Punk Is Dead.....

[Sea Of Chaos666]

There are way to many punks out there now. And it's not just punks there are also people [well at least in my school] who say they are gansters! I mean come on! But most the people in my school who say they are punks lisen to Avril and Good charolet. I myself don't like them. I have a littel band of friends that are made fun of by the punks becase we are goth. Me and my freinds like hard rock such as
1. Otep
2.Norma Jean
3.Nine inch nails
4.Kittie
5.Bijork[not really rock]
Hot topic does have many posers who go there and I know the people who work there think so to. My friend Arin works there and he says he can not stand it. Some of my friends are punk but they lisen to AFI and stuff like that. I would have to say that the punks who make fun of me are posers.

[lokis01]

I didn't read all the posts on this because they seemed to be getting repetitive. Something you all seem to be missing is this ....... pop = popular. All generas at some point have been or will become pop music. Rock was pop, metal was pop, dance was pop now it is punks turn. The unfortunate side effect of this is that the talent becomes watered down as more and more people jump on the band wagon, many simply lesser imitations of those that pioneered the sound. Unfortunately punk was founded on rebellion (hmmm .. wasn't rock, metal and new wave founded on the same principle?) or was it more just a desire for a culture to be different than the one that preceded it? I backslid a bit there, the unfortunate thing is that because so many people want to be punk the original fans are now alienated because they are no longer different. Wow, I just read back and noticed how bad I babbled, but I think my point has been made. A second point I have to bring up is that you shouldn't be shiteing on bands because you don't like them. You have to remember music is an artform, all art is subject to personal taste and oppinions, in other words it is perceived differently by everyone. Not likeing it doesn't make it bad all it means is you don't like it ... and you are entitled to that oppinion, just don't expect it to be agreed with by everyone else.

[Drix D'Zanth]

Avril is more punk than any artist since the Ramones... why?

My thesis:

Punk- paraphrased and defined is commonly intepreted as "going against the system" we hear references to that toward all sorts of establishment and government, society being bettered by independence and free-rocking.

The Ramones, despite occuring around the same time as the Sex Pistols and after The Clash, basically started the genre. They started "Punk rock" .. and every band following it has taken the basic methods of the Ramones and slightly deviated, continuing the system that is "punk".

Avril plays soft rock and pop, calls it 'punk" and broadcasts it mainstream. She is directly defying the system that is "punk rock".

Hence, Avril is the punk-est of them all.

[Onikage]

[quote name='LPpunkrocka']I believe a lot of the same things. Hot Topic IS a cool store, but unfortunately, it's also a way to draw in the posers...-- It's real ******* sad, it really is.[/quote]
:laugh: your right, I go in to that store quite a lot and every fr*ggin day I see a poser walk in, I smile every time I see them :cool:

[QUOTE=Drix D'Zanth]Avril is more punk than any artist since the Ramones... why?

My thesis:

Punk- paraphrased and defined is commonly intepreted as "going against the system" we hear references to that toward all sorts of establishment and government, society being bettered by independence and free-rocking.

The Ramones, despite occuring around the same time as the Sex Pistols and after The Clash, basically started the genre. They started "Punk rock" .. and every band following it has taken the basic methods of the Ramones and slightly deviated, continuing the system that is "punk".

Avril plays soft rock and pop, calls it 'punk" and broadcasts it mainstream. She is directly defying the system that is "punk rock".

Hence, Avril is the punk-est of them all.[/QUOTE]

:laugh: I don't consider her punk. I actually consider her Pop. She sounds like one anywayz. Call it as you must, there ain't no hell she's be considered a punk rocker. The only true punk rock band out their is Greenday, and I don't even like them :D

[DeathBug]

Actually, Drix has a valid point. The fact is, most recent 'punk' bands are simply following the stereotype of what 'punk' is supposed to be, and that includes Green Day. And most punk fans tend to be elistists who decide that what they like is real punk, and the rest are posers.

