Gay Vs Lesbian

[naota]

[COLOR=Teal][SIZE=1]Not everyone is gay,just some people.Just because some one is gay doesn't mean they will molest you or hit on you.Not all gay's do that just some. Thats like saying if there is a gay man on the street they will rape you because the like you.That probably won't happen because they are like straight people.

[QUOTE]By your logic, women should never date men, because there are some straight men who rape women.[/QUOTE]
I don't know where I put that in there so I can't give you an answer for that sorry.

Also I believe south park because I am weird.I like to believe whats shows say sometimes.The way I see it is that the stuff that goes on in cartoons sometimes can happen in real life thats why I believe it,and the post I did I was trying to make me sound nice but I just don't know how to!

[QUOTE]I think that some of you are concluding that Lesbianism is more accepted because male's feel threatened by Gays and therefore that is the only explanation. What about the other way around? From a woman's point of view it is more acceptable to be a Gay man than it is to be a gay woman surely?
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you.In a woman's point of view of course gays are more excepted then lesbians because they are not the same gender so it is alright for them.Heck,it may seem that women are threatened by lesbians in their point of view.The only way I feel like this is because I am a male so male+male=Me thinking they are creepy
but if your a women you may think woman+woman=You thinking they're creepy

//Just to let you all know I am straight even though most of you don't care.\\
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Delirium']Sorry, this is just way weird. To have all these straight people talking about gays and lesbians as if they know everything? no offense, Siren, I actually like your posts. Very nice.[/quote]
It's not knowing everything, far from it. It's simply knowing enough to be able to spot questionable statements.

[QUOTE]Siren & Heero: Let me see? media-induced prejudice? Interesting. I, being bi, had the problem, when I first found out, of being scared of other girls touching me. Despite the fact that my mom is also bi, so I grew up with the openness, I felt sort of awkward. Its one of those natural things that happens whether you like it or not. -_-
[/QUOTE]
I think media-induced prejudice is an apt description of the majority of the public's view on homosexuality, actually.

I'm not saying gay television is bad, of course, but when there are shows like Queer Eye, which seem to imply that gays have all the fashion sense and straight guys are just slobs (I'm sure this is true in part, but it's hardly totally and completely accurate), when Jerry Springer/Sally Jessy/etc have utterly bizarre shows that feature utterly bizarre love triangles, or even just turning on the news, you see there definitely [i]is[/i] a media slant that has a strong effect on people's views of homosexuality.

Like James has said, there is a very real distinction that needs to be made in the public (mis)conception of what homosexuality is, and I think it's worthwhile to realize how the media reports it.

Hell, people in this thread have referenced South Park, lol. While South Park is certainly a very intelligent social commentary, and I cannot praise it enough, it's still an abstraction of society, and is designed for merely providing a mirror to society. It's really satire at its best, but it's still an abstraction, and shouldn't be treated as accurately representing society.

I think the media definitely plays a large role in how the public views homosexuality, which means it's a media-induced prejudice, heh.

[quote name='James][color=#707875'] Your last paragraph was perhaps the most reasonable thing you said. Gay and lesbian people are just like straight people, save for the fact that their orientation is different. But there's no difference in terms of sex drive or violence/rape, etc.[color=black][/quote]
Exactly.
[/color][/color]

[James]

[QUOTE=Deimos][COLOR=Teal][SIZE=1]

I don't know where I put that in there so I can't give you an answer for that sorry.


[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=#707875]o_O;

I quoted what you said and responded to it. That's what my comments were related to.

You said that on shows and stuff you sometimes see where a gay man has raped someone or something. Therefore, you don't want to ever get near a gay man.

So I am saying, if you apply that logic across the board, then women should never trust any men because some men rape women.

Do you see what I'm saying? If you truly follow that logic to its conclusion, you realize how silly it is.[/color]

[naota]

[SIZE=1][COLOR=Teal][QUOTE=James][color=#707875]o_O;

I quoted what you said and responded to it. That's what my comments were related to.

