Gaming Super Smash Bros. Melee

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='Shinmaru']Okay, guys, let's get back on topic here. Posts should only relate to Super Smash Bros. Melee, if you have other things to discuss, then take it to PM.[/quote]

??? Maybe you didn't read them, but every single one of the last few posts was Smash Bros. Melee-related. This isn't Smashboards, so we don't have separate threads dedicated to every single little thing concerning the game (one on upcoming tourneys, one on strategy, one on what sorts of players are out there, etc.) so we make due with just this one and simply discuss everything SSB-related here. If you want us to "get back on topic" then you're gonna have to tell us just what that topic really is...

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows of any very very competitive Bowser players out there. I heard that Ken Marth got beaten by Captain Jack's Bowser, but that's a sort of extreme case. If Captain Jack is the only one who can handle Bowser like that, then he's not worth working on really. But if there's more than just one "Bowser success story" then I was thinking maybe I could give the gigantic Koopa another chance. So, does anyone here play a really mean Bowser, or know of someone who does?

If you do, what kind of strategies do you use? Would you say Bowser's Forward B is his most useful move? And just how important is it to be able to do the Bowser Train (forward smash during his wd)? I'm not sure I can pull off the backwards one in battle, heh.

[Shinmaru]

I was mostly referring to...

[quote name='AnujSuper9']Yeah, I totally ignored it...it's too much to read.[/quote]

and

[quote=AnujSuper9]I have a bunch of Link pictures I can give you. And yeah, it's next Saturday.

I think it's gonna be pretty cool, so it sucks that you'll miss it.[/quote]

He could have easily told you over PM that he had Link pictures to give to you, and about the competition, as well. I'm not trying to be a dick here, just saying that he didn't have to make those posts.

Anyway, I haven't heard about any really good Bowser players, myself. I'll admit that I'm pretty sorry with Bowser, and I'd probably get thumped pretty well by anyone who's at least decent at Smash Bros. I guess he's just not my type of fighter, heh.

[S9per]

First of all, I couldn't have just as easily told him, because hitting reply here is much much easier than PMing him. Secondly, who is it hurting by me replying to the subject matter brought up in the thread, in the thread itself. The pictures of Link I was talking about, and the tournament I was talking about, and how it was going to be awesome, were all relating to Smash Bros. Melee. And the "And yeah, it's next Saturday." You don't think that has enough relevance to Smash Bros. to be brought up here?

But I will keep that in mind these "annoyances" that you have here and try not to spark them again. I understand what you're trying to do here, and I will try not to let anything like this happen again, but we were talking about Smash Bros., we were talking about the stuff that happened here in this thread. If that doesn't have enough relevance, then that is stupid. It's not like I started talking about what I ate for dinner or anything, and that it got really drawn out...
You know, you could've just as easily not said anything here and probably avoided this...this has probably caused more irrelevant to Smash drabble than anything to come before...

And as for Bowser players. There are no power Bowser players. There are only people that are so good at the game, that they can do really well with Bowser. Bowser is one of the only characters that can be said for...the only other people that might be able to classify that way is probably....Game & Watch, Young Link (maybe), Zelda (maybe), and that's about it...

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Bah, let's not get bogged down with who is right and wrong - that's just making the thread deviate even more from the subject matter. I say, "Listen to the mod and move on."

Yeah, I have to say, the entire thread reeks of useless arguing. So, with that thought, I pose the following question: [i]do you think SSB:M can be considered a competitive fighter [B]on par[/B] with games such as Soul Caliber 2 and Virtua Fighter 4, which are games that were developed for competitive play and not primarily for party play?[/i][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='AzureWolf] [i]do you think SSB:M can be considered a competitive fighter [B]on par[/B'] with games such as Soul Caliber 2 and Virtua Fighter 4, which are games that were developed for competitive play and not primarily for party play?[/i[/quote]
Actually AzureWolf, based on everything I know about the "world of SSB:M" and how large the tournament scene really is, I'd say it's 10000 times the competitive game that SC2 and VF4 are. SC2 and VF4 are not even a tenth as deep, and I'm willing to bet you DON'T have the same people dominating the world championships every time like you do in Smash. Smash, despite its "non-pure-fighter" design, is much BETTER for competitive play than SC2/VF4/DOA/MK/any Capcom title. The only other fighter I'd even consider worthy of hosting a tournament for is Killer Instinct (arcade).

