Worse types of bullying?

[Rachael]

So (I'm just trying to sum up what your trying to say WC) If you fluant your individuality to such an extent you only have yourself to blame when you get bullied??

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='Rachael']So (I'm just trying to sum up what your trying to say WC) If you fluant your individuality to such an extent you only have yourself to blame when you get bullied??[/quote]

Pretty much. I might have to "amend" that sooner or later though.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]WC I agree with you that some bullying can be stopped by just adjusting your actions, but what if your individuality isn't your hobbies or the way you dress? What if it's something like your religion, or your ethnic background, or your sexual orientation? Or what if it's how much money your family has?

Yes, you can change your religion if you're willing to do so. But what if you consider that religion to be a defining point in your life? I doubt you'd be willing to change being Muslim because some jeuvenial people keep asking you why you have a towel around your head or stop being Wiccan because some someone keeps leaving notes and pictures depicting you being hanged.

Money wise, unless your parent or parents suddenly win the lotto or manages to get a better job well, there's not much you can do about being the kid who shops at Good Will and gets the free lunch everyday.

Sexual orientation: Well, yeah you can pretend to be straight for a while. But for how long? And would you really be happy doing that?

Basically what I'm saying is tell the bullies to screw off, in your own language (if you're absolutely able to). Someone makes stupid crack about how you're so fat you have two lunch periods ignore the dork because they just want a rise. But if someone starts threatening you go to someone in charge. (Not that the principal will always work out in the end because that tubba wubba may say you're to blame for being a non conformist). Because that's a time when bullying is going a bit too far.

Yes, it's easier to go along with the crowd and be a cookie cutter version of everyone else. But you only hurt yourself by hiding who you are. In the real world nobody cares who you pray to, who you sleep with or your family background. And if they do, you can always sic a nice civil action suite on them because that type of bullying is discrimination, which is illegal.

In conclusion. Yes, I came out okay from being bullied through most of school. But that doesn't mean that everyone can not be affected by being bullied. I know of people who commited suicide over less than what I went through and have friends who would rather just skip school than put up with the crap they went through. So maybe bullying shouldn't be considered a type of growth.[/color]

[ZakuSage]

ChibiHorsewoman: Well what I'd like to know is why you're still considering that bullying, and not more along the lines of prejudices leading to discrimination and just plain old abuse? When do we cross the line from whats considered bullying and whats considered those two things? In the case of what you're offering in that post, I'd say that goes well beyond the realms of bullying and more into discrimination. In this case, you shouldn't tell your principal that you've been bullied, but that you've been deiscriminated against because of your ethnic or racial background. That will prompt him/her to do something about it. I'd also suggest telling a type of community leader in your race or ethnic background about the discrimination and trying to get their advice, and see if they any type of group can try to take action on this type of thing.

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman']WC I agree with you that some bullying can be stopped by just adjusting your actions, but what if your individuality isn't your hobbies or the way you dress? What if it's something like your religion, or your ethnic background, or your sexual orientation? Or what if it's how much money your family has?[/quote]

This is a good point.

Obviously, these are things that are not really within your control. And any "bullying" over these things that occurs is generally more serious than picking on someone over their binder.

In such a case I can't imagine that there'd be a lot of people who are bullying you about your ethnicity (for example), or your religion, but rather just one or two or a few people who are being ********. In this case, going to a higher authority will probably be the best solution.

And I don't advocate changing religion just to escape bullying... if you're religious at all it's not like you can just swap anyway. And like with the anime example I posted above, it's not about changing your interests, it's about keeping it out of the public eye.

[InuyashaLvr]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][I] Any kind of bullying sucks!!!!!! I mean come on! Don't you agree??? My old Middle School actually had to take Bullying classes, because there were so many fights!!!

I remember in seventh grade, I had my own bully. I had just moved in with my dad, and I sat in the front of the bus because I didn't know anyone. Well next thing I knew, *THWACK*, I got smacked in the back of the head with a full bottle of white out... Ow... Well... we became friends.. blah blah blah... then she went to highschool, got pregnant, killed her baby... great for her... I dread going to highschool this year, because I know I'm going to get pushed around, and I'm scared to death...

Owell... O.k. Well I'm done rambling! Bye!


~vanna~[/I][/COLOR]

[Chaos]

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']In conclusion. Yes, I came out okay from being bullied through most of school. But that doesn't mean that everyone can not be affected by being bullied. I know of people who commited suicide over less than what I went through and have friends who would rather just skip school than put up with the crap they went through. So maybe bullying shouldn't be considered a type of growth.[/color][/quote]


If someone kills themselves over something so small, then they are too weak-minded to even have been born. The world is a better place without them. And yes, I have no shame. I say this because it is a fact. I would go in to a long Darwinism rant, but I've made my point.