You said that on shows and stuff you sometimes see where a gay man has raped someone or something. Therefore, you don't want to ever get near a gay man.

So I am saying, if you apply that logic across the board, then women should never trust any men because some men rape women.

Do you see what I'm saying? If you truly follow that logic to its conclusion, you realize how silly it is.[/color][/QUOTE]

Ohh,I see what you mean.What I am trying to say is that some gay men could do that.Also to me somethings that my sister watches about gays are disgusting like [COLOR=DarkRed]Queer as folk -bum bum bum...[/COLOR][COLOR=Teal]Those shows make me think thank a man would just come up to you and just start "bobbing" away.Also Micheal Jackson makes me think things like this.Thats like saying

"Would you like to leave your kids with micheal jackson to baby sit".

"Hell no,EWW!!!!" would be my reaction because he is gay[/COLOR]
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#707875]But you're still not getting my point. You can't say that some gay men do that and then turn around and disregard [i]all[/i] gay men.

I mean, this line of thinking just makes no sense. I may not like the more violent gangsta rap, which is perhaps at the extreme end of that musical style/culture...but I don't sit there and say "I hate all rap" or, more appropriately, "I don't ever want to meet an African American". It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.[/color]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=Deimos]Ohh,I see what you mean.What I am trying to say is that some gay men could do that.Also to me somethings that my sister watches about gays are disgusting like Queer as folk -bum bum bum...Those shows make me think thank a man would just come up to you and just start "bobbing" away.Also Micheal Jackson makes me think things like this.Thats like saying

"Would you like to leave your kids with micheal jackson to baby sit".

"Hell no,EWW!!!!" would be my reaction because he is gay[/QUOTE]
This is probably the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. You wouldn't want MJ to babysit your children because he's gay? What about you wouldn't want him to babysit your children simply because [i]he dangles children out of windows[/i]?

A man being gay or not gay has [i]absolutely nothing[/i] to do with his effectiveness as a babysitter. Absolutely nothing.

What does have a significant bearing, and what should have a significant bearing on your decision is the quality of the human being who is offering to babysit your children. That should be the only criterion, not sexual orientation.

[Skye]

[color=orange][size=1][font=veranda]>.< Sorry for the assumption, doukeshi03. From most of the posts, a lot of people have said stuff like ?someone I know is gay/lesbian? so I assumed.[/color][/font][/size]

[quote name='Deimos][color=teal][font=veranda][size=1']What I am trying to say is that some gay men could do that.[/quote][/color][/font][/size][size=1][font=veranda][color=orange]

>< And most don?t. I mean, just because one person does it, I?m not about to assume everyone does it. I mean, I?m not about to walk up to some hot straight chick and kiss her. There are a lot of ?ifs? and no actualities. Often TV does not state the truth. Even reality shows get twisted half the time.

I also just thought of something. Part of the reason lesbians are more accepted is probably because? well, women usually end up in groups anyway. Its hard to explain. Sort of like when males are stressed out/angry they are convinced they don?t need help (not to anyone in specific; it?s a generalization and hormonal thing that most don?t realize.) and so they go off by themselves. Females, however, when stressed, group up. Usually. I mean, I?ve seen some who don?t, but most females feel more secure with a large group.

>.< I hope that made sense. I guess? gah. SO hard to explain this to people. V_V Being bisexual is nice. I think. >< GAH! It gives you more options. Maybe we should look at it that way. But I can?t really say anything about gays and lesbians in specific, since I?m not one.

Oh, hell. I am so confused now. @.@[/color][/font][/size]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]As response to the question of whether women find it more acceptable for men to be gay than for women to be lesbian, I'll answer that with a simple no.
As a female, I don't find it any less appropriate for a woman to sleep with other women than for a man to sleep with other men. I mean, being straight, I find boy-on-boy comic-books great fun to read, but I by no means see lesbians as a "threat" or worry that being around one will result in my being grabbed in unfair places. That would be silly.

