Lost Friends Over Religion

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]My mother always told me that in most social situations, the two things you should never discuss are religion and politics, because everyone has a different view, and they hold them strongly.
[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]My mom just says I shouldn't discuss religion or politics with my paternal grandmother because she'll tell me I need to see an exorsist since I have such liberal views on topics and dissagree with her about everything. My grandma, not my mom. [i]Anyone else is fair game.[/i] :devil:

Of Course that's completely off topic so I'll just go with what I can say.

If your friend decides not to be friends with you because of religion, then your friend is obviously a shallow brained lump.

However, if your friend has decided to not be your friend due to circumstances such as destroying personal property or acting like an arrogant dominating uh...person and has decided to site religion as the cause for breaking your friendship perhaps what needs to be done is for you to re-examine your personality.

On the grounds of religion and friends, I also don't feel that belonging to a different religion than a friend should make much of a difference. (Barring of course circumstances such as extremist religions since I'm quite sure I don't want to be brain washed, but thank you for considering me) My best friend is Eastern Orthodox Christian. When I met her I was still Roman Catholic. We had pleanty to discuss such as 'why do you celebrate Christmas in spring/winter?' And why do you/ don't you get dressed up for church?'


And don't even get me started on relationships and religion because I know you really don't have to be the same religion to fall in love or whatever.

My point is that as long as you don't go out every day and try to convert your friends. Not only will they remain your friends, but you can have many lengthy and civil discussions about religion. Those can be fun for the whole family if done right.

Anyone care to debate me on the subject? [/color]

[HOTpage2004]

I know what is like for sure. In other places I have lived, I lost so many freinds. I do go to church and things, but even that scares me, no idea why, and people say its cause I'm Satanic. Just cause I like dark things and stuff like that, I keep my room dark because I feel more comfortable in the dark. Its just how I am, but others think that its because I'm doing dark crafts and stuff. Even my parents, I feel, think i'm crazy. My mom is always yelling at me, I try to talk to my dad, but he says that if I try I could like other things, and I have tried, but I get scared. I tell them that it's just the way god made me, but than they made the remark that I should worship God and not the Devil, except I dont worship the devil. I have to say though, that I have hurt myself a few times from all the pain. Than theres the pictures on my wall, there of girl and guys but mostly girls. There different vampires and things, cause I really like vamps, but since I'm a girl and alot of the pics are girls, people think that I'm a lesbian. So so so confusing, in fact I'm so confused that I'm loosing my faith. I have many gifts like I"m a great singer, artist, dancer, and I could scense when somethings gonna happen (dont think I'm crazy, enough people think that) but if not handled in the right way, a beutiful gift from God, can turn into a curse from the Devil. On one of Avril Lavigne's song (Cant remember the name, think its She Wants to go Home) it talks about how this girl is being rejected and loosing her faith, and all that stuff, and it really describes me. So yeah, I know what its like. Not being able to fit in cause your one with yourself. I feel like I'm getting left behind.

[No_Regrets]

Hey, I think you're being to hard on White Akita. Arrogant? That's real supportive. I'm not here to make enemies, but come on. Anyway, White Akita, I know what it's like to be [I]shunned[/I] by people or friends over your religion. Dead-Angel and I both, at different times, opened up to my classmates and told them that we were Atheists (did I spell that right? I'm sorry but it's hard to spell) and my class and hers, (we are in different grades.) all just locked us out. Now I would like to point out I live in IOWA. Mennonite central. If you're not Christian, you're BAD. <* Prime example* But now my class thinks I speak to the devil, *I'm goth too so I guess that don't help.....* and they hate me. Like the most painful thing I've heard was, once in a class I got partnered with someone and they actually made a scene to the teacher about how I'm evil, and I talk to the Devil, and I like to kill animals....(????) Yea, confused me too. But yes. I feel your pain.

Hey HOTpage. Kudos....kudos. I know. I [U]like the dark[/U] and vampires are neat. but werewolves are cooler :D People call me Satanic too.

