Questioning Christianity

[Adahn]

What makes people sure of an afterlife, if we cannot experience it? And since we've had so much talk about this "afterlife", where's the "beforelife?" Here's an idea. Maybe there's just life. No after, no before, just different stages.

"Then what happens to us when we die, Mr. Adahn?"

Well, what happened to you the last time you died?

"I've never died!"

How can you be so sure? Can you look into the past beyond when you were born? Would you have any way of knowing?

"I was born, my life began. Eventually, my life will end."

What if your life didn't begin when you were born? Maybe it began when your soul was born.

"My soul was born with my body, both were created at the same time, and those two things make me what I am today!"

Hmm, so your soul had a beginning, then? Well, let me introduce you to one of the laws that everything follows. Everything that has a beginning has an end. It is indisputable, and applicable to everything. How can you say your soul had a beginning and be so confident that it will not end?

"Umm..."

The way I see it, you have two choices. Either your soul was born and your soul will die, or your soul always was and always will be.

"Then what does happen to my soul when I die?"

You live another life with the same heart and mind, but a different body. The same eternal soul that has always been in you driving everything you do.

"That kinda sucks..."

Yes, it does kinda suck. So, there has to be an end to this cycle, right?

"There'd better be *crosses arms*"

If all lives are lived within this realm, what makes you think perfection can't be reached without death?

"Everybody dies! Even Jesus died!"

Jesus lives within us all, and he has the power to save us from death. He did what needed to be done 2,000 years ago, he saved us, but we won't accept that. We ask for forgiveness when we have already been forgiven, and punish ourselves with death. Yes, we bring it upon ourselves.

"So, what do we have to do to stop dying?"

Accept that death was done away with 2,000 years ago. Live with Jesus in this world, not reaching for some distant sky, because this sky is the only one we can live under. If you accept that you are going to die and deny everthing that He did to save us, then you will die. If you have faith in that Jesus saved us, then open your arms and your heart and embrace salvation, because it all happens here.

Here's an afterthought. Were men created to die? What would have happened to Adam and Eve had they not sinned? I believe that sin is what separated us from God and brought death upon us. Had Adam and Eve stayed faithful, they would never had died.

"But if they don't die, how can the get to heaven?"

They were together with God, they were in heaven. When we sinned, God left the earth because it was infected with sin, which it had never been before. I ask you, what did Jesus do?

"He died for us. He died for our sins!"

If he died for our sins, then why should we have to die? If he has taken them from us, then we should be as Adam and Eve were before they sinned. We should be immortal.

"Well, then why aren't we immortal if Jesus already took away our sins?"

This is where Christians almost have it right. They say that one needs to accept Jesus' forgiveness to be saved and go to heaven.

"Lots of people have accepted Jesus, including me."

Wrong. You all deny that your sins were taken away by welcoming death, which He took from us. You have accepted nothing from him, only stuck with your unshakeable faith in death, which should never have existed. What is armageddon, which has become such a popular topic? It is the transformation of Earth into Heaven, as it was meant to be. The end of the world will come, but only to the world as we know it.

I'd like to know what any of you think. And yes, I did post this on a different thread, but I deleted that post (which had no replies) and felt it would be best if I gave the subject it's own topic. If this is at all inappropriate, I ask only for a reasonable explanation before the thread is closed.

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Well, it sounds like you are some kind of Christian-Bhuddist hybrid. Hey, if you came up with all that Nirvana-esque philosophy all yourself, that's just awesome. However, I'm not seeing the point.

Are you just questioning Christianity on certain points? Again, perfectly awesome to question a religion, but it sounds like you are just announcing your views on things and not really backing it up much.

You could just go to your local bishop and ask them about their stance on reincarnation. Christians don't believe it in, plain and simple (resurrection is different). Umm... yeah, there's really not much more to go on. If your logic on that stance is just, "Well, how can you know?" that's a moot point that can work either way. I can toss that argument right back at you: " How do you know we were born multiple times to different bodies?"

Again, I think your local bishop has a better conceptual design supporting his view on it.

As for your ideas on the soul and the human body, I don't follow. A life is something a creature lives, not a soul. To say that someone's life began when their soul was supposedly created is really illogical. Now you have to explain how ethereal souls are bound to the same physical laws as corporeal bodies are, and yet, somehow, immune to a select few of those laws (i.e., death).

