselves fit to judge other people based on religion. All of us are sinners, and a sinner calling another person evil is like pot calling hte kettle black.[/quote]

It depends what you mean by judgement.

On one hand, we are all sinners, and thus the statement "we all deserve hell" is true. Given that heaven is where those go who are worthy of being accepted into God's kingdom will go, and hell is just where all will go who don't get in.

On our own effort, there is no man who by his own efforts is worthy of getting into heaven, thus he is only worthy of hell. Even the non-believers must understand that if you hold perfection as the standard, then nobody is able to reach it in an imperfect world like this one. (Regardless of whether you believe that hell is a real place)

So essentially the truth is that if we were all judged by what we're worth, we'd all go to hell, on the grounds that we were far less than perfect.

Christianity is a bit like a bypass- Jesus lived a perfect life and we get that accredited to ourselves, so in essence all our shortcomings are ignored when we come to be judged. It's not fair, and it's not just. The command that comes with it, though, is to be similarly gracious:

As I said, no-one is really worthy of heaven as we are now. Including us Christians. So if we really believe that that's where we're going, and that we've been completely forgiven and forgotten of our sins, then it is a miniscule requirement of us to forgive the sins of others and to be loving. They are only "going to hell" in so much that they are just as imperfect as we are, and just as unworthy of heaven as we are, but we believe that Jesus covered that in us, and that he [i]can[/i] cover that in them. Hence there's our motivation for evangelism.

The only problem is that we have the motivation but the majority of us do it so badly in cliche Christian style, that most of our victims don't want any part in the deal whatsoever. And we completely look over the issue of forgiving and loving others to the point that the church has degraded into a holier-than-thou, elitist and exclusive institution, a lot of the time even when it tries not to be.

And really, the only solution to it all is love. Love your neighbour, love your enemies. Take the log out of your own eye before you pay the slighest attention to the speck in your neighbour's. I.e. sort your own life out, and judge your own sins, and stick to the standards which you set yourself, before you go judging and imposing those standards on others. And even then, simply do not judge.

If the church as a whole wasn't so hung up about things like keeping seperate from the world (which we interpret to mean "make your own safe little haven" rather than "live differently") and the sins of unbelievers (There were no real "believers" before Jesus died, in the sense that there are today, and yet he forgave everyone), then the church would be a lot more effective at bringing people in. And the reason for that would be.. hell, it would be a much nicer place to go to , and unbelievers might actually want to go there without fear of being condemned.

Phillip Yancey said it nicely in a story about a prostitute. Someone suggested to her "why not go to the local church for help" and she replied "what?.. and feel even worse about myself". The church has kind of lost the touch it once had with those "sinful men and women" which we often forget we once were, and still are.

Of course, this is packed full of generalisations, which on the whole are true (some parts are more applicable to less churches than others) but there are exceptions, but the few exceptions that there are at the moment do little to lift the negative attitude towards church as a whole.

And err.. as usual- what I went on about at the end of this post may be unrelated to what I started off at. If I seem to have just preached at you and you think I'm having a dig, don't worry; I'm not.

EDIT: HC, Did I really say I was going to be your nemesis?! When was that!? (note: I'm not denying I ever did, I just seriously don't remember saying that, it may have been years ago or something :p)

[Skye]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]Well, as a soon to be parent I think that telling someone to Sit down and Shut up is considered rather rude and inconsiderate of others feelings. If you were in the minority's position I doubt you'd feel the same way.

The reason there's such a big to do is because even the 86% that believe in God can't decide on what the right way is to Worship Him/Her (Yes, I said her, and I'll get to that too) Heck, even the people who worship in the same church in the same denomination can't decide which way of worship is correct. :wigout:

I think that people should stop being so shallow brained about others beliefs. There are other religions besides those based on a single diety. Some people even believe that God is a woman. :D

I have to wonder about the whole poll or whatever that determined that 86% of Americans believe in God. Did they specify that they believe in a Christian God or was it on a broader spectrum of believing in God? I'm asking this because although I believe in a God, I don't beleive in the Christian verson of God. So this theory is flawed.

Of topic: when I become president, I'm going to imprint some of the money with:
[size=4][b]In Goddess We Trust[/b][/size][/color][/QUOTE]
Your gonna be a mom? Cooly! Goddes Bless, babe!

In Goddess We Trust... hmm.... well, being a Witch, that is kinda neat to hear, really. I prefer to say In El We trust, Meaning In Deity We Trsut, cause I don't like to go into explination. Yuo people are kinda confuzzling, actually.