Oh undefeated.....what's with the "atheists" thing. Do we not exist? *Ohhh that sounded real b*tchy I'm sorry *

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='No_Regrets']Hey, I think you're being to hard on White Akita. Arrogant? That's real supportive.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to be supportive. I'd explain but you wouldn't understand, because I see things on a higher level than all of you.

(see what I mean?)

Elementary schools suck. They shouldn't pass out those stupid pencils that say stuff like "You are unique and special", because too many people take them to heart. They should say, "You're no better than anyone else, no matter what you think."

[Guest cloricus]

[quote name='wrist cutter']Elementary schools suck. They shouldn't pass out those stupid pencils that say stuff like "You are unique and special", because too many people take them to heart. They should say, "You're no better than anyone else, no matter what you think."[/quote]

That reminds me of an article I read that was a joint effort of three American colleges and a British one. (I will attempt to get a copy and post it.) It out lined a study on self confidence looking in to it's effects. Out of it they made direct links to higher levels of self confidence leading to arrogance, immature behaviour, increased risk of suicide, higher chance to abuse weapons (take them out in the street/to school etc.), lower 'common sense' or intelligence and less likely to be able to form relationships. It also compared different country's and noted that the American schooling population have, by far, the highest level of self confidence and displayed all of the above effects.

I believe a good example and proof of this concept was at the 'American Idol' auditions where people who where honestly the worst singers possible were throwing tantrums. Yelling abuse at judges and saying it was rigged. If you'd notice in the background the parents or friends would be saying things like "you don't need them, they wouldn't know talent if it had a bite at them" and "you really do have a good voice" etc etc.

And I was always told tall poppy syndrome was a bad thing...

[wrist cutter]

Look - science agrees with me again. I think I've proven that I'm pretty much always right, all the time.

[No_Regrets]

[quote name='wrist cutter']Look - science agrees with me again. I think I've proven that I'm pretty much always right, all the time.[/quote]

I agree with the pencil thing. That's true.
I don't understand that, you're accusing White Akita of being arrogant? That's either real arrogant or just plain snobby. Whatever. Why am I trying if all you're going to do snap something back at me. That may just be the way you are, and since I'm [I]understanding[/I] I'll say no more.

:cool: Doesn't bother me. :cool:

[Guest Midnight Rush]

Wrist Cutter deserves to be arrogant (or sarcastic) as he actually has a working box between his ears.Anyone who has half the perception that Akita claims to have would know that her/its/his comments would cause this type of discussion. Why is she surprised?

Why are you people being supportive of such statements to begin with?

*has to quit because of bouts of laughter*

[No_Regrets]

Because he has never ticked me of and It's because I'm a [B]nice[/B] person who tries to get along with everyone.

[Guest Midnight Rush]

You are right there... I've [b]never[/b] been nice... but I can be sweet.

Do you honestly believe you can get along with everybody?

[Roxie Faye]

[color=#9933ff]Yes, I do. It's call being an optimist, you arse. Loving everyone is also called being Christian, so you can just forgive people for being that too. -_-; So maybe you aren't exactly as sunny and bright as No_Regrets. It doesn't mean you can go around attempting to instigate fights. 'cuz that's just annoying. <_< (And it gets topics closed.) >_> Mmk? Cool. :)

I've never been shunned for being Christian, but my mom freaked out when she found out that my friend uses magic, too. She's like "OMG IT'S BLASPHEMY B/C SHE WAS BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN!!11!!" -____-; Super annoying, totally not open to other ideas. She's sooo old Catholic with some nutty ideas; I just won't get into it.

I've also noticed that the north east coast is very liberal, and as you go out west, towards the mid-west, everyone's really conservative; and some of what people have said, just prove it. It's amazing how close minded some people can be. O-o;[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Well, of course you shouldn't lose friends over something like that. Then again, if you go around telling everyone about your wonderous belief system, people are bound to take a dislike to... you.

