Presidental Election 2004

[dposse]

This thread is here to decuss and debate the Presidental Election 2004. There has been a major announcment today. John Kerry said today that he picks Senitor John Edwards of North Carolina to be his running mate.

I think that in this thread, we should talk about 10 things:

1) John Kerrys announcement today
2) How the race is shaping up
3) The big topics that the race will focuss on: Economy, War in Iraq, ect.
4) Ralph Nader
5) The ad wars and the medias role in politics.
6) Controversies in the Race: Halliburton, ect
7) Who do you think will win the race?
8) Who do you want to win the Race?
9) Will you vote?
10) anything and everything not listed here.

I think that Kerrys decision today was the best thing that he could have done. John Edwards was a big hit in the south. He also has a connection to the normal people that Kerry doesn't have. I think it's that southeren attitude he has. John Edwards was a great pick to be VP.

The race is shaping up to be a very close one. I think that it will be like the last election where a few votes will determine who is elected.

The big topics that each canidate has to answer is the War in Iraq and the economy. John Kerry has to do a better job at explaining his postitions. John Kerry hasn't done a great job doing that.

I think that Ralph Nader is a joke. Isn't this his 4th time he has run for the White House? He only gets about 3 percent of the vote. But, he could be the deciding factor in the race. That 3 or 4 precent is enough to swing the win to Bush. That is because, like i said before, this will be a close race.

The ad wars are becoming nasty. The attacks by both sides seem endless. One side attacks there voting record, and another attacks his past. The media has a little too much influence in my opinion. The huge coverage that the media gives to subject sometimes turns the attention away from the bigger issues.

I think that there should be an investagation into these reports of wrongdoings in things like Halliburton. If the VP has done things to warrent these allegations, then something is wrong.

I am not too sure who i think will win the race. It is a little too close to call now.

I want John Kerry to win. It is not that i like his postition on issues or anything like that. It is just a question of who is the lesser of the two evils. And i think that Kerry is the lesser of the two evils.

I won't vote because i'm 2 years too young. You have to be 18, right? Well, i'm too young to vote.

Too tell the truth, i can't thing of anything more to put. If you can, then please post your ideas for topics here.

Please decuss and debate the topics here in this thread

[Falkon]

Now, I'm only 15, but knowing what Bush has done in his... "career" isnt exactly comforting. Take a look at Fahrenheit 9/11 and youll see EXACTLY why i hate him. He didnt win the last election fairly, he has done a miserable job of keeping up with peoples demands, he treats the "enemy" better than citizens of the U.S. (and by enemy Im talking about the Saudis, the Iraqis, the Afghanis). But that brings us to another point: Those people are not the enemy. Bush went in and tried to find weapons of mass destruction. where are they? ok an aspirin factory does not count. So far we have killed more people trying to "liberate" other people than they have. This war is a terrible idea because many many families are losing sons, husbbands, daughters, even wives. Now, i support our troops, however, i do NOT support the "War On Terrorism." Ok, so you say you dont want more people attacking the U.S.? You want terrorism stopped? Its impossible, my friends. War is a never ending action. Terrorism is a never ending action. We can kill all the mid-eastern people we want, but when it comes down to it, were the ones terrorizing. Sure Arabs came in and attacked us, but i think its what we deserve. Down with Bush I say, down with Bush.

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]I say this in the nicest possible way: anyone who holds works by Micheal Moore as reasonable pieces of evidence in any argument is an idiot, unless the argument is about what a big fat bastard Micheal Moore is.

Anyway, doesn't this thread already exist?[/color][/size][/font]

[Danethol]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]I say this in the nicest possible way: anyone who holds works by Micheal Moore as reasonable pieces of evidence in any argument is an idiot, unless the argument is about what a big fat bastard Micheal Moore is.

Anyway, doesn't this thread already exist?[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

Deathbug, have you actually [U]seen[/U] the movie? I'm not trying to start an argument/debate with you, I just recommend that you should check out the opposing side before shooting your mouth off. And if you [U]have[/U] seen it...well, shoot me in the mouth for being a [B]n00b.[/B]

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Which movie? [i]Farenheitt 9/11[/i]? No, I haven't; based on my past experiences with the works of Micheal Moore, I cannot validate giving him money in any way, shape or form.

Besides, my comments regarding Micheal Moore aren't regarding the liberal establishment of America; they're regarding Micheal Moore himself. Anyone who behaves as he has and continues to deserves riduicule, no matter what ideology they advocate.[/color][/size][/font]

[Danethol]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Which movie? [i]Farenheitt 9/11[/i]? No, I haven't; based on my past experiences with the works of Micheal Moore, I cannot validate giving him money in any way, shape or form.

