Fahrenheit 9/11

[Dagger]

Okay, I just got back from a showing of Fahrenheit 9/11. After reading this thread and various reviews (which were, for the most part, positive), I went into the movie with a great deal of skepticism.

Now that I've actually seen it, I have to say that the negative hype is totally out of hand. I'm not going to discuss any of Michael Moore's controversial past rhetoric/actions/etc, because watching Fahrenheit 9/11 made me feel more patriotic than I have felt at any point since the year 2001. The film is [b]not[/b] anti-American nor against our unique system of government; rather, it is strongly against the current administration. There is a vast difference between those two sentiments, and frankly most people just don't seem to realize the distinction (I'm speaking in general terms, not referring to anyone who's posted here).

If you only examine the first half of the film, it's easy to point fingers and claim that Moore is creating a very negative portrayal of our troops. But his account is actually well balanced--there are only one or two clips of bloodthirsty soldiers. The remaining 99% of interviews with American troops show people who hate killing, who feel incredibly emotionally torn and conflicted, who bravely obey commands despite their own doubt, confusion and grief. Ever since the American military became a voluntary army, it's relied heavily on recruits from extremely poor regions of the country. In a moving and eloquent voice-over toward the end of Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore tells the audience that it is the people who have so little who are the most courageous and the most willing to fight for the sake of everyone else in America.

American blood should not be spilt [i]except[/i] when war is undeniably necessary. American lives should not be lost unless there is absolutely no other option. I was never able to figure out my feelings about the war on Iraq until I saw this movie, which contains pre-September 11 clips of every administration official from Condolezza Rice to Colin Powell to the President himself saying that Iraq [b]had no weapons of mass destruction, no nuclear capabilities, no means by which to acquire weapons of mass destruction, etc.[/b] I couldn't care less about bin Laden's family leaving the US (or not, whatever the facts may be). For me, those clips were far more infuriating and explosive.

One scene in particular made me want to scream. It was a videotape of Bush at a super-fancy reception, surrounded by wealthy white corporate suits. As he stood at the podium, he said (I'll try to make this quote as accurate as my memory allows) something along the lines of, [b]"You all are the haves and the have-mores. Some call you the elite. I call you my base."[/b]

At least the man's honest.

[quote name='Deathbug']Not once in the movie does he mention Saddam Hussein.[/quote]
Perhaps you should watch the film for yourself before making such sweeping statements. I'd be perfectly willing to swear in court that I heard Saddam Hussein's name and saw his face at least fifty times.

[quote]To me, however, what spoke volumes was that Moore didn't show the footage of the 9/11 attack. His claim? "The theater of the mind" creates a better image.[/quote]
Well, he's right.

I was sobbing during that sequence and for a good fifteen minutes afterwards. I've become deadened to images of the twin towers falling--I've seen them so many times that they doesn't affect me any more. But hearing people's screams, and then seeing hundreds of New Yorkers weeping in the streets, praying, staring helplessly and desparately at the sky... it brought back a flood of feelings that I hadn't experienced since September 11 itself. In their horrified faces I saw the emotions I'd felt then. It was an immensely powerful and gripping montage, one that would have been weakened, even cheapened, by footage of the physical destruction.

I'm crying now just [i]thinking[/i] about it.

~Dagger~

[TheShinje]

I just got one point to make,

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[b]Moore, known for fanning the flames, has made this a censorship issue, stating: "I would have hoped by now that I would be able to put my work out to the public without having to experience the profound censorship obstacles I often seem to encounter. The whole story behind this (and other attempts) to kill our movie will be told in more detail as the days and weeks go on.'' [/b]

[/quote]
I think Alex best describe Moore's position as a "walking Contradiction"

Miramax is owned by Disney,

On his TV show, the Awful Truth, Moore's "heroic chicken thing" throws Mickey Mouse out of a moving car because Mickey is a "bad mouse who supports slave labor"

So if I could pose a question to Moore, it would be...


Why the hell do you think Disney would green light you?