I'd say some bullying shouldn't be considered a type of growth. I'm willing to agree with that. Obviously, getting beat up and having your schoolbag thrown into a dumpster isn't going to instantly make you CEO of a company. However, if you learn from your "mistakes", you will become more assertive and steel-minded. Meaning, the next time the bully tries to mess with you, you kick the **** out of his nuts and stomp on his face while making some random insult about his mother and three animals. [Fun story is that I've seen that happen. Eight year old kick whipped the Hell out of a twelver year old. I wish I had it on tape.]


[quote name='ZakuSage']ChibiHorsewoman: Well what I'd like to know is why you're still considering that bullying, and not more along the lines of prejudices leading to discrimination and just plain old abuse? When do we cross the line from whats considered bullying and whats considered those two things? In the case of what you're offering in that post, I'd say that goes well beyond the realms of bullying and more into discrimination. In this case, you shouldn't tell your principal that you've been bullied, but that you've been deiscriminated against because of your ethnic or racial background. That will prompt him/her to do something about it. I'd also suggest telling a type of community leader in your race or ethnic background about the discrimination and trying to get their advice, and see if they any type of group can try to take action on this type of thing.[/quote]


Please, stop your hippie conservative rant. There is a fine line between abuse and bullying. If it was some racial issue or ethnically-driven dislike, don't you think they'd be doing something more than making fat jokes? God almighty, when did everything turn into "race" this and "race" that? Lawfully, it's abuse when it mentally scars and phsyically incapacitates you. Other than that, it is settled out of court. Usually in class when the teacher steps out. People are too quick to throw around controversal issues when they are not needed. [b]You[/b] are a fine example of someone who has not learned much from REAL life. How old are you? Fourteen? Fifteen? And you don't know now that people don't one day up and say "You know, I don't like you because you buy clothes from WalMart,"? Bullies are bullies for two reasons: 1)They enjoy doing it, or 2) They are bored.

Racial and ethnical "hate-crimes" comes when **** happens after school with someone burning a cross on your front lawn or throwing a brick in your window with a note taped on it saying "Go back to your caves, cameljockies." Bullying in the school environment usually takes place because a person generally does not like a person for a reason. I don't go up to random Freshmen and shove them into a locker face-first. I do that to the smartass ones that talk ****.

Please, grow up everyone. The world doesn't feed controvercy; overactive mouths do.

[TOTALIMMORTAL]

Ya, bullying is messed up, but in my opinion it's just a way to seperate the weak from the strong, both mentally and physically. I'm still in High School so I know all about this stuff since I see it everyday. I don't take **** from the dickheads who do consider themselves bullies. It's all in your head. If you are being bullied don't let it get to you, and if things do start to get violent then get friends for backup. Ok, I better shut up now before I offer some really bad advice. I'm most definitely not a bully my self, but I've been in tons of fights. Definitely not to brag, but I'm looked up to in school by tons of people because I'm kinda known for putting bullies in their place. Yes, I admit, I've kicked some of their *****, but those are just the ones who are really bad "physical" bullies. I must say though, I have never started a fight, nor do I go looking for them. I just defend myself and protect those weaker then me. I can't imagine how stupid and super-heroish this sounds but it's true. Bullies are just scared little kids who have no better way of trying to make themselves feel big then by making others feel small. I'd have to say my first sentence sums up the way I feel about bullying.

[ZakuSage]

[QUOTE=Chaos]Please, stop your hippie conservative rant. There is a fine line between abuse and bullying. If it was some racial issue or ethnically-driven dislike, don't you think they'd be doing something more than making fat jokes? God almighty, when did everything turn into "race" this and "race" that? Lawfully, it's abuse when it mentally scars and phsyically incapacitates you. Other than that, it is settled out of court. Usually in class when the teacher steps out. People are too quick to throw around controversal issues when they are not needed. [b]You[/b] are a fine example of someone who has not learned much from REAL life. How old are you? Fourteen? Fifteen? And you don't know now that people don't one day up and say "You know, I don't like you because you buy clothes from WalMart,"? Bullies are bullies for two reasons: 1)They enjoy doing it, or 2) They are bored.

Racial and ethnical "hate-crimes" comes when **** happens after school with someone burning a cross on your front lawn or throwing a brick in your window with a note taped on it saying "Go back to your caves, cameljockies." Bullying in the school environment usually takes place because a person generally does not like a person for a reason. I don't go up to random Freshmen and shove them into a locker face-first. I do that to the smartass ones that talk ****. [/QUOTE]
Did you even read the post I was talking about? Here, let me give you a part of it:

[QUOTE] [color=#9400d3]WC I agree with you that some bullying can be stopped by just adjusting your actions, but what if your individuality isn't your hobbies or the way you dress? What if it's something like your religion, or your ethnic background, or your sexual orientation? Or what if it's how much money your family has?[/color] [/QUOTE]
If somebody is "bullying" you based on religion, ethnic background, or sexual orientation then I'd say it goes beyond simply bullying. This would be a case of sombody with a previously bad experience or only knows of a sterotype (or in some cases just their parent's programming of the person) who develops a prejudice towards some group of people going up to one such person, and unfairly discriminates against this person because of their religion, ethnic background or sexual orientation.