You're forgetting about the whole "We can do it!" thing.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Gelgoog Pilot]

Ugh....I know I said a staement such as "Im alright with gays as long as they don't hit on me" I releaise its a retarded way of thinking yes, but its just the way I feel. I treat them like anyone else but if they cross a line I tend to leave or make a note of it, I don't just leave and never speak to them again I just say WHOA cool it. I've tried the whole bisexual thing, and GOD it doesn't work for me.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Gelgoog Pilot']Ugh....I know I said a staement such as "Im alright with gays as long as they don't hit on me" I releaise its a retarded way of thinking yes, but its just the way I feel. I treat them like anyone else but if they cross a line I tend to leave or make a note of it, I don't just leave and never speak to them again I just say WHOA cool it. I've tried the whole bisexual thing, and GOD it doesn't work for me.[/quote]
But you made no mention at all that you treat everyone that way, so how are we supposed to know that? Are we supposed to be psychic? lol

When someone touches you inappropriately, then you should react to that person.

[i]However[/i], that does not mean you can be suspicious of all people of that gender/race/creed/sexual orientation.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[quote name='Heero Darkangel]I have nothing against Gays (as long as they keep their fingers to themselves) and Lesbians, I have an uncle who is gay, he also as a partner, they very cool, They have alot of gay friends which I've told them that [I]if they touched me i'll break their fingers[/I']..![/quote]

Hmm... well if gay people hit on you/touch you, just make like the ladies when [i]you[/i] try to hit on them. Simply say "let's just be friends", walk away, and give them a fake phone number.

I've got to agree with James on this issue. The prejudice against homosexuals is quite unbased... and severely excessive. I'm not going to defend any sort of presumed "rights" (wrong thread anyway), but far be it for me to hold their sexual orientation against them.

Funny story, I walked into a gay bar... unbeknownst to myself at the time, and was hit on several times before I realized there were no women around... I'm usually not that un-observant, but I didn't really get grossed out or pissed off. Hey, I may not agree with their lifestyle, but that doesn't mean I'm going to hate them for it.

This is coming from a pretty solid anti-homosexual-marriage guy, too.

[eleanor]

[color=firebrick]

1) Gay men aren't going to hunt you down and rape you.

2) So stop believing Law and Order and South Park. If you do, you're just lame.

3) There are probably more rapists that are straight men.

4) And women don't go around screaming at straight men not to touch them.

It's like saying it's ok if a guy hits and touches a lady in a suggestive way [and I KNOW one of you has either done it or has seen it] but if it's a gay guy all of a sudden there's a bell ring and the first thing that goes through your head is: WAY WRONG.

Whatever, that's nice, if you think it's wrong that that's just fine and dandy. It's when you start insulting gays and calling them 'disgusting' that I start to get aggravated.

And duh, many guys like lesbians because their filled with hormones and think that two women getting it on is sexy. I guess women are just here to serve, right?[/color]

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=Blue]*skims through last series of posts* Isn't this exactly what doukeshi did not want this thread to turn into? I apologize for playing mod, but there's no reason anyone should have brought up how they feel about gays and others responding about whether feeling as such is right or not (or how they themselves feel). [quote name='Siren'] Quick literature lesson...[/quote] First off, that was a poor and completely off-topic lesson - with respect with what you quoted. I find it hard to associate the late 1800s with [B]age-old[/B] times than modern day, which is what the 1800s are. If anything, you actually helped to prove my point. By being only able to provide examples of lesbians in more mordern times, you are showing that the concept is a new, emerging trend and NOT an [B]age-old[/B] one.

