Gaming Virtua Fighter: Cyber Generation

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

This is just hilarious. I mean, not only are the VF games (in my opinion :mad:) some of the crappiest fighting games out there, but it seems that rather than try to add [i]actual[/i] depth to the fighting engine, as well as a true learning curve, or [i]something[/i] to make me play the game for any prolonged period of time, SEGA is going the way of Mortal Kombat: Mythologies!

[quote name='IGN][Virtua Fighter'] Cyber Generation takes an action-adventure twist on the Virtua Fighter series. You play as a couple punk kids and learn moves for your adventure by collecting special cards. The Virtua Fighter cast appears in non-playable form.[/quote]

Wow, that sounds like it should be called Tony Hawk: Pro Fighter. I can't wait! Just like I can't wait for Strike Force Bowling.

[Charles]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade]This is just hilarious. I mean, not only are the VF games (in my opinion :mad:) some of the crappiest fighting games out there, but it seems that rather than try to add [i]actual[/i] depth to the fighting engine, as well as a true learning curve, or [i]something[/i'] to make me play the game for any prolonged period of time, SEGA is going the way of Mortal Kombat: Mythologies![/quote][center][img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:0Ip9svVcJC0J:elijahschick.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/surprised.jpg[/img][/center]



Oh---my--gawd. Oh no he didn't! Are we going to have to go to war in our myOtakus or something? I couldn't care less about Cyber Generation, but the Virtua Fighter series is uncontested in terms of depth and learning curve. There literally is no parallel. It takes a great deal of time just to master one character effectively. It sounds to me as though you were unable to truly reap the benefits of the Virtua Fighter 4 engine because you lacked the patience and skill to learn it thoroughly.

In comparison to other fighters it's extremely sophisticated. The reversals, the variation in the move sets--it's all just wonderful. I'm really surprised with this revelation.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Charles']the Virtua Fighter series is uncontested in terms of depth and learning curve. There literally is no parallel. It takes a great deal of time just to master one character effectively. It sounds to me as though you were unable to truly reap the benefits of the Virtua Fighter 4 engine because you lacked the patience and skill to learn it thoroughly.[/quote]

I'd disagree about that first portion, because I've played a LOT of fighting games and Virtua Figther is easily contested. But I don't want to go into that because this thread is about how stupid Cyber Generation is (or how cool; whatever people want to say about it).

As for that last sentence, I just want to say that I do not by any means lack the "skill" to learn VF thoroughly. I'm a pretty hardcore gamer, and even my version of "brainless buttonmashing" can take out people who've played games like Tekken, DOA, SC, and VF for a good long while. I suppose I do lack the patience, but that's because my patience is better spent on things I enjoy. As to why I don't enjoy the VF series, well there's a lot to say and I'll say it on my MyO tomorrow.

[BlueYoshi]

It seems that Sega are just developing random stuff in order to survive in the competitive market. Though the game is incredibly deep and much credited, it is getting old and gamers (not hardcore to say the least) want to see something new. With Namco having announced Tekken 5, along with the release of their latest addition, "Nina", where you take the role of Nina Williams in a fierce beat 'em up, just as in Tekken Force mode, Sega will suffer along the line.

However, I find it highly unfair that of all the fighters around today, Soul Calibur 2 is the most popular amongst gaming fans, where brains and deepness lack compared to its rivals, but with the future in question it's hard to tell where Sega will end up with their line of games and ideas.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='BlueYoshi']It seems that Sega are just developing random stuff in order to survive in the competitive market. Though the game is incredibly deep and much credited, it is getting old and gamers (not hardcore to say the least) want to see something new. With Namco having announced Tekken 5, along with the release of their latest addition, "Nina", where you take the role of Nina Williams in a fierce beat 'em up, just as in Tekken Force mode, Sega will suffer along the line.[/quote]

I am confused. Sega is in dire straits because they've made about four different VF games over a decade, whereas Namco is winning out because they're making yet another Tekken and a spin-off? VF: CG, while strange, is the only somewhat original game mentioned in this thread so far.

This game is the Virtua Fighter RPG that Yu Suzuki first mentioned so long ago. Obviously it's different than most people expect, but I suggest people read about it before they write it off. I've been given nothing but the impression from the posts here that no one knows anything about the game.

