Angel: Series Finale

[Solidus Snake]

[FONT=Garamond][COLOR=RoyalBlue][SIZE=2]I was wondering what all Angel fans out there think will happen in the end? Who will die as the advertisement for next weeks episode said. Also, please share your thoughts on the series as a whole. I personally think that it will be Wesley or Gunn who will die. Simply because they both have been known to go headlong into a fight and this is the biggest it will get. All in all I think this is a great way of ending the Angel series with a bang, one final fight against a seemingly impossible to defeat opponent. Please feel free to write whatever you want, as long as it's in the boundry of rules.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Anyone might die. It might be Angel himself. He was prophesized to become a human or something.
I think the series finale will be pretty sloppy. The problem is, the show wasn't ready to come to a conclusion so quickly. There's a bit too much to wrap up at this point.

Overall, it's been a decent show. I'm glad it hasn't gone downhill the way Buffy did. I simply couldn't bear to watch the last season of that nightmare. Angel, apart from last season, has been pretty good (Cordelia was just plain [i]bad[/i], though, so I was glad when she left.)

[Xander Harris]

Yeah, the final story arc feels incredibly rushed. The Alyria-centric episode a couple episode's back had Star-Trek level bad writing. It was practically unwatchable. Thankfully, the style and skill we've come to expect from these creators came back with tonight's episode. But it still feels rushed. Taking out a foe this big would have occupied Angel or Buffy an entire season or more in the good old days. Now they have to do it in one episode, thanks to the stupid muckety-mucks at WB. I wonder if some of the talk in tonight's episode about 'The Powerful' was aimed at the WB execs...

I also liked the darker tone this episode had. The moral shades of grey and the film noir grittiness are back. Thank goodness, after the ludicrous silliness of last weeks Italian fling.

David says he won't do any more Angel after this; he wants to take what he learned from the role and move on. But James Marsters would love to keep playing Spike. So, what they need to do, is make a show about Spike. He could be a travelling agent, like was suggested earlier in the season. It would be great! I can't wait to see what Alexis does next. He has been absolutely incredible as Wesley this year. I think he should be the next James Bond.

Does anyone know if Whedon is directing the final episode or not?

[StrikeGundam]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Anyone might die. It might be Angel himself. He was prophesized to become a human or something.[/quote][color=navy][/color]
[color=navy]Exactly what I was thinking. The prophecy (Shanshu, I think it was called) was initially translated by Wesley to say that Angel would die, and then he clarified it to say that he would become human. My guess is that both must the former must happen in order for the latter to take place. If not, my money is on Harmony.[/color]

[Manic Webb]

I doubt Spike will be the one to go. There's a limit on how many times a person can die and come back to life... unless you're Buffy or Darla. And Spike's the kind of character that, if he dies, won't stay dead for very long. That, and isn't he already just a corporeal ghost?

I think it's interesting how Illyria came off as such a "big-bad preparing to strike" during her portion of the season, but she's probably not going to pay a big part in the finale at all. She's a loose end that, thanks to an unexpected cancellation, may never get tied. I was looking forward to them fighting her and it ultimately ending in some sort of climactic finale to end all finales. Eh, but she just proceeded to be a pain in Wesley's rump. I'll give the writers this much: Illyria's role in the show is all but predictable.

I'll have to agree that I think the "death" might be Angel's. My guess is that it'll end with his death and won't show him shanshuing into a human. I wouldn't be surprised if the rebirth of Liam (Angel's pre-vampire name) was going to be saved for next year's season premier.

One thing I'm almost sure of, though, is that this finale will have bitter-sweet written all over it. Angel has yet to have a season end with a real "happy ending" and I don't think this season will be any different.

[Monkey_Orange]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][QUOTE]I think the series finale will be pretty sloppy. The problem is, the show wasn't ready to come to a conclusion so quickly. There's a bit too much to wrap up at this point. [/QUOTE]

I agree, and am quite upset about that as well. I reall wanted to see more development in the story--heck, they didn't even wrap up the prophecy with Connor.