About the Hell thing: Well, I like how Dan put it, but I also agree with what my Onechan said. "Those who don't know what Heaven is have no right to tell others to go to Hell."

:: opens mouth:: I'm rambling...

[quote name='gendou ikari']Every man believes in God deep down in his heart ,or they would not replace Him with images of man made creations, or supress him within their soul... That is why we go to hell. Because it is inexusable to reject God and the US is trying to remind the people.[/quote]

::snorts:: Who says? Sorry, but thats kinda... judgemental. Not everyone is Christian, so not everyone believes in God. Heck, my Dad's agnostic! My mom is a Witch, and... she gets mad at some Christians. 'THose Christians killed my Jesus!' LOL Rambling... (Skye has had coffee. Skye is hyper. Skye will now shut up and go watch TV.)

[Justin]

"Religion doesn't pervert people, people pervert religion" Wonderful quote. Hope you don't mind me using it.

The originator of this topic is right--sort of. 86%(or some percentage close to that) do recognize the existance of some form of higher power. Not neccessarily Jehovah as He is represented in the Bible.

I must admit, though, I am not impressed by this topic's opening. Asking others to "Sit down and shut up" is ridiculus. You know, the Roman empire asked we Christians to sit down and shut up, too, guy. Fortunately, we didn't. And a lot of
anointed men died for their faith. So how much better than those Romans are you now, telling others to be quiet? Be careful with your words; they are like swords.

Why have "In God We Trust" on our money? Well, because those who trust God with their money are blessed for it. That's one of the points of paying tithes. Will removing it have an effect? Yes. Will it have an effect on my faith? No.

As far as God in America goes: When it comes to God, America is a prostitute. Enough said there, I think.

I think Dan summed it up best: "Do to others, as you would have them do to you."

The grace of the Lord be with you all,
-Justin

[HOTpage2004]

I think it would do the country good if we told the other Athiests to shut up. This land was made under God and thats how it should be. With the debate on taking the ' One Nation Under God' out of our pledge than it would be the 'In God we Trust' out of the money and I dont even want think of what else. We beleive God is the one taking care of us, and if we turn our backs on him, what ifluence would that be on other countries, cause I know some countries look up to us as a leader. They admire us, and taking any kind out God out of anything of ours would just be wrong. So yeah, tell the other 14% to Shut the he** up!

[Bio]

[color=Sienna][font=Tahoma](edited thanks to Heaven's Cloud. Seriously, I haven't laughed so hard in a while, especially at myself. XD)

*facepalm*

Saying that America was created 'under God' is an arguable topic. The US is supposed to be the [b]land of the free[/b], not the land of the Christians. There is no logical explination to anyone who thinks of people who believe in different things as lesser or second-class citizens. And I know for a fact that the Christian God does not tell you to spite other religions or beliefs, not unless its some pretty messed-up branch.

I honestly think that 'In God We Trust' should be taken off the dollar bill, and so should every other descreet symbology such as the masonic all-seeing eye. Why? Because not everyone believes in the same thing. You can't assume it's okay to put your religion on currency, because in this world, people [i]will[/i] get mad, and they will definitely [i]not[/i] sit down and shut up. You say the US was created under God because it says so in the pledge? Well, that's another thing that needs to be edited if we want to be the truely free country we're always saying we are.

Also, *points to the second post* America has no right to tell people what religion to have, or to remind people about a certain deity. This isn't the middle ages.

*points to post above him* What the hell? Were have you been? America is one of the most hated countries in the world. Do you watch TV? Do you read the newspaper? We're big, sure. We're powerful, sure. But we're like the hyperactive social worker. We'll help people that don't want to be helped, and we stick our nose where it shouldn't be. I'd imagine it's annoying.
[/font][/color]

[Skye]

[QUOTE=Bio][color=Sienna][font=Tahoma]*facepalm*

This is rediculous. If this forum were mine, I'd ban the people that blatantly told other people to 'sit down and shut up' because of what they do or don't believe in. Saying that America was created 'under God' is another arguable topic. The US is supposed to be the [b]land of the free[/b], not the land of the Christians. There is no logical explination to anyone who thinks of people who believe in different things as lesser or second-class citizens. And I know for a fact that the Christian God does not tell you to spite other religions or beliefs, not unless its some pretty messed-up branch.

