Anime Banning Anime

[PiroMunkie]

[quote name='Midnightsnow']if dont understand it, they dont want it. But if they just got to watch it and pay attention most anime isnt that bad and sometimes teaches valueable live lessons.[/quote][size=1]Anyone who thinks they learn valuable life lessons from anime probably [i]should[/i] be taken away from it for a while.[/size]

[densuke]

After reading this thread, which contains one guy lighting a (dimly flickering) match and 20 people fanning the flames of who-knows-what (they certainly don't - the original poster never said what this was all about), I think that [b]not only should anime be generally banned, but people who want to watch it should be forced to take some kind of test wherein they demonstrate that they can distinguish fantasy from reality[/b].

[natetron46]

Why are you on this board if you are so opposed to anime? I dont think that at all, everyone here can distinguish reality from fantasy.

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='densuke]After reading this thread, which contains one guy lighting a (dimly flickering) match and 20 people fanning the flames of who-knows-what (they certainly don't - the original poster never said what this was all about), I think that [b]not only should anime be generally banned, but people who want to watch it should be forced to take some kind of test wherein they demonstrate that they can distinguish fantasy from reality[/b'].[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]Densuke, please watch your tone. Regardless of whether the discussion in this thread is well-backed or not, there's no reason to be rude.[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

Speaking of the discussion in this thread, it hasn't really gone anywhere. The whole thing is so vague and hypothetical as to be virtually meaningless. I've been hoping that the topic would just die out on its own, but if people refuse to raise new points and continue beating what is essentially a dead horse, I won't hesitate to close it. As I said before, Heero Darkangel hasn't provided his comments with any kind of background or context.

~Dagger~

[5th Hokage]

i don't think cartoons should be banned because it's art where ever you live heero darkangel do they any protection laws on of art? but I'd say don't worry about it much this kind of stuff gets brought up all the time here in america and most of the time nothing comes of it. but I don't know the politics of your country so I can't be for sure



and that was quite rude densuke and the reason people are passionate is because everyone on this forum likes anime so people are gonna be defensive

[Solo Tremaine]

[color=#503f86]To clarify, Heero darkangel edited his post on July 24th:[/color]
[quote name='Heero Darkangel']I edited my thread a bit because of the i got a post from densuke (I think i spelt the name right) claiming that there are too many hotheads which naturally there would be because it is a touchy subject for cartoon lovers, I'm not looking for answers because that ruling is up to the government over here, i can't stop them if they decide to ban violent cartoons...Don't get me wrong I'm not impressed about what they're thinking of doing but as i said I just wanted to see what others thought of this. Now the name of the country i am talking about is NZ, this is where i'm from. A few years ago they were thinking of banning violent cartoons to keep the peace here but then noone heard anything about it until a while ago when the topic resurfaced, they had it on the news and they ran a servey about it on the Good Morning Show, some people agreed and some didn't. The government are still thinking about it and if there is anyone from NZ who is on here then YOU SHOULD KNOW! Now the only thing i wanted to know was what was your opinion on this...I didn't want to cause any conflict between anyone. I didn't want people thinking that this is a joke or someone asking for a summary on this subject all because they thought that there were too many hotheads and that i was looking for Answers! thats not what i wanted.[/quote][color=#503f86]I hope that sensible discussion can spring forth from this new information.

So, the country in question is NZ, which I interpret to be New Zealand.

There've been a number of scapegoating cases in the UK recently- a boy was found to have murdered another boy in a similar way he'd seen on Manhunt. He was under the game's recommended age range, but it was sold to him anyway. And now, of course, people are asking for the banning of the game and many others like it (UT2004, for example), as if it was the [i]sole[/i] cause of the trouble. Yes, these things can be violent, but for someone to actually go out and commit an act based on what they've seen they would have to have something physically or mentally wrong with them. A murderer would be a hard thing to create with games or anime alone.

If you think of how many millions of people play these games and watch these programs- it's the one or two problematic ones that always get seen. The fact that the rest of the (usually sane) population do these things on a day-to-day basis and have no problems is completely ignored because a lot of adults simply think children are children and don't understand that at some point they have to grow into adults, taking with them the vast and often harsh knowledge of the rest of the world that goes with it.