I should also say that SC2 isn't the best selling 3D fighter of this generation and VF4 has done better than any other game in the series, not to mention garnishing some of the best reviews as well. The game did very well.

As for Sciros's comments about being able to beat decent players at VF by button mashing... I'd have to suggest the idea that these people you are playing against really aren't that good in the first place. Sure doesn't sound like it.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='BlueYoshi']I find it highly unfair that of all the fighters around today, Soul Calibur 2 is the most popular amongst gaming fans, where brains and deepness lack compared to its rivals[/quote]

As far as depth goes, SC2 does indeed rival the other fighters. It has more moves per character than any other fighting game I know of (VF has a lot too but some of them are like Up+K and that doesn't count), and some are much harder to pull off than others. And it has guard impacts, its "equalizer" (and the equivalent of counters/reversals/blahblah that you see in other fighters, as far as fighting strategy goes). And the story mode is long and you get cool weapons while playing it. Overall I'd say it has more than enough "depth," but the problem is all that depth counts for jack when I can just blunder my way through Extremely Hard in about 5 minutes by using the same several [i]easy-to-input[/i] moves in no particular pattern. So nobody can really appreciate its depth, and nobody really should. That kind of depth is worthless unless you play SC2 exclusively for about a year and learn to button-in Ivy's Calamity Symphony on a whim in the middle of a heated match. And even then some lucky guy will just kill you with Yunsung while playing for the very first time.

What makes Soul Calibur 2 good, though, is its music. It has an awesome soundtrack, rivaled only by that of the original Killer Instinct, and certainly not on a technical level. Also, SC2 for the Gamecube has Link. And that's a [i]big[/i] plus, at least until you realize that playing with Link in SC2 is about 1/100 the fun of playing with him in Smash Bros. Melee and just play that instead.

EDIT:
[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']I should also say that SC2 isn't the best selling 3D fighter of this generation[/quote]
Yeah. That title goes to: *drum roll*.... Dragonball Z: Budokai! Kickass! Freaking DBZ.

[Semjaza]

[url]http://www.sega-am2.co.jp/jp/download/vfcg.html[/url]

There's some trailers here for download. The game looks pretty good in motion.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Yikes! I just watched them. Holy moley, they are way worse than I ever imagined. Guess I had no clue what the game was going to be like, indeed. But this? Wow. I'm sorry I ever started a thread on this. It doesn't warrant my attention in the least, not even to poke fun at or anything. I'll say one thing only: this better be on the friggin PSP or something, because graphically it's not even close to something like Xenosaga Episode I.

Oosh boosh ninja...

[BlueYoshi]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']This game is the Virtua Fighter RPG that Yu Suzuki first mentioned so long ago. Obviously it's different than most people expect, but I suggest people read about it before they write it off. I've been given nothing but the impression from the posts here that no one knows anything about the game.[/quote]

Yeah, I do know about the game. It [i]is[/i] the RPG style game Yu Suzuki announced much earlier, formerly know as Virtua Fighter Quest, to be released for the PS2 and GC.

I doubt this game not for its name though, neither for the fact that it's Sega, but simply because I don't think that the concept of a beat 'em up merged with RPG style game play will work effectively, as proven by Square's over hyped The Bouncer. VF CG may be so much more, and may even re-introduce the genre once more, but it'll have to have some pretty surprising elements added in contrast to The Bouncer.

ScirosDarkblade - believe me, Soul Calibur 2 is just as broke and simple as Tekken 4 is. Virtua Fighter 4 is [i]the[/i] superior in depth, but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't like T4 or SC2.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='BlueYoshi]ScirosDarkblade - believe me, Soul Calibur 2 is just as broke and simple as Tekken 4 is. Virtua Fighter 4 is [i]the[/i'] superior in depth, but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't like T4 or SC2.[/quote]

I don't think that SC2 is nearly as "simple" as Tekken 4, but it IS likewise ridiculously easy. DOA is also not as "simple," and if you don't count the fact that SC2's moves are harder to input, deeper than SC2. But it's also extremely easy. The problem I have with extra "depth" such as what is in VF is that you don't have to be aware of it to be pretty formidable. The "easy to pick up, hard to master" aspect of all of these fighting games has one major problem: it would take a ludicrous amount of time to "master" the game to the point that talented beginners (I don't mean your girlfriends, I mean people like me or my other hardcore gamer friends) won't take you down too often.