Honestly, I thought that this Season would be great--with twists and turns in the story and then, I find out it's getting cancelled. I'm pretty sure that was how it was for Joss. He still had SO many things he wanted to do with this show, and then 'they' decided to suddenly pull the plug. And now, Joss has to quickly wrap it up--which is bound to be messy and 'undeserving' for the show :flaming: . If only they had more time! I was totally expecting more connections with Buffy for the finale. But, I guess THAT won't be happening. :mad:

[QUOTE]Angel, apart from last season, has been pretty good (Cordelia was just plain bad, though, so I was glad when she left.)[/QUOTE]

I didn't think she was THAT bad. I was kinda sad when they story just ended her character in the fashion that they did. I expected a bit more from her role. Ah well.

We shall all see what happens this coming Wednesday ^^ The end *sniffle*
[/COLOR]

[buffy_boy_]

Ok here is what I think will happen......I think either Gunn or Wesly will die because they wouldn't kill Angel (they never kill the person who is in the title), Lorne is VERY hard to kill and Spike is imposible to kill. That is my guess. By the way, anyone know if Whedon is finally wake up and start Ripper (Gile's show (yes Dylan.))????
And I also don't think that Illyria is actually dead. Because I love Illyria too much for her to die....like Buffy and Spike.

[Xander Harris]

I'm fairly certain the Ripper project died...

I hope they don't kill Wesley, just 'cause I love that character. I would love to see Gunn finally die, though. Actually, I think it will be Wesley who goes. He's been slowly dying inside ever since Fred was killed... I think that's foreshadowing of his fate. He's overcome his little drunken episode, got himself back together, time to go out like a hero. Gunn already got his heroic death in the basement with the monster. He doesn't need the heroic death spotlight again. I personally hate Illyria (even though she looks cool) because I think she is a second-rate Anya.

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Manic]

I'll have to agree that I think the "death" might be Angel's. My guess is that it'll end with his death and won't show him shanshuing into a human. I wouldn't be surprised if the rebirth of Liam (Angel's pre-vampire name) was going to be saved for next year's season premier.[/QUOTE]
The episode on wednesday is not the season finale, it's the [b]series[/b] finale. There is no next year's season premier.

[Shy]

[quote name='buffy_boy_'](they never kill the person who is in the title)[/quote]
[size=1]They killed Buffy twice, you might recall...

-Shy[/size]

[KitsuneTsuki]

:crying:

I was never into Buffy. I never watched Angel until January 2003 when I was living with my sister. She got me hooked on it. I go over to her house every Wednesday night to watch it. What are we to do now? It was so hard waiting for the new season to start... now 'They' go and cancel on me! It's just not fair!!!!

:crying:

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='Harry]The episode on wednesday is not the season finale, it's the [b]series[/b'] finale. There is no next year's season premier.[/quote]
I'm well aware. I actually referred to the series as being cancelled in the same post. As for me saying "season" instead of "series"... force of habit. I tend to say "final season finale" or just "season finale" even when a show has been cancelled. I made the reference to an imaginary next season because Joss commented that the cancellation would have no effect on this season's finale, and they would continue with little or no changes in the script. Meaning this series finale was probably going to be written with another season in mind-- one that will never happen.

[Xander Harris]

Warning: a few minor spoilers ahead.

Angel came to a close tonight. It was a good way to end the series, but it was too damn rushed. The powers that be pulled the plug halfway through this season, despite record ratings. They will be replacing it with, get this, a gothic drama about Vampires! Wow, I think I heard of a show like that once... what was it called? Oh, yeah, ANGEL!!! Cancel a brilliant show, and replace it with a clone. That makes a hell of a lot of sense. I didn't like the ending of Angel at first, but in retrospect, would you really want Angel to live happily ever after? This was a totally punk rock way to go out. Classic last line, too.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Angel season ender. But it really needed to be spread out over more episodes... the Black Thorn thing needed to be built up more... Wesley's fight with the Wizard needed to be longer: we've never really seen an all out spell-duel in the Buffy-verse before and I was kind of looking forward to it...