While SSB:M is by far the best party game of any of the "fighting" games out there, it works equally well as a competitive tournament game.

[S9per]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Bah, let's not get bogged down with who is right and wrong - that's just making the thread deviate even more from the subject matter. I say, "Listen to the mod and move on."

Yeah, I have to say, the entire thread reeks of useless arguing. So, with that thought, I pose the following question: [i]do you think SSB:M can be considered a competitive fighter [B]on par[/B] with games such as Soul Caliber 2 and Virtua Fighter 4, which are games that were developed for competitive play and not primarily for party play?[/i][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

On par with? Yeah right, SSBM beats the brains out of those games. Smash is way more designed as a party game. For one, with elements that completely keep the game random, such as weird stages and items, but with still the ability to turn those off. It can be played 2 to 4 player, which allows for much more fun. Not to mention that the following for games like Smash is way more than games like SC and Tekken and Virtua Fighter.

[Guest Ice Rabbit]

ScirosDarkblade knows his stuff about SSBM. I would advise you listen to him.

I use [b]Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Zelda/Sheik, Fox, Marth, Falco[/b]. Link, Young Link, Kirby, Mewtwo, Pichu (ones in bold are ones I use seriously). I have over 70,000 feet total in Homerun Contest (HRC).

[S9per]

x

Edited October 22, 2016 by S9per

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[QUOTE=Ice Rabbit]ScirosDarkblade knows his stuff about SSBM. I would advise you listen to him.
I use [b]Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Zelda/Sheik, Fox, Marth, Falco[/b]. Link, Young Link, Kirby, Mewtwo, Pichu (ones in bold are ones I use seriously). I have over 70,000 feet total in Homerun Contest (HRC).[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Yeah, Anuj and I are the biggest Smashers on OB, it seems, besides you I guess since your HRC record is rather impressive. I never ever play HRC, heh. Or target test or anything, although I'd love to try and match that 3.5-second (or was it less, Anuj?) target test with Link.

I pretty much only use Link, and occasionally THE Captain, as well as Boozar and Roy. Roy because everyone else uses Marth, and because I was inspired by Masashi, though I'll never get that good. I can't do the sword dance combo move well enough during an actual fight. I end up tapping buttons too quickly, heh. I'm too used to tapping buttons like a maniac when playing as Link, I think.

Anyway, yeah, like Anuj asked, do you play competitively?

[S9per]

x

Edited October 22, 2016 by S9per

[Desbreko]

[QUOTE=AnujSuper9]Oh wow. :smirk:

My message is apparently too short too short too short too short too short too short, so I have to add all this.[/QUOTE]
[color=#4B0082]If the board is telling you your post is too short, you shouldn't be posting it in the first place, and adding a bunch of babble to get around the restriction doesn't make it okay. We have a rule here about single word posts, and the same principle applies to other very short posts that have nothing worthwhile to say.

Anyway, I've never really bothered putting much time into the mini-game type stuff in SSBM past what was required to unlock everything. Really, I hardly ever play single player mode at all anymore; I just play vs. mode against four level 9 CPUs. (Not have other people to play against sucks. Fighting human opponents is so much more fun than CPUs.) In the original SSB I had a lot of fun with Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, but I dunno. ... I just don't find the mini-games in SSBM all that fun anymore. I suppose the Event Matches were pretty fun to go through, but after beating them once I really had no desire to play through them again.