Take, for instance, something like Killer Instinct. Yes, its mechanics are nothing like VF/DOA/SC/Tekken, but when someone is actually good at that game, you're not gonna take them down by any sort of buttonmashing. You're gonna HAVE to know what all the moves are, as well as how to properly time them to string together combos. If you don't, you'll die. Guaranteed.
Another example is SSBM. Its mechanics are nothing like that of any other fighter, but it has a tremendous learning curve. If you are less "skilled" than your opponent in that game, you're going to lose damn near every time. If you use no items, then every time.

Now, I don't care if a game doesn't stress skill quite so much if there's other things it has to offer. I have other problems with VF besides the fact that I can't play it to have a "good fight." But whatever.

[AzureWolf]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=blue][QUOTE][color=black](I don't mean your girlfriends, I mean people like me or my other hardcore gamer friends)[/color][/QUOTE] You have definately been playing the wrong crowd of people. No offense to any of your peers that live around you, but they must be slow at learning and therefore assumed, after a set period of time, that they've "mastered" the game, without actually learning anything. Come along anyone - girlfriends included - they lose. What an epiphany...[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=#0000ff]Virtua Fighter and Soul Caliber 2 are not games where you "master" a fighting style and then expect to win. The focus (what makes the games deep) is in adapting to your opponent's fight style. You may have a default style with which you open every fight, but it has to transform and conform with respect to your opponent's. You aren't going to use fancy moves and tricks against a button masher - that's just wasteful. Instead, you are going to use wide and long range moves to screw those types over. In addition, you aren't going to use your best moves to start a fight with - that's giving away your chance at victory.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=#0000ff]If you realize this fact, you don't have to master much to take down a n00b. Problem solved. Any other flaws?[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=#0000ff]There's also the point of "flow," which ties into style, but it's not necessary or important to point it out at this point.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=#0000ff]Now, just looking at what games you've pointed out as "deep" and "n00b-resistant," I can tell that you like easy-to-learn games. Half or more of DOA's fight is countering, which is just a direction and the block button. Now, add that with the knowledge of what type of move (high, mid, low) your opponent specializes in, and half your battle is done for you. You've just learned nothing except statistics and BS.[/color][/size][/font]

[font=Georgia][size=2][color=#0000ff]Now, the other half of the fight is pretty simple. Already, the game's speed is set to "underwater:" everyone is ridiculously slow (Ein's got some fast moves - comparatively speaking :laugh:). The slow motion aspect gets boring really fast, and the resulting unresponsiveness borders on revolting. The only thing that actually makes you wait so long for a move to finish is how cool it looks. Aside from that, people (unfortunately) praise this game for the women. If you took that part away, so many people would not be so blind to the faults of this game. But what are you going to do, "sex sells." And sex is not deep. [QUOTE][color=#000000]Now, I don't care if a game doesn't stress skill quite so much if there's other things it has to offer.[/color][/QUOTE] Actually, for fighting games, skill is one thing I look for. Sure, fun is certainly important, but fighting games are supposed to be competitive. How can you be competitive if there's no skill involved?[/color][/size][/font]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='AzureWolf']You have definately been playing the wrong crowd of people. No offense to any of your peers that live around you, but they must be slow at learning and therefore assumed, after a set period of time, that they've "mastered" the game, without actually learning anything.[/quote]
Haha. Not so, my friend, not so. If you really knew me and my friends, you wouldn't say that. But I can't convince you that we're pretty decent gamers (iincluding when it comes to fighting games) without actually having you play with us. So let's drop that whole thing.

[QUOTE]Virtua Fighter and Soul Caliber 2 are not games where you "master" a fighting style and then expect to win. The focus (what makes the games deep) is in adapting to your opponent's fight style. You may have a default style with which you open every fight, but it has to transform and conform with respect to your opponent's. You aren't going to use fancy moves and tricks against a button masher - that's just wasteful. Instead, you are going to use wide and long range moves to screw those types over. In addition, you aren't going to use your best moves to start a fight with - that's giving away your chance at victory[/QUOTE]
That's "fighting games 101" material right there. Even when I "button mash," I learn which of my moves do what and employ them as I think would be best. My button mashing is not "pressing random buttons"; it's simply playing using straight-up intuition.