You seem to have this really ****ed up view on discrimination and think it's limited to the very social extremes. That is quite false. Although those types of things are a lot more drastic and require much quicker action, there is still tons of discrimination outside of them. If someone is "bullying" (and I put it in quotations because it really is more along the lines of discriminaion) on someone else because of a sterotype, then this person is really messed up. The "bully" is not just bored, but is down right idiotic and rude. Showing respect and tolerating each others non-changable differences is the only way society can get along and advance further. If these scabs on society keep going around breaking these rules then I'd say they're a big problem.

You seem to have a problem with the fact that most of the groups I was saying someone in this situation should go seek help from often preech about equality then turn around demanding something extra like tax breaks or simply blame some other race/group. Well I have a problem with this as well. But the only way to continue life fairly as a society we have to learn to accept other types of people. Only then with the stupidity of preeching equality then turning around and asking for something totally unfair stop.

Anyway, I've dragged myself off topic.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Chaos]If someone kills themselves over something so small, then they are too weak-minded to even have been born. The world is a better place without them. And yes, I have no shame. I say this because it is a fact. I would go in to a long Darwinism rant, but I've made my point.
[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]It's amazing what people will say when they've never been put into these kinds of situations.

Yes, some people are weak. I'd say having to constantly rag on someone because of how they look is a pretty big weakness and if I had my way we'd just kill off the bullies. How's that sound?

But think of it this way. First there's name calling, then it escalates to physical violence. Or some really fun death threats and the school faculty refusing to do anything about it because 'The student [victim] brought it upon himself or herself.' You've got to admit that there is only so much an average person could take before losing it. Either they go on a shooting rampage or they shoot themselves. If the abuse goes on unchecked for a few years some people are likely to just give up. I think it's kind of harsh to be glad that someone killed themself. You may as well say that it's the person's fault that they attended the same school as the bully.

And to clarify my other views on unchangeable circumstances. Harrassment and hate crimes are a form of bullying. It doesn't have to happen in school to be considered bullying.[/color]

[Hevn]

[quote name='Chaos']If someone kills themselves over something so small, then they are too weak-minded to even have been born. The world is a better place without them. And yes, I have no shame. I say this because it is a fact. I would go in to a long Darwinism rant, but I've made my point.[/quote]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]A LOT of people kill themselves over something so small. Heck some people do suicide when they fail in school, when they get heart breaks, and a lot more simple and stupid reasons. It does not justify that they are weak and even if they are, no one but God would know if it is entirely their fault and that does not justify that the weak should not be given the privilege to walk the face of the earth. God chooses who lives and from what I know God gives people, weak or strong, the chance to live.

The "Strong shall live and the weak should perish" attitude of yours really makes the world not a better place to live in. God made each person different. Weak people do exist! It is reality that some people are unlucky to not be taught how to be strong.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR] :nono:

[Dan L]

[quote name='Chaos']If someone kills themselves over something so small, then they are too weak-minded to even have been born. The world is a better place without them. And yes, I have no shame. I say this because it is a fact. I would go in to a long Darwinism rant, but I've made my point.[/quote]

Well I say you're wrong, because what you just said is a load of horse ****, and [i]that[/i]'s a fact.

I'd go on a long, pastoral rant, but given that it seems OK to make a blunt, opinionated, unsupported "fact" and leave it that way, I don't think I will.

[Chaos]

[quote name='ZakuSage']If somebody is "bullying" you based on religion, ethnic background, or sexual orientation then I'd say it goes beyond simply bullying. This would be a case of sombody with a previously bad experience or only knows of a sterotype (or in some cases just their parent's programming of the person) who develops a prejudice towards some group of people going up to one such person, and unfairly discriminates against this person because of their religion, ethnic background or sexual orientation. [/quote]


I obviously read the post you were addressing because I quoted it. Dur.

I understand WHAT you are saying, but it's faulted. Bullying does not cross over into a hate-crime; they are two seperate things. There is bullying; shoving someone around, making fun of them, and trying to exploit them for gain, be it mental or physical. There is hate; where you harm someone to a great extent, and openly admit, that you did it for discriminatory measures. A guy beating up another guy because he doesn't like the way he looked at him is bullying. Jumping a guy with six other dudes because he is black and breaking ribs, arms, etc. in the process is a hate crime.

If you're a fan of South Park, I suggest you look at the episode where Cartman hits Token. Wonderful example of how incredibly [i]stupid[/i] people can be regarding those types of situations.


[quote name='ZakuSage']You seem to have this really ****ed up view on discrimination and think it's limited to the very social extremes. That is quite false. Although those types of things are a lot more drastic and require much quicker action, there is still tons of discrimination outside of them. If someone is "bullying" (and I put it in quotations because it really is more along the lines of discriminaion) on someone else because of a sterotype, then this person is really messed up. The "bully" is not just bored, but is down right idiotic and rude. Showing respect and tolerating each others non-changable differences is the only way society can get along and advance further. If these scabs on society keep going around breaking these rules then I'd say they're a big problem.[/quote]


Yes. All of my views are ****** the Hell up. Thank you for your input.

