Anime Hating anime....

[eleanor]

[color=firebrick] I wouldn't say it out loud, but Jesus Christ, if the only Japanimation I saw were dubbed Pokemon and DBZ shows, I would secretly think anime was a load of crap, too. Fortunately, I didn't. *shrugs*

The point? Who cares? They're not going to go away. You can't [b]MAKE[/b] them go away. They'll [b]PERSIST[/b] if you make them try and go away. I-G-N-O-R-E T-H-E-M. Wow. What a concept.

Ok, on to other subjects.

I love some American cartoons more than most anime, [even the most dedicated otakus will learn that 99% of anime is bad as it is sooner or later], like Invader Zim and Family Guy and such. There's such a huge discrimination against American cartoons by anime fans because they think they're crappily made and have stupid plotlines [cough] and the moment they see an expression related to anime they go ballistic and start some stupid petition or whatever. American cartoons are actually usually better quality, too. *coughcough*TEENTITANS*coughcough*

[i]I don't hate anime, but I dislike a LOT of it. Why? simply because they aren't very original or full of a lot of depth. Sure you have your wierd and orignal series like NGE but then you have your simple, fun but stupid shows like Fist of the North star or Kenjitsu Zan or something. Sadly one FAR outweighs the other. It seems many series don't put a lot of effort into it or suffer from predictable stories. But there are some true gems that push to border and make you go 'wow'. Look at Vampire Hunter D and VHD: Bloodlust both follow the amazingly dark novels well and keep the complexity of the character. Or the Wings of Hommenase, Roujin Z, Princess Mononoke etc. These are the things that keep me hooked, looking at these things I see that Japanese Animation is much like live-action filmaking as it is a true artform that can capture the imagination and hearts of people rather than just try to make them laugh or decide which super hot chick the geeky kid chooses or something.[/i]

^ SO true. Even thought anime import is slow, America only gets anime that was popular or at least semi-popular [something just plain stupid] in Japan or Korea or some other place. Can you guess what the other 95% of anime is like? Dull, stupid, things like HAMTARO/SD GUNDAM/FFU. Don't get me wrong, I adore some anime, but I also hate people who think all anime is supreme.[/color]

[Guest gendou ikari]

Teen Titans? Please.In my opinion it's a stupid cartoon with very little plot, it was only made so that people would start liking it as much as an anime, just because its drawn like one(keep in mind that was in MY opinion) American cartoons may be cleaner, but not enough thought goes into them. And current american cartoons are really the ones im talking about, they are clearly TRYING to imitate anime, but doing a pathedic job of it.Anime may owe it to American cartoons but who do recent american cartoons owe it to? Thats right, anime. Anime is also like a movie. Is there ANY american cartoon that has made you cry? Probabaly not. I can remember crying in Trigun when [spoiler]wolfwood died,[/spoiler] what kind of cartoon can make you do that?

[COLOR=Navy]gendou, you could potentially have ruined Trigun for a member who didn't know about that particular plot twist. Next time be sure to use spoiler tags, which can be created simply by typing [spoiler*]text[/spoiler], but without the asterisk.

~Dagger~[/COLOR]

[Ninjaman]

I think the main reason people usually mention Pokemon or DBZ when they see anime is because those two are, like, the most franchised shows. I love anime and my friends know it. Sure they're like "Is that Pokemon?" when they see anime, but really, they don't annoy me when they're like that. I feel sorry for them really, because they really don't know about the greater anime that's out there. Believe me, I think if they knew about other anime shows, they'd love anime also.

But really, now, I love American cartoons as much as I love anime. American cartoons usually fit for the "kid" inside of me and usually give me humor, but there are cartoons that had stories that I found really good and loved the animation like Treasure Planet or Tarzan. American cartoons I enjoy watching include Teen Titans, Xiaolin Showdown, Family Guy, Simpsons, and so forth. American cartoons and anime are different yes, but when you think about it, they balance out. Sorry, I'm not really good explaining. ^^;; Both of them have their pros and cons. Some were already explained.

[quote name='gendou ikari']American cartoons may be cleaner, but not enough thought goes into them. [/quote]

Sorry if I sound rude, but what exactly do you mean by "not enough thought" goes into them?

[quote name='gendou ikari']Is there ANY american cartoon that has made you cry? Probabaly not.[/quote]

I wouldn't exactly say cried. I know some friends of mine that cried at movies like say Bambi. I know I got a lil teary eyed when I saw Once Upon a Forest, but I was a kid then. I don't cry at shows, I just get teary eyed. The only anime I got teary eyed so far was at the ending of Digimon Season 3.

[Guest gendou ikari]

What I mean by not enough thought is simple, it's not well planned, it sort of repeats.