I'm not saying overly violent games and anime are necessarily good- I certainly don't watch them simply because I think they're rather tasteless. One problem is the difficulty to regulate what ages people are when they watch them. Obviously, you wouldn't want your ten-year-old watching Urotsukidoji, but some people find it... genuinely entertaining, I guess. I don't think restrictions should be put onto the creation and broadcasting of anime because it is entertainment and a form of art.

Besides, some other animations are just as bad, if not worse. You don't want to know some of the things I saw on shelves in Holland o_o;

Video games and age restrictions is a slightly different kettle of fish, as it affects people in different ways to anime. But I still think that a lot of this is blown out of proportion.

P.S. In future, Heero, it's probably an idea to post again with the new details- it can be hard to spot if a posts's been edited or not- breaking things up into paragraphs should make it clearer.[/color]

[Dagger]

Ah, my bad. I'm not sure what's wrong with "asking for a summary on this subject," but I'm glad that he provided one. The thing is, I'm not a citizen of New Zealand and have no familiarity with its government or legal system. Which laws allow (or don't allow) for the banning of specific shows, books, video games or whatever offends parents in NZ? Even the word banning is somewhat unclear; while controversial novels can be "banned" in the United States--and plenty of them are--people are still able to access and read such books.

Your main source of alarm seems to be a news show. The media absolutely loves the whole "[insert form of entertainment here] makes killers out of children" shtick. Simply because they ran a feature on violent cartoons doesn't mean the actual government will get involved. Has NZ's current administration taken action against video games, anime, or whatnot in the past? Have they offered any official indication that they're seriously considering banning certain cartoons? What exactly would a ban constitute, anyway? I'd still appreciate more clarification.

Anyone who's offended by densuke's remarks should just check out a few of wrist cutter's posts. ;)

~Dagger~

[Heero Darkangel]

OFF THE SUBJECT: First of all Thanks to all those who gave their opinions, at least i know now that I'm not the only one who thinks that Banning cartoons and animes is wrong just wish that they weren't thinking of doing it in NZ, just remember i'm not looking for solutions because what ever the government do there's nothing i can do to stop it...But a huge thank you anyway!!!!

Ok to ease the mind of Dagger IX1...Let me see where do i start...Sailor Moon was cut from NZ half way through the second season of it...the last episode was when Sailor moon and Darien split up because Darien kept having these out of it dreams of sailor moon and he thought it was because of him [spoiler]why she died[/spoiler]

....um...Voltron was also taken away my parents never saw the ending....

Power rangers were totally banned because it was too violent (and thats where those two teens came in to it when they tried to copy Power rangers and got hurt and they're using that as an example to ban VIOLENT cartoons)....um....

Dungeons and Dragons were also cut, the last episode My parents saw was when one of the guys were disappearing....

and some others but i can't remember the names of them (I only know this because my parents use to watch these cartoons so some you may not have heard of) so they have banned alot of cartoons in NZ,

the only way you can watch animes over here is if you have sky, which is actually ok because some kids don't get to watch them anyway because some families don't have sky but you see we don't have sky because of my Grandparents are anti towards cartoons.

So the only cartoons we can watch are the ones on normal television (but i still don't get to see them much) and it's those cartoons they're THINKING of banning...like Dragon Ball Z, Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon...etc...Look although I'm not as lucky as some to be able to watch cartoons much as how i want to but I like them anyway.

Gundam wing was the first real cartoon that i was able to see in my whole life even though i only saw a few episodes when we use to have sky but my grandmother put a stop to that. Some of the characters people play on here have never been shown in NZ due to the violency.

I mean the only way to understand who the characters are that the people play is by getting sky but some of us don't have sky and what actually gets me is that there are hardly any violent cartoons on normal TV as it is and yet they're not all that violent because they've edited them. Now does that help? or do you need more info? by the way i haven't heard much about it only that they were still thinking about it. but i hope they drop the case.

OFF THE SUBJECT:I've always said that people are entitled to their opinions but Densuke don't come here just to shoot bullets in other peoples posts, it aint called for and definately NOT WELCOMED.