It's called the Punk Phenomena: when a culture that bucks the mainstream becomes so popular that it's absorbed by the mainstream.

[kaisha]

i don't consider myself punk, more goth, but punk has become so far from what it used to stand for its sad really. :(

[Onikage]

[QUOTE=TOTALIMMORTAL][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed] As much as I'd like to deny it and wish it wasn't true, what was once punk is now honestly dead. I consider myself "punk" but most people probably wouldn't deem me so because I don't exactly dress like all the other people who do think they are. I listen to Classic Rock, Heavy Metal, Hard Rock, and of course, Punk. But this isn't about me. I think music keeps changing too much to stay popular with the times, and that's not what music should be about. And especially not Punk Rock. Punk Rock used to actually mean something back in the day, people either loved it or hated it. Now it's actually a [B]FREAKIN CLOTHING STYLE[/B]?!!! :flaming:

I hate that. Way too many kids these days wear a Misfits shirt or something and haven't even heard a single song by them. Punk is sure as hell not about popularity, but thanks to places like Hot Topic, everybody's got a freakin studded belt and a Ramones shirt. Hot Topic is the Anti-Christ to what actually used to mean something. As much as I love Punk Rock, I can honestly say that places like Hot Topic, and those stupid "pop" punk bands like Good Charlotte, have brought about the demise of punk. Bands these days just keep becoming less and less musically talented, and more and more sing-along. Does anybody feel the same way as me, that punk as become way too popular and means practically nothing anymore? I wish it weren't so, but Punk Rock is either Six Feet Under or somewhere close to it.....[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Although Im more of a Purerock/Metal type of person, I still listen to some punk bands out there and I do agree with your statement. I'm glad Im not the only one who feels the same way. Lets just face it people, Punk is dead, their ain't no other band out there that sounds punk other then Greenday, and although, I may think that Avril sounds pop, Drix do actually bring a point, she is against the system so yah I guess she's punk :D

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=DeathBug]Actually, Drix has a valid point. The fact is, most recent 'punk' bands are simply following the stereotype of what 'punk' is supposed to be, and that includes Green Day. And most punk fans tend to be elistists who decide that what they like is real punk, and the rest are posers.
[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]I could really care less if what I'm listening to is considered punk by a bunch of elitists who think that just because a band is being played on MTV and the radio they're suddenly sell-outs and not punk anymore. (ie Good Charlotte, which yeah, I like and I have their first CD along with their second and third) My Goddess quit trying to sound cool.

I'm not quite sure what a poser is, but I'm pretty sure I'm not one...can you be poser when you reach your mid twenties? I hate when people try to say well so and so isn't punk because everyone's heard of them....Yeah well, the same is going to happen to your bands soon, and take off that damn Ramone's sweatshirt. You're too young to even know who the Ramones are. Honestly there are so many pre-teens and just teens with no idea who they are let alone who some punk bands are.

Oh, and I like Avril Levine too! I hope some day she kicks Hillary Duff's uh...duff! ke ke ke[/color]

[mangakiwi]

I will say punk is not as hardcore as it us to be, we dont have g.g.allin any more and the dead kennedys suck without Jello. But their is a ray of hope coming out of the sky, nofx has kept stuff going by using their record company to find new bads as the same goes for Bad Religon :love: with Epitaph Records. and do not forget all of the little bands in your home town!!!!!

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Onikage']:laugh: I don't consider her punk. I actually consider her Pop. She sounds like one anywayz. Call it as you must, there ain't no hell she's be considered a punk rocker. The only true punk rock band out their is Greenday, and I don't even like them :D[/quote]
And I don't care. Some say she's "pop". Some say she's "rock". Some Say she's "punk". I usually don't label artists, but I put her under the "good" music.

[Onikage]

[quote name='Morpheus']And I don't care. Some say she's "pop". Some say she's "rock". Some Say she's "punk". I usually don't label artists, but I put her under the "good" music.[/quote]
hey, thats cool, if you like her then cool, rock on, but I don't like her music, so you must except the fact that its my opinion, not yours...