If age-old was not clear enough, I even provided an example of a fairly popular story written around the time of Socrates.[quote name='Siren'] AW, what you're talking about...criticizing, even, falls more along the lines of Slash FanFic amateurs.[/quote] Slash FanFic? What are you talking about? Your entire post... it seems like you read someone else's post in some other thread and tried replying here.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Falkon]

[QUOTE=doukeshi03]Okay, I admit, the title isn't really what this topic is about..well, not really. I was watching a documentary recently on the attitudes of the public and of the press towards homosexuality in 1960s Britain and it became apparent to me that the focus was much more upon gay men than on gay women. It seems that whenever we think of the term 'homosexuality' we immediatly think of men and I have come to realise that it is far more acceptable to be a gay man than it is to be a gay woman.

Even in entertainment mediums such as film and television, programmes such as 'Will & Grace' or movies like 'The Crying Game' gay men are portrayed far more often than women and with much more relaxed attitudes.

I would just like to hear other people's opinions of this. Now I don't want to turn this into a slagging match. This isn't about the merits of being gay or ethical reasoning or what have you. I am simply trying to judge the differences in public acknowledgement and acceptance of male and female homosexuality.

[size=1][I]P.S There was a note in the documentary that said Queen Victoria didn't see the need for a law to be passed against lesbians like the one passed on gays because "it [being a lesbian] simply wasn't possible." I found that quite amusing.[/I][/size][/QUOTE]
well, i will throw in my two cents. However, I doubt that anyone will read this far thru the whole thread, therefore will miss my point/post. *Sigh*

My whole thought on this gay/lesbian thing is... well, to be honest, I am really getting pissed off at the USA for trying to ban gay marriage. You see, I am not gay, but I do beelieve that if a person wants to live their life, then they should be able to. After all isnt that what america is about? Freedom to do what it is that you want?

Now, most people turn and say "well, I dont want to see this type of behavior because its wrong." ...Oh, so now its wrong???? See that frustrates me, people who think like that. So.. So lemme get this straight. It is wrong for a person to love another person of the same sex and, since you dont like it, or since you are straight, it should be illegal? ... no See.. hmm.. lost my train of thought... email.

Anyway. Gay men should be allowed to marry gay men, and lesbian women should be allowed to marry lesbian women. Simple. Its not like theyre going to bite or anything, sheesh.

[James P. Galvatron]

Alright I do not get the idea of this topic because it should be shut down for extreme stupidity and spamming with useless information.

All I have to say is most guys think two women together are hot yet are made because most lesbian women are beautiful and most girls do not like gay men like men like the women why don't ask me.

I find that lesbians are most likely to be used by the media because most people find them attractive while most people do not like gay men and sometimes show them negatively in movies or t.v. shows.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Let me just start out by saying that if you met my husband's aunt and her partner the whole 'two lesbians together is soo hot' idea would be shot right out the window. That's a really dumb stereotype.



Next on my list: Back in the 1800's un to the mid 20th century infact-homosexuality was considered a mental disorder and people were placed in institutions. Okay so we've become a bit more civilized. Instead many parents threaten to disown their children if they find out that they're gay. Slightly better than sending them to an insane asylum, but well I still find it a bit barbaric.


I've never had a problem with gay people as far as I'm concerned they're just like me only not straight. I don't get why so many straight men think that a gay man is going to hit on them. I'm not sure how that whole thing started, but just like straight women has a guy type, so do gay men (okay, I'm assuming, which is probably a bad thing for me to do, but as far as I know gay men won'ty just go over and hit on anyone) I mean think of it this way, if there was a possibility of getting beaten or even killed for coming up and talking to someone you thought was even remotely attractive would you go after every person you saw?

I think the reason that both gay and lesbian relationships are so reviled in western society is because of years of Judeo Christian faith and soem really stupid people.

That's my two cents fro the time being.[/color]

[Brasil]

[quote name='AzureWolf][color=RoyalBlue']First off, that was a poor and completely off-topic lesson - with respect with what you quoted. I find it hard to associate the late 1800s with age-old times than modern day, which is what the 1800s are. If anything, you actually helped to prove my point. By being only able to provide examples of lesbians in more mordern times, you are showing that the concept is a new, emerging trend and NOT an age-old one.[/color][/quote] Firstly, the 1800s are nowhere near modern day, socially, politically, or otherwise. In fact, they are more Dark Ages than anything else. Chronologically, obviously, they are not, but socially and politically, they are.