[Kyokokeiji]

[quote name='gendou ikari']WHy? Why must people hate my god sent hobby? Today at school I was talking to my friend about Azumanga Daioh at lunch time, and one of the students across from me rudely asked "Is that some of that Japanese crap?" I wanted to punch him, it sure as hell is better than american cartoons, thats for sure, and it's definatley better than the crap on the big screen, so why the hate? Why the controversy? I cannot understand it, my only guess is that the only anime they have ever seen is the kiddy ones on CN (still edited like mess). WHy would anyone want to hate this?*holds up evangelion DVD* Oh? you don't like that? Well... How bout this! *starts throwing random manga's at anime hater* please, some one answer my call, tell me your stories as well. Thank you for your precious time, and Dzey Jenn! Dzey Jenn to you all![/quote]

If that person was rde enough to say that then something must be wrong with them. But its not always fun to hear people talking about anime 24/7 trust me i know. im a big anime fan but i have a friend who only talks about anime. ou shouldnt take a whole lot of of offense to it because anime shouldnt be your life

I actually resent your comments about american cartonns and movies. I happen to enjoy some american cartoons, very much so. And It just so happens that i like going to american cartoon movies. By you complaining about what the person said about naime, then you calling american cartoons and that stuff on the big screen crap, your being a hipicrite. my advice:calm down, its just a rude person who was probly annoyed about only hearing about differetn animes.

Oh I also feel I have to add this:

Azumanga Diaoh ROX!
(thats how u spell it right? :p )

[r2vq]

[quote name='gendou ikari']And current american cartoons are really the ones im talking about, they are clearly TRYING to imitate anime, but doing a pathedic job of it.Anime may owe it to American cartoons but who do recent american cartoons owe it to? Thats right, anime. Anime is also like a movie. Is there ANY american cartoon that has made you cry?[/quote]

There are lots of American cartoons that are imitating Anime. For example, Martin Mysteries and Totally Spies. These shows definately have the "anime" look to them, but have no plot unless corny or stereotypical. I call those Americanime. I totally dispise them. They make me cry XD JK. No, they make me want to kick the TV in.

But just like others shouldn't judge Japnimation on its worst subjects one should judge American cartoons on its worst subjects.

There are good cartoons out there for whatever you like. Thought-out and also intelligent and drawn well.

You want brooding, dark and scary? Nobody does a better job than [b]Spawn[/b].
You want great plot, thought out, and innovative? The new [b]Spider-man[/b] is a new one that does that well.
Something not repetitive, and fun to watch? [b]King of the Hill[/b] and other satirical shows, like those done by Matt Groening, are good at that.

There are movies that are great, like Toy Story and An American Tale (though I liked the second one better). I really liked Mighty Mouse... I wonder if I can find my old tapes for that...

And in anime there are cartoons there are [i]not[/i] thought-out well, [i]not[/i] creative, [i]not[/i] intelligent and [i]not[/i] many things that make a good story.

Everything has it's up and down. You have to judge things for themselves and what they are on their own. Don't judge them because of what country they came from.

-ArV

Edit: As for a cartoon that made me cry? Rugrats in Paris had a scene where Chuckie is [spoiler]missing the mother son dance because his mom died.[/spoiler] That was really sad.

[REVENGE2]

Major difference between anime and American cartoons:

On average, Anime uses nearly twice as many cells per episode as American cartoons, leading to a better flow (look at magical spells weaved by Sakura in [i]Card Captor Sakura[/i], as compared to magical spells weved by Raven in [i]Teen Titans[/i]). Despite this, animes usually have a lower budget then American cartoons, so to make up for this, Anime writers do a lot more character developement.

Apart from that, there's no real difference on a larger scale. You have to take things on a case-by-case basis.

Finally...say American animation sucks all you want, but I have yet to see a peice of animation better then the ballroom dance in the first [i]Beauty and the Beast[/i], or indeed, any animated work that can compare to that.

[i]Beauty and the Beast[/i] wasn't rushed, wasn't forced, wasn't anything like that. Everything in it was perfectly timed. Disney's Magnum Opus.

Speaking of which, you think anime was just suddenly created? No. All the older anime artists - the ones that worked on [i]Gundum, Sailor Moon,[/i] and other such titles, learned their drawning skills from books like [i]How to Draw the Marvel Way[/i]. DC Comics, Marvel Comics, and Disney all profoundly influenced anime. Look at [i]Beauty and the Beast[/i]. If one was to change the drawing style only a little - bigger eyes, for the most part - you'd have an anime.

And anime has low, bad cartoons as well. Have to SEEN [i]Dragonball Z Movie 12: The Rebirth of Fusion! Goku and Vegeta![/i]

That is 53 minutes and 47 seconds of my life that I DEMAND back from Akira Toriyama.

After watching that, any American cartoon looks like a masterpeice. That movie should be illegal.

