Anime Shingeshutan Tsukihime, history and differences. [Major spoilers]

[stormy001_m1a2]

A 12 episode anime that aired earlier this year, a truly wasted potential at that. I have the luck and honour to play the game, which took Japan by storm in 2000.

I felt there must be a thread to explain the nuances of the game and anime difference. If the Rondo-Robe follows the gamestory well, this thread will be unneccessary. Thanks to their incompetence though, many viewers left with lots of question marks over it's important plots in the anime.

Some of you might heard the doujin turn commercial group Typemoon, now considered as gods of doujin world of Japan right now. For those of who don't here is excellent history summary of Typemoon from another forum:...

-----------------------------

The anime actually made anime history as it was the first time an anime from a big-name anime production company was made based on a doujin game.

Technically, you can't call this as an "ero-game" nor a "hentai game" since it was never sold commercially. "Tsukihime" was a doujin game that entered into spotlight by the doujin group TYPE-MOON selling their game at a booth in Winter Comic Market 2000. It was an original game with both the writer and the artist being an amateur. What set them apart from the rest was that these two actually went to the lengths of quitting their actual jobs, selling off everything they owned, and for the writer - almost selling his organs on the black market, to concentrate their efforts into making a great game.

Word of mouth spread, but since this was a doujin game, you couldn't find them at normal game shops (which has an ero-game section)...the only places that had the game were either at the bi-annual Comic Market convention, on TYPE-MOON's homepage, or at doujin specialty shops. Needless to say, these were very hard to find - an amateur group cannot go out and press CD-ROMs as much as commercial companies due to a limited budget, so there were very limited pressings. Since this was a doujin game, the price was also very reasonable compared to commercial ero-games, which furthered the frenzy.

By the summer of next year, TYPE-MOON couldn't keep up with the amount of orders that kept coming in their homepage (no doujin group would ever imagine their work to be such a big hit so they were filling their orders by hand) that they had to buy three dot-matrix printers to fill out the orders (there is a very funny short-manga about this). By this time, TYPE-MOON needed money to make more pressings to keep up with demand. This was around the time when top toy/figurine makers and big-anime shops started contacting TYPE-MOON for obtaining licensing to make Tsukihime figurines and trading cards. (I guess the best comparison I can think of is a group of two people in America making their own game in their own house, which became an instantaneous hit that they were suddenly are contacted by Mattel to make toys from that game.)

Now TYPE-MOON had the money to make more pressings and a larger budget to create more games. Hence, they released the "Tsukihime Plus-Disc" and the fun-disc "Kagetsu Touya," which was a game with countless routes of gags and amusement - all for a very cheap price.

By the time the next Winter Comike came around, TYPE-MOON, established themselves as only few have accomplished (Akamatsu Ken, CLAMP, Takahashi Rumiko) - to hit the peak of the doujin world. It is not everyday, moreso in Japan, to see an amateur work spawning a multimillion dollar revenue from figures, trading cards, promo CDs, etc. It isn't everyday that they see an entire section of doujin genre that was based on a doujin game itself - sure you see Final Fantasy doujinshis and doujin groups everywhere, but "Tsukihime?" That was a doujin game in itself!! It's like making a doujin out of a doujin. It also isn't everyday when they are approached by Geneon who wanted to make an anime out of their doujin work.

I'm sure they are glad by now they took the risk of quitting their dead-end jobs. The road may have been tough, but now they are considered to be gods by the doujin world, and one of the most sought-after writers/artists in the professional world. TYPE-MOON landed a multi-million dollar deal with Kodansha to re-release their old doujin novel "Kara no Kyoukai" commercially (slated for this summer). With profits, licensee margins, royalties from games, anime, toys, and publishing - there was no reason not to go pro. So, in the summer of 2003 - they ended their doujin activities and created their own commercial company TYPE-MOON Inc.