In the 1800s, you were seeing an intense and all-encompassing desire to smother individual thought, to create an oppressive social climate that de-emphasized the individual.

You will find that apart from the Patriot Act, individual freedoms and expressions of opinion are relatively open today, and dialoge is encouraged by the majority.

This, modern day, is incredibly different from Victorian England, an era that saw the creation/continuation of a "stuffy" society.

I think those two ages are far more different than you may realize, AW, and are certainly different enough to warrant an "age distinction."

Furthermore, I provided evidence of lesbian literature in the late 1800s (which I have established as different enough from modern day to be distinguished apart from modern day...just examine the social and political climates), which I will quote right now, just in case you missed it when you [i]skimmed[/i] the thread:

[quote=Siren] And it's not that lesbianism was ignored in literature, either. Theophile Gautier's [i]Mademoiselle de Maupin[/i] was dripping with lesbian sexuality (no pun intended). It has a woman-on-woman scene in a bath-house, I believe.

In regard to lesbianism and Victorian England, there was lesbianism, but it wasn't flaunted like male homosexuality was, which is why not many people believed it existed. But it [i]did[/i] exist.[/quote] Quite honestly, I find it incredibly naive to be placing Victorian England and the 1800s anywhere near modern day. Chronologically, yes, the 1800s are closer to modern day than Epic of Gilgamesh, but that doesn't mean a woman (or anyone, for that matter) is able to speak his or her mind on a podium in broad daylight. The Victorian era was the Dark Ages compared to the veritable plethora of freedoms modern day citizens enjoy.

[QUOTE][color=RoyalBlue]If age-old was not clear enough, I even provided an example of a fairly popular story written around the time of Socrates.[/color][/QUOTE] And you will notice that I provided The Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates Socrates by some 1500 years, and I noted how the man-man love was not based on pure homosexuality or lust, but more brotherly love and respect for the fellow man:

[quote=Siren] One could make a case that older literature praises male homosexuality if one mentions the Epic of Gilgamesh, but again, one must keep in mind that in Gilgamesh, the man-man love was not based on any sexual attraction to the male body, but more based on how women were viewed as inferior. It's an important distinction to make and understand, I think.

The only reason that Enkidu and Gilgamesh love each other is based on brotherly love, love for the fellow man...not simply for getting down and dirty with another guy. lol[/quote] Further, since we're talking about Greek literature, I'd like to call attention to Lysistrata (approx. 410 BC).

Lysistrata is a work that could be considered the female sexual anthem. It's a story about women using sex to get what they want, by any means necessary. Female sexuality was incredibly prevalent, provided you know where to look.

[quote][color=RoyalBlue]Slash FanFic? What are you talking about? Your entire post... it seems like you read someone else's post in some other thread and tried replying here.[/color][/QUOTE] AW, think about the literature that we've talked about here. They are classic works found in any literary canon, and some are written out of a pure and innocent love for men. I did mention Walt Whitman and Oscar Wilde. Their intent, [i]especially[/i] Whitman's, was to enlighten the world, and show them the beauty of different types of love.

I don't think they can be faulted for that, which is what your initial post seemed to do: blame gay literature for the lack of lesbian literature, when in all reality, that blame should be directed toward Slash FanFic, which negatively glorifies and romanticizes the gay lifestyle, causing the same negative stereotyping that Queer Eye does, lol.

If you'd like to take issue with the (seemingly) lack of lesbian literature, take issue with Slash FanFic, not authors like Walt Whitman or Oscar Wilde.

EDIT: I think we should also realize just where the word, "lesbian" is from.