Besides, my comments regarding Micheal Moore aren't regarding the liberal establishment of America; they're regarding Micheal Moore himself. Anyone who behaves as he has and continues to deserves riduicule, no matter what ideology they advocate.[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

I was aware you were commenting on Moore, and not liberals; I say again, you should see the movie before criticizing him. You can't exactly get info/facts about the movie from the web, because any republican/democrat run website is bound to have bias about the movie, one way or another. Anyway, if you wanna talk about this somewhere else (like PM or aim), I'm all for it. But as it is, I'm afraid I've turned dposse's presidential thread into another fight about Farenheit 9/11, and I don't wanna be known as a topic de-railer. Lol.

[InuyashaLvr]

[COLOR=RoyalBlue][I] Well... Let's see...

I can't take your poll. I can't stand either Bush or Kerry! Neither of them should be our president! That's why I wish someone would rise up and beat both of them!!!

Reasons why::

Bush...
Hmm... What is there really to say about him? Ah! I know something!! WE'RE KIND OF AT WAR! Yes. That'll do. He has the power to stop this war, and he won't do it!¡!Doesn't he know how bad of an influence it is? Guess not... He's still killing many innocent civilians of Iraq, and our own men. Yeah! He's a GREAT guy! right... Plus illegal usage of anime in one of his ads! I mean come on! I know it's not that hard to go up to an anime compony and say " Yes, may we please use a picture of Wolfwood off of Trigun in one of our ads?" there is even a thread about that on otaku! Search for it! O.k. Enough about him...

Kerry...
Hmm... Well lets see... For one, he doesn't want to support our troops! I know they shouldn't be over there, but while they are at least give them something to stay alive with! Do you not agree? Plus, he's so for tax raising! I may not have to pay taxes, but my parents do, and I know it's hard on them! Plus, again he's for raising gas prices! I mean come on! They're only two bucks a gallon! I'm so sorry my parents aren't rich Mr. Kerry!!!

So yeah... I'm only 14, so I can't exactly vote. But I wanted to voice my opinion. Whoever actually takes the time to read this, thanks! Do you agree???Well, I'm done! Bye!!!

~vanna~[/I][/COLOR]

[Vegitto4]

Having seen Farenheight(sp?) 9/11, I agree with death bug. The entire movie was Bush Bashing. There were a few facts. Not many.

Well, Bush hasn't done a spectacular job, but he has done alot better than Gore would have done. Kerry could only do worse. He's done well for himself by making money of the War. Yes, it seems wrong. Look at it this way. He isn't the mastermind behind all of it. Paul Wolfowitz, just like he did with HW Bush, has sucessfully pulled the wool over W.'s eye's.

Another thing is this, if people gripe about the time it took for the Retaliation against the Bombers of the WTC to begin, don't. They tried every way possible before taking military action. They tried to negotiate with the government's that were in power and harboring the terrorists that hit out country.

The War in Iraq- Sadaam made a deal with the UN, stating that he would let the weapons inspectors inside to look for WMD. Did he do that? No. In return for doing that, war would not ensue. He whent back on his end. He got what was comming to him.

Don't complain about the gas prices in the US. it's much higher in other countries. In Canada, it's 88.4 cents/litre. (i'm up here, that's how I know) In france, it's about $6.00/litre(change that into euros). The US is not paying the price of this war considiring our economy. It's not the best, but it is improving. We have come out of our recession. Be happy, and keep buying things to get our money into circulation. Take out loans so that the Federal Reserve will pump more money into the economic system.

I dont necessarily know each plank that the candidates are running on. I don't claim to either. The only thing I can guess, is that the reason that Halliburton is in the discussions is because Cheaney used to be the CEO, and they made alot of money. Whoopdee doo

I agree that we should give all our troops all the support they can get. They need it. They are becomming demoralized. When that happens, more of them die. I know, because I'm going to be one of them.

Ask me who i'm voting for in Nov.? Bush, because I dont see anybody else who can do a better job than he. If I saw another person who could, I'd vote for them.


::ends his part in debate which will only turn into a flamefest::

::refer's to last line in Sig::

[oshi]

Well, whether you like them or not, barring incidents listed in insurance policies as "Acts of God," one of these people is going to be your president. If you don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you'll have no right to complain afterward about how it turns out when your side didn't win. I realize, vanna, that you're too young to vote . . . but I think this applies to everyone.

I'll be voting for Kerry to win. We don't know everything he can do yet. But Bush . . . we've seen what he's done. And me, I want him to stop doing it.

And for a little perspective, as you stated, InuyashaLvr: Bush is taking lives, however indirectly. Kerry is going to make you pay more for gas. I know which one I'm going to choose.

