Guest spike123 Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 why are so many people against gays i dont get it someone i know is gay and they cant do any thing becuse there being stomped on all the time i think is rediculos just becuse they pefer the same gender dosnt mean we have the right to exclude them THER PEOPLE TOO :angry2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adahn Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Welcome to America, where you can have your personal opinion on any minority and band together to bash said minorities in blissful recompense for their mortal sins. Essentially, not putting my own opinion into anything, what is popular will be practiced. If the majority of people don't like gay people, then the majority of people don't like gay people. That may or may not change, but one thing is true. Everyone has a choice (no, I am NOT saying people can choose whether to be gay or not), and choices have consequences. Your friendly neighborhood gay person can flaunt his/her homosexuality and get bashed, or he/she can keep his/her personal life to him/herself and live relatively well. If a person can't control how he/she acts, then, he/she can join the club. Nobody has complete control over everything dictating their lives, one can only try to influence it for the better of themselves and those around them. I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem. Here's a newsflash; we all have problems. It is only those that can be sympathized with on a massive scale that are brought into the limelight(sp?) here in America. I say this to everyone in existence. To each his own, whatever that may imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiMuneMune Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 *agrees with Adahn* America is one of the most embarrassing places. (In my opinion) The parents shove all this prejudice into their children and they go and act it out in everyday life. I'm bisexual and I get ridiculed everyday just for being bi. Nothing else. BUT, for gay/lesbian/bi people, it is hard to lead this 'double-life' and act straight in one scenario and then act gay/lesbain/bi in a different scenario. I mean, I had to live it out for years until I came out to my friends. It backfired on me and I paid for it. But I don't have a problem with people who don't respect people's sexuality-it's just that try and look at it from their point of view. It's hard. Whatever floats your boat I guess. : \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sui Generis Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [COLOR=Indigo]I really don't think its that Americans just hate people and are trying to put you down, as some people have said/believe. First off, anyone who doesn't know is should probably be shot, I mean look at me. I fall under that "categroy" 100% and I don't care about it. The simple fact is; its culture. Some cultures eat other people, yet (most) cultures are against. In the way people were brought up in America, and our culture, states that homosexuality is weird, and shouldn't be expressed. Look at many religions, a lot of them don't condone it. Its not that there is any degredation that is being attempted, the simple fact is: its what they know. If I was born and taught to hate black people (For example) it would take a hell of a lot to change otherways. Thats why there is more acceptance, but not as much as we'd like to see. Its a process, people have to get used to the idea, people have to realize we are the same besides on tiny issue, and they have to teach it. You can't expect a whole culture to change its views immediatly. [/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavalamp Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Adahn']Welcome to America[/quote] Thanks. [quote]Your friendly neighborhood gay person can flaunt his/her homosexuality and get bashed, or he/she can keep his/her personal life to him/herself and live relatively well.[/quote] The conflict is whether or not a homosexual should have to hide what they essentially are to avoid discrimination. I, being gay, don't think that should be a choice I need to make. While I'm personally not into flying rainbows and elaborate gay pride parades, I do agree with the message the people who do take part are trying to send. [quote]Nobody has complete control over everything dictating their lives, one can only try to influence it for the better of themselves and those around them.[/quote] So what you're fundamentally saying is living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry. [quote]I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem.[/quote] But when people who don't agree with who I'm sleeping with go out of their way to cause problems [i]for[/i] me, they're...? [quote]It is only those that can be sympathized with on a massive scale that are brought into the limelight(sp?) here in America.[/quote] Here is a newsflash: it is in the limelight, and I think it will stay there until change on a "massive scale" is seen. Your tone is almost one of disbelief. Homosexuals are a minority, yes, but I don't think you realize how large of one they are exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adahn Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Ok, now, let me get something straight. The original question was, "Why do gay people get bashed?" My answer was, "Because most people don't like gay people." If you'll read through my post, you'll see I'm not making any assumptions or stating any of my opinions. You can dig through what I said and try to find what I meant, but here's something for you to consider. [I]maybe I said what I meant[/I] . I believe I answered the original question, and I don't deserve to have my post nitpicked, and I certainly don't appreciate opinions being drawn out of it. If you look at my post again with the thought that I support your cause, I will seem to be supporting your cause. You are the one who is passing judgments and discriminating against me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epitome Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [size=1]I dont think its a fact on whether they like gay people or not I think its more on the basis of thinking of having sex with someone of the same sex, if that makes sense. Its mainly for guys. I have alot of gay friends, and they are no different from me, but people who dont know them think that if I talked to him or her, theyll hit on me, and thats just wrong... But thats not true. With all the gay friends I have, I have never been hit on by one of them because they know Im not gay. So I think that people "bash" gays because of the fact that they might "have feelings" for them.