Anime Eastern vs Western- The ultimate animated war

[PWNED]

This discussion is concerning a popular subject concerninng the lovers of Animated material from Eastern and Western companys, and now I have decided to bring this topic to the boards.

Which part of the world produces greater animated materials ( Also non-Animes ), Australasia or everyone else, This topic was too close to decide at school so I will let you decide.

Now there will be no two sentence or lower awnsers so if you do then I may ask a moderator to remove your belief from this thread. And please, can we have a detailed discussion.

[Dagger]

I don't think anyone has the right to definitively state that the Eastern half of the world produces better animation than than everybody else, or vice versa. After all, what do you mean by "better"? Do you want us to discuss specific shows and movies--judging them in everything from artwork to plot to characters--or did you simply wish to compare animation quality? Western productions typically have higher frame rates, which results in significantly smoother animation, but their character designs can be a little simplistic. Their directors also tend to use less inventive camera angles.

Anime, on the other hand, sometimes suffers from terrible frame rates and characters that go off-model every other episode. Whether or not those things occurs is usually dependent on the extent to which the studio outsources and the size of the show's budget, but I've never, ever seen Western characters look different than they should.

Let's keep in mind that not all Eastern animation is Japanese (while no decent television series have come out of Korea, several visually innovative movies have originated there), and not all Western animation is American. I liked The Triplets of Belleville, a quirky French film, much better than any American stuff I've seen (disregarding older Disney films like Aladdin and Snow White). In my opinion, Disney has really lost its touch; the studio's last truly amazing animated movies were Mulan and The Emperor's New Groove, which owed a great deal to its talented, hilarious cast.

~Dagger~

[Solo Tremaine]

[color=#503f86]There's also computer animation- that's almost entirely a Western medium for animation, but that's not to say films like Finding Nemo or Toy Story are any worse then something like Spirited Away or My Neighbour Totoro. They're just different.

Generally, animations made in the West tend to be primarily aimed at children, or at least the younger generations. The only adult animation from the West I've seen is Spawn (I haven't seen much of South Park, and I don't like it anyway >.>), which is more like your typical anime only drawn in a Western style. The large proportion of animes aren't just for children (and some aren't at all), and have many deeper meanings, convoluted plotlines and three-dimensional characters whereas a lot of animations originating from somewhere like the US have stereotypical characters and episode storylines you can spot a mile away. But some animes are like that, too. Once you've seen several, you can often tell how things are going to end up by the type of story it is and what the characters are like.

Until anime made it big outside Japan, Disney pretty much owned the animation market. Personally, I lost interest in Disney some time ago and started watching things like Beast Wars. And Beast Wars is another example of Western animation that has a really decent plot, good characters and nice animation. Beast Machines was even better and retained a darker edge that you'd be more likely to see in an anime. Reboot was much the same; although the two were primarily aimed at kids, they grew darker and contained more adult references as they went on.

And things like The Simpsons and Futurama are fantastic to watch even though they aren't as graphically complex as some anime series. In this case, it's all in the writing.

But that's not even to say that children's animations are no good- even things like Rugrats can be enjoyable and put across a really interesting/touching message. There is a definitive difference in style between Eastern and Western animation, but I don't think that makes one better than the other, per se. It all depends on who the story's for, who it's done by and what the studio's budget is. At least Western animations tend to be consistant in their character designs. As Dagger said, anime characters can differ from episode to episode depending on the animation team.

Whether you prefer anime to Western animation or not, people's ideas on the standard of animation is changing. Cliches exist in both- I doubt either is necessarily more original than the other in terms of animation or plotlines, and both have their faults. Even though I prefer to watch anime I won't say that all Western productions are bad. They're just different.[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[font=Book Antiqua][color=blue][b]Geez, Solo![/b] You said everything I wanted to say! You didn't leave even a single thing out! *checks off list of ideas* (I hate South Park and like those other shows too, haha)[/color][/font]

[font=Book Antiqua][color=#0000ff]I don't think you'll find many that will argue for one or the other. Instead, they are seen simply as two different forms of visual entertainment. As Solo stated (of course):o, there appears to be a preference between form and genre. Cartoons are more on the humorous side of things. I dare say they've mastered comedy, as I've yet to find an anime that can match Bugs or Homer. On the other hand, there are very few cartoons that are as deep and thought-provoking as Haibane Renmei or Tsukihime.[/color][/font]

[font=Book Antiqua][color=#0000ff]While I do prefer anime (like Solo :mad:), it's because I think it looks cooler. That's a shallow reason when you think about it. In fact, I actually started watching anime in order to do something with my siblings - I used to hate it then.[/color][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][color=#0000ff][/color][/font]
[font=Book Antiqua][color=#0000ff]That doesn't mean cartoons cannot be cool-looking, though, and they are uncool-looking mostly by choice. Spiderman, Transformers (Solo... :flaming:), or TMNT (it used to be cool!) have more serious genres, so they are cool-looking. Cartoons, though, are mostly intended to be humorous, so of course their characters are going to be less cool and more humorous (cool and humorous are mutually exclusive, btw).[/color][/font]

[font=Book Antiqua][color=#0000ff]That's all. I'm going to go kill Solo now so that there's only one of us :twitch:[/color][/font]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

And everyone's forgetting the ultimate example of a serious not-just-for-kids cartoon that came out in the U.S. and friggin rocked--Batman: The Animated Series. Great animation, great writing, killer voice acting. Overall a masterpiece. It's the show that's almost the exception to the rule when it comes to American cartoons nowadays.

