Manga Pedophilia in gunslinger girl

[\Firestorm]

I was able to read the volume 1 of GG manga and was surprised by relationship between fratello and the cyborg girls.

Do the girls have lolita complex? Do their fratello handlers have pedophilia?

If you've read the manga volume 1, then you should notice Giuseppe/Henrietta and Elsa/Lauro relationships.

Giuseppe gave Henrietta lots of gifts.

Elsa shot Lauro and then shot herself because he didn't love her.

Henrietta told Elenora Gabrielle "I feel like I want to please Giuseppe."

Listening to the girl, Gabrielle thought, "This is definitely a girl in love."

Triela told Signore Fermi "Elsa has affection for her handler. All of us (girls) have (for our handlers)."

[Dagger]

I've read the first volume of the manga and seen all thirteen episodes of the (incredibly good) Gunslinger Girl anime. While this series tends to attract a lot of lolicon fans, I don't think the relationships between the girls and their handlers are even mildly sexual. They're called "fratello" for a reason. While most of the girls, even Triela, feel some sort of deeply romantic attachment to their handlers, it's a very pure and innocent kind of love (as befits their age).

They can hardly help loving their older "brothers"; their affection, though deep, is largely artificial, the product of extensive brainwashing. As far as I can tell, none of the handlers would qualify as pedophiles--if anything, some of them have great difficulty relating to and dealing with young females. Several of the girls ended up feeling neglected or lonely because they were saddled with cold, distant fratello.

~Dagger~

[\Firestorm]

Let me rephrase Triela's quotation again because I reread the manga recently.

When the investigator Fermi was interviewing Triela about Elsa, Triela told him "Elsa was totally in love with her handler, Lauro. Most of the kids are."

She even admitted "I do have some affection for Hillshire."

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=\Firestorm]Let me rephrase Triela's quotation again because I reread the manga recently.

When the investigator Fermi was interviewing Triela about Elsa, Triela told him "Elsa was totally in love with her handler, Lauro. Most of the kids are."

She even admitted "I do have some affection for Hillshire."[/QUOTE]

Still, Triela's observations don't contradict the idea that it's an intensely naive and hopeless kind of love. If a handler tried to sexually abuse his charge, she very well might be incapable of objecting. However, this did not ever become an issue in the anime, and I doubt it will be raised in later volumes of the manga.

~Dagger~

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=blue][SIZE=2]I really have to agree with Dagger. There's so many different types of love, all of which are hardly discrete. With Gunslinger Girl, the regions of love become more broad, since you have to consider that the girls could be viewed as simple machines, making the love in question nothing more than someone's love for a handy tool. Even with that leeway, I never expected someone to consider the love in Gunslinger Girl to be anything more than a paternal one.

Secondly, a little girl liking an older man is not lolita. If it was the other way around, then... haha...

Last, don't try to overanalyze simple human emotions. English uses love so liberally, so while I realize how easy it is to jump between the different types, love (friendship even) between two persons of the opposite sex don't always equate to trying to score.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Damn you Skippedry and Azure-jiji! Saying what I was about to! >:^O

People love to jump to the conclusion that any relationship between people of the opposite gender has to be sexual, if it involves any kind of love.
You can love your big brother, but I doubt you'd ever want to French him.

Watch 'Lost In Translation'. It's the most realistic relationship movie I've ever seen, purely because the characters didn't need to do anything obscene in order to, clearly, become very close.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[\Firestorm]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=blue][SIZE=2]

Secondly, a little girl liking an older man is not lolita. If it was the other way around, then... haha...
.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Yes, girls who likes an older men can be called Lolitas.

Here is the meaning of lolita from Merriam-Webster dictionary

Main Entry: Lo·li·ta
Pronunciation: lO-'lE-t&
Function: noun
Etymology: from Lolita, character in the novel Lolita (1955) by Vladimir Nabokov
: a precociously seductive girl

If you don't believe me, check the lolita's meaning at [url]http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=lolita[/url]

SYLLABICATION: Lo·li·ta
PRONUNCIATION: l-lt
NOUN: A seductive adolescent girl.
ETYMOLOGY: After Lolita, the heroine of Lolita, a novel by Vladimir Nabokov

Source: [url]http://www.bartleby.com/61/42/L0234200.html[/url]


In the anime episode 9, Elsa said "'you and the other girls dont know what its like to be in love'

In the manga, the male investigator, when talking to Triela, also asked the relationship between elsa and lauro, she told them that all the girls feel something for their handler but didnt know if this was the result of the conditioning or because they were actually close

Giuseppe treats henrietta like a daughter/little sister, in which he still shows affection for her, but henrietta loves him which will more than likely cause problems in later volumes (since she said that she would kill a man that she loved, and herself, if he didnt feel the same way)

as for Rico and her handler, their relationship isnt really explored in the first volume except for Triela saying that Rico was just a tool to her handler (names are too long to say)

Triela admits that she has some feelings for her handler but she cant explain it

The feelings of the girls towards their handler can either be pointed to the conditioning, since its much easier to give your life for a loved one than someone who just gives orders. Or it could be because their the only contact they have with other people, essentially its stockholm syndrome

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE]Yes, girls who likes an older men can be called Lolitas...