My views are not limited. They're [b]real[/b] truths. Say a black kid beats up a white kid. Is it because the white kid called him a slur? Is it because the black kid doesn't like white people? Maybe. Is it because the white kid said something about the black kid's mom? Is it because the black kid wanted to steal something? Is it because the black kid was trying to get something back? Maybe. My point being: Racial issues and ethically issues are not as widespread as you see on Law and Order and all of that ****. Yes, they happen. Yes, they are controvercal. Yes, they can get ugly. But every case should not be treated like one.

Another prime example; let's use Chibi's. Say I buy some clothes from Goodwill and some clothes from Hot Topic. You make fun of me for wearing used and resold clothing. Does that make it a discriminatory issue? [b]No.[/b] It is a simple outlet used by you to attempt to degrade me. When I wear new clothing from Hot Topic, can you then call me poor? A loser? No, because Hot Topic is over-priced and over-rated. Which is another rant. Forgive the sidetracking.

"Showing respect and tolerating each others non-changable differences is the only way society can get along and advance further."

You think so? It's idealistic, I'll agree, but not practical. Because, eventually, someone is going to do something you do not agree with. And, also, according to that, you'd have to respect and tolerate the likes of Hitler, Charles Manson, etc. No, I think not. I'd rather not live in a world saluting Mein Furher with one hand and waving goodbye to hookers with the other.

The most simplistic idea would work best; everyone minds his own ******* business. Keep opinions to yourself and friends. Granted, it goes against everything the human mind is built for, but we would survive within themselves. It's as simple as not caring if a gay couple gets married. Not caring if someone is black, white, red, orange, green, whatever. Not caring if someone dislikes your clothes. Hell, you shouldn't even care about someone else's clothing. Yes, you may still communicate and have a good time and all, just don't be ******* ignorant. You can say a lot more by staying silent in some cases.


"But the only way to continue life fairly as a society we have to learn to accept other types of people. Only then with the stupidity of preeching equality then turning around and asking for something totally unfair stop."

A nobel idea. An impossible one, but nobel. I have to ask though, if preeching and practicing equality is stupid, what right have you to even discuss moral issues? Granted, I don't agree with an apologetic memorial dedicated to slaves who've been dead for over a hundred years, nor do I think we need to, for example, pay for grievences of any sort caused in the distant past, but with that quote of itself, that seems a little segregational. I know what you're saying, but it just caught my eye as odd.

As for accepting everyone for whom they are, regard to paragraph above retaining the responce to the prior.


[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]It's amazing what people will say when they've never been put into these kinds of situations.

Yes, some people are weak. I'd say having to constantly rag on someone because of how they look is a pretty big weakness and if I had my way we'd just kill off the bullies. How's that sound?

But think of it this way. First there's name calling, then it escalates to physical violence. Or some really fun death threats and the school faculty refusing to do anything about it because 'The student [victim] brought it upon himself or herself.' You've got to admit that there is only so much an average person could take before losing it. Either they go on a shooting rampage or they shoot themselves. If the abuse goes on unchecked for a few years some people are likely to just give up. I think it's kind of harsh to be glad that someone killed themself. You may as well say that it's the person's fault that they attended the same school as the bully.

And to clarify my other views on unchangeable circumstances. Harrassment and hate crimes are a form of bullying. It doesn't have to happen in school to be considered bullying.[/color][/QUOTE]


You assume I've never known someone who has commited suicide? Or tried to? How naive. I've been in the company of death for a while; I've personally seen someone kill themself, I've personally prevented friends from killing themselves, and I've personally been to funerals of people who have killed themselves. And yes, some were from mental/physical abuse. I know what I'm talking about, and yes, I stick to the term that the world is better off without them.

The bullies that "have to constantly rag" on people are weak as well. The ones that do it for fun or for a purpose, though, are part of the American dream. Killing them all serves a backwards purpose in the most golden route that can come from taunting.

Like I said, if someone can't stick up for themselves or seek real help after having their *** whooped, then they deserve whatever they get. Instead of crying in your room and writing drafts for your suicide note, go out and do something. Either a) get someone to help/train you, b) ask help from a friend or family memeber, or c) grow some balls and stand up to whomever is doing all of this. The few cases, and, yes, face it, there are few, that result in gun rampages are by the ones who are too stupid to do anything else. I'll admit I've thought about killing people. I'll even admit that I enjoy these thoughts. But I will tell you that unless my life depends on it, I won't be killing someone who is trying to bring me down. It's utter stupidity otherwise.

Darwinism presents itself here. Those that kill themselves often do not live long enough to pass on their genes, ensuring the survival of the ones who overcame. The strong outlast the weak. Even in abundance of infidelity, because the strong adapt and the weak put a bullet in their mouth. Simple.

And yes, bullying takes place outside of schools, but not in such flagrancy. Because people have generally grown up and -- surprise, surprise -- adapted.


