Anime Anime Club -- Sudden rise in popularity?

[Syk3]

Well, today we finally had our first anime club meeting in the new school. As this year's president, it was my job to ask permission from an administrator, find a sponsor, make the club official, make and put up fliers, and write up announcements to be read. As usual, there were the generic people who were just like "ooohhhh, anime?! I want to watch pokemon! lmfao!1!", but I did expect at least 20 people to show up based on those that my friends and I got confirmation from.

Boy was I surprised. O_O

Not including the 10 or so people who couldn't make it to the first meeting, my friend counted a total of 47 kids who showed up for the club. Obviously this made the classroom extremely crowded, so for the next meeting we're going to try to have it in the cafeteria and wheel in a tv on a cart, or something. I can't imagine how insane it's going to get when we start ordering pizza. ~_~

For the first meeting, my friend and I didn't want to start on anything permenant (like a series), so we just brought in a lot of movies and voted on which ones to watch. Akira ended up be chosen over the Bebop movie, but I honestly didn't care what we watched. Besides, I would say that Akira is a great choice to start off as, since it's such a classic anime and this is what Americans in the early 90s thought of when they though of anime, so it's good to bring them back to that time, heh.

The only things that really bothered me were that a lot of people were talking during most of the movie, despite our insistance to be quiet, and that nearly half of the people left at 4:30, the time that we said it would end, when we only had 5 minutes to go in the movie.

I suppose that the point that I'm getting to for a topic is.. how far has anime really come in America today if it influences almost 50 people in one school to join an anime club? o.o Of course, you have to factor out those people who are just there for the mainstream like Inuyasha (trust me, there were a few), and people who don't really like anime and are just looking for something to do (my friend claims that a couple people were just making out the whole time o_O). Either way, I'm still convinced that we can win people like this over with the kind of stuff we'll be watching in the club. :p

So has anyone else seen evidence such as this that suggest a large boom in anime popularity lately? O.o I mean, even in my anime clubs in the past, the most people we've had was like 20.

[COLOR=#503F86][SIZE=1][b]Thread edited ^_~ -Solo[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b]

[Sword Breaker]

In turth? It is more like a decline. Now that 4KIDS got its claws into so many potentially awsom Anime, most people are being turned off. When you turn on the Fox Box on saterday morning and see a horrible 4KIDS anime, like waht those morons did to One Piece! My god! They killed it! You just gona think, "Ohhh, Anime? It is all like this, it is sooo gay!" Then people stop watching it, and miss the more serious ones they show later, like Inuyasha, Which Hunter Robin, God, Even DBZ is better then a 4KIDS anime. Disgusting Dubbing. Subs are much better anyway.

[Syk3]

[quote name='Sword Breaker']In turth? It is more like a decline. Now that 4KIDS got its claws into so many potentially awsom Anime, most people are being turned off. When you turn on the Fox Box on saterday morning and see a horrible 4KIDS anime, like waht those morons did to One Piece! My god! They killed it! You just gona think, "Ohhh, Anime? It is all like this, it is sooo gay!" Then people stop watching it, and miss the more serious ones they show later, like Inuyasha, Which Hunter Robin, God, Even DBZ is better then a 4KIDS anime. Disgusting Dubbing. Subs are much better anyway.[/quote]Well, I don't think it's so much of a decline in the way you describe it. At most, 4Kids turns people away before they even begin to like it, and that's with the few series that they have edited. If people like anime already, they'll know that there are better things out there, rather than just not watch anymore anime. But I will agree that 4Kids is giving a particularly bad reptuation to anime for those who haven't seen any.

[Sword Breaker]

Basicly thats what i meant. Most of the younger viwers dont stay up till like 10 or whnever there on, specifcly for that purpose, so eventually the flow of the younger viewers will decline massivly, and lot of the older viwers will grow out of it. Which is wiki gay. *not saying everyone will grow outta it, but some will*

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

Why does everyone wear indie shirts and converse shoes?

Anime is becoming trendy. I bet Hot Topic is going to start selling it.