...a precociously seductive girl...

...NOUN: A seductive adolescent girl...
[/QUOTE] [FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Well, I could be wrong about the whole lolita thing, or it could just be a subjective thing. Whatever the case, the definitions you gave seem to support my idea. I mean, dictionary.com defines seductive as "Tending to seduce; alluring," which means that the girl appears attractive to the man. Whether or not she feels the same isn't developed or explained in the definitions you have provided.

Well, let's not go off on a tangent. I'm willing to say I'm wrong about the meaning of lolita, since it doesn't matter all too much. [QUOTE]The feelings of the girls towards their handler can either be pointed to the conditioning, since its much easier to give your life for a loved one than someone who just gives orders. Or it could be because their the only contact they have with other people, essentially its stockholm syndrome[/QUOTE] If you want to discuss the anime, then you should consider the fact that only Triela [spoiler]is capable of having those kinds of feelings since the rest of the girls don't have... "feminine needs."[/spoiler] So, whilst we prescribe all these wild ideas, I think that's something you should look into.

There's a common heed given by a lot of humanities teachers (at least around here): "Don't confuse the author with the narrator, and don't confuse the narrator with a character." In this case, we are only looking at the second half of that statement. Since we don't have a narrator, there's no single person who speaks 100% truth. In other words, whatever the characters say doesn't necessarily become a fact. If Elsa says others don't know what it's like to be in love, not only could you argue that she could be wrong, but you don't know if she is considering herself ignorant of love as well (think about it).

Aside from that, I think the rest of your examples show how the relationship is not pedophilia-inclined, unless you'd like to argue otherwise.

Last, let's get down to pedophilia itself. Whoever loves who, I'm pretty sure that pedophilia does not involve killing everyone - including the one you love - for the sake of... what? You could say that the love the girls feel is so great that it becomes dangerous, but now you're stuck with proving if that's what real love is or not (which, last I checked, was considered a mental disease and not defined as love, thereby making it not pedophilia).

EDIT: Oh, right! Good call, Godel! [B]Lost in Translation[/B] is a perfect example of how implicit an obvious love (yeah, that kind of love) can be without any explicitness. I think that's a great show for this discussion, since it demonstrates or tests a person's ability to discern between levels of love.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[2010DigitalBoy]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]I just bought Gunslinger Girl volume one almost on impulse after reading the first 2 chapters while in Barnes and Noble and thinking [i]this is freaking [b]cool[/b][/i]!

The relationships between the girls and their handlers are my favorite part, partly because I'm a fan of softhearted men caring for girls who love them. And... stuff. Even though I normally hate unrequieted love, this one makes an exception. Everything about this manga was cool - the action was well done and the organization is a kind of cool setup. I like that it's not all 'zomg we are assassinzz!' or anything. Also, it takes place in Italy. Also, I love the art style. It's very clear and easy to tell what's going on.

So anyway, I'm going to go use all my self-restraint to not look up any doujins relating to this show >_>

Also, this deserves t3h revive because apparently ADV had nearly dropped the series, but recently picked it back up. Oh, and someone PLEASE change the thread name. Most ignorant crap ever...[/COLOR]

[Darktigerpack17]

Firestorm, not all love is sexually oriented. In your definitions it descibes lolitas as a "seductive girl". I cannot recall at any time in the series of any of the girls becoming "seductive". Or seduced for that matter. It seems that the girls were, as state by those before me, an innocent, naive type of love. Else did what she did because she was in love. Reminds me a bit a Romeo and Juliet, thought I may be a little off.

Henrietta is treated the same way I treat my neice, and I have no interest in her as a lolita. Just because I spoil her rotten doesn't me I like her like that. Henrietta see Jose more as an older brother in my opinion, and vice versa.

Treila seems to understand that they are brainwashed, but has affections for her handler in the same manner, just not as openly as Henrietta.

Rico is the more obviously used one, rather than loved. Everyone should be able to pick up on the fact that Rico was just a tool, and brainwashed to be effective as a tool, to obey combat and training commands through respecting her handler, not to love him.