[QUOTE=`hEvN][COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]A LOT of people kill themselves over something so small. Heck some people do suicide when they fail in school, when they get heart breaks, and a lot more simple and stupid reasons. It does not justify that they are weak and even if they are, no one but God would know if it is entirely their fault and that does not justify that the weak should not be given the privilege to walk the face of the earth. God chooses who lives and from what I know God gives people, weak or strong, the chance to live.

The "Strong shall live and the weak should perish" attitude of yours really makes the world not a better place to live in. God made each person different. Weak people do exist! It is reality that some people are unlucky to not be taught how to be strong.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR] :nono:[/QUOTE]


Yes, it does justify that they are weak. If they were [i]strong[/i], they would get over or pass the problem. A weak person succumbs; a strong person conquers.

If you want to bring God in this, know that, then, God does not dictate us, because of free will. It's in the Bible that God is a pacifist lord and has sworn not to interfere with humankind again after the great flood.

Please, leave the religion at the door. It has no purpose in any form of life.

I make the world a not a better place to live in because of realist views? Pfft. Enlightenment starts with disregarding all idealistic views, friend.

You make a good point that "It is reality that some people are unlucky to not be taught how to be strong." Sadly, it's a good point for [i]me[/i]. You just admitted that not only are people taught to be strong and those that are not are left behind, but you also contridicted that even though God makes us [b]us[/b], we can still be changed, tossing aside the notion of "Fate."


[QUOTE=Dan L]Well I say you're wrong, because what you just said is a load of horse ****, and [i]that[/i]'s a fact.

I'd go on a long, pastoral rant, but given that it seems OK to make a blunt, opinionated, unsupported "fact" and leave it that way, I don't think I will.[/QUOTE]


Very well; point and case.

In Africa, before the malaria vaccinations, thousands died at the hands of tiny insects. After a while, being saturated in the virus, certain genetic lines began to fade out, while others meanwhile buffered themselves against the tiny strands of DNA and mRNA. The virus continued, claiming less lives by the generation, until the former strong were overtaken by a new, even more resistant bloodline of humans. The weak were weeded out and the strong prevailed to pass on their lineage.

Similarly, the weak-minded only see the world for torment and abuse and kill themselves, and others in the process sometimes, in a means to escape it like a coward. Inversely, the strong-minded take what they have and mold themselves to fit lock-and-key into life. And they are the ones who produce young and continue the ebb and flow of life.

There. A brief message in Applied Darwinism. Please, feel free to prove me and billions of years of evolution wrong.

[ZakuSage]

Chaos: I don't even know where to start.... chronologically alright?

[QUOTE]I understand WHAT you are saying, but it's faulted. Bullying does not cross over into a hate-crime; they are two seperate things.[/QUOTE]You don't seem to understand the difference between discrimination and hate-crimes. Checking the dictionary:

Discrimination: [[color=black]n] [/color][url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/unfair"][color=black]unfair[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/treatment"][color=black]treatment[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/of"][color=black]of[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/a"][color=black]a[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/person"][color=black]person[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/or"][color=black]or[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/group"][color=black]group[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/on"][color=black]on[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/the"][color=black]the[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/basis"][color=black]basis[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/of"][color=black]of[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/prejudice"][color=black]prejudice[/color][/url]
Hate-Crime: [[color=black]n] [/color][u]A crime motivated by prejudice against a social group[/u]

[QUOTE] There is bullying; shoving someone around, making fun of them, and trying to exploit them for gain, be it mental or physical. There is hate; where you harm someone to a great extent, and openly admit, that you did it for discriminatory measures. [/QUOTE]Lets take another gander at the ol' dictionary:

Hate: [n] t[u]he emotion of hate;[/u][url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/a"][color=black]a[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/feeling"][color=black]feeling[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/of"][color=black]of[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/dislike"][color=black]dislike[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/so"][color=black]so[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/strong"][color=black]strong[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/that"][color=black]that[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/it"][color=black]it[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/demands"][color=black]demands[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/action"][color=black]action[/color][/url]

That sounds about right for discrimination and hate-crimes. When you talk about prejudice, you seem to be only thinking of hate. However, most prejudices are based on fear.

Fear:[color=black] [n] [/color][url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/an"][color=black]an[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/emotion"][color=black]emotion[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/experienced"][color=black]experienced[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/in"][color=black]in[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/anticipation"][color=black]anticipation[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/of"][color=black]of[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/some"][color=black]some[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/specific"][color=black]specific[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/pain"][color=black]pain[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/or"][color=black]or[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/danger"][color=black]danger[/color][/url] [color=black][u]([/u][/color][url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/usually"][color=black]usually[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/accompanied"][color=black]accompanied[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/by"][color=black]by[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/a"][color=black]a[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/desire"][color=black]desire[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/to"][color=black]to[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/flee"][color=black]flee[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/or"][color=black]or[/color][/url] [url="http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/fight"][color=black]fight[/color][/url][color=black][u])[/u] [/color]

Prejudices often bulid because of sterotypical views on groups. If someone fears this sterotype, a prejudice could form towards this group. This prejudice (prejudice meaning pre judging) can lead to hate. This hate can lead to discrimination. If discrimintaion reaches a level where it's criminal (aka, commiting a crime), it is a hate-crime.