[Morpheus]

I'm just [I]implying[/I] that you shouldn't label artists.

[Onikage]

yah i know its wrong for fans to label artist, but hey its just me. And besides, many people label artist, take greenday for example, they labeled other punk bands as just another wannabes. They even said it on TRL...

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Onikage']yah i know its wrong for fans to label artist, but hey its just me. And besides, many people label artist, take greenday for example, they labeled other punk bands as just another wannabes. They even said it on TRL...[/quote]

[color=darkviolet]and your point would be? So what? On the Vans Warped Tour last year (ie 2004) after Good Charlotte was done playing their set another band came on and asked if the crowd was ready to hear to real punk music. Implying that since Good Charlotte appealed to younger crowds they weren't punk...or maybe it's because more people know Good Charlotte.

I really don't care either way, music is music. Some things I listen to and some things I don't. and Green Day lost some points with me for labeling bands like they did...oh and TRL is an over hyped popularity contest anyways.[/color]

[Onikage]

[QUOTE=ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet]and your point would be? So what? On the Vans Warped Tour last year (ie 2004) after Good Charlotte was done playing their set another band came on and asked if the crowd was ready to hear to real punk music. Implying that since Good Charlotte appealed to younger crowds they weren't punk...or maybe it's because more people know Good Charlotte.

I really don't care either way, music is music. Some things I listen to and some things I don't. and Green Day lost some points with me for labeling bands like they did...oh and TRL is an over hyped popularity contest anyways.[/color][/QUOTE]
Thats not the point, the point is that many people label other bands, you can't change that fact that many people label bands.Try joining a board thats full of Greenday fans, Im pretty sure they'll label Avril or GoodCharlotte as Pop. Or maybe Slipknot, some people don't label them as Metal nor rock, they created their own sound of music. If you think labeling artist is wrong then good for you, you just have to except the fact that some people do...

[Sea Of Chaos666]

I was in the store the other day looking for a Beattles CD [Yes I lisen to oldies to] Anyway this guy was stokeing the shelfs and I Saw the guy pu an Avirl Cd under RAP! When I told him he said "Yeah Iknow Avril is rap I'v heard her music." then he simpley walked away. Last time I cheked Avirl was nat RAP!

[Annie]

[color=darkslategray]True, Avril is not rap; she's pop.

Anyway, punk being dead? Sure. If someone can throw me a band that they think is punk, I'll listen to your plee. I feel punk is dead. Every time I turn around to hear these so-called punk bands, I just hear the same exact music. Not. A. Single. Difference.

Seriously, I watched MTV2 during their weekly Rock night, and I see a variety of claimed punk bands all playing similar music and messages. The same way with Fuse television, sadly. That was the only place on TV you could go to find good music. Now, it's flooded with these wannabe's like Avril (however you spell her name), Good Charlotte (who used to be really good punk), or emo bands/singers. Emo is a-whole-nother story.

Labeling? Labeling is everywhere, in everything. Everyone is guilty for labeling something. As for bands/singers, it's extremely easy to do. Greenday can be labeled as pop/rock/punk/emo. Avril has been labeled, unfortunately, as punk/rock/pop. Slipknot has been labeled as rock/heavy metal/satanic. There's just no escaping it. I don't find it wrong labeling music, unless it's totally blown out of the water; like Avril and Bowling for Soup.

TRL..yeah, hyped up popularity contest. Always was, always will. [/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Labelling music is fair enough, but it's when you dismiss it because you've falsely applied some label to it that the problem starts.Sure, I don't think Avril is punk, and I don't think Britney is Death-Metal. But when you start to think "Britney song, not listening" or whatever the case may be, then you're being foolish. Appreciate good music for what it is, not for what you claim it is.[/size]

[Semjaza]

As with any genre, you have what's on the surface and what's underneath. Sometimes the better stuff is underneath, sometimes it's not. Certainly there are many breakout artists that deserve it for their hard work and dedication. They deserve to be where they are, regardless of what one may think of their music. There's also groups that are where they are due to marketing and publicity. Whether or not they deserve their positions at the top of merely a matter of opinion, when it comes down to it.

