Gaming Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

[satan665]

My lifesaver in the battle mentioned above:

[Spoiler] I very luckily had a water elemental which had an ability that increases my whole parties accuracy and agility. This has been a real lifesaver for the tough battles. It made Matador much easier, because if you miss you're screwed in boss battles. I used it 3 or 4 times and he started to miss pretty often. [/Spoiler]

But the next big test was...(read the top line first that tells you where I am)

[Spoiler]In Ikebukuro:

Before heading into the headquarters of Gozu Tennoh I ran into Dante who annihilated me.

At first his attack aren't too bad, but once he starts to realize you are a challenge he uses a spell that kills your defense, then attacks your whole party. The second time around I boosted my attack, defense, accuracy and agility with various spells then just started hammering away. He manages to kill one of my healer demons, but I bested him. It seems I will probably get killed the first time around in a lot of battles. I'm L26 now so managing to push up there and get some powerful allies. There are some interesting NPC's in Ikebukuro but I won't spoil it. [/Spoiler]

[Semjaza]

I'm not quite as far as you... I really haven't gotten to play as much as I would have liked so far lol.

Last night I messed with some sacrificial fusions, which are very useful. They basically just increase the level of whatever demon you'd be creating via the fusion. How much seems to depend largely on the race of the demon you're sacrificing compared to the fusion result.

It'll be nice when I play a second time without fusion level restrictions... [spoiler]with some of the demons you can recruit in the first area alone, you could wind up with some Level 30 demons like Baphomet heh.[/spoiler]

I also went into [spoiler] the true Labyrinth of Amala... the first Kapla, which you can access by bringing the first candelabrum to the woman in black and the old man. Great place for gaining levels since its just a massive maze, but there are no healing points at all. I did find one, but it took ALL of my money (claims only 500, but they lie) and kicked me back to the S-Terminal lol.[/spoiler]

[satan665]

Yeah, I've managed to log some quality hours playing and have gotten my main character to a pretty high level. Problem is that for every few levels you gain, there's always a few demons that you can fuse based on the demons in your party, but their too high level so you can only look at the transparent pictures of them and wish.

Some not too spoilerish advice:

[Spoiler] in the labyrinth of Amala:

I wandered around gaining levels and finding souls that sold stuff, but fell in a hole that took me down to a level of the maze with enemies too hard for me and they wiped me out. worst part was that for whatever reason i forgot to save and had to go back and fight through some tough parts again, which was really frustrating[/Spoiler]

I really like this game and I'm glad you wrote so much about it here. I read a short review in PSM (usually a very good source) where they say (paraphrase) put the atmosphere and cell shading aside and what you have is basically Pokemon. granted they have a point about the focus on fighting and leveling of demons, but the big sell of the game is the atmosphere. Thats what makes it so good and Pokemon fire red or whatever mindless junk. I was disappointed by their 7.5/10, but I guess really it only matters that I like it and enough other people did so it could be released here.

[Semjaza]

Labyrinth of Amala is a *****. The first level is worth going through early on... but there are no free healing points (just the expensive Dr. Dark and those bars that bring you back to the entrance, no shops, no save points, no recruiting... lol.

Comparing it to Pokemon is rather uninformed, mostly because that review marks it as a negative point. The series has allowed these things since before Pokemon even existed and attacking it for what is a staple in the series is rather dumb. Ignoring its other strengths because of that quality bothers me.

I read a lot of reviews of this game and sit back and wonder if the reviewer even understood it, as egotistical as that may sound on my part. Especially reviews that ***** about "not getting the right demons". There are no "right" demons. It's as if people expect these things to fall into their laps without work... predetermined parties that save them time.

The whole string of comments claiming the battle system is lackluster confuse me. They are only brought up because the game isn't real time, which I'm finding is the new "cool thing" for people who do reviews in magazines, despite it being around forever (the current versions are all rather similar to SNES incarnations even, hardly new). I don't consider this a fault for Nocturne.

Really, the battle system is similar to FFXs, but requires more skill and planning. People loved FFX's system apparently, so what changed? In addition to all that offers, you have recruiting, conversations and the whole press turn system that completely mixes it all up creating something new. I don't get it, lol.

Oh well.