[COLOR=#503F86][SIZE=1][b]Added [spoiler] tags. -Solo[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b]

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='Dagger IX1']Anyone who's offended by densuke's remarks should just check out a few of wrist cutter's posts. ;)[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]That's as well as may be, but it's not a terrific example to set, heh.[/COLOR]
[quote name='Heero Darkangel']OFF THE SUBJECT:I've always said that people are entitled to their opinions but Densuke don't come here just to shoot bullets in other peoples posts, it aint called for and definately NOT WELCOMED.[/quote][color=#503f86]Okay, l[/color][color=#503f86]et's end this part of the discussion now. Regardless of whether other member's posts are offensive or not, it's still not something that's supported by OtakuBoards Rules. I have given densuke a note which I presume he'll take notice of and I hope that'll be the end of it.

Biting back at members who break rules is also against the rules. If you see something you object to, either ignore it, respond to it in a [i]sensible[/i] manner or report it to a Moderator. If there's any more of this I'll close the thread. The Otaku Lounge has enough trouble with debates already- I (and everyone else, I'm sure) wouldn't be pleased to see it spread over here.

The End.

Now that that's settled:

If a show was cut mid-season, it might not mean that it was banned completely. In the UK, the second half of Reboot's third season was cut because I think it got too violent and dark for the censors to permit. They have the biggest say over cuts when a station's bought the rights to broadcast a show. Beast Wars was heavily edited too- even some incredibly mild references and jokes were completely cut. But this was a few years ago, when people weren't used to more sophisticated kids' shows.

But even then, they might only have bought the broadcast rights to part of the season and decided not to renew it due to bad ratings.

But, if they did actually ban Power Rangers, it stands to reason that they might have a tight grip on others too. It surprises me that they would though, what with NZ being so close to Australia, which has more anime DVDs than the UK could even dream of.[/color]

[James]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]
Your main source of alarm seems to be a news show. The media absolutely loves the whole "[insert form of entertainment here] makes killers out of children" shtick. Simply because they ran a feature on violent cartoons doesn't mean the actual government will get involved. Has NZ's current administration taken action against video games, anime, or whatnot in the past? Have they offered any official indication that they're seriously considering banning certain cartoons? What exactly would a ban constitute, anyway? I'd still appreciate more clarification.

[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]New Zealand does have a history of banning certain materials (including video games). Australia is the same way, although it's kind of odd that both countries ban different things. lol

Having said that, the problem can and is overstated at times. In the case of Australia (just for a moment), people get this idea that because maybe one game is banned within five years, that Australia is some police state or something. The truth is, Australia is actually more liberal with its media content laws than the United States. I'd wager that New Zealand is similar.

However, there are some areas where inappropriate laws exist. To be more clear and to give you an example, in Australia, we have no R-rating for video games. This means that if a game [i]deserves [/i]an R-rating, it will either be modified to suit a lower rating (M15+), or it will be banned outright, because it doesn't fit within OFCL classifications.

I would say that New Zealand is similar, at least in the sense that their classification systems aren't always capable of dealing with certain types of media.

Granted, banning something like Yu-Gi-Oh (which is basically a children's cartoon) on the grounds that it is "violent" is utterly absurd. In that case, we might as well ban X-Men and Superman as well.

In my estimation, there are two important distinctions to make here.

1) A show being "cut" is different from a show being "banned". Shows are cut for many different reasons -- not necessarily because someone wakes up one day and decides that they are violent or inappropriate. It could simply be that the audience in New Zealand isn't large enough to justify some series. I would say that this probably contributes to some series being relatively limited in terms of accessibility.

2) As you correctly pointed out, Dagger, this whole issue was raised because of some morning TV show/news program. It seems to me like this is simply a discussion that is taking place right now. Although it's worthy of discussion, it might be inappropriate to automatically assume that this [i]will [/i]happen.

So yeah. That's my four cents, or something.[/color]

[Heero Darkangel]

OFF TOPIC: Yes you are right about Densuke...sorry and sorry again if i wasn't meant to post again.

Anyway...Alot of the cartoons have a good rating over here, and yes they do get cut when they have too much violence in them...which is really unfair...and Australia and NZ may be close but their ways are very different to ours and i wish we could have alot of animes etc...over here as they do but we don't, I've only found one shop over here so far that does sell animes but it's only a selected range, I went in to ask if they have anything on gundam wing and they said they don't sell it because their suppliers don't have them and can't get them.