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godelsensei Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I've always figured it's for the same reason that people are racist. People get some sort of ego-boost out of discriminating against a minority. No one should have to keep things like who they happen to be on a date with shut up indoors just because some one else finds it makes them "uncomfortable."[/FONT][/COLOR] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavalamp Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [quote name='Adahn]Ok, now, let me get something straight. The original question was, "Why do gay people get bashed?" My answer was, "Because most people don't like gay people." If you'll read through my post, you'll see I'm not making any assumptions or stating any of my opinions. You can dig through what I said and try to find what I meant, but here's something for you to consider. [I]maybe I said what I meant[/I'] . I believe I answered the original question, and I don't deserve to have my post nitpicked, and I certainly don't appreciate opinions being drawn out of it. If you look at my post again with the thought that I support your cause, I will seem to be supporting your cause. You are the one who is passing judgments and discriminating against me.[/quote] Opinions were "drawn" because I was interested in more about what you felt about the issue. I wasn't "nitpicking" your post. I was separating various parts of it so replying would be easier. I'm not discriminating against anyone, or calling you wrong on any platform. Becoming defensive about a developing discussion really proves you're not as comfortable about what you're talking about as what you would like us to believe, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adahn Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 [QUOTE=lava lamp] So what you're fundamentally saying is living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry. But when people who don't agree with who I'm sleeping with go out of their way to cause problems [i]for[/i] me, they're...? Here is a newsflash: it is in the limelight, and I think it will stay there until change on a "massive scale" is seen. Your tone is almost one of disbelief. Homosexuals are a minority, yes, but I don't think you realize how large of one they are exactly.[/QUOTE] Ok, let's have a look at your "reply". 1. I said living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry. 2. I left out that it was people who were causing problems for homosexuals. 3. I am in disbelief at all the oppression faced by them, and I don't realize that there are lots of homosexuals. How exactly is this not a personal attack? Am I wrong to go on the defensive? I apparently didn't explain myself well enough, so I'll try again. I said that people have a choice as to how they live their lives, knowing full well the consequences. Supporting a cause can seem to be honorable, especially when you are oppressed and you believe you are right. I thought I made it clear that it was other people who were doing all the oppressing, but you pointed out that I had not, when I had. That's the whole point of the thread, people causing problems for homosexuals, and you take a part of what I wrote and say that I missed that little detail? I do know that there are many homosexuals, in fact, there are tons here on campus. A few days ago it was National Coming Out Day or something, and it was celebrated on campus, and it made the front page of the campus newspaper. So, yes, I think I do understand that there are many, many homosexuals. You wanted to find out exactly what I meant, and I'll say it again. (tries using bold letters this time) [B]Maybe I said what I meant.[/B] You say that my being defensive shows how uncomfortable I am? I'm very obviously being attacked, and I'm doing what comes naturally (covers his head and flees in terror). And no, I'm not uncomfortable talking about it. And yes, I do have an opinion, but I have chosen not to state it. If you want it, ask for it. Else, sit in the dark, because I'll shed no further light on my beliefs to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinna Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 I don't know why people are so prejiduce about gay's. Some people even think that gay people are just acting to be different :confuse2:. I told one of my friends that i am bi and she thought i was trying to gross her out :confused:. Though i do agree that it isn't right to bash on gay's for being who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drix D'Zanth Posted October 19, 2004 Share Posted October 19, 2004 Homosexuality *thinks*. Hey, live your lives the way you want to. March in your parades, live in your houses, have gay sex! I don?t give a damn. What they do behind closed doors is their business. I?m not going to indoctrinate a gay person on my ethical values if they leave my ethics alone. I love watching MTV?s the Real World for that purpose. They love to throw in a gay person, and a strangely unreceptive straight person in