[satan665]

It wouldn't be frustrating except that a good review would get people buying the game, which would obviously increase our chances of seeing any further sequels that come out at some point.

I really like the turn system, becuse you can't just power through enemies for the most part. Almost every elemental based enemy in Tales of Symphonia I would just run up and bash the hell out of just like it was any other beast. FFX I really liked too, where you had to sub in and out because certain characters weapons work well against different baddies. SMT just takes it a step further by rewarding you for knowing which spells and defenses to have. Usually in FF games there are tons of spells I never use like sleep and silence, because they never work consistently enough to be worthwhile. In SMT you can try to just melee through enemies with high defense, but it is much smarter to Use paralyze (or something) which if its a weakness gives extra turns, and then melee attack wind up all being critical hits (even more extra turns).

Its really satisfying to wipe out 12 enemies without letting them get in a turn when you know their weaknesses well. That makes the battles the way more fun, and in the case of the Fiends (Skull faced dudes) it makes them somewhat possible to fight and actually beat.

I don't know, maybe its just hard to pick up on this stuff when you review a lot of games, but I can't really give em any slack because I'd kill to be able to make a living playing videogames all day.

[Semjaza]

I do have a couple of gripes with this game and they're likely why some people cite the game's difficulty.

First, the lack of Save points. You cannot save on the world map at all, you have to find specific Terminals to save in. Not a huge deal, but they're purposely not peppered throughout larger dungeons (I've never seen more than two, and that's in the hardest of areas) so that you are pretty much screwed. It can be annoying when you're playing two hours and haven't gone back to find a save point.

The other thing that bothers me are Death and Expel spells. Examples are Hama cast by various angels and Mudo by random others. ************* instant death attacks. Many of the more difficult RPG series have these spells.

The problem here is that a lot of random creatures have these attacks. I might be wandering through some random area at Level 42. I come across Level 8 angels... They cast Hama on my main character, he dies.

Now these spells often just do not work at all. They miss a lot. However, I feel like they miss far less on your main character, and in this game, if he dies, you just right out lose.

There are Magatama that give you anti-death and anti-expel defensive boosts while you have them equipped. However, the one that voids death is weak to expel and the one that voids expel is weak to death. So you're stuck leveling them up in areas where the demons don't know these attacks until they (thank god!) teach you Anti-Death and Anti-Expel skills. They're a god send.

I guess if you plan ahead and do these things, those attacks would do nothing to you... but it's still annoying lol.

[James]

[color=#667F84]Wow, there's a lot of reading here. I'm pretty pleased with everything I've read so far though.

I'm a little worried, in that my PS2 has been behaving weirdly with some games lately (it renders Star Ocean unplayable, for example). Unfortunately, despite paying good money for that game, I've not yet played enough to really decide how I feel about it. That sucks.

In any case, I'm planning to buy a PSTwo fairly soon, and this game will definitely be on my list.

The problem with game reviews (at least, most of the ones I've read) is that they are simply too short. From the sounds of it, this is a game that requires more analysis than a simple one or two page review can provide.

So, I'll probably pick it up when I can. Thanks to Tony for his lengthy impressions; that stuff is always great to see on here.[/color]

[Semjaza]

[QUOTE=James][color=#667F84]The problem with game reviews (at least, most of the ones I've read) is that they are simply too short. From the sounds of it, this is a game that requires more analysis than a simple one or two page review can provide.

So, I'll probably pick it up when I can. Thanks to Tony for his lengthy impressions; that stuff is always great to see on here.[/color][/QUOTE]

It's funny because I hadn't played a huge amount of the game when I wrote those. They have some issues (I spelled the name of the moon incorrectly for sure lol), but if I can write that much after what I played, I don't think the reviewers should have a problem either. Magazines of course have alloted space, but places like IGN don't.

Plus, I am not sure if I mentioned this, but a few of the reviews I've read have just outright wrong information on them. One of the reviews mentioned the alignment paths and had a rather large mistake there.

I don't know your current status, but I don't think Atlus has a PAL release studio at all... I could be wrong, but I have not heard of one. Are you able to play imported NTSC games?

Anyway, if there's any specific questions from people who may be interested in this game, I 'm sure they could be answered here easily heh.

