Goth.

[Oceanborn]

I remember recieving a PM lately. The content was something like that:

[quote name='let that be anonymous']i like black metal and don't believe in religion....if you are a true goth you will not believe and god and jesus and worship satan and the anti-christ....well tell me what bands you like :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: a word of advice images are deceiving hahahahaha :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:[/quote]
That was my answer... And I kinda liked it. So I decided to let it become a thread.
Anyway, any objections, thoughts to add to...
Another in-thread question -
What do you consider as gothic music?
I can remember Lacrimosa, The 69 Eyes; Bach, Mozart.

(Hereby the text. )

A true goth doesn't worship neither Jesus no Sataniel. Whether does or does not believe in gods, he doesn't have the faith to worship any because of his negation of such a feeling.

A true goth neglects everything you would mean as happines or fun. His soul may be filled with sorrow, pain, sadness; although, ideally, one doesn't care abot feelings for feelings are nothing to care for.

A true goth, in fact, doesn't care about this world at all. The world is nothing to care about for a goth for a goth is not someone to be cared of by this world.

A true goth loves Darkness. A satanist loves Evil. While that is, in fact, _the_ difference between the two, some may succesfully combine these dogmas. This doesn't make them being true goths. They still stay satanists.

[demonchild781]

hello stranger,
I thought I would inform you on a little bit of information. Goth is an extreme form of christianity. The reason they dress in black is to purge themselves of all worldy desires including color. If you think I'm making this up to be a *****, you're wrong. I've had friends that are goth or were praticing for a while. I've also done research on this topic to better understand my friends and their beliefs. So, don't make goths sound so bad please.
Sloan

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]I'm sure that nothing that Oceanborn says about goths will make them sound so bad as what the kids of society today try to portray as Goth. They think that shopping at Hot Topic and wearing all their trendy red and black clothing while listening to heavy metal is the cool thing to do to be "different" and to be "goth." It's so sickening.

Those are the ones that this should be addressed to. Whoever sent you that PM by the way, it's pretty hilarious.[/color][/size]

[Harry]

[QUOTE=demonchild781]hello stranger,
I thought I would inform you on a little bit of information. Goth is an extreme form of christianity.[/QUOTE]
Maybe 200 years ago. It's now a trend.

[Captain Iuno]

Wow Wow Wow!!!
Hit the brakes everyone!
I'm reading several misconceptions here.

1 Goths do not believe in Satan, let alone worship him. This is a very common misconception, so please delete this from your minds!

2 It is not an extreme form of christianity. Most goths do not believe in Jezus or God.

3 It is most likely that goths chose the religion of 'wicca'. This religion worships a god and a goddess and has nothing to do with Satan (or Jezus) whatsoever.

That was the religion part. On the black clothing. It is true that most (or maybe even ALL) goths have a 'I-don't-care-what-people-think-of-me' attitude. And it is also true that they listen to metal (not diving them into groups of black, death etcetera). Goths will also listen to stuff like Nightwish, Evanescence or After Forever a lot. Goths do love darkness because they're very comfortable with it.

So once again I will tell you: Goths do NOT worship Satan! And not all goths are people who don't give ***** about their lives or just want to commit suicide. Goths can be happy you know!

And if you doubt this information...you shouldn't. I am a goth and not afraid to admit it!

Thank You

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms][QUOTE]goth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gth)
n.
A style of rock music that often evokes bleak, lugubrious imagery.
A performer or follower of this style of music.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I think that should clear everything up. Goth with a capital G refers to a race of Germanic peoples, BTW.[/color][/size][/font]

[DeadSeraphim]

[COLOR=Indigo][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]I don't think its possible to have one 'right' definition of goths. Not even gothics can agree among themselves what being gothic is about...

I mean, I've not a shitload of Goths, and one thought Gothicism was about blood drinking, one thought it was about cutting, yet another was of the opinion Satanism is the way.... It's too ambiguous a term heh.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Guest lavalamp]

I'm the gothic master. I sacrifice guinea pigs to appease [b]Satan[/b]! I write all of my notes regarding the darkness and how it compels me on [url=http://store1.yimg.com/I/ivyrose-gifts_1809_5029527]these[/url].

[Maggot_Juice]

[QUOTE=Captain Iuno]Wow Wow Wow!!!
Hit the brakes everyone!
I'm reading several misconceptions here.

1 Goths do not believe in Satan, let alone worship him. This is a very common misconception, so please delete this from your minds!

2 It is not an extreme form of christianity. Most goths do not believe in Jezus or God.

3 It is most likely that goths chose the religion of 'wicca'. This religion worships a god and a goddess and has nothing to do with Satan (or Jezus) whatsoever.