But after picking the game up yet again out of boredom with FF Tactics, I've discovered a new love for the Battlefield arena. The place is so small that I have to constantly be dodging and fending off attacks -- especially when there's a Fox or Falco CPU player in the mix -- but there's also the three platforms to provide a good amount of mid-air fighting, and it's a lot of fun. Really tests my reflexes and provides better practice for fighting multiple opponents all at once in close quarters, which is what I really love about SSBM. I've always found one-on-one matches to be kind of boring compared to big, four player free-for-alls.[/color]

[Kwany Kon]

This game is so long it took me 2 years to have everything in the entire game.
My best character is Marth. I use him with grace and speed.
Every person I play against using Marth says I use him with a weird style.
They always say this to me after I smash them 123 kills to 3 kills.
I still haven't been beat with Marth for the past 300 games.
Every person I have beat won't play with me because I keep beating them with Marth. I tell them i'll use Roy instead...
They still lose to me :cool: .
This game can be difficult to play even if your control can't go down no more.
It is really hard to beat Event 51 with Jigglypuff.
They should make a sequal to it having at least 50 different characters.
[SIZE=2]It would rule to the extreme![/SIZE]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[B][SIZE=4][CENTER][FONT=Arial][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]Link vs Young Link[/COLOR][/FONT][/CENTER][/SIZE][/B]
Which do you prefer?

After having played a bit as Young Link recently, I can see that he definitely has a few advantages over his older version (and more than a few disadvantages...). For instance, Y Link's running A attack knocks the opponent away rather than up, which is a huge deal, as the running A is a perfect follow-up to a flying arrow/boomerang the opponent blocks or dodges (or gets hit with). I use the running A with big Link all the time, and if it knocked people away the way Y Link's does, I'd be... 1.3 times as strong, heh.

Y Link's boomerang can also be directed much easier, and that matters in very small, cramped stages like Battlefield. The fact that Y Link can throw it at almost any angle (allowing to easily follow up with an up-aerial) means a lot.

Of course Y Link's bombs are stronger and his arrows are faster. And he himself is faster overall, and that matters a lot, especially against characters like the Mario Bros. Those guys are hazardous for big Link because he simply isn't fast enough to keep the pressure on them as easily as Y Link can. But that was clear to everyone to begin with; no playing as Y Link necessary.

I was concerned about Y Link's ability to follow-up well to a down-throw, because big Link had an *obvious* up-B to use, which sends the opponent at high percentage. Y Link's up-B doesn't send; it sucks in. So it's a lousy follow-up if you want your opponent to die. However, Y Link's down-smash is a great substitute. It's a very fast move (faster than big Link's I believe) and can actually be used in other combos, although it's best following the down-throw.

However, Y Link has a large number of significan disadvantages. For one, he has nowhere near the range that big Link does, [i]especially[/i] with his hookshot. Against characters like Marth, who is outranged almost exclusively by big Link's hookshot (and Samus's grapple beam, and of course by projectiles), this is a serious disadvantage. It also matters in that Link uses his hookshot to get back onto the stage frequently, and Y Link can't do it nearly as often.

Then there's the fact that Y Link is generally weaker when it comes to damage dealt. Also, his up-B (which is big Link's most important move) is way less useful due to the fact that it doesn't send opponents (unless you spike them). And his arrows and boomerang don't have nearly the range that big Link's do.

In the end, Y Link might (I haven't used him enough to decide this yet) have an easier time against some characters than big Link does (Marios, maybe Falcon, maybe some others... I don't know for sure). And big Link for sure has an easier time against some characters (Marth, etc.). Because really good players can squeeze enough speed out of Link to make him almost as fast as Y Link, big Link is probably stronger overall. Though because they do play slightly differently, if you rock with both you might almost want to counterpick and select one based on your opponent's character.