[url=http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blbio_sappho.htm][u]Lesbos[/u][/url]

An island off the coast of Greece, I believe, named Lesbos. There, women lived together, sharing poetry, providing moral support, etc. It is unknown if their relationships were sexual, but it seems reasonable to say that sex was not a primary motivation for these women living together on this island.

It was female bonding, both spiritual, emotional, and perhaps physical, although this has not been proven, from what I've read.

I think just knowing the history of Lesbos should get people to realize that lesbians are not obsessed with sex, just like Whitman not being obsessed with male-male sex, although his poetry is incredibly deviant and sexual.

Gay and lesbian literature celebrated the bond between same-sex people.

AW, you wanted lesbian literature?

[url=http://www.sappho.com/poetry/index_historical.html][u]Lesbian poetry[/u][/url].

Notice that there are lesbian texts dating back to 500 BC.

[Doukeshi]

I have heard of those pieces of literature Siren, I believe they are refered to as Sapphic in relation to the famous poet who resided on Lesbos called Sappho. Therefore we can see that it hasn't only been male homosexuality that has been the focus of literature through the years.

I think what it all comes down to really is the division between the sexes. It seems that male homoseuxality has been more focused upon due to the fact that up until recently the world has been primarily male dominated.

[coconuts1977]

[QUOTE=James][color=#707875]o_O;

That's what my comments were related to.

[/color][/QUOTE]

Tsk. Tsk. Ending a sentence with a preposition. ;)


Along the lines with this thread, I am really pissed off at how many of you guys are so paranoid about gay men hitting on you. Don't flatter yourselves. It's pretty self-centered of you to just assume that a man, who happened to be gay, would automatically hit on you. If you were as hot as me, however, you would have reason to worry.


[EDIT]: Suppose an unattractive woman hits on me- I would, of course, decline her advances, while at the same time, feel flattered that she found me attractive. The same scenario would go for gay guys.

[Falkon]

[QUOTE=Inuyasha7271]Alright I do not get the idea of this topic because it should be shut down for extreme stupidity and spamming with useless information.

All I have to say is most guys think two women together are hot yet are made because most lesbian women are beautiful and most girls do not like gay men like men like the women why don't ask me.

I find that lesbians are most likely to be used by the media because most people find them attractive while most people do not like gay men and sometimes show them negatively in movies or t.v. shows.[/QUOTE]

You know... Even I find this offensive. (not like Im gay or anything)
First off: Most girls dont "not like gay guys". Thats a stereotype. Almost all of my girl-friends are OK with gay gays, as am I.

Secondly, By saying this topic is spamming and that its stupid, to me, thats just as bad as saying you hate someone because theyre gay. Youre implying that, by talking about how people feel, this thread is useless?! Thats bogus. You see, threads like this give people a place to talk about their thoughts and feelings, and for you to come in and just blatently say that its a "stupid topic" is not cool.

Ok, enough of my whining ;)

[eleanor]

[i]All I have to say is most guys think two women together are hot yet are made because most lesbian women are beautiful and most girls do not like gay men like men like the women why don't ask me.[/i]

[color=firebrick] Wow, that was the lamest thing I've read in...well, I've heard a lot of lame things in this thread. It's a pity that you believe tv shows and movies that show pretty lesbians making out. I guess one day you'll be shocked and have a heart attack when you find out the truth. Gee. Oh well.

And all I have to say is that a lot of women think two gay guys are hot together. Sorry if I'm making you gag.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Inuyasha7271]because most lesbian women are beautiful

I find that lesbians are most likely to be used by the media because most people find them attractive while most people do not like gay men and sometimes show them negatively in movies or t.v. shows.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]I point and laugh in your general direction. Like I said in my first post, if someone met my husband's aunt and her partner they'd lose the whole idea of two lesbians together being so hot very quickly. I mean, I love the woman like she's one of my aunts (not through marriage) but she's a heavy not stereotypical looking lesbian woman.

And for the record, I love gay men. I don't know why since it doesn't do much for my sex life, but as far as discussing everything else the ones I know remind me of my female friends just with out the female parts.