[Shiguru]

[QUOTE]Teen Titans? Please.In my opinion it's a stupid cartoon with very little plot, it was only made so that people would start liking it as much as an anime, just because its drawn like one(keep in mind that was in MY opinion) American cartoons may be cleaner, but not enough thought goes into them. And current american cartoons are really the ones im talking about, they are clearly TRYING to imitate anime, but doing a pathedic job of it.Anime may owe it to American cartoons but who do recent american cartoons owe it to? Thats right, anime. Anime is also like a movie. Is there ANY american cartoon that has made you cry? Probabaly not. I can remember crying in Trigun when wolfwood died, what kind of cartoon can make you do that?[/QUOTE]

First off, Teen Titans was a comic book made in the 70's and just had a recent revamp with Geoff Johns. Now, the cartoon was released because:

1) DC comic cartoons have done well (because they are cool, and quality for the most part. The last season of Superman and the team-ups in Superman/Batman don't count.) in the past and kids are already hooked.

2) To get new fans for the Titans, sure they had to mess up continuity by making sure nobody knows which Robin it is (It can't be Tim, Dick was the one who boned starfire, and he was the martial artist. Tim is more tactical, they combined them into just a generic Robin.) but they made cool stories and made one of DC's coolest villans show up again (Deathstroke, or Slade in the cartoon.)

Now the cartoon is done in an anime style to get to the children, the same demographic DBZ and Poke'mon are for. It was a marketing decision that worked out well as Teen Titans has a large fan following to my knowledge. It is a quality 'toon overall. Not the cool, dark, and kick-*** rendition of Batman in TAS but good.

As for crying lets go ask a bunch of people who saw Bambi when it first came out and see how many cried when Bambi's mum got capped (I refuse to put spoilers on that. The movie is over 20 years old and a classic, thus the majority must have seen it.) Other disney movies have had the same kind of thing the Lion King must have made some cry, and Beauty and the Beast (Which IS an magnum opus for Disney. and an excellent film on several levels before they went for the simple style seen in newer films) must have brought out emotion in others.

I like both, but so far American Cartoons like the awesome Dexter's Lab or the obviously anime inspired, but really funny Samurai Jack have really caught my attention. They are original and done with a distinct style that is diffrent from anime yet it ows much of it's existance to it.


BTW: It was a joke about canadian cartoons, and most of those you named are American creations... I dunno about Reboot though (it was a cool series though. Bob was a cool guy.)

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=NeoNabishen]Most Humans are naturally STUPID. That answer your question?


dont let it get you down. :)[/QUOTE]

That's a lovely sentiment. Unfortunately, your post is way too short and uninspired to count as anything but spam, most of which will promptly be deleted. This thread is packed with detailed, intelligently written replies (well..... sort of -_-); you should peruse a few of these and thereby learn to identify the kind of quality we're looking for.

If you have any questions, please start off by reading OtakuBoards' rules. Once you've done that, feel free to PM me or one of the other moderators--we're here to help you out. ^_^

EDIT: Now that I think about it.... the thread itself might be in need of some cleaning up or closing. It hasn't really gone anywhere, and the original topic strikes me as being pretty sketchy.

~Dagger~

[Guest gendou ikari]

Hmmmmmmmmm.... So this, Teen Titans, will it make you THINK. WOW. Never heard of that in a cartoon. Seriously, american plots are not complex, whatsoever. Iv'e read Spawn, it's not scary! I've read Spider Man it's not innovative and it's plot is rather mediocre... And SuperMan...PLEASE. Seriously, man....SuperMan.

Can you tell me in what way, these things that you mentioned are eathier original scary ect...


I can name a few anime that have the same qualities that you mentioned....

Boogie Pop Phantom- It'll scare the **** outta ya!

Evangelion- Inovattive, original, thought provoking, character development, original. WOW.

SGT.Frog- very funny, with a lot of puns on anime ( too much fan service though.

Azumanga Daioh- FUNNY

There ya go! Thats the knida stuff that i'm talking about, about the time that bambi was being shown, Japan was showing shows like Gundam.

[eleanor]

[color=firebrick] Where on earth is it written that good cartoons have to make you cry or get overly emotional? What I like about my favorite American cartoons [Invader Zim, Family Guy, etc.] is that they make you [b]laugh[/b]. I have yet to see an anime that has made me laugh out loud like American cartoons have.

And is there a rule that says in order for a cartoon to be 'good', it has to be complicated as well? Try this one for thought- if it wasn't for American cartoons, anime would never have been created. The big eyes small mouth theory came from Walt Disney, and anime is based off of that. Now you're pissed off that some American cartoons are using anime elements? *rolls eyes* The time Walt Disney produced his first motion picture [1937] with Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, anime hadn't been created. The first Bambi came out [1942] Japan had barely even begun animation production. Yeah, let's blame Americans and flame their animation when THEY were practically they ones who first created sound and colored animation. [/color]

[Guest gendou ikari]

I'm talking abot the color bambi. It also actually makes things interesting if things are not strait foward, it also makes things interesting if the characters are like living breathing people, ones that you can relate to so well that you can actually cry and feel sorry for them

. I would appreciate it if you were not so mean in your conversation, I have not lost my temper once. This is supposed to be a friendly conversation, I have already stated why that student got me angry, so why must you continue with this argument?