That's my much-diluted opinion.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='oshi']Bush is taking lives, however indirectly. Kerry is going to make you pay more for gas. I know which one I'm going to choose.[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Hmm, higher gas prices or a lot more dead people. Possibly my husband included.

Well, my new car gets about 300 miles on an entire tank of gas, we pay less for gas than they do in Canada or Europe (some of them would kill to pay $2.15.9 a gallon) and if I really need to I can borrow money from my mom for gas in return for doing laundry.

And I really do love my husband, and I'm sure those other people over there have families who love them as well.

So uh I think I'm going to stick with voting for Kerry.

There are a few things I don't like about Bush, his persistance for a constitutional ban on gay marriage for one. To me that's just unconstitutional. Why doesn't he just try to reinstate the ban on interatial marriages as well? That's my reasoning on the subject. Calling it a need to uphold the sanctity of marriage is kind of funny. Is he that insecure with his marriage (that goes for the other right wing individuals as well) that he thinks two men or two women getting married is going to weaken his relationship with Laura?

Then there's this whole war in Iraq thing. We've lost over 800 people since March 2003 most of these causualties have been after the ceasefire back in May 2003 and to quote my husband:[quote name='SPC L. Crisler'] Bush should rip out his tongue, wipe his *** with it then shove it back in his mouth for declaring a ceasefire two months into this war that nobody wanted[/quote]
There has been nothing to this day found to prove that Iraq had anything to do with Al Quaeda or Bin Ladin. Or the attacks on 9/11. We're pissing off more and more people on a daily basis. Even the people who enjoyed having us there have grown tired of us being in their country.

My opinion, we've turned it over. Now can we go home? I was watching the News on CBS today and when they showed the fallen hero today the guy had only recently been married and he was my age! There have been younger ones as well, only just reaching their twenties.

Bush is also too easily swayed by his advisors. If he had paid any attention to what his father had said back in '98 about invading Iraq, we wouldn't be in this giant **** fest (sorry, I couldn't think of a better way to phrase it). So yes, Bush did a bang up job back in 2001. But his fifteen minutes of fame are over. So let's have someoen else take a crack at the show. He's screwed up my family enough for four years.[/color]

[Danethol]

Holy crap, I completely forgot to say my position on the election; the next time I go off-topic, someone please slap me. I can't answer all of the questions, but I'll try the ones I do know.

[B]3) The big topics that the race will focuss on: Economy, War in Iraq, ect.[/B]
Economy - As far as I can see it, Bush has rammed our economy into the ground from a 10 story drop. Our country was booming under Clinton; I may not know much on numbers and graphs, but I do know our debt was never in the trillions with him. I will conceed that the economy has been improving slightly over the past few months; jobs have been increasing a tab as well. But that doesn't cover up his monumental mistakes. It's like releasing a mass-murderer after he helps a lilttle old lady cross the street. I've also heard people blaming the economy on 9/11. This is absurd. An attack of that scale [B]will[/B] throw us for an economic loop, noone's arguing that. However, our country should have been in a crisis for only a few months, not three or so years. It's something that the country should have been shaken by. then bounced back from. The past few years haven't been a bounce. They've been a slow, gradual, horribly slow hop. And we all know how different a bounce is from a hop.
.....shut up, I know what I'm saying. :shifty:

The War - I want to say now, the only positive thing I have to say about Bush was the premise of the war in Afghanistan. They were the ones who attacked us, and going after the people who were behind it was my numero uno desire. Except for one thing; bin Laden's still on the loose. How many people are looking for him? If Bush had sent numbers as big as the ones sent to Iraq after ol' Osama, he'd have been meditating in a prison cell by now (or getting the injection, whichever you'd prefer.) Instead, he took the rage the American people felt after 9/11 and slid it over to Iraq, under false pretenses, and directly against the U.N.s approval. The U.N. is built on a concept that all nations are equal; by invading against their will, Bush declared that the United States holds itself higher than the authority of other nations.

[B]4) Ralph Nader[/B]
Hey, more joke material for me. :laugh:

[B]5) The ad wars and the medias role in politics.[/B]
Well, I live in Texas, so I've never really [U]seen[/U] a Kerry ad yet...but as for the Bush ones, I was appalled at his original ad parading 9/11 around.

[B]6) Controversies in the Race: Halliburton, ect[/B]
I would love to rant about this too, but I'm afraid this post is long enough as it is. Lol. If anyone feels I'm just using this as a cover=up, PM me, and I'll be glad to tell you what I think.