If people were the kind who just held their tongue, this wouldn't happen. Fine, you are Voodoo/Wiccan/Jacobian. Or whatever. Don't broadcast it in your loudest voice, and nobody cares. If people shut you out because of it, they are shallow. People are like that... thats why prudence is the best weapon. What is there to say? Some people are zealous, and don't believe in other religions, or the humanity and worth of the people in other religions. That's their problem, it isn't going to go away. It is a shame, but just see your friend at school in that case.[/size]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

All of this "if they're not your friends because of your religion then they're just shallow" talk is complete and utter horsecrap. A person's religion can say something about their fundamental beliefs, about how they see and treat their life and that of others. One's moral system is often parallelled by the religion one follows. If, because of religious differences, your fundamental life views clash with someone else's (to the point of it being a problem in mature discussion), that is a perfectly good reason to not pursue a friendship.

Now, if you have been good friends with someone and then one day find out that he/she belongs to a church that you don't agree with the views of, then it may very well still be possible to ignore the religious differences and continue being good friends.

But it's important to note that religious differences matter [i]more[/i] when one or both people are [i]very religious[/i] and the religions dislike each other.

[Lady Macaiodh]

[color=darkblue]I understand completely.

Having been raised in a rigorously Christian environment while having beliefs that were somewhat, shall we say, anti-establishment, and being an incredibly vocal person, I was extremely ostracized. Of course, I was a glutton for punishment and relished this sort of thing, even though I complained about it all the time, as well as used it to my advantage.

Right, folks? Just ask anyone here. They've all heard about it.

I'll give you two pieces of advice:

1) Do what I did and relish your difference. In fact, revel in it. Or,

2) Learn to be a little less obvious about it if you don't like people's reactions. High school and church are not good places if you don't like sticking out. Once you get a little older, you will find your niche, and it won't matter so much how you act.

And Cloricus! How dare you quote Tyler Durden! I can't believe we actually have something in common. I must now poke out your eyes, for we have seen the same thing and loved it.[/color]

[Juu]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=deeppink]One of my friends was 'dumped' by her boyfriend because she was Jewish and he was Baptist...

Religion is something not worth fighting for. It's just something every individual has a right to as long as freedom of choice exists. I consider myself a Christian, though I strongly believe in reincarnation and karma as well. However, there's nothing holy about a holy war, or anyone simply arguing about it, for that matter. So what if they don't believe in the same religion as you? The important thing is, every religion stresses you to be a better person, regardless of a 'better Christian', 'better Muslim', etc. [/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Guest Midnight Rush]

[QUOTE=MistressRoxie][color=#9933ff]Yes, I do. It's call being an optimist, you arse. Loving everyone is also called being Christian, so you can just forgive people for being that too. -_-; So maybe you aren't exactly as sunny and bright as No_Regrets. It doesn't mean you can go around attempting to instigate fights. 'cuz that's just annoying. <_< (And it gets topics closed.) >_> Mmk? Cool. :)

I've never been shunned for being Christian, but my mom freaked out when she found out that my friend uses magic, too. She's like "OMG IT'S BLASPHEMY B/C SHE WAS BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN!!11!!" -____-; Super annoying, totally not open to other ideas. She's sooo old Catholic with some nutty ideas; I just won't get into it.

I've also noticed that the north east coast is very liberal, and as you go out west, towards the mid-west, everyone's really conservative; and some of what people have said, just prove it. It's amazing how close minded some people can be. O-o;[/color][/QUOTE]


Loving everyone is not a tenant of Christianity. A desire for the salvation of everyone's soul based on love is what you were skewing there. True Christians are supposed to extend hospitality, kindness, and support to those in need, but the emotion or thought of love is not required to be extended to all.

How dare you, in your "open mindedness", say that I [b]can't[/b] do something? That completely contradicts everything that you "believe" in. You, and others like you, defeat yourself everytime you open your mouths and release this sophistic ******** into the air because any logical person can see that ideas based on relativism cannot work.

To quote you: ...Super Annoying, Totally Not-Open to Other Ideas...

How are you being open minded when you say that? Where is the consistency of your "beliefs"?

My opinion is that when a person bases his or her philosophy around relative ideas, it is on the account of immaturity, insecurity, and a fervant desire to be out from under absolute authority.