[James]

[QUOTE=Semjaza Azazel]I don't know your current status, but I don't think Atlus has a PAL release studio at all... I could be wrong, but I have not heard of one. Are you able to play imported NTSC games?

[/QUOTE]

[color=#667F84]I don't think that Atlus have their own distributor here, but there are a few companies that don't. What you'll find, usually, is that one of the big local distributors will pick up those games.

For example, THQ Australia distributes a large amount of games that THQ itself doesn't distribute elsewhere. Also, SCEA (Sony Computer Entertainment Australia) is in a similar position.

I haven't read about this game locally, but I must admit that I haven't been following the local scene much at all during 2004. There are a ton of games now available here that I never even knew about. I'm going into Video Games Heaven on the weekend (if it's not at VGH, then nobody has it), so I'll ask about it then. ^_^[/color]

[satan665]

I don't think that the game is that difficult, its ok to die every once in a while in a game. I usually get stomped by a boss the first time I fight them (happens nearly half the time) but its fine because usually there is a save point nearby the bosses. After getting trounced you figure out some good demons to bring along to cut down the guys turns and take him down in round 2. The candle bearing fiends take the most effort though, the third one I faced I had to fight 4 times or so before I took him down.

So far there has never been any parts where I wished for more save terminals, they seem to be pretty common in dungeons. You can always hop back to the main terminals and heal, then walk back to where you were in the dungeon with the encounter down ability. I think its fun to have to swap demons when one runs out of MP/HP until your whole party is beaten down to low stats and you're running out of potions. Then you just barely make it out of a dungeon and pray not to run into a boss. It's compelling and fits into the game, would you really feel secure thrust into some wacked out demon tokyo?

[Semjaza]

I don't know, I honestly do feel the amount of demons that have death/expel magic is a bit high... I think the main issue for me is that I do not have lots of time to dedicate to this game and getting killed in one single hit by some weak demon after spending almost two hours in a Kapla can be really, really frustrating. If I could just play again, then I'd not care... but sometimes I only have a couple hours to play within a few days time. I feel like I didn't accomplish anything in the game lol.

I do get bothered that I can't save in the field though. This wasn't as much of a problem in the other SMT games because the field was so small by comparison... but if you're in a new area and have been searching through it without finding a Terminal, it's just a pain to have to go back to a previous area and save there.

My lack of patience with that is probably the only real problem lol. I tend to just keep playing and in my head, I'm doing what I have to do to keep my characters healed... but then Mudo or Hama happens and that goes down the drain. I need to plan better lol.

I've honestly not had a problem with any of the Fiends other than the first. That guy was just a sudden jump in difficulty compared to anything before him...

[OtakuSennen]

[QUOTE=Semjaza Azazel]I don't know, I honestly do feel the amount of demons that have death/expel magic is a bit high... I think the main issue for me is that I do not have lots of time to dedicate to this game and getting killed in one single hit by some weak demon after spending almost two hours in a Kapla can be really, really frustrating. If I could just play again, then I'd not care... but sometimes I only have a couple hours to play within a few days time. I feel like I didn't accomplish anything in the game lol.
[/QUOTE][color=navy]I know exactly what you mean. I can never seem to find time to fit Nocturne into my day, and even when I do I'm still spending it running around the Ginza Underpass leveling up to beat the first Fiend. After picking up a certain special Magatama and fusing my [spoiler]Angel and Lilim to make a Nozuchi,[/spoiler] I did fine until [spoiler]he pulled out Taunt and that fencing technique..[/spoiler] I suppose leveling up will remedy that, though.

The characters in this game are incredibly entertaining. Even the unimportant ones that you just talk to in passing are interesting and, in their own ways, sort of funny (See: Manikins). [spoiler]I can't get over the pedophiliac junk salesman in the Underpass.[/spoiler]

I am really, really itching to get farther in the game, but I think that is going to have to wait until the weekend. It's rare that I buy a game and go insane when I can't play it for hours on end- I think the last game that did that to me was Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. At least Nocturne lasts longer than five hours. :p [/color]

[Semjaza]

[quote name='OtakuSennen][color=navy']At least Nocturne lasts longer than five hours. :p [/color][/quote]

Yeah, I'm at like 19 right now... not including all the time I spent going places only to die lol.