That was the religion part. On the black clothing. It is true that most (or maybe even ALL) goths have a 'I-don't-care-what-people-think-of-me' attitude. And it is also true that they listen to metal (not diving them into groups of black, death etcetera). Goths will also listen to stuff like Nightwish, Evanescence or After Forever a lot. Goths do love darkness because they're very comfortable with it.

So once again I will tell you: Goths do NOT worship Satan! And not all goths are people who don't give ***** about their lives or just want to commit suicide. Goths can be happy you know!

And if you doubt this information...you shouldn't. I am a goth and not afraid to admit it!

Thank You[/QUOTE]
Yeah I believe you're right, I know a lot of goths that don't believe in god nor satan,but I don't know about them listening to Evanescence and etc....

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='DeathBug][font=Comic Sans MS][size=1][color=#4b0082']Well, I think that should clear everything up. Goth with a capital G refers to a race of Germanic peoples, BTW.[/quote][/color][/size][/font]
[COLOR=#503F86] I was going to say that, damn you! ^_~

Anyway, I buy a lot of things which you'd associate with Goths: Dragon posters, New Rock boots, black clothes, things with Tribal/Gothic designs on them, jewelry... and I tend to like rock music over other types of popular stuff (most of my collection is comprised of film soundtracks). I even have spiked hair. If that was how I described myself, people would instantly think I'm a 'Goth'. But I'm not, because I don't consider myself to be one.

I've always said that trying to generalise groups of people is a stupid thing to do. Yeah, you can do it by what clothes people wear, but the values and other various aspects of those people mean that not every one of them is the same thing, so trying to define what a 'True Goth' is is pointless. You'd have Satanic 'goths', Wiccan 'goths' and 'goths' that really don't give a damn about the music or religion and just like the clothes. Does that mean that if you aren't a Wiccan or don't like heavy rock then you aren't a Goth?

I think people should be allowed to be whatever they want to consider themselves to be and not worry about how other people label them.[/COLOR]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I don't know about goths, but I'm a True [i]Geek[/i]. I sacrifice guinea pigs and everything. : O

[Spoiler]See how silly you're all being?[/Spoiler][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Juu]

[quote name='Queen Asuka][color=hotpink][size=1]They think that shopping at Hot Topic and wearing all their trendy red and black clothing while listening to heavy metal is the cool thing to do to be "different" and to be "goth."[/color'][/size][/quote]

[size=1][color=deeppink]Hot Topic deserves to die. -____-

So many people at school shop there, claiming to be 'different' but it's not really 'different' when 1/3 of the school owns the very same shirt that says 'I'm weird'. Not to mention, they talk about how much they love heavy metal when they haven't even heard a single song from the band on their T-shirt. Also, they keep bashing 'preps' when honestly, I don't see anyone who would admit to liking Britney Spears anymore, because it seems almost as if 'punk'/'goth' is the new 'pop'.

SososoSO annoying, though. "Like, dude, I slit my wrist 92313098 times today. My life sucks."

But rather than just the whole 'trend' thing, what bothers me more is how people seem to think 'find yourself' means to 'be weird', or 'be original' means to 'wear jelly bracelets and paint your nails black'. Being yourself is about being comfortable with who you are, not relying on clothes or a certain genre of music to reflect your personality. If you like something, wear it. But it's even cooler when a person's personality is so great, it just shines past what they're wearing.[/size][/color]

[Guest MangaFreak]

[quote name='Harry']Maybe 200 years ago. It's now a trend.[/quote]
actually 200 years ago it was a barbarian tribe that liked to attack the roman empire and hold it for ransom
lol
really, look it up
but now a days it is what ocean born says it is
yes, christians have done those things and used the title but its not goth
sorry, you can look up anything and it can be wrong
we're only human
sadly, in the real world, people mistake me for a goth
i am not
i would ruin the title
i am a christian
i love the color black
i dress in goth like clothes but am not
i may act like it but i am not
only because i don't have the pure soul of a goth
my soul wants and longs to be black but instead its just a deep and dark grey
extremely close but nothing alike
i am not a goth
i hang out with true goths and i see the true defination
and understand i am not one of them
they know this too
but i am still not goth

[Harry]

[QUOTE=MangaFreak]actually 200 years ago it was a barbarian tribe that liked to attack the roman empire and hold it for ransom
lol
really, look it up
but now a days it is what ocean born says it is
yes, christians have done those things and used the title but its not goth
sorry, you can look up anything and it can be wrong
we're only human
sadly, in the real world, people mistake me for a goth
i am not
i would ruin the title
i am a christian
i love the color black
i dress in goth like clothes but am not
i may act like it but i am not
only because i don't have the pure soul of a goth
my soul wants and longs to be black but instead its just a deep and dark grey
extremely close but nothing alike
i am not a goth
i hang out with true goths and i see the true defination
and understand i am not one of them
they know this too
but i am still not goth[/QUOTE]
After reading this post I quickly ran to my history book. I thought I had learned everything wrong. But luckily, I did learn it right. The Roman Empire was not around 200 years ago, and luckily the Germanic tribe was not attacking anyone 200 years ago.