the same house JUST to see the conflict (Disclaimer: MTVs the real world does not, in most fashions reflect reality, please take what I say with a grain of salt). Most of the time it ends up with the gay person indoctrinating the straight person that gay people are really just like the rest of us and there?s no reason to hold any prejudice against them. Do I tolerate gay people? Well.. I don?t see why anyone shouldn?t tolerate gay people. Do I accept gay people? I guess, they live their lives on their own.. I?m not changing anything about their lifestyle. Do I agree with gay people? I don?t agree with their lifestyle, no. I don?t think homosexuality is [i]natural[/i] or [i]right[/i]. I don?t need anyone telling me that it [b]is[/b] right. Is homosexuality a choice? Yes and no. If you pardon the severity of my analogy; does anyone [i]choose[/i] to be schizophrenic? Doubt it? Is there any genetic connection related to schizophrenia? I don?t believe there is. That?s kind of how I look at homosexuality. One?s psychology really determines the sexual orientation. Does it have genetic or biological reasoning behind it? Nope. ?So what?? I say to myself. And I?m right. So what indeed. I?m going to regard homosexuality as a perversion, but I?ll regard [i]the[/i] homosexual as any other human being. Even Christians are capable of this; love the sinner not the sin. I may be wrong, but last I checked you really cant ?discriminate against? anything. You can discriminate between two things (the paper is white, the ink is black)? but holding preference of one over the other would be ?prejudice? or ?bigotry?. Our vernacular is warping a pretty indifferent word into something horribly political.. a shame really. I hope we don?t blow this ?oppression? issue out of proportion. Last I checked, it was legal to have a homosexual partner?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavalamp Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [quote name='Adahn']I thought I made it clear that it was other people who were doing all the oppressing, but you pointed out that I had not, when I had. That's the whole point of the thread, people causing problems for homosexuals, and you take a part of what I wrote and say that I missed that little detail?[/quote] "I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem." That was your original comment. My response was in regard to that, not the overall point of your post (which isn't a very strong one, might I add). To claim you're pointing out that other people are doing "all of the oppressing" after coming to the conclusion that, basically, problems a homosexual faces in relation to that homosexual's sexuality whatsoever are the result of that homosexual [b]having[/b] a problem is a clear contradiction. [quote]You wanted to find out exactly what I meant, and I'll say it again. (tries using bold letters this time) [B]Maybe I said what I meant.[/B] You say that my being defensive shows how uncomfortable I am? I'm very obviously being attacked, and I'm doing what comes naturally (covers his head and flees in terror). And no, I'm not uncomfortable talking about it. And yes, I do have an opinion, but I have chosen not to state it.[/quote] First of all, I would like to say that message boards exist so people can discuss. I was never attacking you. The sentence that led you to that conclusion seems to be: "So what you're fundamentally saying is living a lie is an acceptable solution to bigotry." By replying in that manner, I wasn't attacking your character. Nothing in any of my posts in this thread have done so. That sentence existed only to provide a platform from which you could agree, or disagree and elaborate on how exactly I was misunderstanding you. You still haven't addressed the point of that sentence, and I would like it if you could. [QUOTE]If you want it, ask for it. Else, sit in the dark, because I'll shed no further light on my beliefs to you.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure it's understood that when someone replies to something you post on a message board, it's generally meant to provoke some sort of reply on your part. Indirectly you were asked to explain on the fragments of your post I found confusing or disagreed with. You still haven't done that. If you aren't willing to explain yourself, and communicate on a rational level, which, in being defensive, I don't think you are, then why are you posting anything at all on forums to begin with? It seems masochistic. There is a huge line between disagreeing with something someone said in a civil way and attacking them on a personal level. I don't feel I crossed that line. [quote name='Drix D'Zanth']but holding preference of one over the other would be ?prejudice? or ?bigotry?. Our vernacular is warping a pretty indifferent word into something horribly political.. a shame really.[/quote] According to [url]http://www.dictionary.com/[/url], to discriminate [i]against[/i] something is "To make distinctions on the basis of class or category without regard to individual merit; show preference or prejudice: [i]was accused of discriminating against women; discriminated in favor of his cronies.[/i]" When someone discriminates [i]against[/i] something, there is that implied alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adahn Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 I have a feeling I'm going to have to do this with all my posts... [quote name='Adahn']Welcome to America, where you can have your personal opinion on any minority and band together to bash said minorities in blissful recompense for their mortal sins.[/quote] This expresses my displeasure at the general mean-spiritidness that plagues our country, and introduces the thought that such things are out of our hands. [QUOTE=Adahn] Essentially, not putting my own opinion into anything, what is popular will be practiced.