President Ronald Reagan has died.

[dposse]

President Reagan has died at the age of 93. He was diagnosed 10 years ago with Alzheimers. His health was getting worse for the past few days. Reagan lived longer than any U.S. president. He was spending his last decade in seclusion because of his disease. President Reagan was tended by his wife, Nancy, whom he called Mommy, and the select few closest to him. Now, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton are the only surviving presidents. Please post all your comments about President Ronlad Reagan here.

Also, here is a link to a story: [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040605/ap_on_re_us/reagan_obit_4[/url]


President Ronald Reagan
1911-2004
R.I.P

[Shwa]

Yeah, my mom was shocked when she was watching the news, I think it was CNN or somethng like that. We talked about it and all, then she got a bit better. Anyways on my perspective, he's one of the onlt presidents that I know that has lived to the age of 93...thats pretty good for a person who has a disease.

[Adora]

[i]FINALLY[/i]. I was waiting for him to drop off the perch.

[DeathBug]

[quote name='Adora][i]FINALLY[/i']. I was waiting for him to drop off the perch.[/quote]
[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]We'll be sure to say the same thing about you.[/color][/size][/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Adora][i]FINALLY[/i']. I was waiting for him to drop off the perch.[/quote]

[quote name='DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]We'll be sure to say the same thing about you.[/color][/size'][/font][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Both of you need a time out.

I heard that on the car radio yesturday, but had jus t tuned in so I heard them say president and I was hoping it was Bush. I know that sounds bad, but I'm not for BUsh.

My mom didn't think he was one of the best presidents we had, but I don't know too much of his politics becaus eI was only a baby to a second grader (as were most of you or younger) so I can't make much of a judgement.

It's sad that someone dies, but I feel really bad for his family because the media won't let them grieve privately.[/color]

[DeathBug]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']Both of you need a time out.[/color][/quote]

No, I don't. I was not angry when I posted, and I stand by what I said. If your view of the world is so petty that you take pleasure in the death of someone ideaologically opposed to you, and in such a flippant and disrespectful manner, then you're a cretin.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I heard that on the car radio yesturday, but had jus t tuned in so I heard them say president and I was hoping it was Bush. I know that sounds bad, but I'm not for BUsh.[/color][/quote]

So you would wish death on him? See above. CHW, I respect you and your opinions, but that's disgusting.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=DeathBug]No, I don't. I was not angry when I posted, and I stand by what I said. If your view of the world is so petty that you take pleasure in the death of someone ideaologically opposed to you, and in such a flippant and disrespectful manner, then you're a cretin.
QUOTE]


[color=darkviolet]I fail to see how you're more mature than me with your name calling. And telling Adora that you wish the same things to be said about her. Take some time to step back and look at what you say before you say it.

I don't wish for anyone's death and it's cruel of you to say so. I was just admitting that I was kind of hoping it would be bush and you can't tell me that other people may or may not feel the same way.

Get over it, you probably aren't even old enough to remember any of his policies for the nation.

And now, back to the topic.[/color]

[Xander Harris]

Alrighty then, since no one here seems to know a thing about Reagan's policies, here's the Reader's Digest version:

When Reagan took office, Iranian terrorists had been holding American hostages, and Jimmy Carter had been unable to resolve the situation. He tried a military operation, but the helicopters crashed. Reagan had the hostages released within a few days of taking office.

Reagan was the origionator of the tax-cut approach to the economy. Some say his policies worked, since the economy boomed in the eighties and then roared through the 90's, but others would say he ran up too big a deficit and the economic success can be attributed to other sources.

Modern relevance: Reagan's economic policies were very similar to Bush's.

Reagan believed in an ideological view of the world, and had strong religious faith.

Modern relevance: Again, Bush follows in his footsteps.

Reagan was 'the great communicator'. He was skilled in conversation and comprimise, and could get along with people on both sides of the aisle. He was one of those people who was just very likeable. His persistant dialogues with Gorbachev (the leader of Russia at the time) helped break down the iron curtain between the USSR and the U.S.

Reagan believed in aggressive military spending, pitting the U.S's ability to produce weapons against Russia's ability to produce. Capitalism was put against Communism, and many would say that Reagan hastened the fall of the Soviet Union. They simply could not out-produce capitalism, and they collapsed.

Reagan was commited to ending communism. The Iran-Contra affair involved the Reagan administration selling arms to Iran in order to fund the anti-communist contras in Nicaragua. That's the only thing really approaching a scandal in his admin.


The cold war had been dragging on for decades, and Reagan was the man who finally put the pieces in motion for the fall of the Berlin wall. At long last, America no longer lived in fear of the Soviet powers.