I went to a Walden's Books store recently and they had about 15 anime wall scrolls hung up. They had count 'em three full aisles dedicated to manga and related items like art books and drawing tutorials. A bunch of anime racks, plushies everywhere; it's madness. Now, I am a manga and anime fan and I'm not going to condemn the fact that it's becoming popular but all I'm hoping for is respect and increased quality... which is imminet, but perhaps not in the -near- future.

I'm an art major and I was surprised by the amount of people who not only watch anime but are including elements into their compositions and desire to become japanese style animators and cartoonists.

Orlando is basically the hot spot for everything anime related in Florida. There are anime stores here. Not just stores that sell anime, but stores dedicated to just anime. I think we host more than 3 anime conventions yearly. Other large cities like Atlanta are very similiar, but this is obvious due to large populations... and other stuff, I guess. I'm no sociologist.

I think the rise in popularity is based on the growth of the internet and gaming. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but it seems gaming is becoming more and more popular too. My school's bar/arcade is chock full of gamer nerds playing Doom3 on their uber laptops, the DDR machine is swamped even though is sucks, and you have to wait in line to play Marvel vs. Street Fighter. Anyway, the best technology comes from Japan, I think we all know that... since the birth of bit torrent and the increase in people speeding up their internet connections to dsl/cable, people are downloading anime like there's no tomorrow.

Plus, anime is all over tv like a fat women on KFC. I know not everyone has those expensive digital channels that exclusively show anime and what not, but with Cartoon Network and local channels (respective to everyone's location) showing -even the crappiest of dub jobs- we can expect more and more people to be showing interest in anime. Some people can't recognize a good anime from a bad one and just think they rock because THEY'RE DIFFERENT. **** people, I was obsessed with DBZ for the longest time. I quit life to watch that show. But anyway, my point is (>.>), people are going to watch tv and with the rise of anime being shown on it, popularity is going to increase. Disney Channel is showing 1 or 2 animes now... Did you know? :rolleyes:

I guess that's my semi-indepth analysis of anime's increase in popularity in the states. I'm sure it doesn't apply to all areas, of course.

[OtakuSennen]

[quote name='Sword Breaker']In turth? It is more like a decline. Now that 4KIDS got its claws into so many potentially awsom Anime, most people are being turned off. When you turn on the Fox Box on saterday morning and see a horrible 4KIDS anime, like waht those morons did to One Piece! My god! They killed it! You just gona think, "Ohhh, Anime? It is all like this, it is sooo gay!" Then people stop watching it, and miss the more serious ones they show later, like Inuyasha, Which Hunter Robin, God, Even DBZ is better then a 4KIDS anime. Disgusting Dubbing. Subs are much better anyway.[/quote][color=navy]It's not a decline if it was never at a peak. The infamous "all cartoons are for kids" stereotype has been associated with anime for a very long time, and there has never been a real pause where most people didn't associate all anime with Dragonball or something in that caliber.

As for Syk's club, I am surprised that almost fifty people showed up. I can't really think of any reasons why so many people would show up, aside from anime growing in popularity. It's good that there were only one or two Inuyasha fans, too. :p

I have noticed a slight increase in casual and hardcore anime fans in my school this year. It's not nearly as drastic as fifty people showing up to watch Akira, but I noticed a girl reading Hot Gimmick, a kid who watches most Adult Swim anime, and a few kids who have adopted manga-esque styles in art class. One even understood an obscure Eva reference I made in math the other day..