Also as for showing gay men nagatively in the media-the last time I checked Will and Grace and Queer Eye for the Straight Guy were still showing gay people in a positive light. Unless I missed the Episode of Will and Grace where Will and Jack cosplay as Kunzite and ZOisite and kill people.[/color]

[Brasil]

Well, CHW, let me ask you then, if Queer Eye and Will and Grace don't negatively stereotype gay men, do all gay men act effeminately, dress well, and have a high-pitched voice/lisp?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Siren']Well, CHW, let me ask you then, if Queer Eye and Will and Grace don't negatively stereotype gay men, do all gay men act effeminately, dress well, and have a high-pitched voice/lisp?[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]I wouldn't know, I haven't met every gay man in the world, have you?

I didn't mean that [i]all[/i] gay men act a certain way or that all gay women act a certain way. I was just replying in the way I thought was implied. I guess that you read his post one way and I read it another. You could probably say that the media portrays all fat people negatively as well, since there either [i]aren't[/i] any or all fat people are either: lazy, rude or happy and they hardly ever have actual relationships. Or in Without a paddle: Stupid backwoods rednecks who grow marijuana. I think that's a bit more negative than being a well dressed gay guy.

Besides you know as well as I do that assuming that all gay men dress well, like to shop, and act effeminately is like saying that all straight men dress like slobs and sit around scratching themselves all day while drinking beer and watching football (either version).[/color]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]I wouldn't know, I haven't met every gay man in the world, have you?

I didn't mean that [i]all[/i] gay men act a certain way or that all gay women act a certain way. I was just replying in the way I thought was implied. I guess that you read his post one way and I read it another. You could probably say that the media portrays all fat people negatively as well, since there either [i]aren't[/i] any or all fat people are either: lazy, rude or happy and they hardly ever have actual relationships. Or in Without a paddle: Stupid backwoods rednecks who grow marijuana. I think that's a bit more negative than being a well dressed gay guy.

Besides you know as well as I do that assuming that all gay men dress well, like to shop, and act effeminately is like saying that all straight men dress like slobs and sit around scratching themselves all day while drinking beer and watching football (either version).[/color][/QUOTE] And thus, look at what Queer Eye shows, [i]all the time[/i]:

Straight guys that dress like slobs, who need the Fab Five to come in and rescue them from their "lousy" taste in clothing, style, fashion, apartment, etc.

If that's not negative stereotyping for both orientations, I don't know what is.

Queer Eye consistently emphasizes that straight men know absolutely nothing about how to look good, and how the gay man knows absolutely everything.

What is the social expectation of the straight man? What is the social expectation of the gay man? When the straight man deviates from that social expectation, how is he viewed by others? When the gay man deviates from that social expectation, how is he viewed by others?

For the answer to this, one simply has to turn on The Real World: Philadelphia, an MTV show that requires very little brainpower to understand. The Real World could be considered a type of microcosm of society.

There are two gay men on that show, one feminine, and one masculine, and everyone was totally shocked when the masculine gay man "came out." Why? Because throughout the media, the gay man is portrayed as the feminine gay man, like you would see on Queer Eye.

If that's not a strong enough example of negative orientation stereotyping, I'll use myself.

I dress for two reasons. To be comfortable, and to look good. I have a carefree attitude about most things in my life, and I'm much, much louder and expressive than most people around me. Just because I may not be as "butch" as the baseball team here at Rutgers, or even Theatre Tech people, should I automatically be assumed to be gay? Of course not.

But why would someone think or assume I'm gay because of that? Because of the media, lol.

The well-dressed gay man [i]is[/i] a negative stereotype, despite what you may want to think. Just because the Fab Five dress well does not mean that image is not hurtful and/or damaging to masculine gay men, because it is, because society expects all gay men to act that way, because it's what they see in the media.

Get what I'm saying?

Just because they look good does not mean they are good.