This January, they released their first game as pros - "Fate/stay night." Needless to say, it made ero-game history (it's now "ero-game" since this was a commercial product) as it bumped off Key's "AIR" record in total amount of sales - 106,000 copies in one month (this is a very large number considering it is an ero-game). Speculation is that since the "Fate/stay night" soundtrack is sold and distributed exclusively by Geneon once again, that there are already talks of "Fate/stay night" being animated.

Credits: kj1980

-----------------------------

Now I shall talk about what is difference between game and anime plots. As standard disclaimer, this will be spoilers galore:

[SPOILERS]

In the gamestory, Shiki is already in Tohno's Manor for sometime before he met Arcuied in the fateful encounter that make him lost control and slice her up in 17 pieces. The anime and manga make a very crucial error by showing Shiki met her 1st before he residing in Tohno's home.

Hisui and Kokaku Houjyo is Synchronizers, people who have gift to heal and transfer energy thru body transfer aka sex. The anime short length unable to talk about this 2 contrasting twin which is understandable, here, they actually have very tragic story in the visual novel/game. When they were young, they brought in the Tohno clan by Akiha's father specifically to be raped by him so he can calm his demonic side. Tohno's ancestors have mix demonic vampire blood within them to gain power and to disguise this fact from public eyes, they will go as far as kill any of their own member who lost control and becomes an archfiend. Hisui was spared from the rape because Kohaku volunteered herself to protect Hisui from sexual aggression by Makisha Tohno ( Akiha's father) so later on, she is actually a vengeful maid who intend to tear down the Tohno clan by herself. She specializes in drugs and medicine; she grew many plants in the backyard. For sometime she has been weakening Akiha with her drugs and Shiki too, when he come back to the household by spiking their drinks. She fed Shiki with hallucinogen to make him lost his mind so he will end kill Akiha when he becomes an instinctual killer. But instead of going after Akiha as intended by Kohaku, Arcuied cross the line first and Shiki switched into Nanaya the Killer, slice her up in 17 pieces in an ambush at her apartment. The anime did not make sense as showing Arcuied running away from a mere human as she is the most powerful being on Earth. In the gamestory, Shiki stalked her until her apartment and ambush her in one swoop. She did not have time to react at all as it happens so fast.

Shiki comes from an extinct family of Nanaya, whom all of them have the Eye of Death Perception. Nanayas been hunting demons and vampires thru out history and they use their talent to slice things up fast and efficiently. One night, Tohno clan ambush Nanaya family and extinguish all of them except for Shiki whom Makisha's whim decided to spare because he has same name as his son. Also, he felt that having a Nanaya within his family will create a balance and check system, in case of his 2 child becomes an archfiend. Shiki was brainwashed and he able fit in happily in the Tohno's household until one day, Rhoa, a Dead Apostle come and possessed the original Shiki and made him stab the 2nd Shiki while they playing outside. Akiha saved the 2nd Shiki by giving half of her energy, so she created an invisible bond between them. Makisha decided for some strange reason, to send 2nd Shiki to Arima household to recuperate and grow up while execute his own son which however did not happen because he loved his original son.

[End of Part 1}

I will post Part 2 later.

[stormy001_m1a2]

The origins of vengeance warrior from the Church
-----------------------------------------------------------

Among the Tsukihime characters, she is the most fascinating character, afterall a nun with 3 swords in one hand standing on a power pole bathed in ambiance of full moon is a striking visual.

She is Ciel and been around for 200 years, seeking Rhoa in order to kill him.

In 18th century France, Ciel is just a normal girl working in her family's bakery shop when one day a malevolent spirit recairnated within her. She becomes 17th Rhoa manifestation and proceeds to destroy everything that she love when she is still human. Not only that, she raped all the males in the village in a bloody orgy and kill them after she is done with them. At that point, Arcuied arrives at the burning village and 2 adversaries fought each other in bitter contest. In the end, Ciel/Rhoa was defeated and her body was left to rot amongst the destruction and death that she caused earlier.