[hawke3000]

Okay, some people need to calm down. You say Moore's a crazy radical, but you all sound like radicals yourself.

First off, I'm liberal, and even [I]I[/I] noticed some contradiction in there. Like, he's saying how the government wronged the soldiers by putting them in Iraq. But he also thinks that the soldiers are wronging the Iraqi's by you know killing them. That kinda doesn't make sence.

As for the bias factor, however, it was there, but I didn't care. It was pointed out to me many times by people who didn't enjoy the movie and my responce was always [I]How else do you expect him to get his point across?[/I] Like, he's actually trying to change the outcome of an [I]election[/I]! This was a personal movie he carved out of his own opinions to try and change his country and he couldn't do that by saying "Bush is a bad man, but he does has many qualities! He likes bowling and reading and frolicing in the sun!Falala!" If he had done that not only would the film not get the point across, it would not have been entertainting. And that is what I do respect about Michael Moore. He makes some of the most entertaining (real)documenteries I have seen.

Alright, I'm done, start flaming me.

P.S. Can someone tell me if I spelt frolicing right?

[Momiji]

[quote name='anime-nikki']i'm starting to think that thi movie is just trying to change the voter's choice, i'm not seeing this movie for many reason, it's painful to me to remeber what happened that day on 9/11.[/quote]
I know how sad it was, I was watching everything from the New Jersey port, I have an uncle that was lucky enough to get out of WTC before the second crash. In my opinion Bush hasn't done anything right during his government he was suppossed to catch Osama not Hussein

[Falkon]

that was one of the best movies i ahve ever seen. i believe that michael moore is my... hmm teenage hero, because he has the same political viewpoint as i do: the american government is F***ked up. sweet.

[Danethol]

One thing I'm tired of hearing is "Moore is slanted to the left", "Moore is biased", and "he's jujst promoting the left wing". No sh!t. He's stated from the beggining that the specific point, the very [B]reason[/B] this movie was created, was to get Bush out of office. He's a Democrat/Liberal; of COURSE the movie is going to be biased. If Rush Limbaugh released a documentery about the current administration, would you expect to find, even in a million years, the [i]slightest[/i] bit of leftism in it? Of course not. The film is meant to portray Moore's opinion, and he has every right to do it. As for the movie, it was the best I've seen in a long time. I was aware of many facts concerning the War on Terror, and financial information on things like Enron and Halliburton, but the connection between the Bush and bin Laden family completely through me for a loop. Simply put, if a Republican/Conservative wants to prove a point, go see the movie. I dare you to come out not hating Bush. By the way...


[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]
I was sobbing during that sequence and for a good fifteen minutes afterwards. I've become deadened to images of the twin towers falling--I've seen them so many times that they doesn't affect me any more. But hearing people's screams, and then seeing hundreds of New Yorkers weeping in the streets, praying, staring helplessly and desparately at the sky... it brought back a flood of feelings that I hadn't experienced since September 11 itself. In their horrified faces I saw the emotions I'd felt then. It was an immensely powerful and gripping montage, one that would have been weakened, even cheapened, by footage of the physical destruction.

I'm crying now just [i]thinking[/i] about it.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

The same thing happened to me, Dag. If someone has the gall to criticise that sequence having no imagrey, I dare them (Wait...I already have a dare...umm...double-dog dare! Yeah!) to listen to those sounds and not be moved.

[eleanor]

[i]Now that I've actually seen it, I have to say that the negative hype is totally out of hand. I'm not going to discuss any of Michael Moore's controversial past rhetoric/actions/etc, because watching Fahrenheit 9/11 made me feel more patriotic than I have felt at any point since the year 2001. The film is not anti-American nor against our unique system of government; rather, it is strongly against the current administration. There is a vast difference between those two sentiments, and frankly most people just don't seem to realize the distinction (I'm speaking in general terms, not referring to anyone who's posted here).[/i]

[color=firebrick]Oh, right. I just remembered why I love you so much, Dagger.