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]This whole thread sort of ties into my endless stream of criticisms when it comes to "searching for individuality".

I find the whole goth bit rather annoying. I have nothing wrong with the clothes (those don't really make a difference), but it's the attitude of, "I am a dark, mysterious, deep, depressed individual and that makes me unique," that is poisoning more and more young people's minds as I type these words.
It's like they think it's cool to be a suicidal, angry, rude person.

Pft.

Silly is what it is. Listening to a certain kind of music or dressing in a certain way shouldn't lock you into a stereotype.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[DeathBug]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Actually, Godel, if you were a true Geek, you wouldn't sacrifice guenia pigs; you would eat them. The word geek was originally a term for circus freak-show performers who would eat any and all kinds of items for the crowds.

I myself will eat any and all types of pizza for the crowds.

Listen, people who use labels as their definition of self lack the self-confidence necessary to exist as a unique individual unto themselves. The people who define others by labels lack the ability to percieve others as anything beyond a shallow apperance. This discussion is kinda' lame.

So, who knows where the word 'dork' originates from?[/color][/size][/font]

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Actually, Godel, if you were a true Geek, you wouldn't sacrifice guenia pigs; you would eat them. The word geek was originally a term for circus freak-show performers who would eat any and all kinds of items for the crowds.

I myself will eat any and all types of pizza for the crowds.

Listen, people who use labels as their definition of self lack the self-confidence necessary to exist as a unique individual unto themselves. The people who define others by labels lack the ability to percieve others as anything beyond a shallow apperance. This discussion is kinda' lame.

So, who knows where the word 'dork' originates from?[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]

A Dork is a Whale's cock. Some of the largest Dorks are some 13 or so feet long... iinterstingly, it is the Sperm Whale who posesses the largest dork.

[Captain Iuno]

I've been reading this over and over again. And I've come to realise that there's only one person who's actually a bit right, you know. It's Solo. He said that we shouldn't divide everyone into groups and label them.
So after thinking for a while (ahem...a bit longer though) I've realised that he's right.
We shouldn't be doing that. And actually, deep inside everyone's the same.

*hugs everyone*

[Godelsensei]

[QUOTE=DeathBug][color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Actually, Godel, if you were a true Geek, you wouldn't sacrifice guenia pigs; you would eat them. The word geek was originally a term for circus freak-show performers who would eat any and all kinds of items for the crowds.
So, who knows where the word 'dork' originates from?[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]
Actually, Buggie, they would most commonly bite the heads off of chickens.^_~ You'll be surprised at some of the obscure facts I know as well as you do.

(Besides, in ancient Greece, after you sacrificed an animal, you would eat at least part of it. >_>)

And the word dork was originally a slang term for the male reproductive organ. I suppose it evolved into dick-head, and then into dork. Or something. Who knows?

Edit: (note)
I didn't read Drix's post before answering the dork thing.[/FONT]
[/COLOR]

[Genkai]

My rule of thum gis that anoyne who says "I am a goth." is not a goth.

[Juu]

[quote name='Genkai']My rule of thum gis that anoyne who says "I am a goth." is not a goth.[/quote]

[color=deeppink][size=1]Same deal goes with 'I am not a poser', too. But for some reason, people at my school who are so completely obviously trying to dress like Good Charlotte get pissed when someone asks if they're 'goth' or 'punk'.

I don't think anyone can really BE 'goth'. It's just a label that people try to FIT in to. I mean, there's no exact definition (okay- minus the history stuff =P) of what a 'goth' is. People TRY to be what they think is 'goth' by wearing all black/shopping around at Hot Topic/shopping around at Claires but not admitting it, and even try to mold their personalities and music tastes trying to be this certain stereotype.