Have either of you (or anyone else that might have this) gotten to meet any of the horsemen Fiends? I think I have pictures of them on the first page. [spoiler]After finishing the Second Kapla in the Amala Labyrinth, they ask you if you if you're willing to fight against them... at which point they are apparently available for combat all over the Vortex Word. I wound up running into one in Asakusa.[/spoiler]

The first one is just way beyond any other battle I've dealt with thus far. The other Fiends were pushovers by comparison. I'm at Level 39 with some level 37 to 39 demons and I still can't manage to get past the guy. Eventually lol.

I've been having a lot of fun with fusion, though. It's the same reason I loved those Demi-Kids games so much. I really like playing with combinations and seeing what results.

[spoiler]I have a few deathstones now, which allow you to summon fiends to your side. Which fiend results depends on the moon cycle at the time of the fusion.

I still haven't gotten to do Mitama fusions though... I can't find any Jade so far, which seems to be required for each of them.[/spoiler]

I've wound up with a lot of different demons, though. Right now, my party consists of a Succubus, Baphomet and one of the Fiends (the one with the weird hat that holds a bell, I forget his name). It's great having that Demon Compendium now, as I can just summon them instantly for a fee without having to catch demons in the process. Yay.

Also, a little trick:

[spoiler] If you keep your Pixie from the start of the game (or one of its descendants) you'll be able to access an area later on that you'd not be able to otherwise. I'd hold on to her.[/spoiler]

I'm really enjoying the storyline in this game. I suppose the way it is paced might be a turn-off for some. I know a lot of RPGs nowadays tend to present it more in a book-like format where something is always happening... whereas, in this game, you may be stuck in some weird area only to really find out what is happening once you finally make it out. I guess that's a matter of preference.

But what is there is very interesting. As I work on Digital Devil Database, I write down a lot of things and keep notes so I can work on the various sections. Even the Lexicon, where I stick definitons of terms in the series, is constantly updated... Something as seemingly simply as Kagutsuchi (the silver moon mentioned earlier) has a far greater importance as the game goes on. And since I'm stuck really writing these things down, I think I'm running them through my mind more than if I was just playing it and that was that. There's a lot to consider in the game.

When you have several groups that want to be in charge of the creation of the new world after The Conception, obviously their views contrast. Seeing them fight for power and reason as to why their method is best has been very interesting. While there are some idealogies followed in this game that I don't agree with, you can see why they would attract certain people and why other main characters go along with it.

I guess my point is that the game is far deeper than it might let on at first. Things are told to you as you progress (I've learned a lot of stuff just by finishing Kaplas), but there's a lot to still piece together yourself, some scenes that you may just miss completely if you're not in the right place at the right time and things to just consider.

And is it just me, or is the overall look of this game just amazing? I've always liked it, but there are aspects of it that really just work so well. The texturework in a lot of the areas is surprisingly crisp, despite repitition in the larger dungeon areas. There's also some really awesome cutscenes that make amazing use of color and shadow... for example, the opening scene where your character first appears after The Conception in the hospital (with the black and white)... or the scene with Chiaki in the red and white classroom. Just beautiful stuff, I think.

[Zidargh]

[size=1] I've been following this thread closely for a while now, and your last post, Tony, really made the game just that even more appealing to me for some reason.

Any news on a PAL release?


[b][Z][/b][/size]

[satan665]

Hmmm. You have caught up to me, since I've been spending time playing GTA as well, I'm level 40 right now.

Fiends: [Spoiler] I haven't run into the horsemen one, though I have gotten to the second level of the labrynth so it should be coming soon. I had a lot of trouble with the biker fiend, it took me a while to get together enough fire resistant demons to take him out.[/Spoiler]

Mitama: [Spoiler] You don't need Jade to get Mitama, just fuse together any two elementals and you will get a mitama out of it. They're great for adding stats and abilities to demons but kinda expensive to use a lot. I'm hoping a mitama with the watchful skill will come by eventually [/Spoiler]

Question for you: [Spoiler] I made it through Ikebukuro Tunnel OK, but have only found two of the Oni, so there's one more before the boss will come out. Both were relatively in the same area (its hard to describe in type). I killed the red pants one and the blue one that I think was ice based, do you know where the third one is in the tunnel?[/Spoiler]