Immaturity- This one is obvious, relativism is in and of itself immature. Even from a non-Christian perspective it doesn't work. The laws of science, secular humanism, and Aristotalian logic decrie these ideas from their foundations! To attempt to escape consequences, authority, and standards by using relative thought is about as intelligent and refined as putting your leg in a automated meat grinder. The only place these ideas are supported is in the circles of the secular hedonists (my term).

Insecurity- If you truly believed what you said, then your mother's lack of "open-mindedness" wouldn't bother you. This attempt to validate your ideas by forcing them upon others is a very teenage thing... maybe you will grow out of it. If not, you will have plenty of company in Harvard or Berkely, wherever you want to wallow in such things.

Escape from authority- Everyone would love to be his/her own boss...answer to no one... and have no consequences from actions. That's human nature and I understand. What I don't understand is this blatant disregard for reality. Before you can Lord over life... you must play life's game, and win.

[James]

[QUOTE=Undefeated]
Immaturity- This one is obvious, relativism is in and of itself immature. Even from a non-Christian perspective it doesn't work. The laws of science, secular humanism, and Aristotalian logic decrie these ideas from their foundations! To attempt to escape consequences, authority, and standards by using relative thought is about as intelligent and refined as putting your leg in a automated meat grinder. The only place these ideas are supported is in the circles of the secular hedonists (my term).

[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]Ever heard of the theory of relativity?

While I don't have any desire to enter into the overall debate (because it's become ridiculous), I will say that "relativism" being labled as immature is total and utter tripe.

Why? Because "relativism" doesn't apply to everything. Obviously the laws of physics are not relative; they are absolute.

But when we talk about personal beliefs and ideologies...what is and isn't tolerable to the individual, we're talking about specific issues being relative, depending on your point of view.

You learn this as a basic principle of graphic design -- no matter how clear you make your design, people will see it differently. That in and of itself is an example of "relativism" at work.

So, at least let's not make inaccurate generalizations here. Apart from the fact that this line of discussion is getting way off the target, it's also important that we don't over-simplify these issues.

And above all else, I expect everyone in here to be civil to one another. Lately I've seen a lot of sarcastic comments coming from various members, including long-time members who have otherwise had spotless records on here. Let me be clear when I say that it's just not acceptable. It only antagonizes others on the site. Let's at least aim to be relatively (there's that word again) constructive in our discussions here.[/color]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[i]Relativism[/i] as a term often refers exclusively to moral or judgemental relativism. I think that's how Undefeated was using it. (It's obvious he wasn't using it in the general "truth is relative" stance, although in that case relativism is horsecrap also, seeing as it contradicts itself right from the start.) And he [i]is[/i] right in saying that moral relativism has little place in a society.

[Dead-Angel]

Hang in their White Akita! I kind of know what it’s like. I'm an atheist. At school one day someone asked me my religion and I said I’m atheist. The next thing I know they tell me I should die and burn in hell. I got made fun of a lot but held me head high. I lost a few good friends but I got over it. Then later on I got in to a fistfight. That was "fun".

Oh hey undefeated what the hell is with the "atheists"
I with No_Regrets about this thing.

[No_Regrets]

[QUOTE=Dead-Angel]Hang in their White Akita! I kind of know what it?s like. I'm an atheist. At school one day someone asked me my religion and I said I?m atheist. The next thing I know they tell me I should die and burn in hell. I got made fun of a lot but held me head high. I lost a few good friends but I got over it. Then later on I got in to a fistfight. That was "fun".

Oh hey undefeated what the hell is with the "atheists"
I with No_Regrets about this thing.[/QUOTE]




Yeah! Go Dead-Angel-Kun! See? We are [U]nice, optimistic, and keep our smart-arse comments to ourselves[/U] . It's a bit non-realistic, Undefeated.......let's just call it....being decent. What you said to MistressRoxie was just mean. It seemed to me to not even be pointing something out. It sounded just freaking [B]mean[/B] . Good god people. White Akita asked a freaking question. Just to know, not to get us all in a fight.