But it leaves so much more story to tell. After Angel and company [spoiler]die[/spoiler], what happens? The senior partners overrun LA? And then the world? Don't the Slayers get a chance to help out? I feel a good idea for an RPG coming on :-)

And, like I said earlier, it all happened far too quickly. But the bit with Lorne (SP?) was great. And [spoiler]Wesley's death[/spoiler]. I finally sort of could stand Aleria (SP? again).

[Amorphous]

[size=1][color=crimson]Well... actually yes it was just rushed, to rushed and now there wont be any more episodes. I'm sad actually for the most part, one of my favorite T.V. series ever is being cancelled. But I thought that wasn't the last episode, if it is, that kind of sucks.. at least another episode worth of demon slaying would be nice I guess and few more twist but I guess that isn't happening. Well cheers to an amazing series end. [/color][/size]

[Manic Webb]

Okay, help me out. [spoiler]Was Spike's poem the same poem he told that one girl the night Drusilla sired him? I think it had the same made-up word ending it.[/spoiler]

I wasn't expecting a happy ending to the series (heavens, no), but this was a pure shock to my system. I'm on the edge of my seat, sitting closer and closer to the screen, getting ready for something big to happen, and you can imagine my surprise when [spoiler]Wolfram and Hart sent out a legion of demons (and a dragon) out to kill them, and the episode ends abruptly before the final fight of their lives even begins[/spoiler]. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. A little disappointing, but (and I give the writers this much credit despite their flaws) I didn't see it coming.

It was rushed, though. Very rushed. This episode would've been 10 times better if it had been stretched out, say, over the span of 10 episodes. I especially loved [spoiler]Illyria beginning to come to terms with her feelings for Wesley. I'll be frank with you. I had a hunch she loved him. It probably has a lot to do with her mind being meshed with Fred's, but still. Also, I wanted to see more of the new Connor. All of the memories of the old Connor, with the personality of an average college student. It's not often you get to see him crack a joke... actually, I don't think he's ever cracked a joke in his tragic little life.

Yeah, they should've shown more of Wesley's magic fight. Actually, they should've shown more of everyone's fights. What did we get? A shot of them walking into the room of demons they were assigned to kill, and a shot of them standing over their demonic dead bodies. I'd like to know how Spike's fight went, wouldn't you? And Illyria's fight. And Lindsey's. In fact, the only fight we got a good look at was Angel's.

"Their blood flows through me"? Jeeze, even I knew Angel was going to bite him after he said that. In my humble opinion, Angel should drain the blood of more of his enemies. He never seems to have a problem with that, even if he can't take them in a fight.

Alas, poor Lorne. I knew running with Angel's crew would take its toll on him, and he's finally had it. It's sad to see him go out like that, but the guy is a performer, not a fighter. You can tell he wants to do the right thing, but this was all too crazy for him. It's really something to see, because nobody else in the Buffyverse has ever walked out on the team like that before. They've turned evil (Faith, Angelus, Cordelia, Wesley), ended a messy relationship (Angel, Riley, Anya, Oz), died (Anya, Doyle, Cordelia, Fred), but they've never just [i]abandoned[/i] the group.[/spoiler]

All in all, a good episode. But like I said before, it woud've been a whole lot greater if it had all taken place over the course of [i]several[/i] episodes instead of one.

[Monkey_Orange]

[quote name='Xander Harris]But it leaves so much more story to tell. After Angel and company [spoiler]die[/spoiler'], what happens? [/quote]

[COLOR=Orange]Although, one can infer that [I]possible[/I] ending--it isn't certain. I'm saying that because I don't want it to be certain. The ending leaves room for many possibilites. Who knows, maybe in like a year or so, they'll create a mini-series to tie up loose ends [which sometimes happens to shows that get 'suddenly' cancelled--like the Prentender and Farscape]. So yes, it's not certain.