...Which to me, is a total waste of money/effort. Anyone trying to change themselves to be a certain label, to me, is a poser. [/color][/size]

[DeathBug]

[QUOTE=Godelsensei][COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]
Actually, Buggie, they would most commonly bite the heads off of chickens.^_~ You'll be surprised at some of the obscure facts I know as well as you do.
[/FONT]
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=indigo][size=1][font=comic sans ms]Actually, Godel, geeks started off by eating animals in odd ways, but their act was modified over the years as the public's tastes demanded more interesting sideshows. =P [/color][/size][/font]

[Kami Kali]

[COLOR=DarkRed][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Many people may think I'm goth. I like the Darkness, I like to wear dark colors refering to black, blood red and dark blue. I like pain because of the saying "No pain, no gain." I'm also the quiet type that only responds when talked to, people think I'm thinking of some evil scheme.

I hate saying the word l-o-v-e. I was never happy before or I never remember the time when I was happy. I maybe laughing, but I dont smile. I dont care about the world. I don't care about what people think about me because I know what I am. I would admit I can become a good goth, but I'm not.

I have friends who are goth. They don't boast about it or anything. They act like me, but dress darker because sometimes I might wear white(which is once a month). I wouldn't put myself under the category of "Goth" even if I act like just them. I like to be alone in my own group. [/SIZE] [/FONT] [/B] [/COLOR]

[Juu]

[quote name='Kami Kali][COLOR=DarkRed][B][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I was never happy before or I never remember the time when I was happy. [/SIZE] [/FONT] [/B'] [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=deeppink][size=1]...And you're twelve years old? :therock:

As for the saying 'No Pain, No Gain', bad things happen and we can't do anything about it besides learn from our mistakes and be stronger as a person. Uhh... I don't LIKE pain, but people need pain or 'bad' events to understand and appreciate happiness, so I think of it as something vital.

Also, everyone goes through tough times, though maybe sometimes some people more than others. But I don't get how being depressed gets you to drag yourself to the nearest mall to buy black clothes and sit in front of the mirror applying eyeliner whilst bashing preps and such.

But I find it so ironic how people actually think they can be good at being a certain label. ...unless they're doing impressions, or something...

*shuts up* Excuse me. ~_~;[/color][/size]

[Inari]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]I went out and did a little research on Goths, and I found this website written by physiologists about Gothic culture. It is [URL=http://http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm]HERE[/URL]. Most of my information came from that site.

Basically the term Goth originated from three sources. First, as mentioned before, Goth was the name of the Germanic Visigoth tribes that overthrew the Holy Roman Empire. Second, Gothic was a form of architecture in Western Europe which was popular from the 12th to the 16th century. These Gothic Cathedrals were in the shape of a Christian cross, and were ornamented with stained glass windows and gargoyles. Third, Gothic was a style of literature originating in 19th century England dealing with the dark, eerie and gloomy. These writers included Mary Shelly, who wrote [I]Frankenstein[/I] and Bram Stoker, the author of [I]Dracula[/I]

Modern Goths can be nominal or devout Christians. Atheism, Agnosticism, the New Age, Gnosticism, Shamanism, Wicca, other Neopagan traditions, and other minority faith groups. There is no set religion which all Goths follow. Some other commonalities in Goths include:

- Its unique music, art and literature.

-The use of extreme black clothing, light colored makeup, unusual hair styles, body piercing, bondage items, etc.

- A fascination with medieval, Victorian and Edwardian history.

-Wearing of symbols such as a Christian cross; an Egyptian ankh or "Eye of Ra," or "Eye of Horus;" a Wiccan pentacle, a Satanic inverted pentacle. etc. This can represent their own beliefs or be meant as a satire.

- Goths tend to be non-violent, pacifistic, passive, and tolerant.

- Many Goths write about being depressed. Followers seem sullen and withdrawn, when in public.

-Many people become Goths after not fitting in at school, reading dark literature, or desiring to be shocking.

- A fascination with death. They try to find a different way of thinking about life, like trying to find beauty in life, pain and death. It's all a quest for immortality.

- Goth music often deals with thought-provoking topics, concentrating on societal evils, like racism, war, hatred of groups, etc. They tend to concentrate on the very "nasty, unhappy" topics that "North American culture" wants to "ignore and forget."

- Some Goths enjoy playing role playing games. However, RPGs are not an integral component of Goth culture. It is just that those intellectual and creative challenges that draw them to the Goth scene make them more likely to enjoy RPGs as well.

- Other interests: writings by authors like Dante, Byron, Tolstoy; German Expressionist silent films; writing music; painting, etc.

I think that Gothic is a loose term, and means a lot of thing to various different people. There is no formula for calculating who is really Gothic; it means different things to different people as this thread has just shown.[/COLOR]