[/QUOTE] This is me saying that majority rules, and saying that I'll try not to let my personal opinions interfere with my point. [QUOTE=Adahn] If the majority of people don't like gay people, then the majority of people don't like gay people.[/QUOTE] This supports the topic of my paragraph (though I generally don't give a rats *** about paragraphs or topic sentences). It further emphasizes that the popular opinion of the people is out of the control of anything which would wish to control it (except for maybe the media). [QUOTE=Adahn] That may or may not change, but one thing is true. Everyone has a choice (no, I am NOT saying people can choose whether to be gay or not), and choices have consequences.[/QUOTE] This, I thought, was pretty self-explanatory. Everyone has the ability to make decisions (I hope), and recognize that certain events (consequences) may result from them. [QUOTE=Adahn] Your friendly neighborhood gay person can flaunt his/her homosexuality and get bashed, or he/she can keep his/her personal life to him/herself and live relatively well.[/QUOTE] This means nothing more than it says. Homosexuals choose how they display their homosexuality, and choosing to expose their feelings to the public will generally be met with open hostility. However, most people keep their relationships to themselves (heterosexuals, too), and those that can't help but display their love can expect consequences, too, though they may not be as harsh as the consequences for homosexuals. Let me repeat myself. This means nothing more than it says. It is just an expansion on the earlier point that actions have consequences, and the "rightness" of the actions does not protect someone from the consequences. (take Jesus, for example) [QUOTE=Adahn] If a person can't control how he/she acts, then, he/she can join the club. Nobody has complete control over everything dictating their lives, one can only try to influence it for the better of themselves and those around them.[/QUOTE] This supports, yes, another point previously made. This stresses the inability of an individual to control what happens to him/her. This inability is what makes it impossible for a homosexual to say, "Leave me alone." and expect everyone to go, "Ok." and stop pestering him/her for the rest of his/her life. If it is better for someone to put oneself in a difficult position to support a point, then that individual shouldn't complain about the consequences that come, because be they right or wrong, they knew the consequences. For example, if I decided to start an anti-children campaign, I would be looked down upon, no matter how strong my hate for children and love for everything unchildlike. I would do better to sit in my dorm room and make little voodoo dolls of children out of onions and squish them or poke them with pointy things. If, however, someone wants to attempt to live a normal life actively participating in something seen unacceptable to the greater human population, then they will still be looked upon unfavorably. This is just another consequence to another action. It doesn't really matter what the purpose behind the action is, the action is an action and consequences will result from it. [QUOTE=Adahn] I'm not saying being gay is wrong, but I'm also not saying it's right. [/QUOTE] This is me not saying being gay is right. This is also me not saying being gay is wrong. [QUOTE=Adahn] If it causes problems for an individual, then, that individual has a problem. Here's a newsflash; we all have problems.[/QUOTE] This explains that everybody has their own problems, and that everyone sort of has the same life. You can't say your problems are worse than anyone else's, because you don't have their problems, and you cope with your problems differently than other people cope with theirs. If there's a boy hungry in a 3rd world country, does that make his problem worse than anyone else's? That boy is probably such a hardass that if we were put into the same situation, we'd die and he'd go living another 30 years. People have their own distinct lives and problems, and learn to deal with them like any other human being. [QUOTE=Adahn] It is only those that can be sympathized with on a massive scale that are brought into the limelight(sp?) here in America. I say this to everyone in existence. To each his own, whatever that may imply.[/QUOTE] If lots of people get together, they can ***** about their problem until they are heard. This is a good thing! If lots of people have the same problem, that makes it more important than anyone else's problems! Wait a minute...If anything, homosexuals are lucky to have a chance to band together and deal with it together. I have my own problems (not really), and I wish I could get people together to ***** with me! I'm hungry, and I want a sandwich! (forms the organization M.F.M.D.S aka Men for the Mass Distribution of Sandwiches). I wouldn't trade my problems for anyone else's, and I hope nobody else would trade theirs, either. Our struggles are what make us who we are, and distinguish ourselves among other human beings. Oh, and I'm sorry lava lamp. I wanted to try to make an unopinionated post, and in my frustration at my failure, I vented it out on you. Now that I've made myself clear (or at least verbose), feel free to comment on anything that tickles your fancy (can't believe he just said that and wonders why he didn't delete it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [size=1]Opression on Gays? I'm afraid I don't understand the question... But, really, it's pretty obvious, isn't it. For...well, hundreds of years [perhaps even thousands] homosexuality has been looked down upon, and homosexuals have been ostracised. But, nowadays most people are relatively tolerant of it. They'd just prefer not to know whether you're gay. Most people don't try to drag their sex life around for everyone to see, and neither should you. The thing is, there is a difference between being gay and being [i]gay[/i]. Nobody should have to completely hide themselves, but discretion is a wonderful virtue ~_^ And what you may not realise, is that the 'gay-bashers' are the minority. There are probably less 'gay-bashers' than gays. One or two vicious, isolated incidents, and every straight person is a raging anti-gay rioter. I'm not condoning it, but it's not as bad as you think.