Indeed the ending of the series was rushed on such short notice. I expected SO much more from this show. There are still many loose ends in the story to tie up. And honestly, I was kinda expecting more involvement from the 'Buffy' gang in helping Angel to defeat the evil Partners. Sadly, conflicting schedules and lack of resources prevented this from happening. It would've been great to be able to somewhat connect Angel to 'Buffy' seeing at how it's the spin-off. And now, both shows are retired. *sad*

In my heart [and as a 'Buffy' fan] I've always hoped that in end Angel and Buffy will finally be together. And darnit, it could've happened once he fulfilled the prophecy. But no...the writer had to cram the story! So THAT was pretty much swept to the side. You see, it could've happened because it was [I]perfectly[/I] set up!!! Buffy is no longer the ONLY slayer--so her responsibities are minimized. And Angel would finally become human! And they'd finally be together after all thing horrid things they've been through. *sad*

It reminds me of an episode from season 1, when Buffy visisted Angel in LA. He briefly become human, and was finally able to be happy with Buffy. Sadly, it didn't work. Time was reversed and he was forever forced to be the only with with the memories of those few days of perfect happiness. Even Buffy didn't remember--so she left LA being kinda mad at him ~_~ And once again, Angel was heartbroken.

Ahh well. Enough of my rambling. I will miss you, Angel!

[/COLOR]

[Xander Harris]

Well, Monkey_Orange, I actually liked what they did with the prophecy. [spoiler]Angel was forced to decide if destroying the black thorn, if making his great stand against the immortal forces of darkness, was worth sacrificing anything for. Before this, he only had to sacrifice others. Now, he was asked to sign away the thing that had sustained him for so long, and perhaps his chances with Buffy. To sacrifice any chance at personal happiness for the greater good. This season he has seen the extent of the Darkness in the world. He knew what he had to do. Signing that document was the single most heroic thing I have seen Angel do. Absolutely selfless. Good for good's sake. I think they should have resolved the prophecy that way even if Angel had more seasons to go. That episode you mention, Monkey_orange, was one of my favorites. I practically cried at the end of it.

All that said, I wonder if perhaps in a sequel Angel could still get his humanity. Now, he is not fighting for it. He is fighting for a higher purpose, and the prophecy magic may honor that, or even expect it. Perhaps the writers of the prophecy intended for the vampire with a soul to face a test in which he would chose between humanity and the fight against evil. If he chose the latter, he would be rewarded with humanity. Just an idea of how it could all eventually have a happy ending.

But I think no one really wants Angel to have a truly happy ending. The character's tragic nature is what makes him so interesting. No tragedy, no character.

I don't know the answer to your question about the poem, Manic. But I did like having that scene in there. Spike finally was able to do what he always wanted, get people to like his poems. Granted, they were all drunk, but I doubt Spike cared. ;)

Again, this would have been so much better if it were stretched out. The basic plot was great, it just needed more time to develop. I felt like they crammed a whole season into one episode.[/spoiler]

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Monkey_Orange][COLOR=Orange]Although, one can infer that [I]possible[/I] ending--it isn't certain. I'm saying that because I don't want it to be certain. The ending leaves room for many possibilites. Who knows, maybe in like a year or so, they'll create a mini-series to tie up loose ends [which sometimes happens to shows that get 'suddenly' cancelled--like the Prentender and Farscape]. So yes, it's not certain.