Of course, if anime becomes incredibly popular it will then become even more bastardized through commercialization and the like, then it may lose heart as it gains fanbase. I've always thought that even semi-casual anime fans, unlike some fans of other forms of media, have never accepted everything that is thrown at them. If major motion picture companies start cranking out star-studded dubs, the spirit of the otaku may fade into obscurity. Of course, that all is just a possibility.[/color]

[Sol-Blade]

Yeah you would be surprised how common Anime and Manga are now, least where I am it is pretty common. I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen with with my own eyes, but anime is all over my college campus. People I would have never expected to have even heard of series such as D.N.Angel or Naruto are now joining in my coversations with friends, like it was talk about an up-coming football game. I take an advanced drawing class at my school, I usually draw lots of fanart of my favorites series...but im not the only one apparently. At least more than half my class can draw some really, really good fanart. It amazes me how popular it is at my school, I mean even some of the hard-headed jocks here have gone to see the Bebop movie. Why even today, I overheard at least a dozen conversations about the new Ghost in the Shell movie, it's apparently the movie to see this month. I used to remember days when posters of models or cars lined the dorm rooms. Now, I have Eva and Hellsing posters on my walls. :D

It's really quite ironic when I think about it.

[Katana]

There is definetly an increse in anime - and I see no problem with liking a (slightly) mainstream anime like Inuyasha. Not everbody likes it, you know. ^_~
The proof comes that you even wanted to start an anime club in the first place. If you didn't think many people would show up, then it would've been rather pointless. But because you tried, it became obvious just how many people like anime.
It's rather surprising - I've learned that numerous kids in sixth grade like anime, and one girl is a fanatic about Hiei (Yu Yu Hakusho). In the case of myself and my friends, we talk about anime like "normal" people would talk about some hot new movie. And because people ask us so many times "like, what are you drawing?", the response of "anime" has become so plastered into their brains that they become interested in just [i]what[/i] it is we like.
*breathes*
4Kids and Funimation: Two companies that can destory animes if you're not careful. (I think the only product that Funimation didn't ruin was Yu Yu Hakusho - but that's just me). Other companies, such as Ocean Studios (Inuyasha) and Pioneer (Tenchi Muyo) do great jobs when dubbing animes. Wait, I'm going off track...
In closure, anime is definetly increasing in popularity. You can see it wherever you go - and when mainstream stores like Target and Best Buy have an exclusivie, anime-only section, it makes them really stand out.
Hey Syk, any tips for the club? We're thinking of starting one at my school. ^^

[Syk3]

[quote name='Sword Breaker']Basicly thats what i meant. Most of the younger viwers dont stay up till like 10 or whnever there on, specifcly for that purpose, so eventually the flow of the younger viewers will decline massivly, and lot of the older viwers will grow out of it. Which is wiki gay. *not saying everyone will grow outta it, but some will*[/quote]That's the thing. The content that 4Kids aims for is.. well, for kids. A younger audience. o.o So if anything, they'll grow up with this anime and do one of two things. Either a, consider anime to be a part of their childhood and 'grow out of it'. Or b, actually take an interest in expanding their anime knowledge and look for something that appeals to their taste as they grow older.

[quote name='*GaLxY-GiRl*']I went to a Walden's Books store recently and they had about 15 anime wall scrolls hung up. They had count 'em three full aisles dedicated to manga and related items like art books and drawing tutorials. A bunch of anime racks, plushies everywhere; it's madness. Now, I am a manga and anime fan and I'm not going to condemn the fact that it's becoming popular but all I'm hoping for is respect and increased quality... which is imminet, but perhaps not in the -near- future.[/quote]Three aisles dedicated to anime and manga? That's badass. I'm going to have to say that anime has already reached a high point in quality. You can buy great DVDs with extras and everything of the coolest anime just about anywhere, and I think that respect will inevitably come with time.

Although I can't really quote the rest of your post in particular, I do agree with a lot of your points. I find it funny that we can attribute much of the popularity to the anime shown on tv despite our best efforts to avoid mentioning those shows when describing anime to someone. It's going to get some people to love it, and some to hate it, I suppose.

EDIT:

[quote name='Katana']There is definetly an increse in anime - and I see no problem with liking a (slightly) mainstream anime like Inuyasha. Not everbody likes it, you know. ^_~[/quote]Yeah, but what I was getting at in the original post was that they came to the club expecting to see [i]nothing but[/i]. :p

[quote]The proof comes that you even wanted to start an anime club in the first place. If you didn't think many people would show up, then it would've been rather pointless. But because you tried, it became obvious just how many people like anime.[/quote]Yeah, well, you know. lol I did have a little hope that we would have a lot of people, but the reason I started the club was to carry on the tradition from my old school (there was a new school built, so I went to that one), I was vice-president last year, and this is my last yeat of high school, heh.