Modern Relevance: With the fall of the Soviet Union, communism is no longer the main threat to Western civillization. China is becoming more democratic. Our only seriously threatening communist opponent now is North Korea.

Reagan was the one who created, in many ways, the modern Republican party. Tax cuts, defense spending, and the ideological philosophy all started with Reagan. He was the president who presided over the decline of the Soviet Union, and a period of time that was both one of the best and worst, economically.

Reagan also worked to create a quality cabinet and administration, hiring smart and highly qualified people to run the government.

A quote of Reagan's that a former speechwriter shared on the news yesterday really sticks in my mind:

Reagan was flying over a town or city (I can't remember where), and he said (I might not have the quote perfectly right, but this is the gist of it) "look at all those homes, owned by free working Americans. This is what I have to show Gorbachev."

And later on, he did take Gorbachev over that stretch of land, and explain to him the merits of capitalism and how much happier his people could be if they too could be working people that owned their own land.

It really is a blessing to his family that he died, though. His quality of life was not good, due to his long struggle with Alzheimers. Even in that, however, he was beneficial to the country. He and his wife helped bring Alzheimers sufferers 'out of the closet', and much of the support we now have for them and their families, as well as a greatly increased public awareness and understanding of the disease, comes from the Reagans' inspiring example.

That, in a nutshell, is who Reagan was, what his policies were, and why you should care. Hope that clears some things up for people.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think it's ridiculous to hope that [i]any [/i]President would die. Whether or not you like the man (and nobody here knows him personally to my knowledge) is really irrelevant. Obviously he was an important man who left a significant legacy on America. And now that he has died, it's important to be respectful and reasonable -- there's no need to be petty on any level.

The only thing I'll say is that I'm surprised this would be a shock to anyone. We already heard a warning about his health yesterday and we've heard repeated warnings about it in recent years. I think most people expected that this was coming. I guess we can only hope that he died peacefully.[/color]

[DeathBug]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I fail to see how you're more mature than me with your name calling. And telling Adora that you wish the same things to be said about her. Take some time to step back and look at what you say before you say it. [/color][/quote]

I did not wish the same thing to be said about Adora; I only wished to point out that if your disrespectful towards someone's death, you shouldn't expect different treatment from others.

A person who can't show respect to someone else's death [i]is[/i] a cretin. I'm not going to feel sorry for calling a spade a spade.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I don't wish for anyone's death and it's cruel of you to say so.[/color][/quote]

Erhm...

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I was hoping it was Bush.[/color][/quote]

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but it's sure how it came across.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']I was just admitting that I was kind of hoping it would be bush and you can't tell me that other people may or may not feel the same way.[/color][/quote]

They and you can feel the same way, and it'd still be wrong.

I can't stand hillary Clinton; we are so ideologically opposed that, if we ever came into physical contact, we would both disappear, having cancelled each other's existance out.

But I don't want her to die, just her career in politics.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']Get over it, you probably aren't even old enough to remember any of his policies for the nation.[/color][/quote]

Erhm, again...

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]I don't know too much of his politics becaus eI was only a baby to a second grader (as were most of you or younger) so I can't make much of a judgement.[/color]
[/QUOTE]

And that's tangenial to the point, anyway. This isn't about politics, and I have no interest in making it so. This is about common courtesy, human decency, and having respect for the dead.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]It's sad when anyone dies, but you can't actually go around thinking that everyone thinks the same way or try to make someoen feel bad for feeling the way they feel.

I find that I feel bad for the Reagan family (as I would for the Bush family thoughts about policy aside) since their greiving is going to be on public display. Just like it was a few years back when Nixon died and just like it was when Jackie Kennedy dies.

Can I get an opinion on what people think about that instead of saying how a person should feel about someone's death?

A person's greiving for a family member should be a private affair no matter what the situation, but you know they're going to have it video taped.[/color]

[dposse]

Can we all get back onto the topic!!!!

A president has died. A former president and leader of the free world who was a very well liked president at the time has died. We all have our opinion about him. Love him or hate him, he was still a president. Please get back on topic and stop the bickering.

I think that a president deserves some respect, especially after his death. After all, he is running a country. He has alot of responsibility on his shoulders. He has to decide what is right for the country. He has to balance his beliefs, with political issues, and what is right for the country.

Please post all your comments about the President. Good or bad, post them and explain why. But please remember that you are posting about President Ronald Reagan. Thank you.

[James]

[color=#707875]Well, I think that it will be taped by the media; that's hardly the Reagans' preference. And we know that they've been quite secretive about Ronald Reagan over the years, in an attempt to protect his privacy. So although I know you're not saying that they are camera-addicts or something...it's probably important to point this out anyway.