I mean, seriously folks. What in God's name did you expect to see when you walked into that theater? A non-biased documentary with some old man droning on about all the political happenings and such that have happened since Bush become president? Yeah, that'd be a total hit.

The whole point of a movie...is to portray someone's own thoughts and opinions. People now are just blowing up about it because most of the time, movies portray those goody, heart-warming themes that everyone agrees with. Would anyone be angry that a director portrays 'racism is wrong' in a movie. No. Unless you're crazy and want to flamed by ten million people. Criticize how a movie is made, how well it was put together. Don't start a rampage about the director's opinion [i]now[/i]. Even if it's the most crack-potted, stupid theme ever, no one should go crazy and start a riot. Movies [in my belief] were not put out there so people can go "GUH" and stare at the action or watch a bunch of teenagers talk about sex or something. Those are like added bonuses [to some people] to get across the point in the end. [/color]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Danthol]One thing I'm tired of hearing is "Moore is slanted to the left", "Moore is biased", and "he's jujst promoting the left wing". No sh!t. He's stated from the beggining that the specific point, the very [b]reason[/b'] this movie was created, was to get Bush out of office.[/quote]
Let's go with this, then. Moore's purpose of Fahrenheit 9/11 is only to get Bush out of office. Is that what you're saying? Fair enough. How does that portray Moore, then? Certainly not as the champion of the proletariat as he makes himself out to be. Look at how he acts. He's a Drama Queen, lol. You know, I think it's very reasonable to say that he doesn't give a damn about what happens to this country. Bold statement, I know, but take a look at this.

What does Moore behave like? How does he act, [i]especially[/i] when he's in the public eye? Now, call me crazy, but based on what he does when I see him on the news/TV/etc, I don't see a political commentator. I see a whiny little entertainment *****.

Simply, Moore is in it for the publicity, not for his claimed "I'm doing this to improve our country" speech. I've said it before and I'm going to say it again:

Moore isn't a political activist; he's an [i]entertainer[/i].

[quote]He's a Democrat/Liberal; of COURSE the movie is going to be biased. If Rush Limbaugh released a documentery about the current administration, would you expect to find, even in a million years, the [i]slightest[/i] bit of leftism in it? Of course not.[/quote]
Okay, Limbaugh is slanted to the Right. Extremely slanted. Does that suddenly validate his arguments? No. Likewise, just because Moore is slanted to the left does not magically validate his arguments. He plays fast and loose with the facts, never presents an [i]objective[/i] viewpoint, and this needs consideration. If someone like...Bill O'Reilly came out with a documentary called "Bush: American Hero," and left out all the negative material, only including the positive, surely people would have the right to criticise him for it?

Tell you what, you want to see a creative fiction that doesn't play fast and loose with the facts, and is pretty damn subtle in what it does, PM me and I'll link you to an epic poem I wrote called Wonderful Lego Land.

[quote]The film is meant to portray Moore's opinion, and he has every right to do it. As for the movie, it was the best I've seen in a long time. I was aware of many facts concerning the War on Terror, and financial information on things like Enron and Halliburton, but the connection between the Bush and bin Laden family completely through me for a loop.[/quote]
Again, Moore has [i]no idea[/i] what the word, "opinion," is, lol.

And if Anti-War films are what you're interested in, you've probably seen The Deer Hunter, Platoon, Apocalypse Now, and Saving Private Ryan, right? You want an Anti-War film, those ([i]especially[/i] The Deer Hunter) are infinitely better than Moore's stuff.

[quote]Simply put, if a Republican/Conservative wants to prove a point, go see the movie. I dare you to come out not hating Bush. By the way...[/quote]
Considering that Conservatives, Liberals, and Neutrals alike in this very thread have expressed dislike for Moore and his tactics, something tells me the fault does not lie in the Conservatives' court. Tell you what, too, I'm Neutral and I hate Bush, but I also despise radical left/right wingers.

Mal, go see The Believer.