And anime hasn't been able to pull of comedy the way the funny American cartoons (Family Guy, Critic, etc.) have.

As for which is better, Western or Eastern animation? Well, you can't make that statement. Because each has good and bad, but none has one true representative you can really use to make a proper comparison. My favorite animation has so far been Western, but that's my personal tastes. I won't say that Eastern animation is [i]worse[/i] because it doesn't include my favorite series, although if I keep watching anime and keep getting disappointed by its endings, I don't know...

You can compare certain qualities and judge which is better, but you have to be very specific. Who has better romantic girl-wants-boy plotlines? Perhaps anime. What has better Batman cartoons? hehe.

Oh, and lots of shows, including Batman: TAS, were outsourced to Japan for the artwork. But that doesn't count because it's all about the art director in that case.

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']And everyone's forgetting the ultimate example of a serious not-just-for-kids cartoon that came out in the U.S. and friggin rocked--Batman: The Animated Series. Great animation, great writing, killer voice acting. Overall a masterpiece. It's the show that's almost the exception to the rule when it comes to American cartoons nowadays.[/quote]

Definitely agreed. I was an avid fan of Batman: The Animated Series when I was younger; it was one of the greatest shows I've ever seen in my life, and I'm not just restricting that statement to animated series.

Anyway, as has been said, you can't really come up with a true answer to this question, because it's all subjective. Personally, I prefer Western animation, mostly because many of my favorite animated shows are Western series (The Simpsons, Batman: TAS, Futurama, etc.). I like some Eastern series, but the majority of them aren't really accessible to me, simply because I don't have the money to buy them or they never get licensed and shown on TV over here. Can't like what I haven't seen, you know? I could always go to fansubs, but I generally prefer not to, for various reasons.

For me, I grew up on Western series, because those were what was available to me, and quite a few of them are much better than a lot of people seem to give them credit for. I don't know about anyone else, but I could probably name off just as many great Western animated series that I've seen as people could with Eastern series. Why? Because they're what I watch, and there's going to be that form of bias about a lot of the time when people try to compare Eastern and Western series (it wouldn't be apparent in [i]everyone[/i], of course, but it would be there in a lot of people).

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I think it depends on what you're looking for in animation since both sides of the ocean have many possibilities sometimes it's just better to decide what you want to watch.

Earlier anime that I've seen I thought was a bit choppy and didn't really apeal to me as a viewer.

However, I've seen some of the earlier Bug BUnny cartoons (mostly used as propganda during WW2 against Nazi Germany) and I found that entertaining. It's interesting to see how the gorvernment and animators used cartoon characters to sway children. Infact If I could get ahold of something like that from another country (besides the poster in the 1st Cav museum with Superman telling Bosnian children to stay away from Landmines.) I'd enjoy that.

There are ups and downs to both eastern and western animation I just hope this whole topic doesn't turn into another unfortunate rant on how western animation sucks. Because it really doesn't. [/color]

[Guest funky girl]

[QUOTE=Daermon_Nashabe]This discussion is concerning a popular subject concerninng the lovers of Animated material from Eastern and Western companys, and now I have decided to bring this topic to the boards.

Which part of the world produces greater animated materials ( Also non-Animes ), Australasia or everyone else, This topic was too close to decide at school so I will let you decide.

Now there will be no two sentence or lower awnsers so if you do then I may ask a moderator to remove your belief from this thread. And please, can we have a detailed discussion.[/QUOTE]
i dont think that there is any better one coz all of them are nice to see and draw. each and every animae and non animae has its own specialties like animae the way they draw the eyes are amazing and all animae cartoons have differnt ways to draw the eyes. the non animae cartoons all have the same eyes but they make it 3D . by one way the western people are cheating by using computer animation but on the other hand they are also clever enough to use techonlogy to help them make cartoons .eastern people are talented in drawing cartoons free hand without using techonolgy but they are not talented in using the computer.