I don't think punk is dead. I don't know what gives anyone in the world the qualification to say that it is or ever was. Since its emergence, it's gone through various phases and incarnations. The wave of anti-establishment mentalities always grows and dies down, but never entirely. When it slowed down in the 70s, it picked up again the 80s and then on again. Going through hardcore, emocore and post punk to whatever else people can come up with. I think it's obvious that each of these three main genres mentioned in the last sentence are quite different in sound, yet they still share some very specific key traits. These traits are not always purely the attitude, but also include the sound itself.

I think, as I've stated so many times, it's important to differentiate between punk as a sound and punk as an ideal. The punk ideal is the idea of anti-establishment and irreverence that affects the attitudes of those immersed in it. However, outside of this, punk itself had a pretty definite sound that was forged out of garage rock (or what's now referred to as garage rock anyway). Punk did not sound like the rock and roll people of the 70s and such were used to and even now a lot of what is classified in the generic container term of "punk" has its own distinctive qualities in terms of simply what it sounds like.

Punk as a sound is really all that is applied to most groups of today, particularly the ones that have chosen to go for a more accessible, radio friendly sound. These groups don't necessarily have to work according to what would fit within the punk ideal. They're simply working with the sound, which I think is something that any band should be free to do. Whether or not the result is something people want to listen to is a whole other story. Do soft pop rock groups have any less right to existance than a hard rocking back reminiscent of the 70s? I don't think so. Why should it be different in this situation?

I've been told many times that bands I classify as punk aren't punk because they don't sing about specific things or act in specific ways. To expect all music in a genre to be about specific topics in terms of writing doesn't make much sense to me. That's more an idea of theme than of genre. When one is writing a music review or impression and says a rock band or whatever else has punk stylings, it's usually not referring to anything beyond the sound and composition. Punk has specified traits, just like any type of music.

Just because a popularized version of what a genre originally was exists doesn't mean that everything else is erased. There are other bands out there. There's nothing stopping people from looking beyond what is supplied to them via commercial radio, where they can easily find out that there still is a punk subculture in terms of both sound [I]and[/I] ideal. I listen to bands that could fit in the "pop punk" category that people throw around as if it was a derrogatory term (hell, the Ramones were pop punk, so I don't know how that's a bad thing).

All music gets pressed into something that's more accessible at some point. Pop punk is here, it's not going to go away and the trend has continued even into emocore, leading to the generic word of "emo" to refer to far more accessible and radio friendly bands than the original emocore label would have ever applied to.

Back in the early 1900s, people would go nuts if a ballet orchestration or image didn't comply to what they demanded/expected ballets should be. It's not much different now. Things need to change in order to evolve, in the process probably becoming more acceptable to the general public, but there is always going to be something different and unique bubbling around somewhere.

The ideal of punk itself is something basic to the human condition, I think. There's always going to be free thinkers, people who have problems with authority and whatever else. It existed before punk and it will exist for as long as we do. How that ideal can die, I have no idea. Even when it doesn't seem to be at the forefront, it's still there. The sound itself will exist as long as people continue to play music with the right aural elements, really.

As of right now, both aspects are alive and likely will continue to be for a long time. These bands that fit into both of these areas of punk still are out there and they're plentiful, largely on smaller labels most of us have never even heard of. I certainly listen to groups that I feel fit into both the sound and ideal and they've been around for many of the years people have called this a "dead" genre.

If you're not going to try to hunt them out, then I don't know how a real conclusion can be made to the contrary.