[quote]Hey Syk, any tips for the club? We're thinking of starting one at my school. ^^[/QUOTE]Heh, no problem, but it depends on the school and principal. If this school generally only allows the most official of clubs, you might want to go with the title of "The Japanese Culture Appreciation Club" with a mission statement like "We want to use animation to learn different aspects of Japanese culture" or something, and maybe dedicate a time to discuss the anime. Otherwise, what I did was call it the "Japanese Animation Club" to make it sound official but not confuse people. Then you'll need to talk to an administrator about starting a club, and find a teacher that will let you use their room and watch over the group. Make sure that they know that they can just do their own work and don't have to watch what you're watching, but just be there if you get too roudy, you know? (also, male sponsors tend to let more slide ;)) Then what I recommend to get to word out is make flyers and put them up around the building (with permission, of course), and write up announcements if possible. Then just tell as many people as you can, heh.

If you want a sample flyer, I can email or AIM mine, but you'll first need to download the font Dauphin.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

There has been a rise in anime's popularity, as it's moving more and more into the mainstream. The same is true of manga. Yes, there are at least 3 shelves in most B&N bookstores here dedicated to manga. In Border's there are 5 or so. Media Play has 4 1/2 (counting side-of-the-shelf displays). Part of the reason is the ever-increasing amount of genres and titles available, which means that almost anyone who has had any exposure to it can find something he/she likes. Another reason is the increasing exposure itself. Stores like Target and Media Play actually send out mini-mags that highlight new anime and manga available at those stores. Of course there's also TV and video games (a huge number of which are anime-styled, such as the FF series, Pokemon, Golden Sun, Tales of Symphonia, ... heck, even Legend of Zelda, and that's just naming some of the big guns).

There certainly hasn't been a decline in the popularity of anime/manga in America. That's a long ways away from happening, I'd imagine. People who complain about certain animes or manga being "ruined" don't ditch all anime/manga altogether.

My prediction is that anime is only going to get more popular as titles get picked up by film studios to be made into live-action adaptations.

Anyway... congratulations on having such a successful turnout, Syk. I hope your club does well. It's scary, but OSU's manga club (the largest university in the US!) only has about 15 members. I don't know about the anime club, but still that's a really low number all things considered.

[Dagger]

[quote name='*GaLxY-GiRl*']I bet Hot Topic is going to start selling it.[/quote]
Bingo. Hot Topic recently made a deal with ADV to sell Robotech sampler DVDs. I don't think this indicative of anime becoming "trendy," per se... Hot Topic has always tried to capitalize on '80s nostalgia, and it definitely makes sense for them to sell Robotech-related merchandise. However, I do feel that anime's popularity has steadily increased over the years.

[quote][i]... since the birth of bit torrent and the increase in people speeding up their internet connections to dsl/cable, people are downloading anime like there's no tomorrow.[/i][/quote]
Yes, but that isn't necessarily a good thing for the American anime industry. Increased awareness doesn't count for much unless the new fans demonstrate a willingness to actually spend money on anime (or at least start watching it on television). I'm a [i]very[/i] casual gamer--yet I'm sure I'd play more video games if they were free.

[quote][I]Disney Channel is showing 1 or 2 animes now... Did you know? [/I] :rolleyes:[/quote]
Really? I didn't know that. Which series are they airing?

~Dagger~

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[quote name='Dagger IX1']Really? I didn't know that. Which series are they airing?[/quote]

I may have gotten a bit carried away... Disney shows stuff like Beyblade, Digimon, and Power Rangers on Toon Disney. I over heard of commercial for their new "Jetix" which is basically like a Toonami or Meguzi, and assumed it was an anime. Heh, oops. Well, they do show anime! Beyblade is SO cool, I mean, fighting with tops? [I]WHAT[/I]? >.>

They show old Miyazaki stuff too, but everyone knows that.