[QUOTE]Now, just looking at what games you've pointed out as "deep" and "n00b-resistant," I can tell that you like easy-to-learn games. [/QUOTE]
The games I pointed out as "n00b-resistant" were Killer Instinct and Super Smash Bros. Melee. That's it. And those ARE "n00b-resistant." How do you figure I like easy-to-learn games? Just because I like DOA more than SC2 doesn't mean I like it for its simplicity. I dislike it for its simplicity. I like it for its graphics/animation. I like SC2 for its music. Currently my favorite game to play is Ninja Gaiden, and once I'm done getting all the scarabs I'm gonna move on to very hard. I wouldn't say that I like easy-to-learn games.

Also, I agree with you that DOA's fighting mechanics are not all that great. But the problems I've found with it are similar to the ones I've found with VF. And SC2.

[AzureWolf]

[font=Georgia][color=blue][QUOTE][color=#000000]Haha. Not so, my friend, not so. If you really knew me and my friends, you wouldn't say that. But I can't convince you that we're pretty decent gamers (iincluding when it comes to fighting games) without actually having you play with us. So let's drop that whole thing.[/color][color=blue][/QUOTE] Actually, the quality of your peers and yourself is something that would aid in this disucssion, but yes, there is no way to indicate that unless you've played in regional tournaments. :-/ Oh well, on to point 2. [QUOTE][color=#000000]That's "fighting games 101" material right there. Even when I "button mash," I learn which of my moves do what and employ them as I think would be best. My button mashing is not "pressing random buttons"; it's simply playing using straight-up intuition.[/color][/QUOTE] Ok, so you are learning moves and tricks as you play. That's great. In fact, we can forget about your peers and focus on you, especially since you believe your friends are veterans/masters of the fighting games and I'm prone to disagree. We'll remove all variables except skill.[/color][/color][/font]
[font=Georgia][color=blue][color=blue][/color][/color][/font]
[font=Georgia][color=blue][color=blue]In SC2 or VF4, are you saying that if you fought a more experienced version of yourself, that the inexperienced version would hand your rear to the experienced one? If you "mastered" the game and your "novice" version played against you, you're sure that the experienced one would have trouble or even lose to the novice one?[/color][/color][/font]

[font=Georgia][color=#0000ff]Your logic seriously eludes me. Why is it that you are allowed to adapt and learn from your opponent, yet your experienced people can't do the same and outdo you, since they are more seasoned and should be able to catch on faster than you? [QUOTE][color=#000000]The games I pointed out as "n00b-resistant" were Killer Instinct and Super Smash Bros. Melee. That's it. And those ARE "n00b-resistant." How do you figure I like easy-to-learn games? Just because I like DOA more than SC2 doesn't mean I like it for its simplicity. I dislike it for its simplicity. I like it for its graphics/animation. I like SC2 for its music. Currently my favorite game to play is Ninja Gaiden, and once I'm done getting all the scarabs I'm gonna move on to very hard. I wouldn't say that I like easy-to-learn games.[/color][/QUOTE] I'm not familiar with Killer Instinct, but the other two games, DOA and SSB:M, I know to be games that you can pick up at a friends house in less than an hour. They are both games where you don't need to learn much in order to join the fray of players. Granted, there is another level of depth for SSB:M, but in a four-way free for all, individual skill becomes diluted. So, novice and expert can collide and no one would be the wiser.[/color][/font]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='AzureWolf']Your logic seriously eludes me. Why is it that you are allowed to adapt and learn from your opponent, yet your experienced people can't do the same and outdo you, since they are more seasoned and should be able to catch on faster than you?[/quote]
My point was that being "experienced and seasoned" in some games amounts to jack, VF being one of them (you disagree, I know, but that was the point).