[Hylian]

Ok. I have come to enlighten everyone here about ssbm. I only read the first few pages..but from what I can tell almost no one here knows anything about the game. I see an outdated tier list, horrible information and general newbie mentalitys.

Let me start off. SSBM is the most played fighting game tournaments wise. There are more tournaments for this game across the world then any other fighting game including street fighter tekken MvC2 and other competative fighting games. SSBM has one of the most intricate and uniqe physics engines and it has extreme depth to the gameplay.

I myself am a very good player. I go to tournaments frequently and my skill level is that of a semi-pro. Those who compare skill level with computers..are usually laughed at. Computers are so easily manipulated that they show nothing of skill what-so-ever. I can play 3 lvl 9 computers with a handicap of one and theirs being 9 on a team vs me and win with 1 life vs their 4. Without getting hit. Or hitting them even. It is called AI abuse.

Here is the current tier list. this is from my memory so I am going to get a few places wrong but the first 16 or so are 100% correct.

Top tier
1.Fox
2.Falco

High tier
3.Shiek
4.Marth
5.Peach
6.Ice Climbers

Middle tier
7.Captain Falcon
8.Samus
9.Doctor Mario
10.Jigglypuff
11.Ganondorf
12.Mario

Low Tier
13.Link
14.Luigi
15.Roy
16.Young Link
17.Zelda
18.Donkey Kong
19.Pikachu
20.Yoshi
21.Ness
22.Game & Watch
23.Bowser
24.Kirby

Bottom Tier
25.Pichu
26.Mewtwo

That is about right. Low tier may be a little mixed around but oh well.

I main Samus and Fox...I actually have one of the best Samus's in Texas. And I pretty much know everything about this game.

Here are some helpful sites for information:
[url]www.smashboards.com[/url]
[url]www.gamefaqs.com[/url]

Mainly smashboards.

I wanted to make my own topic with all of this information but w/e lol.

If you disagree with any of my information or have questions about anything just ask.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Well, the first few pages of this thread are about three years old. It's kind of expected that things would be outdated by now.

As well, I'm a lot more knowledgeable about the game and much, much better than I was back then. From what I've seen in videos of tournament matches, I think I could probably hold my own in competitive matches now, provided I had other people to practice against. (Not having any means of transportation makes it pretty much impossible to take part in tournaments, since there are none where I live.) Marth is my primary character now and, while I still rarely get to fight real people, I can make good use of a lot of the techniques I see in videos and I've come up with a few tricks of my own as well. I've got the technical side of things down pretty well but there's no replacement for real experience. :animesigh[/color]

[TheResplendent]

[QUOTE=Hylian]Ok. I have come to enlighten everyone here about ssbm. I only read the first few pages..but from what I can tell almost no one here knows anything about the game. I see an outdated tier list, horrible information and general newbie mentalitys.

Let me start off. SSBM is the most played fighting game tournaments wise. There are more tournaments for this game across the world then any other fighting game including street fighter tekken MvC2 and other competative fighting games. SSBM has one of the most intricate and uniqe physics engines and it has extreme depth to the gameplay.

I myself am a very good player. I go to tournaments frequently and my skill level is that of a semi-pro. Those who compare skill level with computers..are usually laughed at. Computers are so easily manipulated that they show nothing of skill what-so-ever. I can play 3 lvl 9 computers with a handicap of one and theirs being 9 on a team vs me and win with 1 life vs their 4. Without getting hit. Or hitting them even. It is called AI abuse.

Here is the current tier list. this is from my memory so I am going to get a few places wrong but the first 16 or so are 100% correct.

Top tier
1.Fox
2.Falco

High tier
3.Shiek
4.Marth
5.Peach
6.Ice Climbers

Middle tier
7.Captain Falcon
8.Samus
9.Doctor Mario
10.Jigglypuff
11.Ganondorf
12.Mario

Low Tier
13.Link
14.Luigi
15.Roy
16.Young Link
17.Zelda
18.Donkey Kong
19.Pikachu
20.Yoshi
21.Ness
22.Game & Watch
23.Bowser
24.Kirby

Bottom Tier
25.Pichu
26.Mewtwo

That is about right. Low tier may be a little mixed around but oh well.