As for the race, I desperately want Kerry to win, but I'm afraid Bush might. Hey, Gore should have won the first time around; what makes you think Dubya would'nt pull somethin' illegal-yet-politically-plausible again? Meh. Sorry for wastin' so much space, guys. I sometimes get carried away. :)

[Falkon]

[quote name='Vegitto4']Well, Bush hasn't done a spectacular job, but he has done alot better than Gore would have done. Kerry could only do worse.[/quote]
how can you say such a thing? Gore is not president, and Kerry hasnt been elected yet. Bush has done a good job. a good job on f**king up the world. Lets take a lok. Hmm, we're in one of the most costly wars (both in lives and money) that the United States has been in for a long time. The nations deficit is in ruins, and oh yes, why is it that bush didnt win the election fairly? hmmm... i seem to have repeat myself there. anyhow. sure Bush may pretend to care about the families whos sons/daughters/husbands/wives are on duty. but hes only pretending. he doesnt give a rats a**. would he care more if someone he knew and loved was in the war? maybe. maybe thats the only choice weve got.

[b]and now, the future president has to deal with the s**tload of problems bush is leaving in their seat. has Bush solved *any* problems in his career. lemme think. OH YES weve solved world terrorism. wait! what about that kid there on the street pushing that other kid around? thats terrorism. what about those kids in the school who use drugs and are forcing kids to do what they want? thats terrorism. How about that thief down the street whos threatening to blow the store clerks head off if she doesnt give him the money? thats terrorism. So i askl again, what has bush done? sure hes gone after some person in the middle east who has done nothing. HOLD IT! hes got weapons of mass destruction. hmm yes an aspirin factory sure would classify as a weapon of mass destruction if you ask me.[/b]

so i ask you: what has bush accomplished in his career?

[quote]Bush likes to say that his enormous tax cuts that give hundreds of billions of dollars to America's wealthiest people are job-creation programs. But America has bled millions of jobs since Bush's tax cuts became law, so it's time to try something new. Bush's new tactic? Beg China and Japan to increase the value of their currencies, which will make American manufacturers more competitive. But Bush has nothing to offer in return -- and has done little to make other countries inclined to offer him favors. Instead of making pointless pleas to other countries, maybe Bush should come up with an economic plan that would actually create jobs instead of just putting more money in the pockets of those who need it least. [/quote]

[URL=http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html]Source[/URL]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]As an object of contention, as it seems not everyone here is aware of it, there was a report [like, on the news] with the 500 page report showing that Iraq had no WMD [surprise!] and that Iraq had no connection to Al Quaeda [double surprise!!]. So, aside from the uuh... 'removing of an evil despot', Bush hasn't done much. The report highlighted 'glaring faults' and all this crap, basically saying that their information was wrong.

Which, from my side of the fence, sounds like utter ********. Just something you might like to consider.[/size]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]As an object of contention, as it seems not everyone here is aware of it, there was a report [like, on the news] with the 500 page report showing that Iraq had no WMD [surprise!] and that Iraq had no connection to Al Quaeda [double surprise!!]. So, aside from the uuh... 'removing of an evil despot', Bush hasn't done much. The report highlighted 'glaring faults' and all this crap, basically saying that their information was wrong.

Which, from my side of the fence, sounds like utter ********. Just something you might like to consider.[/size][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]I've been considering that since this whole stupid 'War to get rid of Sadam and Avenge my Daddy' started last year. None of it surprises me in the least. When his term is up Bush should go try to sell fertilizer back in the Lone Star state because the guy is full of ****. Pardon my Arabic.

Even more interesting is that now that this whole investigation into G.W.'s National Guard duty has come into play. His papers are suddenly mysterously gone! :eek: How convienant is that? His records of duty are missing just as soon as there's an investigation looking into whether he was AWOL for [b][i]two years[/i][/b] or not the records suddenly can't be found. That sounds a bit off to me. If his enlistment and attendance is in question, he really had no business sending those men and women off to war. I mean people talk about how Clinton was a schmuck and a draft dodger, but he never lied about an enlistment. I mean how can you not show up for duty for two years? I know the guy's an idiot, but come on! Nobody can get lost for two friggin' years!

Okay, off the questionable duty and on to some actual stuff.

Let's take a look at one of the most expensive yet necessary needs for today's family: Child care. There are people paying upwards of $1000 a year to have people watch their kids so they can work being a stay at home parent is a luxury that few can afford since the average salary is about $30,000 a year. (Less if you're military or anyone else below poverty level)

Kerry has a plan to lower the cost of child care, and give some relief to working parents.

Bush has no plan what so ever. Don't even start on the child tax credit because there were quite a few families who weren't eligible. A girl I worked with wasn't elligible because she earned [b]less [/b] than $20,000 a year. Yet more proof that Bush isn't thinking too much about the working class who make less than enough to keep them above poverty level. (Which as I keep saying includes the military. )

So now as a soon to be mommy, I think I'm definately going to vote for Kerry if only to get some affordable child care.[/color]