[Sol-Blade]

Hmm...

Disney + Anime = The Twilight of the Gods and the End of Time. :D

Seriously though, when I think of anime...Disney is NOT what comes to mind. [I]Ever[/I]. They can think of latching on to the anime scene...but I can not picture them taking a serious holding of ground in the genre. This is all just speculation, but im just saying. If they ever were to broaden their horizons, best of luck to them!

Besides, Disney...is well...Disney. A genre of its own basically.

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[QUOTE=Sol-Blade]Hmm...

Disney + Anime = The Twilight of the Gods and the End of Time. :D

Seriously though, when I think of anime...Disney is NOT what comes to mind. [I]Ever[/I]. They can think of latching on to the anime scene...but I can not picture them taking a serious holding of ground in the genre. This is all just speculation, but im just saying. If they ever were to broaden their horizons, best of luck to them!

Besides, Disney...is well...Disney. A genre of its own basically.[/QUOTE]

They've made their own anime-esque show called "Monkey.. monkey fighting hour... *googles it* Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force, Go!". Yes. Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force, Go! I bet it's as bad as it sounds. The animation is -kind of- cool, but it's so retro Japanese looking, and this isn't necessarily a -bad- thing (just creative borrowing/theft), but the plot sounds utterly ridiculous. A preview can be seen [U][URL=http://psc.disney.go.com/abcnetworks/toondisney/jetix/index.html]here[/URL][/U].

I think I'd like to prefer Disney aire some real anime rather than try to make their own by tweaking the style. I just don't think Americans can pull a really good imitation off. I think this is why American animation studies hire Japanese people... it's like DDR; they're born to do such things and raised to do them well. Anyway, I'm just tired of seeing really bad anime imitations like Totally Spies and Teen Titans. It's so cheesy...

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='*GaLxY-GiRl*']I think I'd like to prefer Disney aire some real anime rather than try to make their own by tweaking the style. I just don't think Americans can pull a really good imitation off. I think this is why American animation studies hire Japanese people... it's like DDR; they're born to do such things and raised to do them well. Anyway, I'm just tired of seeing really bad anime imitations like Totally Spies and Teen Titans. It's so cheesy...[/quote]

American artists are just as good as Japanese artists. They can pull of a *perfect* imitation if they feel like it. American animation studios outsource work to Japan because it's cheaper, lol. And by the way, I wouldn't be surprised if Murakami is outsourcing Teen Titans as well, seeing as Batman: TAS was outsourced and Teen Titans are from the same studio.

But to say that Japanese are better at the "anime" art style than Americans is just silly. If you want to compare quality, compare writing or voice acting or something. Animators on both sides of the Pacific are good enough to draw whatever they feel like drawing.

[Dwellers]

Those that have an Anime Club, or a Japanese club in general, at their school are lucky. At my school, there are only a few people that like anime. If you take in account, (I assume) that there are more that hate anime, or cartoons, than those that like it or have no opinion on it. Furthmore, I don't think there are any student who have the time to start an anime club and find a teacher who wants to do it. Also, it takes about 2-4 years just to establish a club at my school. Finally, majority of the clubs at my school are related to school itself. The only club I could think of that doesn't have to do with school is the Chess Club and that started about 2 years ago.

In recap, there is no anime club at my school, and there will never be one, or never be one before I graduate.

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='narakusgirl367']i love inuyasha doesnt any one ever talk about inuyasha it rules i love anime[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]Yes, there's an Inuyasha thread in the forum- you just need to look for it. Please don't post unrelated replies to topics and try to add more detail where you can, please. This post is really far too short to comply with the [URL=http://www.otakuboards.com/rules.php?]Rules[/URL], which are essentil reading for all members here, new and old.[/COLOR]

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']But to say that Japanese are better at the "anime" art style than Americans is just silly. If you want to compare quality, compare writing or voice acting or something.[/quote]

I don't see what's wrong with claiming Japanese people are better at creating anime when the style belongs to them. It's just my opinion and I don't think it's that far-fetched. There's more to the "anime style" or Japanese animation in general than the recognizable art. They typical use a lower cel count than American animation for example, which sets it apart as a distinct style. The entire production is different. There MAY be these American animators out there that can *perfectly* match the style of anime as you claim, but where are they? Are they freelance or something? Feel free to link me to a website if they have one.