Indeed the ending of the series was rushed on such short notice. I expected SO much more from this show. There are still many loose ends in the story to tie up. And honestly, I was kinda expecting more involvement from the 'Buffy' gang in helping Angel to defeat the evil Partners. Sadly, conflicting schedules and lack of resources prevented this from happening. It would've been great to be able to somewhat connect Angel to 'Buffy' seeing at how it's the spin-off. And now, both shows are retired. *sad*

In my heart [and as a 'Buffy' fan] I've always hoped that in end Angel and Buffy will finally be together. And darnit, it could've happened once he fulfilled the prophecy. But no...the writer had to cram the story! So THAT was pretty much swept to the side. You see, it could've happened because it was [I]perfectly[/I] set up!!! Buffy is no longer the ONLY slayer--so her responsibities are minimized. And Angel would finally become human! And they'd finally be together after all thing horrid things they've been through. *sad*

It reminds me of an episode from season 1, when Buffy visisted Angel in LA. He briefly become human, and was finally able to be happy with Buffy. Sadly, it didn't work. Time was reversed and he was forever forced to be the only with with the memories of those few days of perfect happiness. Even Buffy didn't remember--so she left LA being kinda mad at him ~_~ And once again, Angel was heartbroken.

Ahh well. Enough of my rambling. I will miss you, Angel!

[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm so glad Buffy wasn't in the final ending. I can't stand Buffy and I dont' want it to ruin Angel. The show was about Angel, not Buffy. If she showed up and her little slayerettes or whatever that could've easily ruined the show for me.

[Amorphous]

[quote name='Harry']I'm so glad Buffy wasn't in the final ending. I can't stand Buffy and I dont' want it to ruin Angel. The show was about Angel, not Buffy. If she showed up and her little slayerettes or whatever that could've easily ruined the show for me.[/quote]

[color=crimson][size=1] Actually I am very glad that she wasn't, I honestly think she and Willow ruined the episodes they were in, when they did those cameo apperances in the show. It just didn't work at all. Now as for Faith though, I think that she worked perfectly in Angel and even better then when she was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.[/color][/size]

[Nikorasu]

There's just one thing I really want to know. Did Angel [spoiler]get to slay the dragon? I really would have loved to see that. Too bad it ended before then, but I guess they wanted to spare us from seeing all of them die.[/spoiler]

[Amorphous]

[color=crimson][size=1]Nope there wasn't any slaying involved.[spoiler] It just ended at the hordes and hordes of evil demonic creatures all raging towards them in a crazed frenzy. For some reason I automatically thought of an opening scene of a war when all the monsters charged in Lord of the Rings, in the second movie anyways.[/spoiler] Did anyone else think of that?[/size][/color]

[Xander Harris]

Yes. I think, thematically, The Two Towers and the Angel season finale were very close. The whole fighting for the sake of fighting even when you know you will lose thing... I think the visual reference was intentional, actually, to underscore the theme.

[Nikorasu]

I know there was no slaying involved in [spoiler]that battle that was about to happen at the end[/spoiler], but no one really knows what happened to the characters when the credits started. Sure, they probably [spoiler]die, but it would be cool to think that Angel at least killed the dragon before that.[/spoiler]

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='Amorphous][color=crimson][size=1] Actually I am very glad that she wasn't, I honestly think she and Willow ruined the episodes they were in, when they did those cameo apperances in the show. It just didn't work at all. Now as for Faith though, I think that she worked perfectly in Angel and even better then when she was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.[/color'][/size][/quote]
I agree that Buffy's cameos only seemed to make episodes worse. I just never liked what her presence did to his character. I didn't like Angel when he was on her show, I didn't like Angel when she made cameos on his show, but I liked Angel as long as Buffy was nowhere in sight. Hell, Angel was in love with Cordelia, but she didn't whither him down to a de-fanged shell of his former self.

I think Willow's cameos, however, were well placed. They were usually very short, anyway. Cordelia calls her to ask about Harmony. That cameo lasted a good 5 minutes. She shows up to tell Angel Buffy killed herself. That cameo was a brief 10 seconds. Willow's only long cameo was the episode she re-ensouled Angel, and I enjoyed that episode. Her chemistry with Fred was funny.