I don't think that DeathBug was trying to dictate how someone should feel about someone else's death...I think he was simply stating that it is inappropriate to be happy about someone's death simply based on an ideological difference. I agree with that. Politics is politics and whether you agree or not, we are all human beings. And that can't be forgotten.[/color]

[Xander Harris]

Yeah for people being mad at one another, it certainly keeps threads active... I go to edit in the rest of my earlier post, and when I'm done there are already five more posts!

I agree with dposse and James. A president deserves respect simply because of the amount of work and personal sacrifice they have given for the country. I even respect Clinton as a president (even though he was slime-bag in his personal life), and as time goes on and history judges him, I gain more respect. There are probably a few presidents that were so horrible that we should be glad when they die, but by and large presidents are the ultimate civil servants, dealing with incredible pressure and strain upon their families in the hopes of leaving the country a little better than how they found it.

Not that they are saints, or don't want to be pres. for selfish reasons as well, they are still human.

Remember that you respect the office, not the man. This is something my grandfather says about his days in the navy. There was one officer who was a real jerk (the censor won't let me use a stronger word ;) ), and the sailors really didn't want to salute him. One of the other officers, who was nicer, explained to them that you don't salute him because he himself is a great person, rather you salute the rank. You salute the institution of the U.S. navy, and you salute his achievment in obtaining his rank. You salute the office, not the man.

I think the same thing goes for the President. You salute freedom. You honor the Constitution. You honor the office of the president of the United States, not the man.

For my thoughts on Reagan specifically, see my earlier post.

[Assassin]

[size=1]That's bad about him dying. He was a pretty good president when he was in office. 93 years old is actually is pretty old. Atleast he lived that long and saw many things in his lifetime. My brother told be about him dying yesterday. It is sad.[/size]

[wrist cutter]

I didn't realize he was 93. Well, it's probably for the best. From what I hear, he was in pretty bad condition in the last few years of his life. Even though it's not surprising, I'm sure his family still grieves.

I must say though, I find Reagan one of the most interesting presidents. Just the '80s in general I guess. There's something very fascinating about that time, maybe because that was when I was born. I dunno.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Unsurprising. He has been on Death's door for a few years now, pretty much.

People get old and die. He was a great President sure. He had a dramatic affect on current world history [or his Administration did]. It is sad to see him go.

What more is there to say? He is dead, pushing up daisies, etc. Respect his memory, but there isn't really anything to talk about.[/size][/color]

[Adora]

[quote name='Xander Harris']Alrighty then, since no one here seems to know a thing about Reagan's policies, here's the Reader's Digest version:[/quote]
Unfortunately, I know too much about Raegan's policies to be able to respect him as a human being or a politician. I will not deny he had a great impact on the US and the rest of the world. I will not deny he did some great (as in large, far-reaching in their consequences) things in his life. That does not change my overall opinion on the way he effected this world. Thus, my comments before.

Maybe *now* though, Bushy will re-neg on his deals not to ban stem-cell research outright. Dear Mrs Raegan only prevented him doing so by whinging because poor Ronny had a disease they're investigating the techniques in. Boo fricken hoo. The man invented Raeganomics, so as far as I'm concerned, I hope he burns in the icy farthest region of Dante's hell.

[DeathBug]

[quote name='Adora']Unfortunately, I know too much about Raegan's policies to be able to respect him as a human being or a politician. I will not deny he had a great impact on the US and the rest of the world. I will not deny he did some great (as in large, far-reaching in their consequences) things in his life. [/quote]

You mean, like place political and economic pressure on the Soviet Union, hastening it's collapse?

[quote name='Adora']Maybe *now* though, Bushy will re-neg on his deals not to ban stem-cell research outright. Dear Mrs Raegan only prevented him doing so by whinging because poor Ronny had a disease they're investigating the techniques in.[/quote]

Yeah, it was all Mrs. Reagan who influenced Bush's decision.. I'm sure the majority of the Republican party and a good chunk of their constituency being against stem-cell research had absolutly nothing to do with it. Do you think before opening your mouth?

[quote name='Adora']The man invented Raeganomics, so as far as I'm concerned, I hope he burns in the icy farthest region of Dante's hell.[/quote]

The man deserved to die for an economic system? One that [i]worked[/i]?

Regan cut taxes axross the board by 25% in 1981. As a result, the economy grew by 31% between 1983 and 1989, for an annual economic growth rate of 3.1%. In the process, Reganomics created almost 20 million new jobs, doubled the value of the stock market, and reduced povery and unemployment rates.