I main Samus and Fox...I actually have one of the best Samus's in Texas. And I pretty much know everything about this game.

Here are some helpful sites for information:
[url]www.smashboards.com[/url]
[url]www.gamefaqs.com[/url]

Mainly smashboards.

I wanted to make my own topic with all of this information but w/e lol.

If you disagree with any of my information or have questions about anything just ask.[/QUOTE]

[font=tahoma]My aren't we confident, for lack of a better word. As for your tiers, I can identify about 3 or 4 of your "lower tier" picks (as well as one member of your "bottom tier" picks) that I could knock you around with ;P. All in good fun my friend, all in good fun. But how good these characters are is essentially dependent completely on who plays them.

As for tournament play, i've been in 4, and i've won first place in 3 (I lost my very first tournament rather badly, I didn't rank in the top 5). The place it was at holds a bunch of different kinds of tournaments in New York city, mostly fighting games and sports games (those I don't touch, despite the Madden first place prizes being huge). SSBM tournaments particularly are a lot of fun to be at. Lots of screaming at each other and memorable funny moments despite who wins and who loses.

My primary character often changes, but it's a usual rotation between Roy, Jigglypuff, and Falco. Secondary characters include Bowser, Pichu, and Samus. Zelda actually used to be my favorite character to use, as of late I've fell out of using her and have pretty much been using those six characters only.

This is one of 3 games i still keep the gamecube around for though, still fun and will probably still be playing it when Brawl comes out, as I do not yet have a Wii. [/font]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]The tiers are based on tournament results, not so much on how good a character supposedly is. So of course you can do well with lower tier characters, they just aren't as popular. (Which makes winning with them all the sweeter, I find. I always love owning friends' Foxes/Falcos with my Ganondorf.) Whether that's because people generally prefer the higher tier characters or because the lower tier characters just suck can be hard to say.

Guess I forgot to mention my secondaries, but they're pretty much the same as they were earlier in the thread: Link, Samus, and Ganondorf. Roy used to be in there too, but after getting good with Marth I found it hard to switch back and forth between the two, so Roy barely sees any play now. I've tried to get into using Falco off and on but the hyper speed playstyle isn't really my thing.[/color]

[TheResplendent]

[quote name='Desbreko][color=#4B0082']The tiers are based on tournament results, not so much on how good a character supposedly is. So of course you can do well with lower tier characters, they just aren't as popular. (Which makes winning with them all the sweeter, I find)[/color][/quote]

[font=tahoma]What you wrote in parenthesis is what I as alluding to. The pride felt in using those characters better then most of the higher tier characters in the hands of other players.

As for Marth and Roy, i tend to use both...i prefer Roy most of the time because his counter, >B combos, and smash attacks are more effecient, but marth has the advantage in weak strike combos and his ^B move is a handy sideways killer if your opponent's health is high enough and if your close enough. Kind of like getting the maximum effect out of Luigi's ^B move.

As for the "hyper speed playstyle", Falco is indeed the most self-destruct prone character of my 6, lol. Typically due to overshooting an edge here and there.[/font]

[Magus]

[font=comic sans ms][color=red]Oh dear. Something being blown way out of proportion. Thought I'd never see the day where mario turns evil.

[strike]The last few posts are about to / will be deleted.[/strike] Any further bursts will be deleted and warnings will be handed out.

In the mean time. Hylian, um. Welcome, it's good to see you like this game and whatnot, but to go as far as to down grade someone because they don't play at a tourney base level... It's not called for, and we don't need it. All it does is lead to wars and crap. ~Phenom~[/color][/font]

[Hylian]

... I am not degrading him in any way. I am just telling him he has some information wrong. There are way to many misconceptions in ssbm >_>. And besides its not lile we are at each others throats...well I'm not at least..its just a friendly debate.