I honestly think that 'In God We Trust' should be taken off the dollar bill, and so should every other descreet symbology such as the masonic all-seeing eye. Why? Because not everyone believes in the same thing. You can't assume it's okay to put your religion on currency, because in this world, people [i]will[/i] get mad, and they will definitely [i]not[/i] sit down and shut up. You say the US was created under God because it says so in the pledge? Well, that's another thing that needs to be edited if we want to be the truely free country we're always saying we are.

Also, *points to the second post* America has no right to tell people what religion to have, or to remind people about a certain deity. This isn't the middle ages.

*points to post above him* What the hell? Were have you been? America is one of the most hated countries in the world. Do you watch TV? Do you read the newspaper? We're big, sure. We're powerful, sure. But we're like the hyperactive social worker. We'll help people that don't want to be helped, and we stick our nose where it shouldn't be. I'd imagine it's annoying.
[/font][/color][/QUOTE]
Wow. Dang. Okay. ::takes deep breath::

About the thing above us(not Bios, the other guys): Whos we? Dude, you may be Cristian, but not everyone is! Technically, we should be telling you guys to sit down and shut up! But are we- Sorry, I'm rambling. I hate it when people judge others by what they believe in!

[quote]I think it would do the country good if we told the other Athiests to shut up. This land was made under God and thats how it should be. With the debate on taking the ' One Nation Under God' out of our pledge than it would be the 'In God we Trust' out of the money and I dont even want think of what else. We beleive God is the one taking care of us, and if we turn our backs on him, what ifluence would that be on other countries, cause I know some countries look up to us as a leader. They admire us, and taking any kind out God out of anything of ours would just be wrong. So yeah, tell the other 14% to Shut the he** up![/quote]

Like I said, whos we? And who says were turning our backs? I mean, I'm not exactly sure what diety I believe in, but I think they are all teh same thing. SO, called God, Artemis, Luna, Aphrodite, or Alah, or even nothing at all, I don't think the gods really care. I mean, if they had wanted us to keep them in here, they wouldn't have given us a chance to take them out. After all, they have the power to destroy Heaven, hell, in between, Summerlands, everywhere if they want, so whats the point in fighting about it?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='HOTpage2004']I think it would do the country good if we told the other Athiests to shut up. This land was made under God and thats how it should be. With the debate on taking the ' One Nation Under God' out of our pledge than it would be the 'In God we Trust' out of the money and I dont even want think of what else. We beleive God is the one taking care of us, and if we turn our backs on him, what ifluence would that be on other countries, cause I know some countries look up to us as a leader. They admire us, and taking any kind out God out of anything of ours would just be wrong. So yeah, tell the other 14% to Shut the he** up![/quote]

[color=darkviolet]I'm too damn tired to space everything out from your post, so I'll say this first then add the rest:
My kids will be the ones beating up your kids on the playground. :D

NOw that that's over I'd like to speak as one of the semi 14% since you seem to be under the influence that this country is made up soley of Christians.

This land was not made 'under God' or for that matter Gods or Goddesses just so everything is PC. It was made for the people by the people and nothing about religion. Infact the founding fathers made sure of that by separating church and state from the country so nobody's religious freedoms or lack of religion could be invaded upon.

With the topic of the pledge and the money with God on it, I don't have much of an opinion either way. During a military function my husband and I usually skip over that part in the pledge and stay silent out of respect for others beliefs when there is a prayer done before something. Mayhap you should take that into consideration and show respect for people who think differently than yourself.

'We' don't all believe that God is there taking care of us. Some feel that there is no God, or proof a God or gods/goddesses can not be proven. And if you follow a Dianic tradition of Wicca (correct me if I'm wrong on this because I'm ecclectic and new to this) you'd rather have a Goddess anyway (going by the story of Diana and Actean). Some believe that they take care of themselve day to day without teh help of a diety. Turning 'our' backs on Him/Her in that case would do nothing to a person who doesn't believe as you do.

Also, I don't know where you get that many countries admire us becuase of our religion or whatever. Many middle eastern nations feel that we are infedels, France and Gremany don't care for us right now. Infact many citizens of America are angry that our president is such a bully and planned out the Iraq invasion two weeks prior (or past my memory is going) 9/11. If we're admired so much, why do so many Iraqis chant go home 'America!'? Maybe you should watch the news once in a while.

Maybe you should try to place yourself in the shoes of the other 14% and think of how you'd like to be told to sit down and shut up because your beliefs weren't the majority of the population. When the Roman Empire wanted the Christians to shut up they didn't, so why should the ruling majority of this era suddenly decide to be a one religion state and make everyone else believe or die? Nobody wanted to back then and nobody should now.