In general I'm super happy with this game. The biggest thing (which is fun) is wanting to side up with one of the groups to create the new world, but so far none have really seemed that good of an idea. [Spoiler] You kinda want to side with the main characters human friends, but they get increasingly weird as the game goes on. So far the journalist guy seems the most "normal"...and there's always the white light and the voice from above but who knows who is behind that.[/Spoiler]

Well now I'm excited and I'm going to have to play some more tonight.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='satan665][Spoiler'] You kinda want to side with the main characters human friends, but they get increasingly weird as the game goes on. So far the journalist guy seems the most "normal"...and there's always the white light and the voice from above but who knows who is behind that.[/Spoiler][/quote]

Hah, that voice freaked me out at first because it seemed like such a major, major decision to make. I chose to go against the plan of whoever that was... My second time through, I figure I'll go along with him.

The Second Kapla introduces the ideas of the Messians and Gaeans, which is one of the first things that really points to any Christianity type ideals in the game. I'm wondering what will become of them. The game has alluded to a rather major idea a few times involving your main character, but we'll see what happens.

As for the Oni in that cave, I honestly cannot remember offhand. Perhaps its the one you come across directly after falling through that hole?

Zidargh - I don't know if any big Atlus RPGs make it to PAL countries. Might be an import game. I've heard nothing of this title coming out elsewhere.

[satan665]

I found the last Oni, he was in the subway tunnel near the end. I never did come across any of the horsemen fiends, even though I think I am farther than you were when you mentioned them. [Spoiler] I infiltrated the assembly of Nihilo the second time, and the dungeon level is utterly huge. It took me two nights of playing, but I managed to make it through without dying at all. Its always tempting to port out with one of the terminals, but I'm glad I didn't because it would have really really sucked to have to make up all of that climbing, and the random encounters are very frequent in there. At the end of it all is another major turn in the story, but I won't spoil it for anyone.[/Spoiler]

So far I'm level 47, and I'm now starting to run into demons who won't join me because of my alignment. One said something like "I of the Vile clan would not side with the likes of you" which was pretty interesting. I don't really like the evil looking demons too much anyway, I've been trying to fuse more diety, holy and femme sorts.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='satan665']I found the last Oni, he was in the subway tunnel near the end. I never did come across any of the horsemen fiends, even though I think I am farther than you were when you mentioned them.[/quote]

You actually have to finish the Second Kapla completely for them to start appearing... did you do that? The first one I ran into is basically right at the entrance of Asakusa.

[quote]So far I'm level 47, and I'm now starting to run into demons who won't join me because of my alignment. One said something like "I of the Vile clan would not side with the likes of you" which was pretty interesting. I don't really like the evil looking demons too much anyway, I've been trying to fuse more diety, holy and femme sorts.[/QUOTE]

I've been sticking with the more malevolent types... I find that I choose my demons based on their appearance quite a bit. There's some that just look too cool to pass up. I really like the random female looking designs, such as that Kibuko Himi (or whatever her name is, I'm nowhere near my place to find out - red dress with a black mask).

Either way, you can still attempt to get those through fusions if need be...

[satan665]

I have the first three candles in place, but I haven't finished the second kalpa I guess. I kina just wandered around in there til I ran out of energy and then went on with the game from there. I guess that will be my mission for today or tomorrow, I really like the challenge of fighting those fiends. Plus I want to be able to summon them. I have Matador, but those skull thingies are hard to come by. My luck rating is pretty low, so I'm probably not going to see too many of them from the mystical chests. I did pick up a Jade finally, so I can try out some of the fancier Mitama.

What type of build are you making for your main character? I have been keeping mostly elemental skills so I can get more turns and protect from elemental damage. Tornado with Force boost is my most potent weapon right now, and its convenient to have void ice and void shock. Fog breath is pretty decent too, but it becomes less useful cause it seems like less and less bosses are using physical attacks. I also have mana drain, which is super useful so that you can survive long dungeons without using up precious MP items. Its easy enough to leave one blob on the field and regenerate your MP every couple of turns.