If Americans are out-sourcing Japanese animators I doubt it's soley because it's cheaper... it's because they're best at creating what's popular; the anime style and what not. They're not asking them to write for them or bring their high-pitched friends over to voice the characters, they just want them to animate.

This is just my opinion and I don't really think it's silly.

And what's this about comparing the quality of writing and voice acting? Are you saying instead of me comparing one country's mastery of its style and another's imitation of it, I should compare a Japanese voice actor with an American one? That sounds a little contradictory to me. [I]I[/I] wouldn't even go there. I would never compare voice actors from different countries because the culture is so different and I'm not even going to pretend I have a complete understanding.

[lavonia]

Anime is pretty huge among young people. My professor's say that 8 out of 10 portfolios they review have some animation style. They have a big problem with that since anime is a no-no at professional art colleges. Makes it all the more fun to do. :devil:

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Anime's becoming more mainstream, but it's sort of been shoved into the "geek" niche, to a lesser extent than Dungeons & Dragons or Magic the Gathering, and most of the people who pursue it as a hobby in North America think watching cut dubs and buying viz manga with all the wrong translations makes them "hardcore" and "underground".

Heh.

When people find out I like anime and say, "Oh, what do you watch?" and I reply, they usually O_o me and scuttle away.

Losers.

They are not 1337.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='*GaLxY-GiRl*']I don't see what's wrong with claiming Japanese people are better at creating anime when the style belongs to them. It's just my opinion and I don't think it's that far-fetched.[/quote]
Well I think it's somewhat unfounded. Also if you make a claim such as that it's not really an opinion as much as it is misinformation. If I say that the Earth is flat, that's not an opinion. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion but not to his/her own facts, right? So, please don't have an "opinion" on this subject.

[QUOTE]There's more to the "anime style" or Japanese animation in general than the recognizable art. They typical use a lower cel count than American animation for example, which sets it apart as a distinct style. The entire production is different.[/QUOTE]
A lower cel count has almost no effect on the artwork itself (especially when you treat it as a "style"). The differences in production affect some particular approaches when it comes to the [i]animation[/i] of the art, but regardless of whether an anime episode has 20,000 cels or 50,000 cels, the artists have to be just as "good" at drawing the style, whatever it may be.

[QUOTE]There MAY be these American animators out there that can *perfectly* match the style of anime as you claim, but where are they? Are they freelance or something? Feel free to link me to a website if they have one.[/QUOTE]
There's no reason to "perfectly" match any particular anime style (in fact, the styles in anime differ among themselves very greatly as well), and so no animation studio does it. Art directors determine what a show looks like, and their vision is influenced by many different things. An American art director, if heavily influenced by anime, might shoot for a visual style close to it. If he/she is instead mostly influenced by older American cartoons or comic books, then the style will reflect that. That is why you're not gonna find a "perfect match" of anime in American cartoons.
But don't take that as meaning that the artists themselves are simply unable to duplicate the style. Just go to deviantart.com (or even look at some fanarts in theOtaku) and you will see that there are more than enough artists out there (in the US) that can draw the "anime" style (whatever you think it is).

[QUOTE]If Americans are out-sourcing Japanese animators I doubt it's soley because it's cheaper... it's because they're best at creating what's popular; the anime style and what not. They're not asking them to write for them or bring their high-pitched friends over to voice the characters, they just want them to animate.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but that's not how it is. As I mentioned just above, it's the art director who determines the style of the cartoon. The animation team draws it, whatever it may be. To make my point, let me use two examples of cartoons which were outsourced to Japan to make the cells/animation: Batman: the Animated Series, and the old G.I. Joe. Both of these are indeed NOT anime-styled (especially G.I. Joe). But they were animated in Japan. Because "they're best at creating what's popular"? Not in this case, wouldn't you say?