As CallMeGoddess put so beautifully in her post:[size=3] in El we trust[/size]
And I'm bringing back a favorite quote of my own: [size=3]Freedom of religion means freedom of [u][b]ALL[/b][/u] religions.[/size][/color]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE=Bio][color=Sienna][font=Tahoma]*facepalm*

This is rediculous. If this forum were mine, I'd ban the people that blatantly told other people to 'sit down and shut up' because of what they do or don't believe in. Saying that America was created 'under God' is another arguable topic. The US is supposed to be the [b]land of the free[/b], not the land of the Christians.
[/font][/color][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]The ironing is delicious. I know this is probably bordering on spam, but I couldn't resist. Hypocritical, I think so. To paraphrase "The US is supposed to be the [b]LAND OF THE FREE[/b] and if you disagree I will [b]BAN YOU[/b]".

[i]by the way I know that isn't what you meant but it is sure how your paragraph reads :p...[/i][/color]

[Dan L]

[quote name='HOTpage2004']I think it would do the country good if we told the other Athiests to shut up. This land was made under God and thats how it should be. With the debate on taking the ' One Nation Under God' out of our pledge than it would be the 'In God we Trust' out of the money and I dont even want think of what else. We beleive God is the one taking care of us, and if we turn our backs on him, what ifluence would that be on other countries, cause I know some countries look up to us as a leader. They admire us, and taking any kind out God out of anything of ours would just be wrong. So yeah, tell the other 14% to Shut the he** up![/quote]

You believe that God takes care of those who claim to believe in him and then tell their neighbours to shut the hell up? Even if you consider them your enemies, Jesus commanded us to love our enemies too.

Maybe your argument would be more convincing if there was some degree of integrity in it.

Consider this a rebuke.

[Arasoi]

[quote name='HOTpage2004']I think it would do the country good if we told the other Athiests to shut up. This land was made under God and thats how it should be. With the debate on taking the ' One Nation Under God' out of our pledge than it would be the 'In God we Trust' out of the money and I dont even want think of what else. We beleive God is the one taking care of us, and if we turn our backs on him, what ifluence would that be on other countries, cause I know some countries look up to us as a leader. They admire us, and taking any kind out God out of anything of ours would just be wrong. So yeah, tell the other 14% to Shut the he** up![/quote][color=darkslateblue]Your religious ignorance is astounding. Since I'm questioning my religion at the moment, I cannot help but comment. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean that your religion is the only one that matters. Times change, and this country was founded in a time when Christianity was considered to be, for the most part, the dominant religion. However, that is no longer true for this country. [/color]

[color=darkslateblue]Now we call ourselves "the land of the free." However, how can this be possible if the pledge, which all students at the very least have to stand for, contains the phrase "under God"? I know there are others who share in my opinion when I say that I'm very uncomfortable to have to listen to and recite most of a speech swearing to a deity I'm not sure I believe in every morning. Couldn't it be revised to be more open to everyone? I don't care quite as much about the "In God we trust" on the money, because I don't notice it, but it's still there in this no longer predominately Christian country.[/color]

[color=darkslateblue]Have you also considered that those opposing the aforementioned sayings are not just atheists? What about Wiccans? They don't believe in the Christian God, so why would they want those sayings either? There are numerous other religions that could be against the "In God we trust" on money and the "under God" in the pledge.[/color]

[color=#483d8b]Who are you talking about when you say "[i]we [/i]believe God is taking care of us?" Take a note: generalization is bad. You're referring to yourself and anyone else who that would apply to, not the entire country. Not everyone believes that God is taking care of us. [color=#483d8b]And, might I add, that you're being a hypocrite in your religion by saying "Shut the he** up?" Even with the censoring asterisks there, saying that is using hell in the context of a swear, which is going against what is written in the Bible.[/color][/color]

[color=darkslateblue]What does taking out God have to do with other countries admiring us? First off, I'm not quite sure what countries you're talking about, seeing how I can't think of any particular examples of countries that admire us. More to the point, however, I don't believe these countries of which you speak admire us because we have "In God we trust" printed on our money. Do you really think that if we took that off, other countries would stop admiring us? Goodness. Countries wouldn't admire us just because we believe in God. If that were the case, then every country in the world would be assaulting France with gifts of candy and roses.[/color]