[Horendithas]

[COLOR=DarkRed][quote name='Hylian']... I am not degrading him in any way. I am just telling him he has some information wrong. There are way to many misconceptions in ssbm >_>. And besides its not lile we are at each others throats...well I'm not at least..its just a friendly debate.[/quote]Wrong, telling someone that their tournaments are crap or that they have zero good players is not only rude but unnecessary. And shows a definite lack of sportsmanship when it comes to playing games or any type of sport. It's easy to discuss the points between different levels of playing without looking down on other players like a snob.

It also reflects poorly on those who do play at a more advance level instead of encouraging others to want to learn more. And even then, there's nothing 'crappy' or wrong with playing with different rules or for less money.

And another thing to consider, it also falls under the rules here about not abusing members or staff since flaming others is definitely not acceptable here.[/COLOR]

[Tatsubei Yagyu]

[COLOR=Navy][FONT=Comic Sans MS]I will always hate the fact that Shiek is high/top tier, because everyone always says that that's why I choose her... T_T

I chose Shiek even before I knew of tiers, and all that "good" stuff before I really liked her in Ocarina of Time, and that I could switch into Zelda, who was never playable before in any (good lol) game. And I happen to like speedy ninja-types too, and Shiek even has senbon (the needles)!

But nooooo... :animeangr

I play as Shiek because she is "teh uber and 1337" apparently... :(

So usually, I have to use other characters just so people won't yell. Oh well...I guess it isn't fun to always win a match, anyway... ;) [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Hylian]

[QUOTE=Tatsubei Yagyu][COLOR=Navy][FONT=Comic Sans MS]I will always hate the fact that Shiek is high/top tier, because everyone always says that that's why I choose her... T_T

I chose Shiek even before I knew of tiers, and all that "good" stuff before I really liked her in Ocarina of Time, and that I could switch into Zelda, who was never playable before in any (good lol) game. And I happen to like speedy ninja-types too, and Shiek even has senbon (the needles)!

But nooooo... :animeangr

I play as Shiek because she is "teh uber and 1337" apparently... :(

So usually, I have to use other characters just so people won't yell. Oh well...I guess it isn't fun to always win a match, anyway... ;) [/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Haha yeah alot of people hate playing shiek because she is so easy to learn and so good. Fox and falco do well against her though.

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]Sheik annoys the crap out of me for exactly that reason, yeah. She can juggle people so easy it isn't even funny. I barely play on her and even I can keep people suspended in tilt-A combos without much trouble.

I understand the feeling, though. I've been criticized for switching from Link to Marth as my primary just because Marth is a high tier character. It can be annoying, but Marth fits my playstyle better, so whatever. Either ignore them or get good on a secondary so you can pwn them with someone like Jigglypuff if they complain. :p[/color]

[TheResplendent]

[FONT=Tahoma]That's why I used to love playing with Sheik, I would piss people off by juggling them so easily. Then it just lost it's appeal over the other characters I liked using, jus fell out of using her. I don't really care about tiers since I only play the game for fun, so if anyone ever complained I would jus say "Ok, so i'll beat you with another character". The best is when people don't understand how Jigglypuff can be a useful character, and then they get beat by him/her. Nowadays Marth and Falco are the only "top tier" characters I use, with Falco I admit being one of my best but it means very little really when playing with most gamers. If people are going to be nuts about who you play with and critisize you based on it then they don't got to be playing the game.

I also happen to hate Link due to personal bias because my friend's plays ONLY with Link, he has no other characters he likes and all he does with Link is his ^b spin move. He's relies only on that move and hardly even uses A attacks. Makes him easy to read obviously and I especially have fun knocking him around with Jigglypuff, but it's just annoying and redundant.[/FONT]