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Breaker Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 The way I see it, the only reason people hate Gays is becouse it is human nature to hate things that you dont understand. Simply, that means that the people who hates gays are... really really STUPID! It means they have nothing better to do but put people down, they are just stupid ignorant basterds. Frankly, I am not biggeted (Except againts the french! ((Only the Quebecer French, not France French, since Quebecers are ********)) (((Did I mention i'm a frnech Quebecer?))). When I see gay people, I just see people (though with better hair) just as I see everybody else. In fact, I hate people who are gay bashers, (Becouse they are stupid) and I hate stupid people. I once beat the crap out of a group of guys bashing up a gay guy, and I got in ****, but it was worth it. Super sense of satisfaction for beating up a bunch of retarted biggits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Samedi Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [size=1]Alriiiight... Now who's being small-minded? Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions...it is when they start to impinge on others that things get screwy. People who hate gays aren't necessarily stupid, you know.[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChibiHorsewoman Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [color=darkviolet]WHy is there oppresion on gay people? Because in this country you can watch Jerry Springer and take your kid to gun shows and no one bats an eye, but Jaquie and Trina try to register for Noritake china and everyone goes ape ****. I think the most reasonable response for this is that people are afraid of things that are different and sometimes a reaction to fear is anger and violence. Need more proof, look at how some people in Russia are reacting to the muslims in their country due to the school attack last month. Nobody has it easy. It's not just Americans though. I was watching on the news this morning that the Anglican church in Europe is asking the Episcipalian (same church different name)church in America to appologize for appointing an openly gay bishop. So, see it's not just us. But not all people who practice mainstream religion are against homosexuals. In Rochester a few years back we had a catholic priest who performed gay marriages. Sure, he was ex communcicated in the end, but he did what he thought was right and tried to get people to hate less and love more. Besides, the Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments towards heterosexuals. Don't you think that means that the heterosexuals need more guidance? Look, in a perfect world nobody would be trying to make one absolute definition of marriage and nobody would give a damn about what the other person looked like or what they did 30 years ago. But this isn't a perfect world so until everyone stops being stupid that's just what's going to happen.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrist cutter Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [quote name='ChibiHorsewoman']Besides, the Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments towards heterosexuals. Don't you think that means that the heterosexuals need more guidance?[/quote] No, because the 362 admonishments apply not only to heterosexuals but homosexuals as well, whereas the 6 admonishments to homosexuals are specific to them. I think the better way to apply this statistic would be "There are only 6 admonishments to homosexuality in the entire Bible. So why is it on the top of some people's list?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinewoodpine Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 I think it's all in the culture and what you've learned while you are growing up. As well as influences from other things. Some may teach you that gays are acceptable whil other cultures may oppose to it. If you've been taught to hate all and every single homosexuality in the whole universe, I think it's possible that you will be really hating gays and lesbians alike... But it's also possible that you will accept it... Some are trying to be very open though... At least they are 'trying'. Everything is just possibilities though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 [color=#707875]The problem with Biblical references, though, is that the Bible says a lot of things that most Christians would disagree with. I was reading an article a while ago which actually listed some of the very bizarre "laws" in there. Unfortunately though, people will selectively pick and choose what to go along with and what to ignore. I think the answer is simple. People hate what they don't understand, whether it is someone of a different gender, sexual orientation, race, culture, religion, [insert stuff here]. Oftentimes, people will use religion to justify what is otherwise an irrational hatred. The Ku Klux Klan and groups of their ilk [i]also[/i] cite the Bible and other sources to support and justify their views on racial integration. So the fact is, people will find a justification for any kind of thought or action. What matters, I think, is overcoming those things and trying to empathize with one another, rather than focus on the differences and using them as divisive tools. Anyway, I think that this question has pretty much been answered. Thanks to everyone for their views.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts