What makes a good RPG in the Arena?

[inti]

[FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=1]I've been wondering what makes a good RPG here on OtakuBoards, in the Arena.
I'd like to here some opinions from some of the more renowned RPGers, as well as some of the newbies.
What does it for you? What do you like to see in an RPG?
Do you prefer totally original RPGs, with almost nothing to do with a video game or TV series? Or do you like a storyline that could easily go hand in hand with your favorite anime?
What are your thoughts?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

Interesting question.

While I don't RP too often, I do pop in there now and then, to see what's going on. To be honest, I find most of the RPGs in there to be dismal.

There are some shining gems, however, like Zidargh's Zelda RPG. Zidargh is really focused on what he wants to do, and recently cut a few members in the middle of the RP, because they disappeared. He (right?) knows what he wants and has a very distinct vision. I find that very excellent.

Kill Adam certainly has revolutionized the idea and execution of the RPG. Like Zidargh, James is incredibly focused on his characters. He may not appreciate me saying this, but he's like Tarantino, heh.

Sara had a CareBears RPG a while back, and that was immensely fun to read.

Quite frankly, though, 90% of the RPGs in there have been done time and time again. I keep seeing the same ideas and execution, often, RPGs with "PG-13 for coarse language and mild sexual material." While I'm not offended, lol, it does become tiresome. I quote BASEketball: "Same Old Crap."

The Adventure Arena needs a good kick in the crotch, I think, and some actual life in there.

My idea of an RPG isn't necessarily dependent on the RPG being original, though that does help immensely. My most important criteria for positive quality of an RPG is organization and focus, on the parts of everyone involved. My first and only RPG so far, Body Language, was incredibly unfocused and disorganized. Many will blame me for that, but we really had no structure at all to begin with, and that was a problem.

I think that experience helped construct Spirited Away, actually. Spirited Away is the RPG I'll be starting up within the next few days that's based in a high school during Spirit Week. I saw the conventional Sci-fi/Action/"Mature"/Fantasy RPGs that clutter the Adventure Arena, and I feel Spirited Away is my response to that. It's a light-hearted and goofy comedy about a few high school students surviving Spirit Week.

I've already spoken with some Mods about the structure of it, and that was an immense help in understanding what would and wouldn't work, or what would be overly difficult to manage.

I think the most important thing to keep in mind when making an RPG is to not bite off more than you can chew. Some of the RPG creators there shouldn't be creating stories, quite honestly.

Basically, I strive for focus, organization, and effectiveness out of simplicity.

[Sakura]

[COLOR=Navy]Hmm....Interesting question.

I'm there quite often I think the thing that attracts me is the storyline. Whether it's original or part of an existing series, if the stroyline is good, then I'll sign up. But I get very put off when the storyline is a few weary sentences. And Since I'm very picky about english, since it's my favourite subject. If there's bad spelling and bad grammar then I won't be able to stand it and I'll just leave it.

When I'm in the middle of an RP and it starts to go too fast, too complex or boring then I will often quit and leave it because more often than not, they forget about me and my character "disappears".

For me, when I usually make RPs, the thing that I think grabs most people is something to do with Elements strangely enough. OR, since I'm a fantasy person, a lot of my RPs are purely fantasy, like they have Dragons and mythical creatures in them. Sometimes I'll get inspiration and ideas from other things, like books, anime, manga and other things. I think that my plotlines are usually quite good because so many people sign up for them, but the only thing is that several people drop out when the RP actually starts.

But I dunno, everyone has a very different taste and that opinion is what I think, hope it helped answer your question. ^_^[/COLOR]

[inti]

[size=1]Just a quick stop in to see how things are going.
Thanks for your opinions.
I quite agree that the lack of decent plots in the latest bunch of RPGs is at a high percentage (meaning there is rarely a well thought out storyline). I'll admit that I have actually thought about signing up with a few of them.
The biggest two RPGs in the Recruitment area recently (within the last month) are PiroMunkie's and Zidargh's, I'd have to say. The biggest ones I've signed up for (and, in Zid's case, become a part of).
I suggest any newcomers who want to join in on the fun-fun-fun! in the Arena should first read the rules, read a few good RPs with well thought out storylines and then begin to join in one RPG.
I'm going to stop myself there, before I begin reciting the rules of the Adventure Arena.
I'd like to see a few newbies commenting on what make a good RPG to them.
Anyone can make comments, but I want at least one newbie contributing before the end of this thread (lol).[/size]

[cinnamon]

*poiks* Do I count as a newbie? Heh. I haven't actually joined any Rp's here yet, but I used to Rp a lot at my old forum, which is now, for the most part, dead. The Rp's were a little less strict there. Anyway, I only really ever joined fantasy Rp's, especially those with a very specific storyline. Not just "Well, these teenagers are zapped into the middle of a forest by millenia old powers" and whatnot. Although, those can be fun...^^
I really only join Rps if I feel I can make some contribution to it, or can put in an original character that I can relate to, and also use to twist the plot. It really annoys me when there are clones of superpowerful characters who may as well be walking into trees with all the plot they're adding. *notices that plot is a really cool word if you use it enough times ^^*
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the matter. Now, off to do homework!
Cinnamon

[PiroMunkie]

[size=1]I think the more involved an RPG is, the better. I have the style of being incredibly detailed, but I think it pans out in the end to be a positive. If and when my RPG's fail, I mostly blame it on the lack of commitment (that is why most die anyway).

By making an RPG "involved," I simply mean give the players a lot to work with, not necessarily more complex. The more background information about the plot of the RPG and characters within them, the better. If a person cannot grasp the concept of the RPG, then it will go to waste. Also, the more information and effort you put into your RPG, the better members you will attract. People who are just looking for a random RPG will be intimidated by the massive amounts of reading they will have to do before signing up, heh, whereas more experienced players tend to appreciate the fact more. I am pretty much to the point where I refuse to sign up if I do not have to scroll down too far to see the sign-up sheet, and definitely if I can see it right away. o_O

Anime_fangirl was correct in saying the Adventure Arena needs a "good kick in the crotch." There is a massive shortage of quality RPG's. I hate looking in the Recruitment forum and seeing multiple sign-ups for different RPG's started by the same person. They simply will not be able to divide their time between each one well enough to make it something worthwhile.

Personally, I am not much of a fun of "reality RPG's," like the "Spirit Week" one you mentioned. I tried a more down-to-earth RPG like that once, and I believe it did not even make it off the first page. At the same time, however, I have grown tired of RPG's where power are huge "power houses" and large mangey beasts ... or whatever. It just gets old, especially since it is all usually the same.

From my own "collection," my Brave Fencer Musashiden RPG is the one I have put the most work into ...[i]ever[/i]. It died once when I posted it a long time ago, but I am giving it another go. I put way too much into it to just let it go, heh. That RPG was about three months in the making before I actually finished it, heh. I drew maps of select areas (this took me longer than anything ... >.>), gave visuals for certain NPC's ... I have even a couple bosses that I have drawn and taken the time to color in Photoshop so people can see what they are up against. In the sign-up thread, the first introduction post is not even the only one containing massive amounts of information. After I have chosen who goes into the RPG, I have an even more detailed post for those people to read, heh. Being that this is the second time around, I have begun pre-selecting people and telling them to go read that post from the old RPG in order to save some time when I post the new, revised one. The RPG has more than enough potential to grow, it just needs the right people. It started off incredibly well last time, I thought, with some outstanding characters and development within a short time. I hope to see the same this time around.

Hrmm ... I am starting to lose my train of thought. I do not know ...

Other RPG's that are quality have been Kill Adam and Zidargh's Zelda RPG. That is just lately. Given the number of RPG's that are currently "running," that is kind of sad. v_v[/size]

[James]

[color=#707875]I think there have been quite a few high quality RPGs running over recent months; I've actually mentioned several of them in my previous myOtaku updates. And I've provided little summaries as to why I think they're good/high quality.

Right now, I think Adventure Arena is in a slightly better position than it's been before. It used to be the case that you'd see [i]nothing [/i]but awful RPGs...and you'd get the very odd RPG that had some thought put into it.

These days, I would say that maybe 40% of the RPGs that are created have some kind of serious work put into them. Bear in mind that for a lot of younger and newer members, this may not mean getting into full-blown histories and using graphics and so on. It often takes some time to build up to that point. Often, people have to start somewhere fairly basic and build themselves up over time.

In terms of what it takes to make a good RPG, you'd really have to define what "good" is.

I've seen some RPGs that began with fairly limited sign-up threads, but which sprouted and became massively long epic stories. Whether or not the writing quality or structure is "good" doesn't really matter -- obviously the participants are having a lot of fun and they're sticking with it. And that's what is critical; fun.

If your RPG feels like a chore, then it's not a "Role Playing Game". It should be fun and interesting. As long as you have something fun going, then I don't think it matters what your concept is or your setting or any of those things; that stuff will just come down to personal taste.

Interestingly though, RPGs have changed a lot over time on OtakuBoards.

They used to [i]all [/i]be almost nothing but dialogue...and most used to use the play-written structure, which is obviously a lot easier and more simplistic than a flowing novel-like narrative.

But that began to change when more and more people started to write their posts as if they were chapters right out of a novel. Once the "top" RPers began doing this, most others followed suit.

I think that this is very beneficial, because it ensures that people build up skills in writing that type of content. And I have no doubt that it helps with people's English. In fact, I would recommend regular RPG participation for [i]anyone [/i]who struggles with English at school. It's a fun way of experimenting with words and building up new ideas.

In terms of my own experience with RPGs...well, there have definitely been times where I've had to quit during the middle of an RPG. But whenever I join an RPG, I'm very selective in the first place -- I only join if I feel that I can provide a strong commitment. Sometimes I can't. And most often, this is because of other commitments that are more important and take up my time.

Now, I [i]could [/i]still post and post shorter, lower quality posts. A lot of people do that when they run out of time. We always see the "Sorry about that post, I had to do homework!" type of thing after posts.

But...I really refuse to do that. Sometimes my posts won't be so good because I'll have a lack of ideas or something. But there's no way I'm going to post short, pointless junk in someone else's RPG simply because I don't have the time. I would rather pull out entirely, than simply contribute hollow junk. I think the latter is a lot worse.

As far as taste goes, I'm not quite sure what tastes I have. I tend to avoid joining the "realistic" RPGs, like Piro. I generally don't find them interesting. If I'm going to write a story, I tend to want to write about something a bit more far out.

But even in something like Maverick Hunters, where the main characters are all synthetic people...the situations and emotions that they deal with are still "realistic". So it's not as though I'm necessarily writing about something totally unreal and bizarre. It's just that I like to have unique and fantastical settings.

While I'm on this subject, I think it's great to note the way attitudes surrounding RPGs have changed.

Piro mentioned that his RPG died and that it's coming back now. This is good; people tend to get the idea that once an RPG dies, you can NEVER post in it again. But we have no rules about that.

A good example would be Maverick Hunters, again. Sometimes that goes for a couple of months without any activity. And then it'll get a flurry of posts. And then no activity, and then a flurry of posts. And so on.

I think that's totally fine though. It means that there isn't any pressure to constantly post -- if you want to add to it a bit at a time, now and then...that's fine. There are no particular rules that dictate how one should approach an RPG.

In a similar vein, I know that some upcoming RPGs will be pretty unconventional compared to what we're all used to. One of them in particular (not made by me) is going to use a chapter system like Kill Adam. But it will be even more rigid and organized than Kill Adam. I hope that we see more RPGs that try to do something like this -- something a bit different.

Conventions do build up over time, but people forget that they have almost [i]complete [/i]creative freedom in Adventure Arena. You want to use HTML? Go for it. Want to embed music in the page? Go for it. Want to span your RPG over multiple threads that might be seperate, but have one broader intertwining story? Sure thing.

All of that and a whole lot more is possible.

In Kill Adam 2, I'm going to be demonstrating some basic ideas about how people can expand the uses of Adventure Arena. And again, I hope that it influences people to do something unique, or to say "that gives me an idea that I want to try on my next story".

I definitely encourage people to get involved and go all-out. It's always great to see unique stuff in Adventure Arena. [/color]

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1][B]I like original RPG's. Not ones based on a show or game, because it's very likely I haven't seen that show or played the game, then I can't join. I like things were you can put long bio's and stuff like that, without worrying about the RPG plot being ruined. I prefer RPG's were there really is an Adventure, and not like just one mission then it's over. I also will not join an RPG that has poor grammer and spelling, there's no way I will.

I'm more into Modern RPG's, or Super Hero ones, or even future ones. I think the best RPG's are the original ones, but they don't get too far. Strange... But, That's all I say about this...[/SIZE][/B]

[BlueYoshi]

[COLOR=Teal]I'm sure we all share the same thoughts and views on what makes a good RPG here on OB. They should be fun, interesting, original, deep, and so on.

I truly believe that we all have different tastes depending on the outcome of the story or plot though. For example, I'm not much of a LOTR fan, I may have seen the movies but that's about it. If someone was to make a fairly decent LOTR RPG that accomplished the aims above then that would be great, it may display commitment, depth and lifespan. However, in terms of the films, I seriously disliked them, in fact I found them boring.

This theory is entirely relevant in the Adventure forum; no one would join an RPG if they weren?t familiar with the background work. They would lack guidance and would indefinitely get lost in the basis of the RPG.

That's why I think it's important to support original ideas, newly developed stories and characters. Kill Adam and Zidargh's Zelda RPG are brilliant pieces of work; they have everything--the works. However, I can almost guarantee that some people would be put off from them solely upon the fact that they lack the knowledge that's compatible with them.

My upcoming RPG, The First Yakuza, will take you through the eyes of a life crime, where you experience the Yakuza suffer the hardships, and joy for that matter, of being involved within the savage underworld (slightly exaggerated of course). Not only am I producing one RPG though, I'm going to let it run into a matter of series that all link within each other one way or another, kind of like The Sopranos, but different in its own way.

I'd say this is an original turn for me. I'm building a story from scratch with my own twists and turns along with my own characters, each going to have their own history, information, etc. You won't be left in the dark upon their appearances either, you will know everything you need to know about them.

To tell the truth, I was working on a Reservoir Dogs RPG (a film about a robbery gone terribly, terribly wrong) until I scrapped it for The First Yakuza. I asked myself, how can I make Reservoir Dog's into a sleazy spin off? The answer, I can't. If I were to copy all the aspects of RD then I would simply be reproducing the film again. It's entirely original, and by the structure of it, if an RPG about it were made, then it would be classed as spoilers pretty much since I can?t see how it can be changed around to prevent this.

It's ultimately about a robbery, it doesn't matter who they're robbing, I can change that, I can also change who lives and who dies, [i]but[/i] my RPG would merely revolve around the film's own story. Simply put, I'd be copying it. That's why I scrapped it in the end.[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

Personally, I only join RPGs if I feel that the writing quality within them will be very high. At times this means that there are long periods between posts; I started putting together something for Laeth E'Thae shortly before exams, but the need to study eventually forced me to set it aside.

In terms of storyline, I tend to gravitate towards fantasy RPGs... which makes sense, considering that the majority of the books I read would fall into that category.

Much as I love anime, it seems to me that original RPGs tend to do better than those based directly on a movie or book. This gives the creator greater freedom, and it's exciting to see what kind of characters your fellow participants will come up with. At the same time, I think the best RPGs (such as James' or Arcadia's) succeed because their creators have a strong vision for the work as a whole, but also give members enough flexibility to control minor plot twists.

~Dagger~

[Shinmaru]

I usually apply for RPGs if I feel that they are fresh, original, quirky or something along those lines. Also, beyond that, the person actually creating the RPG has to impress me with their writing ability; I have to feel that their writing is at least on par with my own (as horribly egotistical as that sounds lol). There's no particular genre of RPGs that I actually look for - I'll join just about anything if it looks interesting to me. I've been in both comedic and serious RPGs and I find that I enjoy both varities about the same.

[eleanor]

[color=firebrick] The last RPG I was in just forced to me quit, really. There were too many people and I could barely keep up without going back to the signup thread and re-reading it to see who the characters were and what their backgrounds were. The second thing was that my characters definately 'dissappeared'...I don't think people actually read most of the posts. I have never been in an RPG that has lasted long, they usually flew back to the fifth or sixth page before my third post. >_> Leading me to not even look at the place ever since.

What makes a good one? If there had to be three things I picked, it'd have to be: Writing skill, characters, and dedication. Dedication being the most important. I say, if you're going to start a RPG, finish it. Even though it's very hypocritical of me of saying so. And if you're going to finish, finish it with bang. You can't have a RPG where no one posts but three people.

Of course, a story would be nothing without good characters, and you can't have someone writing two-sentence posts every once in a while.

The reason I didn't add plot is because plot originality is so overrated. "This RPG is about a group of young wizrds...OMG YOU'RE COPYING HARRY POTTER!"

I don't care if the plot is overused or not. You think I read Harry Potter because I thought it was original? No. I did find out it was original once I read it, but the summary didn't sound very original. If you have a group of excellent writers and an overused plot, you can make it one of the greatest stories ever.[/color]

[Shy]

[quote name='maladjusted][color=firebrick']There were too many people and I could barely keep up without going back to the signup thread and re-reading it to see who the characters were and what their backgrounds were.[/color][/quote]
[size=1]This happens a lot. In my larger RPG's (like Don't Shoot the Goombas or Anime Stereotype High School) it was really difficult to keep track of everyone's characters, which made it nearly impossible to create an interesting story that would include all of the characters in some sort of way.

This was my fault because I let too many players in at once, out of fear that the RPG would become inactive. Well, the exact opposite happened: people posted a ridiculous amount in the RPG's first few days, and nobody could keep track of what was going on. This is a shame because both of those projects had a lot of potential in them (even though DSTG was just a bastardized version of Project Gamer.)

The trick is finding the right group of people to participate, because even the most fleshed-out concept will fail if nobody wants to sign-up for it. Creating an RPG centered around something with a niche' audience (whether it be an obscure anime series, comic book character, etc.) isn't likely to succeed because if someone feels like they don't know anything about the property, they aren't going to sign-up and post. Project Gamer worked because of the popularity of console gaming on OB; Evangelion: God's Shadow didn't work bcause only a handful of members on the boards had ever seen Neon Genesis Evangelion (Ironic for an anime message board, no?)

Something like Kill Adam, which isn't based on a particular work, has broader appeal because even someone who has never seen Kill Bill can still understand it's premise -- a pair of "real world" assassins looking for revenge. The concept is simple enough for everyone to understand, but the writing quality of the participants lead to a great deal of depth. Also, it had a lot of pretty graphics and html. Those things aren't required for a great RPG, but nobody can deny they didn't have some affect on it's popularity.

As others have mentioned, I think James put it best when he said that RPG posts are becoming an awful lot like chapters from a novel. The writing quality of the boards has improved drastically over the years, and nowhere is that more obvious than in the Adventure Arena forum (formerly Games and Stories.) The great RPGs we have in the forum today seem to dwarf even the best efforts in the Literature forum. When people work together on writing projects it seems like everyone's creativity flourishes, and that's what really excites me about RPG's in general.

There's a lot that goes into making a great RPG, so this is definitely one of those topics where we could come up with dozens of different answers.

What I look for in a strong RPG is: a strong premise that gives the players a lot of flexibility to explore it, talented participants who are dedicated to it, a clear vision for the plot (ie: a beginning and an end are planned from the beginning, although nothing has to be set in stone), something new to offer to RPG's in general.

There are very few projects that fit this criteria, but that's not to say that [i]every[/i] successful RPG has these things, or that every RPG that has these things is guaranteed to succeed. The key is to be flexible, and with some strong fundamentals (such as those listed above) you should be able to find a way for your RPG to work.

-Shy[/size]

[Xander Harris]

I've tried to launch a couple 'realistic' RPGs over the past few months, but I find no one really wants to play stuff like that. When I think about it, I guess I typically don't really either. If I'm going to spend a bunch of time writing something for a bunch of strangers, it had better be something that really holds my interest continually. Sci-fi/fantasy/martial arts/anything 'genre' gives it the extra 'kick' it needs to hold peoples interest, I think.

Reading this thread makes me want to try to start an RPG again...

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well, I like the following in an RPG:

I want almost complete freedom over my own character (i.e. I'm not gonna be a Deku Scrub just because that's the only slot left to fill, so I won't bother at all in that case).

I dislike cliches, so the less predictable the plot is, the better. But never should unpredictability be a result of the plot being nonsense (as is the case with Jeph Loeb's comic book mysteries, for example).

I don't mind if I have to follow a predetermined story arc as long as the DM (or whatever) has it make sense for my character to do what he does (well what I'm saying is whenever I LACK freedom of choice in the story, that lack of freedom should make sense to me).

Gosh, that's about it. Everything else is just really personal preference (sci-fi vs. medieval vs. modern, etc.).

As for what definitely makes a good RPG? Well the usuals have already been touched on. And I'm not sure there's much more to add. Other than that it really matters that the players keep coming back to post.

I started only one RPG a while back (Warmaster: Deliverance) and I thought it started ok. But I only had one guy on board (others joined but never posted), and after a day or so he stopped posting too. Maybe my plot was too restricting, but really I think that nothing is too restricting if you have enough imagination.

[Zen]

[color=green][size=1]


Successful and good RPGs in my eyes are those that innovate and have alot of description to them. A very deep story line, which can spand a long post. It has to be descriptive and get my attention while still maintaining a good amount of originality and heart into its plot. I get annoyed by RPGs that are just thrown out sloppily. Like the consant flow of Digimon RPGs that seem to be created at a factory. Or the Mass-produced "Element Warrior" formula. While some RPGs are successful and very interesting while not having an extremely long story line, most do not acheive that success. Example of a successful RPG without long back story, "Assassin Rebirth". It was made great by its large amount of character interacion and internal conflict, and I respected it for what it was.

Now, my veiw on RPGs based on anime vary. If the person does a good job at using the anime's world, while still making sure that people that haven't seen it enjoy it for what it is, then its a good RPG in my eyes. And the use of the Anime universe can vary. You could simply just use the universe that the anime is set in, or you can hop into the shoes of one of the main characters, like I did some many times in my line of Trigun RPGs (which I hope to revamp soon). But still, even with the anime universe, you cannot use that to mask the lack of innovation. You have to give the characters a conflict, something to work at. Open a portal for them to go threw in order to, while keeping true to the anime, changing the world around them. (Example: Vash destroys the city of July in Trigun, the anime. In my RPG, July was rebuilt as New July. Aswell, Vash tries to hide is still famous alter ego by dawning a blue outfit, facial hair, and a pony tail.) Aswell, the RPG "Brave Fencer Musashiden", as PiroMunkie mentioned, isn't just a sequel or prequel to a video game world, its the "reinvention" of the games world by instead of having one major hero, he has taken the veiw point of the giving the hero companions, and watching the games story unfold in an alternate way. Its all about innovation to me.

Thats why, in my RPG, which I'm currently working with, "War of the Shadows: Episode 1" I revamped the world I had created in a past RPG of the same name, still using the basic history, giving a new and better story line, and spanning the RPG through out three episodes in which sides would be changed, destroyed, reborn and a lot of character development would evolve on each side. If I can do this correctly and the people involved stay committed, the RPG will be highly successful.

So in the end, its just goes down to innovation, originality, commitment to the story line, and commitment to the RPG by all of those who sign up.[/color][/size]