Even after Rhoa's spirit left her now battered body, something strange happens. Ciel did not die and recovers from the ordeal, stricken with anguish and sadness that known no bounds. She went to the Church to repent and the Church recognizing her as dangerous being, try to exorcise her by all punishment they can think off. Nothing works, since she simply did not die at all. The organization gave up and take her in to be a member of Burial Squad, a spec ops demon hunters sanctioned by the Church. Codenamed BOW, she mastered 2 peculiar techniques, Key which is her famous swords and 7th Holy Scripture, a demon killer big cannon like powered by her familliar, Seven or Nanako. The trident looks stupid to me, the one she uses in the anime.

There's a complicated reason why Ciel can't die too, but to put it simple, nature is acting against her death, to fix the paradox. It has to do with her high magical potential that she has and she can't die unless Roa is killed. Since Arcuied killed her before, she also dislikes the Progenitor Princess immensely thus they always at each other's throat whenever they met.

Her story in the game was basically that she wanted to die, to atone for what she did when she is Rhoa's host but she realizes there is still hope when she met Shiki in the gamestory.

As you can see, Ciel is a fascinating character and hugely wasted in non-sensical parts like fighting over Shiki in the amusement park in the anime.

[stormy001_m1a2]

Princess of Progenitors/True Ancestors

The main heroine of the series, Arcuied Brunestud who appears like a very happy go lucky, trippy persona but has a dark monster lurking within her.

Created 800 years ago by other True Ancestors, she is meant to be ultimate weapon of destruction and punishment on the Fallen or Demon Lords and other errant Dead Apostles, serving the True Ancestor's/Progenitor's cause. Powerfull and unapologetic in war, she is feared even by those who created her. She is hailed as Princess of Progenitors thanks to her prowess in combat and war. However her existence is lonely and no one wants to talk to her because they consider her as a "weapon" not a living being.

Fallen is the True Ancestors who taken the dark path of sucking human blood as food, thus they're very powerfull as they do not use any strength to supress their blood hunger. True Ancestors or Progenitors is beings created in reaction to human presence, to create a sort of balance. You can say they are something like true children of Gaia, the Mother Nature. They can choose to suck human blood or they can also subsist on normal food and go into daylight without fear. The reason why True Ancestors is not as powerfull as Fallen ones is because they have to use most of the power to keep the blood cravings down so they created Arcuied as their protector. Dead Apostles is human beings who taken oath to serve their respective True Ancestors by drinking their master's blood in order to be immortal at the price that they have to suck human blood in order to keep their body parts from rotting after being immortal. However very few of human is capable to a Dead Apostles, since it has to do with genetic link. The Tsukihime world has rankings regarding about this, when a human been bitten by vampire.....Zombie -> Ghoul -> Vampire -> Dead Apostle.

Some Dead Apostle achieve this cursed or hallowed status by researching into arcane knowledges, like for example, Nero Chaos become one after researching on immortality for long time.

She is said to be capable of awesome speed which looks like teleportation to our naked eyes and her claws can slice thru things like hot knife on the butter. Her most awesome skill is Marble Phantasm, a skill where she can create any kind of reality as she wants it in shape, form or reaction. To give an idea, the castle that seen in the OP in the anime is materialized out of her thought alone.

Rhoa, a Dead Apostle courtier whom lusts after Arcuied's power and herself, one day decided to "poison" her with human blood turning her into a Demon Lord and as the result she went into bloody rage, killing almost all True Ancestors/Progenitors in one night. After she is awaken from her bloodlust, she swore revenge on Rhoa and been hunting him down for few centuries. When Rhoa manifested himself into a human host, she will be there to kill it which what happens in Ciel's case.

In the gamestory she fell in love with Shiki and many times she asked him to be her servant by sucking her blood which he categorically refused. The reason why she is so weak is because thanks to Shiki's attack, she has to recuperate and regenerate which consume a lot of her power. She also suffering from blood thrist, since she is weaker and unable to supress her vampiristic need.