I hope that clears a few things up. I'm talking about discrimination, not hate crimes.

[QUOTE]A guy beating up another guy because he doesn't like the way he looked at him is bullying. Jumping a guy with six other dudes because he is black and breaking ribs, arms, etc. in the process is a hate crime.[/QUOTE]Howabout a mix of the two? A guy beating another guy because he is muslim and holds a discriminatory view towards that group formed from his prejudice of the person. The person may also mask his prejudice as something else, but it is still there (much in the same way many people mask homophobia as hate). What would you call this? I call it discrimination, and that is what I was talking about in my post. I was talking about somebody getting bullyed because they are muslem, or black, or jewish, or even because their family couldn't afford a very good pair of glasses.

[QUOTE]If you're a fan of South Park, I suggest you look at the episode where Cartman hits Token. Wonderful example of how incredibly [i]stupid[/i] people can be regarding those types of situations.[/QUOTE]I am a fan of South Park. But I will tell you this: Cartman's motive in throwing a stone at Token was not because he had a prejudice and discriminated against Token (although he does hold many prejudices), it was because he wouldn't stop calling Cartman fat. In this case I'd actually say Cartman was discriminated againsts. Everyone assumed that because he was a white person throwing a stone at a black person that it must be racism. When in fact anyone deducting this is practicing racism.

[QUOTE]My views are not limited. They're [b]real[/b] truths. Say a black kid beats up a white kid. Is it because the white kid called him a slur? Is it because the black kid doesn't like white people? Maybe. Is it because the white kid said something about the black kid's mom? Is it because the black kid wanted to steal something? Is it because the black kid was trying to get something back? Maybe. My point being: Racial issues and ethically issues are not as widespread as you see on Law and Order and all of that ****. Yes, they happen. Yes, they are controvercal. Yes, they can get ugly. But every case should not be treated like one.[/QUOTE]Refer to my above paragraph for an answer to this. You're reading out of context. Not once did I ever say that any crime commited between races is automatically a hate crime.

[QUOTE]Another prime example; let's use Chibi's. Say I buy some clothes from Goodwill and some clothes from Hot Topic. You make fun of me for wearing used and resold clothing. Does that make it a discriminatory issue? [b]No.[/b] It is a simple outlet used by you to attempt to degrade me. When I wear new clothing from Hot Topic, can you then call me poor? A loser? No, because Hot Topic is over-priced and over-rated. Which is another rant. Forgive the sidetracking.[/QUOTE]Sidetracking aside, this does not apply either. Are they making fun of [b]your clothes[/b] or [b]you[/b]. In this case I'd say your clothes. The bully is not (here I go again with the stuff etched into my memory by my Social Studies teacher Mr. Herrit) discriminating against the person but against the clothes. They hold a sterotype that clothes from goodwill are bad, this develops into fear that they might one day have to wear it, this grows into hate, this hate turns into a discrimination against the clothes and not the person. Were it that the person held a sterotype that all poor people get clothes from goodwill, and then fears that he may be seen as poor and a "goodwill shopper", which creates hate towards the poor, and then he runs into someone he already knows is poor and asks them something along the lines of, "did you get those sorry clothes from goodwill?", then that would be discrimination against the person.

[QUOTE]You think so? It's idealistic, I'll agree, but not practical. Because, eventually, someone is going to do something you do not agree with. And, also, according to that, you'd have to respect and tolerate the likes of Hitler, Charles Manson, etc. No, I think not. I'd rather not live in a world saluting Mein Furher with one hand and waving goodbye to hookers with the other.[/QUOTE]If you knew anything about Hitler and Manson, you'd know that the way they turned out was in fact because of peoples view towards them. Hitlar wouldn't have gone on to be one of the most ruthless men in the history of human kind were it not for so many people not accepting who he was or the things he did. If you've seen any documentaries about him, you'd know that the struggles he went through were brought about by things that are easilly changable: people's attitudes towards each other.

I'll agree to you that it isn't the most practical idea, but it is indeed the only way humans will ever be able stop discrimination.

[QUOTE]The most simplistic idea would work best; everyone minds his own ******* business. Keep opinions to yourself and friends. Granted, it goes against everything the human mind is built for, but we would survive within themselves. It's as simple as not caring if a gay couple gets married. Not caring if someone is black, white, red, orange, green, whatever. Not caring if someone dislikes your clothes. Hell, you shouldn't even care about someone else's clothing. Yes, you may still communicate and have a good time and all, just don't be ******* ignorant. You can say a lot more by staying silent in some cases.[/QUOTE]Well say one day all the world leaders get together for... a barbeque. They annouce one of 2 things: everyone keep to yourselves, and do not vent anything. or they all announce: everyone be accepting of each other. Which "new world" would you rather live in? The problem with simplistic ideas is that they aren't thought out. The only real way to solve complex social issues is to come up with complex social fixes (my political brain talking again).