Oh hey, does the fact that I see people differently than everyone else make me arrogant? Because I can't hate [I]anyone[/I] unless, obviously, their like, Hitler or something......

:p Whatever, I still don't have a problem. :p

*Laughes insanely* :D :D :D

[White Akita]

Thanks No_Regrets, and Dead-Angel. I was just simply asking a question and thats really it. I didn't mean to make everyone all B*tchy about it all. I just don't really think I should have told anyone my religion, but the teatchers made us write a report on our religions..........Thats when all the [i]fun[/i] started. Name calling.......The list goes on and on. But I still stand proud for I have my beliefs, and no one can destroy them. My theorys are mine. I myself try to see people on their good side, unless of course, well, the really crazy ones who commit genocide........ Even the people who [i]hate[/i] me, I still respect them. Anyones friggin opinion doesn't really matter to me anymore, but Sometimes it will hurt. A continous battle rages on within me.........All because of this d*mn religion problem. I hate it.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

It is because religious beliefs take a very strong hold on people. It's almost disheartening, but that's the way the human race functions. But friendships suffering is a minor problem in the "grand scheme" of things. People have and will continue to be killed in the name of god each and every day, somewhere on this planet. And perhaps on others ;).

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Well, ya see Sciros, in regard to the shallow-ness of it.... it is shallow. You do not see religions that spread the word that all people who aren't in their religion are useless bastards who should be burnt at the stake. Essentially, most religions emphasise compassion, and caring, and converting. Right? Most widespread ones, anyway. So, it is shallow to purposely have nothing to do with a person [i]only because of religion[/i]. As a blanket rule, religions do not exist with their fundamental purposes at right angles to each other. They are vaguely heading in the same direction.

It is shallow all the way through.

And, White Akita, they made you [i]write a report[/i] on your religion? You should be able to refuse to do that. Anyway, here is a virtual breakdown of a typical class. Of 30 students, 15 Good Christians hand in their report on Christianity. 10 students outline their report on the benefit of remaining neutral. 3 students write a flowery report on Buddhism, 1 students fails to hand theirs in, and 1 student is stuck with the 'Wiccan' stigma.

Fairly accurate, ne?[/size]

[No_Regrets]

[quote name='White Akita]Thanks No_Regrets, and Dead-Angel. I was just simply asking a question and thats really it. I didn't mean to make everyone all B*tchy about it all. I just don't really think I should have told anyone my religion, but the teatchers made us write a report on our religions..........Thats when all the [i]fun[/i] started. Name calling.......The list goes on and on. But I still stand proud for I have my beliefs, and no one can destroy them. My theorys are mine. I myself try to see people on their good side, unless of course, well, the really crazy ones who commit genocide........ Even the people who [i]hate[/i'] me, I still respect them. Anyones friggin opinion doesn't really matter to me anymore, but Sometimes it will hurt. A continous battle rages on within me.........All because of this d*mn religion problem. I hate it.[/quote]

No problem! But isn't that like, against the law? Making students tell their religion? I thought it was. You have a right to privacy don't you? I'd ask someone about that....
[B]I'm proud of being an Atheist!!![/B]
you don't get all confusd over religion then.....

Dead-Angel and I are the proud Atheists of Mid-Prairie High! ;)

[White Akita]

I tried to refuse writing on my religion because mine is complicated to explain, considering it's so close, yet so far from being atheist. But they said it was on your background, and you HAD to include religion. I know it sounds.....odd...But it was part of our grade, it was worth a LOT of our grade, and if we didn't do OUR religion, it's like we didn't do it at all. My teachers and school I don't really think followed rules very well, because we had many drug dealing, molesting, etc. teachers, and they never got in trouble. Well, they did eventually, but not when I was there.

No I don't get confused on religion, because I study many of them. Their beliefs and stuff, but the people who are in them, they don't follw waht it says to do, But I've found many *coincidences* in them. They relate to what Baron Samedi said.

Baron Samedi, you are actually fairly accurate. But my class had 33 students in it, but I get what you mean.