[QUOTE]I'm not familiar with Killer Instinct, but the other two games, DOA and SSB:M, I know to be games that you can pick up at a friends house in less than an hour. They are both games where you don't need to learn much in order to join the fray of players. Granted, there is another level of depth for SSB:M, but in a four-way free for all, individual skill becomes diluted. So, novice and expert can collide and no one would be the wiser.[/color][/font][/QUOTE]
It will take a lot more than an hour's worth of playing to get good enough to beat my Link in SSB:M. It will probably take several months, or a couple months of non-stop Smash playing.
I've played enough 4-way free-for-alls to tell you that individual skill by no means becomes diluted. When I play with my friends, two of us consistenly beat the others. SSB:M is [i]the[/i] deepest "fighting game" (it's not quite the same genre I'd say though) ever put together. I've been playing that game since its release, and I'm still learning new tricks to improve my playing. And no novice will come close to beating me, even in four-way, unless I get my arse handed to me by a better player all match long and that novice gets left alone entirely. Even then, unless there's three lives' difference (1 vs. 4), I won't lose if we're the only two left.

I can see that you maybe are like a killer VF player and so you feel about VF the way I feel about SSB:M or KI.

[Brasil]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Haha. Not so, my friend, not so. If you really knew me and my friends, you wouldn't say that. But I can't convince you that we're pretty decent gamers (iincluding when it comes to fighting games) without actually having you play with us. So let's drop that whole thing.[/quote]Oh, c'mon, man. You're not that good and you know it, lol. See, skill is one thing, but arrogance and egomania do not replace skill. And do you know why you want to drop the subject? Because you know you're putting on a front here. Seriously, dude, come off it. But, whatever. Blinded by your own arrogance, as usual, I see.

[QUOTE]That's "fighting games 101" material right there. Even when I "button mash," I learn which of my moves do what and employ them as I think would be best. My button mashing is not "pressing random buttons"; it's simply playing using straight-up intuition.[/QUOTE]No, Sciros, what you just said right there is a very horrid misconception about what button-mashing is. If you say you button-mash, you play like a n00b. Simple as that. There is no deeper style of button-mashing, lol. Intuition doesn't factor in here [i]at all[/i]. If you're slamming on buttons, you're not anticipating at all and you are not even reacting appropriately. A [i]true[/i] gamer never, ever button-mashes. If you are as hardcore as you say you are, then you would never even need to button-mash. That's the truth.

[QUOTE]The games I pointed out as "n00b-resistant" were Killer Instinct and Super Smash Bros. Melee. That's it. And those ARE "n00b-resistant." How do you figure I like easy-to-learn games? Just because I like DOA more than SC2 doesn't mean I like it for its simplicity. I dislike it for its simplicity. I like it for its graphics/animation. I like SC2 for its music. Currently my favorite game to play is Ninja Gaiden, and once I'm done getting all the scarabs I'm gonna move on to very hard. I wouldn't say that I like easy-to-learn games.[/QUOTE]Like AzureWolf has so intelligently and eloquently pointed out, Smash Bros. Melee is definitely a pick-up-and-play fighting game. It is not "n00b-resistant." A new fighter can hold their own reasonably well. Pit them against a Smash Vet, and they're done, but against normal players, they'll do fine. Against the computer on a beginning level, they'll do fine. "N00b-resistant" my ***.

Killer Instinct? Not "n00b-resistant," either. The game mechanics are so simple in that game that anyone can play it moderately well. There is absolutely no timing required. You want to see button-mashing, KI.

EDIT:

[QUOTE]I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd show up. You just can't resist trying to get on my case, hehe.[/QUOTE]"Trying"? Oh, I think I did, didn't I?

[QUOTE]Learn to read. I want to drop the subject because I can't prove my skills to you, just like AzureWolf and you can't prove yours to me. Next time you have nothing to say besides how "arrogant and egomaniacal" I am, just write the words "typical Petey/Poisontongue/Animefangurl response." You'll save both of us a lot of time.[/QUOTE]"Learn to read"? Sciros, what do you think of Sarah Connor? Do you trust what she says at the end of T2? Do you believe they prevented the war? You shouldn't. Do you know why? She's an unreliable narrator. Do you honestly think you're a reliable narrator, based on your behavior? Think about it, man.

You're insisting on dropping the point because you're an unreliable narrator and have such a skewed worldview that it is affecting your ability to effectively communicate an idea. I think you're the one who should learn the intricacies of conversation and dialogue.