[James]

[color=#707875]I understand that Australia and New Zealand are not the same, but I think that some similarities can be drawn on this issue.

I think you'll find that in many cases, New Zealand gets ignored simply because it can't support a vibrant anime industry.

I mean, even in the United States - a country with a huge population - there are some products that just aren't considered, because the potential market is just too small. Anime is a niche product, there's no question about that.

In Australia, we have access to a wide array of anime and I think there are a few reasons for that. In Melbourne especially, there are multitudes of anime stores. There's one store that comes to mind (Minotaur, in the inner city, if you're ever visiting), which contains [i]wall upon wall [/i]of anime DVDs.

However, our population is a lot smaller than the United States. So the only way that many of these distribution centers survive (and choose to import/produce so much material) must be because the actual market (per capita) is larger.

I'm getting off track a bit there though. There's one overriding point that I want to drive home.

Australia has a population of just over 20 million nationally. Melbourne's population is about 3.2 million or something.

New Zealand's entire national population is about the same as Melbourne. Given that situation, you can't really expect that there is an enormous anime industry in the country. There just isn't the population to support it.

I would say that many companies might be cutting programs not because of ratings issues or violence concerns, but because they aren't getting enough of a return on their investment.

I'm not saying that this is definitely the case, but I think it's a major consideration in this overall discussion. In other countries, some distributors possibly feel that they can take more of a risk, because there is a larger base of people to draw from; a larger market.

It's something to consider.[/color]

[densuke]

I apologize to all concerned for my second post in this thread. I said enough the first time and went too far the second time.

[Dagger]

All's well that ends well.

Thanks for responding, James. ^_^ Now, by "cut" I assume you mean edited for television. When a cartoon or video game is banned, does that mean banned from TV and possibly brick-and-mortar stores, or banned from the country altogether? Would importing the show in question (from, say, America or the United Kingdom) be illegal?

This issue has piqued my curiousity. So have your comments about the size of the anime market in Australia--I was vaguely aware that R4 anime products tend to be of rather high quality, but didn't know much about how well they sold. In the US, manga is pretty much the fastest-growing form of popular entertainment currently in existence. Anime, however, has remained fairly obscure.

~Dagger~

[DragonBlood]

I haven't read everything, so this might have already come up, but the way I see it,
You ban weapons, black market sells more weapons, you ban certain music, black market sells more of that music, you ban Cartoons and anime, black market starts selling cartoons and anime. Thats how the world works, if you can't have it legaly, some one will sell it to you against the law. Plus with the internet it is ten times as easy to get contraband things. You will always be able to get the stuff, so there is no point in banning it, besides, cartoons and anime don't cause people to go crazy and kill people, (most of the time).

[James]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]

Thanks for responding, James. ^_^ Now, by "cut" I assume you mean edited for television. When a cartoon or video game is banned, does that mean banned from TV and possibly brick-and-mortar stores, or banned from the country altogether? Would importing the show in question (from, say, America or the United Kingdom) be illegal?

[/QUOTE]
[color=#707875]When I say "cut", I mean that an anime is "killed off" or removed from the air. I might have missed the boat on what was being said originally, but I thought that this is what had been mentioned.

So I think that may help to clarify some of the things I said earlier. Heh

In terms of banning, generally speaking this means that the product is banned from the country entirely. If you import it...I'm not certain if that is legal or not.

To my knowledge, if something is banned, this means that it cannot be classified under the ratings systems (ie: it's too violent/sexual/etc to carry even an R-rating).

In this case, businesses are not allowed to sell the unclassified product in the country. But I'm sure you probably can privately import it. I'm really not certain about that though.[/color]

[natetron46]

Do you mean privately imported to be sold? Isnt that illegal? Or do you mean just pick up a copy yourself and bring it back, I would think it would be difficult to find someone who imported it and will sell it.