[Semjaza]

[quote name='satan665']What type of build are you making for your main character?[/quote]

I've been trying to keep him well balanced. A lot of the demons I bring with me tend to be the same. You just don't know what you'll run into, so I've been trying to keep it so no monster has any real specific advantage over me.

I have Mana Drain, which, aside from Life Drain (HP and MP, but I don't know if the main character can even learn it) is the best thing ever. I've kept Media, which is very useful as he gains levels. Ice and Fire Breath, which are great because it attacks random enemies onscreen and can attack a single one two to three times resulting in some nice damage.

I've also kept anti-death because 1.) I am using a magatama that voids expel but is very weak to death spells and 2.) I am freaking tired of randomly dying.

[Mitch]

I think I'll definitely buy this game, but right now it would be a waste to do so. I've already got [i]Disgaea[/i] to beat, and I've got [i]San Andreas[/i], too. So I'll just wait until I beat them. . .if I ever do.

I don't know. I'm pretty busy at this point, and the games that are coming out nowadays just don't compare to the older ones at all.

A while ago I was at my friend Ryan's house and we were playing [i]Super Mario All Stars[/i], and it was so fun. We also played [i]Donkey Kong Country[/i] and whatever other SNES games I own. Lots of fun despite how old they are.

I've been wanting to get this game since it came out, though. What I'm wondering is, is it hard to find? If I just go up to my local Gamestop, will they have it?

Perhaps I will just buy it now. . .I don't know. I do have the money.

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE=Mitch]I've been wanting to get this game since it came out, though. What I'm wondering is, is it hard to find? If I just go up to my local Gamestop, will they have it?

Perhaps I will just buy it now. . .I don't know. I do have the money.[/QUOTE]

From most accounts I've heard, the game will be tough to find. Atlus only released a certain number of copies, and individual stores didn't get too many of them (I forget what the exact number was, but I think someone mentioned it in the thread earlier). But, yeah, you might have a hard time finding it, though I don't know how many people where you live would be buying Nocturne lol.

[Mitch]

[quote name='Shinmaru']From most accounts I've heard, the game will be tough to find. Atlus only released a certain number of copies, and individual stores didn't get too many of them (I forget what the exact number was, but I think someone mentioned it in the thread earlier). But, yeah, you might have a hard time finding it, though I don't know how many people where you live would be buying Nocturne lol.[/quote]

Thanks for that Shinny boy.

My question to Tony is, then, if I can't get it here, what's a reliable site to order it off of? Or can I even order it? Are the copies so limited it's impossible to find at this point, and I'll have to pay some vast sum on ebay? :p

[satan665]

Amazon or EBgames should be fine I would think, they are reputable enough and probably have a few copies.

Man I am really getting into the crazy part of this game. Everyone is starting to have their own reason, and not terribly benevolent if I might say so myself. Very interesting things have been happening with every human character in the game so far.

I also managed to fuse to make Hell Biker, who I love because he's silly more so than really useful. What I found out when I fused him though is that fusions can be dependent on what the current phase of the "moon" is. I had to be at 7/8 to fuse to get him, and I think it took a Holy and a Divine demon. Nothings more fun than ramming bad guys with a motorcycle though.

[Semjaza]

Yeah, Amazon, Gamestop and EBGames would be fine. I got mine through Gamestop... Used copies are going on eBay for around $25 currently. I expect that will go up shortly once Atlus runs out of copies... I have no idea how well this game is selling, honestly.

[quote name='satan665']I also managed to fuse to make Hell Biker, who I love because he's silly more so than really useful. What I found out when I fused him though is that fusions can be dependent on what the current phase of the "moon" is. I had to be at 7/8 to fuse to get him, and I think it took a Holy and a Divine demon. Nothings more fun than ramming bad guys with a motorcycle though.[/quote]

Fusing Fiends is fun, just because its so tempermental. Moon cycle when I did it was Full, so I was only able to bother with that bell guy, who I like anyway.

I've not gotten to play this in a few days... I've played some Shadow Hearts: Coventant, which while very good, doesn't really compare to this game in my opinion (the story is okay, but all it really does with it is have lots of talking characters... little has happened in the 8 hours I've played, really). Battle systems in every other RPG seem painfully slow after this game lol.