My point is that it's not a question of who has better artists. After all, it's hard to beat what Disney/Dreamworks pump out, not to mention there's the guys who do CG for actual films. It's a question of who can contract what animation studio to do the most cost-effective (as well as satisfactory) job.

[QUOTE]And what's this about comparing the quality of writing and voice acting? Are you saying instead of me comparing one country's mastery of its style and another's imitation of it, I should compare a Japanese voice actor with an American one? That sounds a little contradictory to me. [I]I[/I] wouldn't even go there. I would never compare voice actors from different countries because the culture is so different and I'm not even going to pretend I have a complete understanding.[/QUOTE]
All I meant by that was not that we should change the subject of that you SHOULD go ahead and compare voice acting, but that you CAN. Where as you have absolutely no ground in saying that the Japanese are better at the "anime" style (there's nothing appropriate to compare, after all), you can make a generalization about the quality of voice acting in anime vs. the quality of voice acting in American cartoons.
If you ask me, the quality is about the same. You have your share of really really great stuff, and your share of total crap on both sides of the Pacific. Although I've yet to find a cartoon that outdoes Batman: TAS and Superman: TAS for voice acting...

[*GaLxY-GiRl*]

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade]A lower cel count has almost no effect on the artwork itself (especially when you treat it as a "style"). The differences in production affect some particular approaches when it comes to the [i]animation[/i'] of the art, but regardless of whether an anime episode has 20,000 cels or 50,000 cels, the artists have to be just as "good" at drawing the style, whatever it may be.[/quote]

You're an artist, right? I've been to your website. Please, for the sake of enlightment, from now on, even if this pissing contest is never resolved, please acknowledge the fact that [B]animation is art IN ITSELF[/B]. A drawing is art. Animation is art. A macaroni noodle chair with darts sticking out of it is art. The Art comes before you and me.

I'd also like to highlight this part of your argument, just for the hell of it.

[quote]Also if you make a claim such as that it's not really an opinion as much as it is misinformation (in reference to my claim that the Japanese are best at creating "anime" as a style) ... So, please don't have an "opinion" on this subject.[/quote]

There's just no sense in even having a debate with you. I wish you'd realize you're atleast 65% wrong and probably not representing YOUR OWN OPINIONS as best and accurately as you could be. :/ Grass is red, the sky is hot pink, George W. Bush is a genius, and OH!1MIGAWDDUSS sucks. Don't hate me, I'm just misinformed.

[I]*edit*
It's been brought to my attention in a rather comedic fashion that, "arguing over the internet is like being the champion of the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard." So, U R teh win, and I'm willing to agree that Hot Pockets kinda taste good.[/I]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

[quote name='*GaLxY-GiRl*]You're an artist, right? I've been to your website. Please, for the sake of enlightment, from now on, even if this pissing contest is never resolved, please acknowledge the fact that [B]animation is art IN ITSELF[/B']. A drawing is art. Animation is art. A macaroni noodle chair with darts sticking out of it is art. The Art comes before you and me.[/quote]
It appears you did not understand what I meant by the animation process. But whatever. If you think there is some artistic quality to the amount of frames per second at which animated motion pictures play, you're welcome to. I doubt many subscribe to your definition of "art," however.

I'd also like to highlight this part of your argument, just for the hell of it.

[QUOTE]...I wish you'd realize you're atleast 65% wrong and probably not representing YOUR OWN OPINIONS as best and accurately as you could be. :/ Grass is red, the sky is hot pink, George W. Bush is a genius, and OH!1MIGAWDDUSS sucks. Don't hate me, I'm just misinformed.[/QUOTE]
Is there a single sentence in there with substance? Next time you try to make a point, at least get to it.

I am fine with no longer debating with you on the subject, because it is clear that you know very little of the animation process in either the US or Japan, and what little you do know you misinterpret all the way to the moon. Best of luck elsewhere.