Shiki felt responsible so he decided to help her no matter what, even she is supposedly an evil being with great power. Shiki's positive and kindly atitude is the one that makes him tick with the girls, even with Arcuied which is a sharp contrast to the anime version which makes him look like pseudo Shinji from Evangelion.

This is the backstory on Arcuied.

[stormy001_m1a2]

Shiki "Nanaya" Tohno

The hero of the story, the anime version shown him as indecisive, weak minded and generally a wuss. Unfortunately, the gamestory version of Shiki is way better than anime's Shiki as you going about to read on. As I wrote earlier on, he came from a family of killers known as Nanaya which was wiped out by Tohno clan one night. Before it happens, his biological father, which his name escaped me now had already tought the young Shiki every aspect of Nanaya martial arts. His original father is a well renowned killer in the underground world and he use just 2 sticks as assassination tool.

When the incident in the garden happens, Akiha saved him by giving half of her lifeforce to Shiki which explained later as to why both is suffering debalitating health problems. The original Shiki stabbed our hero Shiki and somehow they too share the connection, so both Shikis sharing life force from each other. It is widely believed especially by Ciel that adopted Shiki Tohno could be the next vessel for Rhoa since both of them sharing telepathic connection in life force so transition is easier. So in the gamestory, Ciel's original goal is kill the hero Shiki and few times Rhoa did try to manifest himself in hero Shiki since the malovent spirits sensed this is better human host then crazed original Shiki. Shiki's gift maybe a curse, since everytime that he uses his Eye of Death Perception, he is suffering from severe headache and bad dreams.

When he come back to Tohno's Manor after staying with Arima's for 8 years, his headache and nightmare become more frequent, especially dreams of seeing murders and blood. All of these thanks to Kohaku who not only fed him with hallucinogens, she also always whisper into his ears when he is asleep to satisfy her agenda, making him losing control of himself. Shiki hidden persona, Killer Nanaya is very different from usually warm and kind version. Killer Nanaya always have ths perpetual smirk and his eyes is cold. The easiest explaination is he has split personality disorder.

One of the darkest part of his character that Nanaya personality unfortunately have insatiable taste to kill, even the idea of killing innocent people is not a taboo to him. The most chilling scene in the game is when he met another serial killer in backstreets of Tokyo and have a banter that talks non chalantly about taking lives and laugh about it. This is when he is the persona of Nanaya and sneak out in the night to murder some people just to satisfy his craving to kill which in other words, no different from normal serial murderer. However when comes to kill demons, this ruthless, taunting and cold personality is useful indeed.

So from here, not only Shiki has to fight against original Shiki Tohno, resisting Rhoa's possession, he also have to fight against the evil personality of Nanaya Shiki within himself deseperately to retain any hope of decent humanity. To top that, his health is not in top shape, he often have to rest a lot on bed due to severe headache and endless coughs. Yet, he still a warm, positive and very humane person, as Maslow put it, self actualized personality which makes him an irresistable male to most females. He is known for always playing prank on his maid, Hisui by asking her to cook impossible things since she is a bad cooker to make her express more since she is so expressionless. He felt responsible for Arcuied's condition, so he decided to help her even he knew she is a vampire, not because of Satsuk's perceived deathi as depicted in the anime. He still regarded Ciel as kind senior even she tries to kill him and horrified when he found out about Ciel's deathwish so he decided to help her is among some of the his agapee like personality manifestation.

One of the saddest scene in the game is when Satsuki becomes a vampire , 3 days after the hotel massacare. She always love Shiki and wants Shiki to be vampire so they can be together forever. She confronted him in the alley, intend to bite him so to turn him into one. Shiki however, realises that this is wrong because it will cost many innocent lives just to be together so he kill Satsuki which she is glad because it is him that terminate her suffering.

He knew how sucky death is, and is determined to live his life to the fullest. The anime did not make any justice to Shiki, as showing him as indecisive and a wuss.