I do wish, however, that Buffy would have at least appeared in the episode "The Girl In Question." I wanted to see Buffy and The Immortal, even if Angel and Spike never did catch up to them.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who liked Illyria. Most fans hate her because Fred's character had to [i]completely[/i] die in the process. But I saw so much potential in her character, especially after [spoiler]Wesley's death[/spoiler]. The same can be said for Kennedy (Willow's second girlfriend). They were only on their respective shows for one season (specifically the last season), and I think fans would've eventually warmed up to them. Goodness knows nobody liked Riley at first, but fans were strangely sad to see him go.

And while I'm on my long-winded streak...

Nina. Her character was handled so badly. Buffy had a new boyfriend every other week on her show (Riley, Ben, a couple of dates during college, that guy Xander set her up with, even Spike). Angel was left with his ex coming back to life (Darla) and Cordelia. Then when they both (sadly) have their respective deaths, and we learn that Angel [i]can[/i] have sex without consequence, he gets Nina. How many episodes was she in? 3? Their best moments together took place when he was a puppet. They could've at least sprinkled her into the background for a few episodes. Having her around more probably would've actually made [spoiler]her breakup with Angel[/spoiler] sad.

[Amorphous]

[QUOTE=Manic]
I think Willow's cameos, however, were well placed. They were usually very short, anyway. Cordelia calls her to ask about Harmony. That cameo lasted a good 5 minutes. She shows up to tell Angel Buffy killed herself. That cameo was a brief 10 seconds. Willow's only long cameo was the episode she re-ensouled Angel, and I enjoyed that episode. Her chemistry with Fred was funny.

I do wish, however, that Buffy would have at least appeared in the episode "The Girl In Question." I wanted to see Buffy and The Immortal, even if Angel and Spike never did catch up to them.

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who liked Illyria. Most fans hate her because Fred's character had to [i]completely[/i] die in the process. But I saw so much potential in her character, especially after [spoiler]Wesley's death[/spoiler]. The same can be said for Kennedy (Willow's second girlfriend). They were only on their respective shows for one season (specifically the last season), and I think fans would've eventually warmed up to them. Goodness knows nobody liked Riley at first, but fans were strangely sad to see him go.

And while I'm on my long-winded streak...

Nina. Her character was handled so badly. Buffy had a new boyfriend every other week on her show (Riley, Ben, a couple of dates during college, that guy Xander set her up with, even Spike). Angel was left with his ex coming back to life (Darla) and Cordelia. Then when they both (sadly) have their respective deaths, and we learn that Angel [i]can[/i] have sex without consequence, he gets Nina. How many episodes was she in? 3? Their best moments together took place when he was a puppet. They could've at least sprinkled her into the background for a few episodes. Having her around more probably would've actually made [spoiler]her breakup with Angel[/spoiler] sad.[/QUOTE]

[color=crimson][size=1]Well Willow's I do agree was well placed, I still didn't like it to terribly much. But it wasn't as bad as Buffy's by a long shot. But it still brought the episodes somewhat down really in my own personal opinion. I actually in a way would have liked to have seen Buffy for a split second in the one episode about the Immortal. Not of her like talking or anything, but just her somewhere and it would of been cool to see the Immortal as well.

I actually liked Illyria, more then Fred for that matter. She appealed to me much more then Fred did. Though Fred never was a bad character in my eyes, I always liked her anyways and yes I was actually already starting to get used to her being in the series. I just liked her presence for some reason.

As for Nina... I agree with you completely, she wasn't really there enough to even seem like she was anything important at all. She didn't even really seem like Angel's girlfriend in the long run, just someone he cared about.. but not to the extent of having that much feelings towards her.

So anyways, yes I just wanted to say my actual favorite part of that episode was with Lorne and what happened to Lisdney after he finished his job. It actually was.. just great, it really just shows Lornes true side. The part with Wesely and Illyria was next on my list. [/color][/size]