That was rambly and repetitive, but whatever. As for Avril, she herself has claimed many times she isn't "punk". She kind of just attempts to dress what people have grouped into its image for various reasons. Simply claiming to do something that you're not doing is hardly going "against the system". If that were true, anyone that defied anything in any remote way would fit in the category. Adopting an image for no real clear reason while it's at the height of its popularity isn't anti-establishment or anti anything. I don't know why Drix continues to push this idea, other than to annoy people who like to jump to conclusions lol.

I'm also taking annoyance with comments on how people are too young to know what this or that is. If a younger kid likes the Ramones or whatever else (and it's not like anyone in their mid-twenties would have any memorable real life experience with the Ramones at their beginnings anyway), good for them. I'm told this same thing by people twice my age who existed when some of my favorite artists were at their prime and I wasn't even born yet. Yet I know more about them and listen to them more often. What's the comparison here? What in the world does age have to do with anything besides giving you the opportunity to say you were alive when it happened? Pretty much nothing. No one should really give a damn unless you happened to be directly involved in some way.

People need better reasons to dislike bands, basically. I don't dislike Good Charlotte because I don't think they fit to my definiton of the punk ideal, but because I think they have completely awful, self-defeating and unsuccessful lyrics and uninspired playing. Why someone should hate them for any other reason, I have no idea.

[sakurasuka]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][SIZE=1][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]Seriously... There are enough people out there who think 'Punk' is cool like to try to act as 'punk' as possible. They have as much a right as you or me. Me? I haven't yet found a band that labels themselves 'punk' that I've truly disliked, but I don't REALLY consider myself punk. I love punk rock. I personally like Good Charlotte. They've given me no reason to think otherwise. (They're just a coupla kids trying to get a point across. And they're pretty good, too.) Avril really is just an Alanis re-make, but I don't mind her. (I love Alanis, though.) I have her new CD and I like most of the songs... Not really an Avril fan, and I DO NOT label her as punk seeing as that would be a discrace to punk. I also listen to SOME pop-ish stuff, hence: Avril. I like heavy metal, but I really don't listen to any one genera more than the next. I love rock as well. You don't have to label yourself or anyone else as 'punk' or as 'posers' because, my friend, the only posers are those who label others as such. (In my opinion) Punk and not punk is not for you to decide, it is in the mind of the majority, the so-called 'posers' who look at you and me and think 'What a poser.' In the end, the the ones who DISCRACED the name are the ones who LABEL it. (If that made any sense whatsoever.)[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[boxybrown305]

[QUOTE=TOTALIMMORTAL][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkRed] As much as I'd like to deny it and wish it wasn't true, what was once punk is now honestly dead. I consider myself "punk" but most people probably wouldn't deem me so because I don't exactly dress like all the other people who do think they are. I listen to Classic Rock, Heavy Metal, Hard Rock, and of course, Punk. But this isn't about me. I think music keeps changing too much to stay popular with the times, and that's not what music should be about. And especially not Punk Rock. Punk Rock used to actually mean something back in the day, people either loved it or hated it. Now it's actually a [B]FREAKIN CLOTHING STYLE[/B]?!!! :flaming:

I hate that. Way too many kids these days wear a Misfits shirt or something and haven't even heard a single song by them. Punk is sure as hell not about popularity, but thanks to places like Hot Topic, everybody's got a freakin studded belt and a Ramones shirt. Hot Topic is the Anti-Christ to what actually used to mean something. As much as I love Punk Rock, I can honestly say that places like Hot Topic, and those stupid "pop" punk bands like Good Charlotte, have brought about the demise of punk. Bands these days just keep becoming less and less musically talented, and more and more sing-along. Does anybody feel the same way as me, that punk has become way too popular and means practically nothing anymore? I wish it weren't so, but Punk Rock is either Six Feet Under or somewhere close to it.....[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]WOW, you're ABSOLUTELY right! I've known this for quite a while, and it is truly disgusting. I too am a fan of punk music, though it is stricly the MUSIC i love, and even that has to be defined these days...