I would appreciate opinions and replies, NOT arguments, and whoever said I was blaming America?

Are you trying to change my opinion or something? I was trying to have a conversation, and the first one to have a smart *** remark was you. Please. Don't argue.

Also you could have known that I was talking about the color bambi, because Gundam was being shown at about that time.

[~*Lilith*~]

Matter of opinion if you ask me. I like American animation just as much as Japanese animation. Find both very good and very bad. It depends on what you watch. Some people do judge to quikly and others just don't like it. Kind of have to respect people's opinions a little more.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='gendou ikari']Hmmmmmmmmm.... So this, Teen Titans, will it make you THINK. WOW. Never heard of that in a cartoon. Seriously, american plots are not complex, whatsoever. Iv'e read Spawn, it's not scary! I've read Spider Man it's not innovative and it's plot is rather mediocre... And SuperMan...PLEASE. Seriously, man....SuperMan.[/quote]

I'm going to have to step in once more, I think. Ok, it's time to really stop bashing the whole of American animation, because it makes you JUST AS STUPID as those people who bash the whole of Japanese animation or Japanese film or American film or whatever.

You might dislike Superman, but there's something be said for an American [i]icon[/i] who has withstood the test of time far better than anything that I've seen come out of anime/manga. And the animated series' incarnation of him is one of the best ever.

To say that American plots aren't complex whatsoever is a very unfair and uneducated generalization. Now, it's true that by far the majority of American cartoons aren't too complex. But you started bringing up reading material (I can only assume comic books, and believe me when I tell you that there are [i]plenty[/i] of complex comics out there. Kingdom Come, Jar of Fools, and, heck, even a good number of X-Men comics are pretty complex).

Please, refrain from contrasting anime with American cartoons when quality on any level is concerned. There are enough American cartoons with great writing, unbelievable animation, etc., out there that you should not generalize the way you do. You CAN contrast anime and American cartoons when talking about content, genres, characterization, directing, etc. There ARE differences.


On a side note: Everyone STOP calling Teen Titans a "pretend anime" or anything close to that. The show's producer, Glen Murakami (he's probably French, or perhaps Bulgarian, you know?), is someone whose art style is very influenced by anime. He tried to incorporate a bit of that into Batman Beyond, and it's there if you look for it. He's been on board the different DC animated shows from the very beginning, and the more time goes by the more there appears a stylistic difference between Murakami and Bruce Timm. Now, true, there are a lot of "anime trappings" in the show, and they are ridiculously exaggerated for humor. But not only does that [i]work[/i] for humor, but considering Murakami wanted something NOT serious and purposefully different from something dark like Batman: TAS, it's exactly what someone would expect.

I don't think the art style was designed to appeal specifically to an audience hungry for anime. Although that might be part of the reason someone "high up" agreed to go with it ([i]if[/i] there was someone besides Murakami making the calls when it came to art).

Also, you have to realize that a lot of the animation is outsourced overseas (including Japan). Batman: TAS was drawn in Japan (by the same team who ended up doing Big O, actually). Now, [i]because[/i] of Batman (and G.I.Joe, also outsourced to Japan), I can't say that the artists matter nearly as much as the art [i]director[/i], but in the case of Teen Titans there might have been an influence on their part. I don't know.

Anyway, everyone stop hating Teen Titans because it is drawn in an anime style. If you want to hate it, find other, more well-founded reasons. Well, I humbly request that you do, anyway.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]This thread is beginning to remind me of a babysitting job I had once.For two whole hours it was nothing but a four year old and a five year old complaining about who was right. I almost went and donated my ovaries after those two hours.

I happen to like both American and Japanese cartoons. Sometimes I think the American ones are better because you don't have to wonder about local jokes and such. (episode 9 of SailorMoon comes to mind). Also, most american cartoons aren't part of a large scale story so if you miss a few days of an american cartoon you don't need to wonder. Most anime is like a soap opera. You miss too many episodes and you're out of the loop.

So there's my $0.02 (worth less in Canada) Please stop the insanity![/color]

[Dagger]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']Please stop the insanity![/color][/quote]

Gladly. This debate (if one can really call it that) is just going in circles. Since the lone dissenter refuses to concede any points, I don't see why his topic ought to remain open. It started off as a rant better suited for myO, and turned into a pointless argument about the relative merits of Japanese and American animation.

Thread closed.

~Dagger~