[quote name='DeathBug']A person who can't show respect to someone else's death is a cretin. This isn't about politics, and I have no interest in making it so. This is about common courtesy, human decency, and having respect for the dead.[/quote]

[Adora]

[quote name='DeathBug']You mean, like place political and economic pressure on the Soviet Union, hastening it's collapse?[/quote]
Actually, I was more referring to the Communist Witchunts in Hollywood America that ruined so many people's lives and were just another hideous wave of persecution of lateral thinkers in the media who spoke out against the status quo. I was more referring to his training and arming of the Contra and Mujahedeen forces in this world, responsible for some of the worst human rights atrocities ever (Chile, anyone? The [i]first[/i] September 11th? Afghanistan now under worse rule than Taliban? Ring any bells?). Or maybe those lovely arms deals he did with Iraq...

[quote]Yeah, it was all Mrs. Reagan who influenced Bush's decision.. I'm sure the majority of the Republican party and a good chunk of their constituency being against stem-cell research had absolutly nothing to do with it. Do you think before opening your mouth?[/quote]
Yes, I do. And I think about how utterly stupid that dancing puppet is there up on the stage, and how easily he is influenced by anyone who mentions half a less-than-five-letters word at him.

[quote]The man deserved to die for an economic system? One that [i]worked[/i]?[/quote]
Oh yes, deregulation has just worked [i]oh so well[/i] hasn't it? What do you think is allowing businesses to outsource to cheaper countries like India and Taiwan, exactly?

Mandate my ***.

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]I'll say it once more, in case you weren't listening:

[QUOTE]A person who can't show respect to someone else's death is a cretin. This isn't about politics, and I have no interest in making it so. This is about common courtesy, human decency, and having respect for the dead.[/QUOTE]

If you hate Regan, then he's dead. Bully for you. Show respect for the dead, and the loss and feelings of others.[/color][/size][/font]

[James]

[color=#707875]The biggest problem here is that there's an oversimplification of the truth.

We know that in the case of Iran/Iraq, Reagan was between a rock and a hard place. No matter what he did, he would have been criticised. At the time, I'm sure that he felt it was better to oppose Iran than Iraq, given the idea that nobody wanted to see a hardcore Islamist dictatorship in the region -- particularly one that was aggressive and hostile to other countries (like Saudi Arabia, which is just one example).

Obviously we know what happened with Iraq, in terms of what it became. But I don't think it's that simple to predict the future when you're there in that situation at the time. Moreover, it's very easy to look back with 20/20 vision at these scenarios. But to be in a position of incredible pressure, having to deal with such situations...obviously it's very different to our luxurious reflection 20 years later.

In regard to the economy...surely there are no doubts that the American economy was doing relatively well under Reagan. Deregulation in particular is something that can't be quickly or simply evaluated.

There are pros and cons to deregulation; we've experienced it here in Australia. Generally speaking though, deregulation does allow for increased competitiveness in the market (as opposed to having everything over-regulated and stagnant). I'm sure that deregulation has had its casualties, but oversimplifications aren't going to adequately describe the impact.

In general though, we have to remember that we're talking about politics. Again, no matter what your political beliefs are, it's obviously not constructive to sit there and be happy about someone's death. There's nothing mature or admirable about that.

I would personally feel a greater sense of respect for this discussion if it were actually clearly focused on specific issues, without any hostile/emotive rhetoric (from either side).[/color]

[HOTpage2004]

all I have to say is that I dont care one way or another. He was a president (which I hate most of all) I hate presidents and things and I wish they would all die, so I guess since he died, I'm happy. :devil:

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][color=darkred]Well, isn't that HOTpage fella a loser?

Did I say that aloud?

What kind of brainless person would say stuff like that. You don't even know them or what they have to do, and you sound like some stupid loser. So, back in your box.[/size][/color]

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]I don't care what anybody says, Ronald Reagan was the greatest president to come along in my lifetime (and I was born during the dreadful Carter years, when Reagan was handed one of the worst economic situations in recent history) and when he died I was depressed for days. I feel better now, but for those of you who criticized him, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Reagan performed some of the greatest presidential acts since Kennedy desegregated public schools. A celebration of Reagan's political career is a celebration of what makes America great.

And don't start on about how screwed up America is, because I don't want to hear it. I'm so sick of the spoiled, bratty attitudes around this place. You'd think we were living in a third world country, the way you [i]kids[/i] complain about America and politicians all the time. Well, guess what. It's not easy running a government this big. There's just no way for it to be peachy perfect all the time. People make mistakes. But most of them are trying to do the right thing.

So thanks a lot, people. What should have been a nice tribute has turned into a childish bickering match. If the argument hadn't been about the death of a truly great man, I wouldn't have said anything, but this is pathetic. If you don't like Reagan, just have some respect for the dead and stay away from the thread, [i]kids.[/i]

For those who tried to defend, I'm not talking to you.[/color]