[Hittokiri Zero]

[quote]i dont think that there is any better one coz all of them are nice to see and draw. each and every animae and non animae has its own specialties like animae the way they draw the eyes are amazing and all animae cartoons have differnt ways to draw the eyes. the non animae cartoons all have the same eyes but they make it 3D . by one way the western people are cheating by using computer animation but on the other hand they are also clever enough to use techonlogy to help them make cartoons .eastern people are talented in drawing cartoons free hand without using techonolgy but they are not talented in using the computer.[/quote]

My eyes! My eyes! My friggen eyes!!! I'm sorry... But i'm not sure how else to explain what I just read...

Basically i'd have to disagree with what Funky Girl said; when were talking about Eastern Animation were usually referring primarily to Japan and Korea. In terms of "not being talented in using the computer" that makes no sense, Japan is at the forefront of the technological world how can they not be talented with computers? (I'm not even sure if talented is the word i'd use o_O...) Most anime (yes anime not "animae") nowadays is made with some sort of computer aid, the majority of animated shows are not produced completly free hand anymore because that would be too costly and time consuming.

Now back on topic >_>'...

To be honest, even before I was an anime fan I never enjoyed the majority of western animated T.V. series out there. It really had nothing to do with the animation style it was just the substance and plot in most western T.V. shows which always (and still does) annoyed me. Shows like Batman for example were just too episodic and the hero (more or less) always appeared untouchable. Everything was also so predictable that the show lost half of the fun right there. On the other hand i'm not all anti-western animation :rolleyes:... There's a tiny bit of me that thoroughly enjoys comedies/parodies such as South Park, and The Simpsons. But once again I can name a variety of other "comedic" T.V. shows produced in the west that just hurt my head to even think about, to name a few: Pinky and the Brain, Rugrats (I always hated this show), Ed Ed and Eddy, Scooby Doo, etc.

As for eastern animation... If you take it as a whole you'll find that, yes, there are many animes with untouchable heroes and predictable plot lines. But you'll also find that on a whole (or atleast numerically) there are more thought-provoking series (in the East than in the West), that manage to combine action, suspense, etc. with a non-episodic plot-line and that don't reuse the same cliche and trademark one-liners and bad guy of the week forumla. This may be in part because of the different target audiences (Western animation generally targets small children or young adolescents while Eastern animation targets a variety of age groups), but all in all western animation has always failed to impress me the same way that eastern animation has.

---

One reasn why I may find eastern animation as more original is because it's foreign, thus it's different for me. I'm also not constantly surrounded and exposed to many of these cliche stereotypes that are apparent in western animation so in actuality while I may see something in an eastern based animation to be original for all I know it could be a cliche type thing in the east. That still doesn't change my stance though >_>' I enjoy watching anime and about the only non-comedic western animated series I have enjoyed watching are (the old) GI Joes and Ninja Turtles.

[Dagger]

[quote name='funky girl']by one way the western people are cheating by using computer animation but on the other hand they are also clever enough to use techonlogy to help them make cartoons .eastern people are talented in drawing cartoons free hand without using techonolgy but they are not talented in using the computer.[/quote]

This entire paragraph is inaccurate. The vast majority of anime and Disney classics were made by putting together hand-painted cels. However, almost all recent animation, whether Western or Eastern, is digital in nature and therefore relies heavily upon the use of technology. I don't see how CGI qualifies as "cheating," especially considering that it's hardly an American phenomenon. Certain Japanese studios are famous (or notorious) for blending CG machines, water, backgrounds, etc. with 2D characters. The film Appleseed is entirely computer-generated, but cel-shaded to closely resemble traditional 2D anime. Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children (another CG movie), which is set to be released in Japan sometime this summer, juxtaposes anime-inspired character designs with cutting-edge computer animation.

~Dagger~

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='funky girl']i dont think that there is any better one coz all of them are nice to see and draw. each and every animae and non animae has its own specialties like animae the way they draw the eyes are amazing and all animae cartoons have differnt ways to draw the eyes. the non animae cartoons all have the same eyes but they make it 3D . by one way the western people are cheating by using computer animation but on the other hand they are also clever enough to use techonlogy to help them make cartoons .eastern people are talented in drawing cartoons free hand without using techonolgy but they are not talented in using the computer.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Ooookay. No haven't you watched anime lately? The new ones have quite a few computer graphics inserted. InuYasha comes to mind with the energy waves coming off of him when he's sat.

Cheating? I think not. If you look at some of the frames from SailorMoon you'll see that they've been used over and over. especially the senshi transfoprmation scenes. That would be cheating as well right?

Keh, not talented using a computer? Where do you think our computers come from, Canada? Like everyone else has said, Japan is one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world.

Computer animation isn't cheating in my opinion, it's just making things go faster and making new types of movies. Finding Nemo, Monster's Inc and Shrek for example. And those take lots of time and effort as well.

As for the eyes. I've noticed more simularities in anime eyes than in the western drawings. If I can, I'll scan a copy of soem Korean Manga I have and demonstrate.[/color]