Stupid wannabes like Good Charollette, New Found Glory, Simple Plan, Blink-182 and even... Ashlee ********ing Simpson (excuse me while i vomit in rage):flaming: claim to be "punk."

[B]A list of actually good punk music...[/B]

[B]The Who[/B]- now they really aren't punk, but many punk bands openly admit that they were inspiration.[B]
The Velvet Underground[/B]- this is the same case as the who...
[B]The Rammones[/B]- the ORIGINAL punk band, controversially the first
[B]The Clash[/B]- old school like the rammones, though a "more punk" attitude in the lyrics
[B]Sex Pistols[/B]- punk in its most pure form. just guys wailing on their instruments (with basic rithyms), and screaming about anarchy and what not
[B]Bad Brains[/B]- i havent heard much of them, but definately real punk...
[B]Black Flag[/B]- pretty similar to sex pistols (the name "black flag" is litterally a universal symbol of anarchy and punk in general), they just sing about beer, sex, etc... your average punk band
[B]Dead Kennedey's[/B]- more of the good old punk at work
[B]The Misfits[/B]- any punk list would not be complete without mentioning this demonic group of punks...

Basically, the only new band these days that you can accurately define as punk (REAL PUNK) is Rancid. Pretty much a harder, wilder version of the Clash.

Again, this is what real punk is, and i do unfortunately agree that punk in our day is dead. But hey, the true punks that still exist can show off their pride the way it was meant to be shown even in the golden age of punk... beating the s**t out of dumb poser wannabes! :devil: [/COLOR]

[elfpirate]

[b]If you're strictly speaking about punk music, I'd have to say you're terribly wrong about punk being dead. There is a myriad of excellent punk bands out there-- they're just a little harder to find than the pop-punk crap (and yes, my opinion is that it's crap, as far as the "punk genre" is concerned-- some of it may be good music, but it ain't punkrock).[/b]

[b]Okay--maybe it's a lot harder to find... but it's there.[/b]

[b]As far as the punkrock lifestyle goes, what makes you a punk is how you live your life, what ideals you hold on to, etc...[/b]

[b]I won't refer to myself as a punk... (though I am pretty damned punkrock as far as my attitudes about things go and the way I live my life).[/b]

[b]I don't like being called a punk, though, because it dredges up images of thoughtless, criminal drones who rebel against everything (and therefore nothing) or those poser types: the I-don't-know-who-the-hell-I-am-but-punk-is-fashionable-so-I'll-be-that-for-a-month types of people. I don't want to be stuck in either one of those schemas.[/b]

[b]Either way-- I'd say that punk isn't dead... and I'd even say it's [i]thriving[/i]. [/b]

[b]You just have to find out where the true punks are in your community and you'll find both excellent punkrock music, excellent punkrock people, and everything else punkrock that your little heart desires.[/b]

[b]You have to be willing to go underground to find something that's underground by nature.[/b]

[Semjaza]

It's funny that people cry out so much about pop punk and then hail the Sex Pistols. I like the Sex Pistols (their main three albums anyway), but without Rotten they wouldn't have been nearly what they are. He came up with the whole "hey, let's piss everyone off!" idea to the point that it was more an image than anything else, the same thing people cite as something that pisses them off about current pop punk bands. Hell, Sid Vicious couldn't even play his damn instrument.

I'd still say that considering their two and a half years of existance (well, other than that stupid "reunion") they sure did a hell of a lot of damage to England's collective psyche lol.

The Sex Pistols are really where this whole "anarchy" idea came from, which ironically was not from The Ramones (despite them being the first punk group). Considering these things were hardly even ideals held by The Ramones in the first place, I'm not sure why it is considered a requirement. I LOVE The Ramones, but I'd be hardpressed to say they wrote much that wasn't basic and, for lack of a better word, idiotic. The Ramones were more about the simple four chord sound (very against rock trends at the time), which really gives even more credence to that whole sound versus ideal thing, I think.