[QUOTE]Smash Bros. is not nearly as pick-up-and-play as any of the "true 3-d fighters" out there. Not even close. Oh, also, "n00b-resistant" means that a vet and a high-level (9) computer would surely win against newbies. That's what it means. It doesn't mean that "against the computer on a beginning level," they'll die. It's a beginning level computer, you said it yourself.[/QUOTE]I know what "n00b-resistant" means, thank you very much, and you didn't debunk anything I said in the reply. You're saying that an entire game is "n00b-resistant" simply because [i]advanced[/i] skills (human or otherwise) can wipe the floors with a newbie. If you can't see the faulty logic there, I'll spell it out for you.

A game is not defined purely on one skillset, much like how the umbrella genre of horror is not defined by the subset of teeny slasher. You're painting Melee like some n00b-hater when in fact, it's not.

If anything, newbies stand a [i]better[/i] chance when first starting out in Melee, as opposed to Soul Calibur II or Virtua Fighter 4.

[QUOTE]Ah, the irony. Maybe this thread should just turn into a random fighting-game-bashing thread. I'll talk about how VF sucks, you talk about how KI sucks. It'll be fun![/QUOTE]Random fighting-game bashing? You mentioned KI long before I did, dude. In fact...

[QUOTE]I don't think anything good is coming of this at all. From now on out, this thread is just about updates to VF Cyber Generation. Screw the stupid arguing.[/QUOTE]...think about who went off-topic first. As I recall, AzureWolf and various others commented on your entire posts, and you hyperfocused on incidental mentions, basing your [i]entire[/i] replies off of them. Sciros, you went off-topic first.

EDIT 2:

And furthermore, if you are such a great gamer, then prove it and stop flaunting it. Prove it through knowledge and not through empty boasts. You see, a gamer that is truly confident in their abilities feels absolutely no need to elevate themselves or their skill over everyone else. Sciros, I know of no other OBer here who is so compelled to mention over and over again how great a gamer they are, no matter what thread it is in Play It.

Next time you want to open that mouth of yours, think long and hard about what I've said in these two edits.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd show up. You just can't resist trying to get on my case, hehe.

[quote name='Anime_fangurl*247']Oh, c'mon, man. You're not that good and you know it, lol. See, skill is one thing, but arrogance and egomania do not replace skill. And do you know why you want to drop the subject? Because you know you're putting on a front here. Seriously, dude, come off it. But, whatever. Blinded by your own arrogance, as usual, I see.[/quote]
Learn to read. I want to drop the subject because I can't prove my skills to you, just like AzureWolf and you can't prove yours to me. Next time you have nothing to say besides how "arrogant and egomaniacal" I am, just write the words "typical Petey/Poisontongue/Animefangurl response." You'll save both of us a lot of time.

[QUOTE]Like AzureWolf has so intelligently and eloquently pointed out, Smash Bros. Melee is definitely a pick-up-and-play fighting game. It is not "n00b-resistant." A new fighter can hold their own reasonably well. Pit them against a Smash Vet, and they're done, but against normal players, they'll do fine. Against the computer on a beginning level, they'll do fine. "N00b-resistant" my ***.[/QUOTE]
Smash Bros. is not nearly as pick-up-and-play as any of the "true 3-d fighters" out there. Not even close. Oh, also, "n00b-resistant" means that a vet and a high-level (9) computer would surely win against newbies. That's what it means. It doesn't mean that "against the computer on a beginning level," they'll die. It's a beginning level computer, you said it yourself.

[QUOTE]Killer Instinct? Not "n00b-resistant," either. The game mechanics are so simple in that game that anyone can play it moderately well. There is absolutely no timing required. You want to see button-mashing, KI.[/QUOTE]
Ah, the irony. Maybe this thread should just turn into a random fighting-game-bashing thread. I'll talk about how VF sucks, you talk about how KI sucks. It'll be fun!

I don't think anything good is coming of this at all. From now on out, this thread is just about updates to VF Cyber Generation. Screw the stupid arguing.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']I don't think anything good is coming of this at all. From now on out, this thread is just about updates to VF Cyber Generation. Screw the stupid arguing.[/quote]

I agree. I think this has run its course. If people feel there is more to say, PM or go to myOtakus or whatever else. This is starting to get beyond what it should, I think. There's too much potential for further debasement of this thread.

Everyone, just talk about the game that this thread was made for in the first place.