[QUOTE]A nobel idea. An impossible one, but nobel. I have to ask though, if preeching and practicing equality is stupid, what right have you to even discuss moral issues? Granted, I don't agree with an apologetic memorial dedicated to slaves who've been dead for over a hundred years, nor do I think we need to, for example, pay for grievences of any sort caused in the distant past, but with that quote of itself, that seems a little segregational. I know what you're saying, but it just caught my eye as odd.[/QUOTE]Woah woah woah! When did I ever say preeching and practicing equality was stupid? What I said (not my exact words, but better summed up) was preeching equality then practicing inequality (IMO, greedyness) is stupid.



[QUOTE]You assume I've never known someone who has commited suicide? Or tried to? How naive. I've been in the company of death for a while; I've personally seen someone kill themself, I've personally prevented friends from killing themselves, and I've personally been to funerals of people who have killed themselves. And yes, some were from mental/physical abuse. I know what I'm talking about, and yes, I stick to the term that the world is better off without them.

The bullies that "have to constantly rag" on people are weak as well. The ones that do it for fun or for a purpose, though, are part of the American dream. Killing them all serves a backwards purpose in the most golden route that can come from taunting.

Like I said, if someone can't stick up for themselves or seek real help after having their *** whooped, then they deserve whatever they get. Instead of crying in your room and writing drafts for your suicide note, go out and do something. Either a) get someone to help/train you, b) ask help from a friend or family memeber, or c) grow some balls and stand up to whomever is doing all of this. The few cases, and, yes, face it, there are few, that result in gun rampages are by the ones who are too stupid to do anything else. I'll admit I've thought about killing people. I'll even admit that I enjoy these thoughts. But I will tell you that unless my life depends on it, I won't be killing someone who is trying to bring me down. It's utter stupidity otherwise.

Darwinism presents itself here. Those that kill themselves often do not live long enough to pass on their genes, ensuring the survival of the ones who overcame. The strong outlast the weak. Even in abundance of infidelity, because the strong adapt and the weak put a bullet in their mouth. Simple.[/QUOTE]Darwin was talking about evolution. We are talking about advancing as a socieity. If we kill every person who was weak then everyone would be dead. Your idea of only the best should be living doesn't work... in fact it's about as narrow minded as the views Hitler had.

[QUOTE]I make the world a not a better place to live in because of realist views? Pfft. Enlightenment starts with disregarding all idealistic views, friend.[/QUOTE]Realistic? What is so realistic about thinking that 1 human has more right to live then another? I'll tell you: nothing.The US constitution says it best: all men are created equal.

[QUOTE]In Africa, before the malaria vaccinations, thousands died at the hands of tiny insects. After a while, being saturated in the virus, certain genetic lines began to fade out, while others meanwhile buffered themselves against the tiny strands of DNA and mRNA. The virus continued, claiming less lives by the generation, until the former strong were overtaken by a new, even more resistant bloodline of humans. The weak were weeded out and the strong prevailed to pass on their lineage

Similarly, the weak-minded only see the world for torment and abuse and kill themselves, and others in the process sometimes, in a means to escape it like a coward. Inversely, the strong-minded take what they have and mold themselves to fit lock-and-key into life. And they are the ones who produce young and continue the ebb and flow of life.[/QUOTE]Please tell me you're not comparing a virus to society... I didn't think it was possible for someone to be so cold blooded as to compare the complex moral and mental issues in society to something as simple (by comparison) as immunities to viruses. You seem to see society as nothing more then mechanical. In reality, society is a complex web of human issues, human kindness, human hate, human love, human lust, and human desire (there are others, but it's late and I'm tired). You cannot reduce the shear scope of reasons as to why someone might want to kill themselves down to that.

[Hevn]

[quote name='Chaos]If they were [i]strong[/i'], they would get over or pass the problem. A weak person succumbs; a strong person conquers.[/quote]
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]While this statement is entirely true, it still doesn't justify the fact that the world would be a better place without them. It is a reality that people kill themselves over something so small while it is idealistic that the world would be a better place without weak people. A world with only strong people? C'mon.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[quote name='Chaos']If you want to bring God in this, know that, then, God does not dictate us, because of free will. It's in the Bible that God is a pacifist lord and has sworn not to interfere with humankind again after the great flood.[/quote]
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]I know of free will. I never said anything about God dictating us. And God didn't say He wouldn't interfere. Please recall the covenant.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[quote name='Chaos']Please, leave the religion at the door. It has no purpose in any form of life.[/quote]
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]It's not religion. I don't even believe in religion but I believe there is a God who is kind and merciful enough to love and defend weak people. He said so to Gideon and to all of us "I will be with you" when we feel inadequate.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[quote name='Chaos']I make the world a not a better place to live in because of realist views? Pfft. Enlightenment starts with disregarding all idealistic views, friend.[/quote]
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]Well, do you really think the weak should perish? Can't weak and strong people live together in the same world?[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[quote name='Chaos]You make a good point that "It is reality that some people are unlucky to not be taught how to be strong." Sadly, it's a good point for [i]me[/i]. You just admitted that not only are people taught to be strong and those that are not are left behind, but you also contridicted that even though God makes us [b]us[/b'], we can still be changed, tossing aside the notion of "Fate."[/quote]
[COLOR=RoyalBlue][B][SIZE=1]Free will and fate are such nice and contradicting issue to discuss isn't it?