[boxybrown305]

[QUOTE=Generic NPC #3]It's funny that people cry out so much about pop punk and then hail the Sex Pistols. I like the Sex Pistols (their main three albums anyway), but without Rotten they wouldn't have been nearly what they are. He came up with the whole "hey, let's piss everyone off!" idea to the point that it was more an image than anything else, the same thing people cite as something that pisses them off about current pop punk bands. Hell, Sid Vicious couldn't even play his damn instrument.

I'd still say that considering their two and a half years of existance (well, other than that stupid "reunion") they sure did a hell of a lot of damage to England's collective psyche lol.

The Sex Pistols are really where this whole "anarchy" idea came from, which ironically was not from The Ramones (despite them being the first punk group). Considering these things were hardly even ideals held by The Ramones in the first place, I'm not sure why it is considered a requirement. I LOVE The Ramones, but I'd be hardpressed to say they wrote much that wasn't basic and, for lack of a better word, idiotic. The Ramones were more about the simple four chord sound (very against rock trends at the time), which really gives even more credence to that whole sound versus ideal thing, I think.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]What you say is true. Despite Ramones being one of the first punk bands, they weren't at all about anarchy. The ideals are kind of just half of what makes punk "punk." The punk theory is centered on anarchy, and represented through bands like Sex Pistols, Black Flag, or Dead Kennedey's to name a few. But then punk rock, strictly in the musical sense is also a sort of protest against all the complex rock. Punk doesn't involve any solos or anything like that because it is just about three basic chords repeated. That's why Ramones fit the category, not for their message necessarily, but their music.

But then in the mid 80's the concept of anarchy essentially crumbled. This is what people mean by punk is dead. Punk, in the mainstream sense (which is an oxymoron, the reason why it's so bad), is mostly just about the fashion. That's not to say that the spirit of true punk is dead. It's as alive as the true punks make it. The only difference is that with the "fall" of anarchy, punk has moved to a new era of politics. Examples like Anti-Flag, Green Day, and Rancid Resemble this. It's still punk, and not bad punk either, people just abuse for the purpose of fashion, thus punk is dead.

And earlier i said that the only good new punk is Rancid, well i take that back. there are others like The Distillers, The Cassualties, etc...[/COLOR]

[Semjaza]

I don't understand this concept, though. I get that people feel punk is "dead" because the apparent main ideal behind it has fallen apart, although I don't feel it ever fully eroded (and even the ideal is arguable with stuff like the Ramones and their ancestors, as I've stated).

I don't feel this idea is dead. The fact that the mainstream has developed a stranglehold on the genre is of no importance and, if anything, should really incite more groups and people to be even more rebellious. The fact of the matter is that the Ramones were always largely underground compared to other sounds of the time (and even the Sex Pistols, who were practically a movement) and that carries on to today. A large portion of the best rock that stays true the same counter culture movement is still largely an underground thing, through the idea that very, very little of it is on any sort of remotely large label. I don't think this makes it right out "dead", per se, but more hidden and covered.

If one takes this route, then I don't understand why people don't get equally upset about rock music. Rock was just as counterculture as punk was, if not more so since there was even more to go against earlier in the century. Yet, despite only being in existance maybe 25 years prior to punk, I don't know of anyone that gets upset to the core of their being with some soft rock group that sings about love makes it somewhere. I don't see why this should be any more accepted, but it is.

To me it just makes the whole concept somewhat ridiculous. If one is not willing to find what else is out there, then anything can be "dead" to someone. The recent punk "revival" isn't something I think was meant to revive the "dead", but was more of a need to get away from the sounds that were typical in the 80s and 90s that replaced punk as a major movement. Punk, obviously had to grow up in many senses and I do agree with the idea that other politics have overwritten the idea of pure anarchy, but anarchy never works to begin with. I think it's just gotten smarter lol.

Punk died down, it never died. That's my opinion anyway. I guess this could be argued in perpituity, though.