Thanks to a certain Magi who Shiki met when he is recovering from incident, he is taught by her the consequences of his gift and also she is the one who gave Shiki the spectacles that blocks his death vision. She is Aoko Aozaki, one of the rare real Arch Magi of the world in Tsukihime which the membership is only 5. She is the only person whom Shiki address her as Sensei, a mark of genuine respect from him. As to why she met Shiki is up to speculation though but my thinking is she knew that Shiki will shake the secret world of Tsukihime. It is hinted in the epilogue of the game which happens many years after the Tsukihime main story where they met again under the same tree,a much more matured Shiki is exhausted from apparently another hint of big war that involves the Church, the Alchemist Guild, the Council of Magis and the Dead Apostles. She was asking him what is he going to do since it is all over and Shiki replied he not sure yet. You can only access into epilogue after you finish all the 5 stories in the game. Off course in the anime, Aoko did not say much beyond "Is that so?" which did not really reflect her mystical but memorable appearence.

[stormy001_m1a2]

Akiha Tohno

The matron of a very powerful clan, the Tohnos who is basically used to be local landlords in old times. She is stern yet very attached and also a girl with impeccable pride plus haughty dignity but do have some innate kindness. Yes, Shiki can choose to have her if he wanted to, and she is more than willing to respond back. Her most powerfull quote is " I don't want to be your pseudo sister anymore, I want to us to be man and woman, together" or something like that. Her story path in game will be not be in discussion as it is out of scope from this thread.

However, secretly she is suffering from severe constriction on her humanity by her half demonic blood within her, thanks to the fact that she is also sharing her life force with adopted Shiki after he saved her from her deranged brother attack in the garden incident which weaken her ability to supress the demonic urge. By the time hero Shiki arrive at Tohno's Manor, her degradation is in advanced stage and not even Kohaku's sychronizing can help much. To outside eyes, it looks like she is suffering from bouts of illness and fainting spells. It is caused by presence of original Shiki who is somehow "distrupts" her lifeforce which also in the end affect hero Shiki's health too. Off course her personal maid very betrayal ensure that her descending into demonic path wil be inevitable.

She is the one who stopped Kohaku's sexual abuse by her father when she find about it. And to the end, she always regarded Kohaku as good friend, not as maid.

Akiha's feeling towards hero Shiki is agapee love, and she tried very hard to hide the fact that he is the one is that she have deep feelings for. When hero Shiki is coming back to the Manor, she actually quit her prestigious boarding school and come back to her home. She go to same school as hero Shiki on pretext of watching over him and gets very upset when hero Shiki did not go or coming back to school together. She tries to restict hero Shiki in the mansion itself, as if she only wants him to be her sole possession.

When hero Shiki was sent away to Arima and her own brother was prisoned underground, she led lonely life under strict supervision by her father and did not have much freedom of anything else. Only her hope to see hero Shiki in future again sustain her and it is not surprise when it happens, she did go little overboard of pretext on protecting Shiki from "dangerous" elements. She also a bit sensitive about comments on her chest size, especially after when she saw Arcuied whom she considered as rival for her affections on Shiki.

In the story arc that anime follows, Akiha is relegated to supporting role. Her ability is manifested as Archfiend when her hair turns into crimson red, she can literally burn anyone with her radius with aura fire combustion. Her hair can form a binding cage and she also can suck people's lifeforce away if she choose to do so. In Kohaku's story of the game, you will see this dangerous side of Akiha.

[densuke]

[b]Every single time a game is adapted into anime[/b], fans of the game complain about the adaptation - the character design is different, the storyline is different, etc. They tend to condemn the anime to the extent that someone who had not seen it might think that the anime is just not worth watching.

Shows which make the game fans happiest seem to be the ones which really don't succeed as standalone works. These are usually OAVs which simply bring the characters in to play out little vignettes, ignoring most storytelling values. Although these OAVs sell to their target fanbase, they offer very little to anyone who does not know the specific game.