My replies to you are short and explains little because I'm afraid saying anything beyond what I have said would be really off topic. As a matter of fact, what I have said here are off topic.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

[Dan L]

[QUOTE=Chaos]Very well; point and case.

In Africa, before the malaria vaccinations, thousands died at the hands of tiny insects. After a while, being saturated in the virus, certain genetic lines began to fade out, while others meanwhile buffered themselves against the tiny strands of DNA and mRNA. The virus continued, claiming less lives by the generation, until the former strong were overtaken by a new, even more resistant bloodline of humans. The weak were weeded out and the strong prevailed to pass on their lineage.

Similarly, the weak-minded only see the world for torment and abuse and kill themselves, and others in the process sometimes, in a means to escape it like a coward. Inversely, the strong-minded take what they have and mold themselves to fit lock-and-key into life. And they are the ones who produce young and continue the ebb and flow of life.

There. A brief message in Applied Darwinism. Please, feel free to prove me and billions of years of evolution wrong.[/QUOTE]

I have no intention of proving evolution wrong in that respect, but I do believe that your application is off:

Firstly, Darwinian evolution only really applies to the [i]physical[/i] characteristics of a species. When speaking of the evolution of various species, you don't really talk about their emotional character as a species; mostly because the generations that have come before are already dead, so it's a little hard to study that. Maybe psychology had some part to play in evolution- but quite frankly, there's no proof, and no possibility of proof, so it's not really worth considering as definite fact.

Secondly, not all of the weak-minded actually go off and kill themselves, but they deal with it in some other way, and often they do end up having kids. But that's a lesser point given that you could say the same of many of the weak in standard evolution.

Lastly, whether you are immune to malaria or not is an innate characteristic- unless you've had an injection- it has been with you, or not, since you were born. And if not, then it's up to your own body's defenses to develop a defense against it. However, whether you are weak or strong in mind has a hell of a lot to do with your upbringing. Some parents just don't know how to bring up their kids, so for one reason or another they have a very weak upbringing and thus they become "weak-minded". The biggest problem with your application of evolution is that even the strong-minded people, can completely screw up on bringing up their kids. They can over-pamper them, so that when they need to take responsibility, or when they come into trouble, they don't know what to do. They can completely ignore them, in which case who knows how their kid would turn out, that one seems a bit of a mixed bag.. The main point is that yes, the strong [i]may[/i] be more likely to actually have kids in the first place, but the problem with the mind is that you can't guarantee that the next generation will have the same characteristics unless you nurture them that way.

[quote name='Chaos]You make a good point that "It is reality that some people are unlucky to not be taught how to be strong." Sadly, it's a good point for [i]me[/i]. You just admitted that not only are people taught to be strong and those that are not are left behind, but you also contridicted that even though God makes us [b]us[/b'], we can still be changed, tossing aside the notion of "Fate."[/quote]

At first I wasn't particularly bothered about answering any more quotes than the one at the top, but then I saw this one.

It's true that God makes us a certain way, and everyone different. He made me a very pastoral person, and also introverted, in that more often than not I need space in order to rest, and just generally need to be away from people every once in a while. It also means that I'm naturally quite quiet.

God made me that way, and I've been like that for years- now that I realise it I've always been that way. What I also had at the start of this year was huge self-confidence issues, and a lack of vision. In the last year I've become massively more confident in myself, and thus at doing things which I'd normally chicken out of last year. I've also been more active in trying to find out what I really want to do, and now I have a decent idea of where I actually want to go with my life. But I'm [i]still[/i] pastoral, and I'm [i]still[/i] an introvert; those things can't be changed.

There are some things which are part of the way God makes you, and they are innate in your soul. Those are the things which you come to [i]realise[/i] about your character, and the way you function. There are other things which hold you back- emotional issues, tendecncies towards depression, inherent anger, low self confidence, etc. which are a product of your life, and you get to choose whether you want to keep them or to be changed into someone who doesn't have those restrictions.

For someone brought up to be "weak", there are often more emotional issues and less of a realisation that actually, they [i]can[/i] be rid of them. But a weak person most definitely shouldn't just be killed, but supported and helped to get rid of all the issues that keep them in that mindset.

The main point is that yes, God made us as individuals, and there are things about us which he put in us. But there is also free will in that we can take a whole load of other stuff on, and we can choose whether or not to go with what God intended.