[Guest Songo]

[COLOR=Magenta][FONT=Comic Sans MS]yes, IT is wrong if they ban them, for cartoons have nothing to do what goes on in our minds, if it did we would be trying to throw pokeballs and such, cant they see that, its very stupid[/FONT][/COLOR]

[natetron46]

Yeah, I think its pretty obvious that there isnt much influence by anime on our actual lives, Im not running around pulling karate moves and such on people like ghost in shell or something. If there is any effect of anime on our minds, it is miniscule and no larger than anything else we watch. I could argue that watching Queer Eye for The Straight Guy makes kids turn gay, its the same kind of thing.

[Dagger]

[quote name='natetron46']Do you mean privately imported to be sold?[/quote]

Nah, for personal use. As I understand it, quite a few North American fans buy R2 Japanese DVDs, and there's also a contingent of European anime lovers who prefer to order R1 DVDs rather than wait, possibly indefinitely, for a series to be licensed in their region. The legality of this is somewhat murky--I don't think Japanese citizens are allowed to import North American DVDs (which are almost always significantly cheaper than the corresponding Japanese products).

~Dagger~

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]It's not against the law to privately import stuff into the UK- it's against the law for street shops to sell products that haven't been given a classification (e.g. PG, U, 18+) by the BBFC, which is the British Board of Film Classification. There are few UK internet anime stores that sell region 1 DVDs, but I've never seen them being sold on the street. I think CDs are different- I've seen those about the place.

I often order DVDs from other regions. My RahXephon Volume 7 was a Region 4 and Outlaw Star, Spirited Away, Nadesico and Bubblegum Crisis are all Region 1 too.[/COLOR]

[natetron46]

Oh, ok thanks for clearing it up. Is there any hope of these animes getting classified by the BBFC? Im sure our friends in the UK would greatly appreciate it. :) Also, you said it was illegal for street shops to sell that imported anime. Im going to assume that the same rules apply for a person who plans on selling imported anime to his friends.
Thanks

[Guest ouhokan]

[QUOTE]It's a case of scapegoating- people try to find something to blame their problems on so they don't have to take responsibility for it. But if parents sat down with their children and took proper care of them like they're supposed to, children wouldn't be violent in the first place, regardless of the programmes they watch.

The exact same thoughts were brought forward in the UK when Pokemon first arrived. They'll get used to it- I seriously doubt they'd put a bn on it, especially when other programmes are far more violent.

In the UK, TV soaps are watched by thousands more kids than animes are, and the violence in those is far more realistic- I think they're more likely to cause violent behaviour than anything else. But then, there isn't a huge amount of evidence to show that TV programmes alone cause such behaviours anyway. You'd have to have a certain kind of violent predisposition to consider things like that in the first place.
[/QUOTE]
i aggree i mean its not like someone is gonna go out after watching pokemon and send out a charizard and kill someone!

[color=navy]Hey there, ouhokan. ^_^ Please watch your post quality--generally speaking, a quote should not totally dwarf your response. Capital letters are also rather nice. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or one of the other moderators.

~Dagger~[/color]

[Guest Garnett Lenoia]

[COLOR=DarkRed][FONT=Century Gothic]I am deeply sorry if this has been mentioned before.

I had read something in an american newspaper saying the graphic novels called "Shounen Jump" were encouraging children to smoke.

A parent had taken a battle in a chapter of "Yu Yu Hakusho" out of context when a fighter used a cigarette to figure out how his opponent was moving in a dark room. The outraged mother believe that it was telling children to smoke so you would have special powers when infact that was not the case.

There is a lot of violence out in the world. It is repulsive to sit down and watch the news that has nothing on but death and killing. Cartoon violence should be kept to a minimum but it should be the parents who are watching what the child entertains themselves with.

It would not be fair to more mature people who understand the difference of right and wrong if shows were taken off because of some parents complaning.

I do not believe in any sort of censorship, the parents should care and know enough to watch the child. Things should also not be taken out of context.

I notice many people have a bigger problem with animated violence rather then live action violence. For example my father sat and watched "Terminator". Which contains mass amounts of senceless violence, but when I turned on the TV to sit and watch "Gundam Wing" he was repulsed by the animated violence.

In conclusion, Nothing should be taken out of context, do your research before you open your mouth and parents should care more about their children. Hopefully the anime(s) in questions will not be taken off air because of this incident.[/FONT][/COLOR]