Casual viewers appreciate the better-rounded adaptations on their own merits as self-contained stories. This is the purpose of such adaptation - to create something for a general audience.

Shingetsutan Tsukihime certainly succeeds as the latter - many people found it to be a very good series. Because it ran for only 12 episodes it could hardly fit within itself the contents of a game that takes something like 40 hours to play to just one ending.

[Dagger]

This is really fantastic information, and I'm sure any fan of Shingetsutan Tsukihime will be interested in reading it. However, OtakuBoards does not permit double-posting [i]under any circumstances[/i] (I'm sure I've told you this before... -_-). I may keep your replies separate simply because merging them would result in something absolutely gargantuan and difficult to follow... I'll probably need to consult with the other mods before making any kind of final decision.

The next time you want to post material that must span multiple replies, please wait for another member to respond rather than double, triple or quadruple-posting. If you're really in a hurry, try PMing one of the mods or someone you know who is a fan of the show(s) in question. Chances are, they'll be quite happy to post so that you can have your say afterwards.

--------------------

I was pretty satisfied with Shingetsutan Tsukihime's plot. Only one character (Aoko) seemed blatantly out of place, and considering that the series had a limited amount of time in which to tell a rather complicated story, it did a decent job of keeping things understandable and relatively consistent.

Of course, I watched Tsukihime for its beautiful music and unique atmosphere, and I didn't learn about the game until I'd finished the show. So I guess it makes sense that fans of the game would be somewhat disappointed with the anime. I liked the characters very much, particularly Shiki; I have trouble concurring with your comments about his personality. I just don't see how the show's creators could possibly have done more than hinted at his.... er, schizophrenia (which they definitely did). It would have distracted from the central love story.

From looking over what you've said, I get the impression that the Tsukihime anime could easily have encompassed thirty or forty episodes. How long would you have wanted it to be?

~Dagger~

[stormy001_m1a2]

I dunno man, but anime Shiki just left a bad taste in my mouth as he is not shown properly. Yes, Tsukihime is a love story which is fine to me, but the Nanaya aspect of Shiki is crucial to show why he is a [I]hero[/I], not just some Love Hina's Keitaro rip off. The very omission of that is a bad idea. Arcuied's dignity is long gone after episode 4 of the anime and Ciel is painfully sidelined into insignificant background prop. Each Tsukihime story took me 8 hours to finish, and I felt a 26 ep will do justice to the such deep story. A lot of Tsukihime fans in Japan, is bitterly disappionted with the anime. Kensuke, I think you're wrong. It is not because I want a stand alone, exclusive OVAs, I do think that if the studio follow the gamestory in verbatim, it will do well. I don't mind a retelling of the story in anime form, as long they follow it well. Kinda like why most people happy when Peter Jackson did good job at adapting the novels into the movie.

Kinoko Nasu, the writer, started the story with Kara no Kyokai, which it is main story where Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime branches from. I am looking foward to read the novel soon.

I might write about Fate/Stay Night soon. A story where King Arthur, Hercules, Gilgamesh, Hassan Al Sabah and Medusa fought each other is bound to be interesting.

[densuke]

Hehe, [i]Kensuke wa dare desu ka?[/i]

I don't deny you your right to complain about the TV series. It's not like you spoil my enjoyment of a series I have already seen. And you took the time to make your case, which is a big improvement on most posts of this kind.

I just don't find it uncommon among game fans to do this sort of thing (and I already said this happens all the time; why would I be surprised about Japanese fans of this particular game?).

For a current series, complaints by game fans can definitely clutter up a discussion thread; one group of viewers is describing something [i]that isn't there[/i] and accusing the series of doing things others [i]cannot see[/i]. The other group is hoping that the particular show can get a coherent story told without leaning too much on the game.

Also I doubt that game fans really want to make any given series sound like an absolute waste of time. Terms like "truly wasted potential" are very uncompromising and are likely to drive away people who might watch the series and even move on to the game.