And as for your idea that everything has a beginning and an ending, that's true for things bound to this dimension's physical laws, but can the same be said of other dimensions and of God? To say that God is Himself bound to what he created (in this case, time), is going to be hard to argue if you are using the Christian (and a few other) definitions of Him. To put it simply, God transcends time and space.

As for the whole "Why did Jesus die?" thing, again, consult your local bishop about the relevance of his death to the Holy Trinity. My order of events for the Holy Trinity is hazy, since I'm not exactly a follower of the religion in question, but death is very important in the whole thing.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Delta]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]
[quote name='Adahn']Hmm, so your soul had a beginning, then? Well, let me introduce you to one of the laws that everything follows. Everything that has a beginning has an end. It is indisputable, and applicable to everything. How can you say your soul had a beginning and be so confident that it will not end?[/quote]
There may be some things in existence, however abstract, that have no beginning nor end. Exceptions to the rule, basically. Time is one; if it isn't, I'm sure something else is.

I still don't know if souls do exist but I believe that they do. Perhaps the laws governing this dimension are not applicable to our souls.


Love and Peace!
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Adahn]

Your arguments are based on how the Bible has been interpreted for a very long time, Azurewolf. More than once, we have been wrong about something, to the extent that people who questioned these things were thought of as insane. The world was flat a few hundred years ago. Everybody knew it and could point you in the direction of someone who could tell you why. The Christian religion works this way. As soon as you can begin to understand language, they begin explaining what the Bible means. My parents were not Christians, so do you know what I had to do? I had to read the Bible myself. And do you want to know what I thought of the first time I read it? Reincarnation. If you, personally, want to take any of my ideas and talk about it specifically, I'd be happy to explain myself, but all you are doing is pointing me in the direction of someone who has surrounded his life with the Bible and the churches' unchanging view of it. Christians look at Jesus' sacrifice like this.

Jesus: "Here's an apple, take it."

Man: "Here's a dollar, I'll pay for it."

Jesus: "It's free. I'm giving it to you."

Man: "I'd feel better paying for it. I can't accept it without paying the price."

Jesus: "You won't take it from me, because you think I want to be paid?"

Man: "Yes, you want to be paid for the apple, and I won't take it without paying."

Man lives his life, and he can't wait to die. He can't wait to give Jesus his dollar to pay him back for taking our sins away. He thinks he will smile and say,

Man: "I did it! I gave you my dollar and now the apple is mine!"

When in fact, that man will find himself with another chance to take the apple, because Jesus in his generosity will never pull his hand back. He paid for it with his blood, and he wants to give it to you. He is not going to let you pay him for a gift. So, you can eat what has been fed to you and millions before you, having faith in the noble sacrifice of yourself to receive from Jesus, or you can pick up the Bible and read it with [I]a child's mind and a child's heart.[/I] Because, if you have ever read the bible yourself, you will see that this is [I]exactly[/I] what Jesus says you need to do. I read the Bible with a child's mind and a child's heart. You read it and believe in it with man's heart. You and all your fellow Christians have done the most terrible thing imaginable. You have stolen the hearts and minds of children, blocking them from the truth which would have been so easy for them to obtain. You point me in the direction of bishops. I point you in the direction of the Bible. Be as a child, and you will take the apple and keep your blood.

[Cyriel]

I'm actually kind of confused about what exactly you're trying to argue here... Are you saying that following Jesus is good, but organized religion isn't? Could you clarify a bit more...?

[Adahn]

Read my posts with the perspective that I disagree with the commonly accepted traditions of Christianity, and it should clear things up.

[AzureWolf]

[QUOTE]Your arguments are based on how the Bible has been interpreted for a very long time, Azurewolf. More than once, we have been wrong about something, to the extent that people who questioned these things were thought of as insane... Reincarnation. If you, personally, want to take any of my ideas and talk about it specifically, I'd be happy to explain myself, but all you are doing is pointing me in the direction of someone who has surrounded his life with the Bible and the churches' unchanging view of it.[/QUOTE] [FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Wow, this paragraph says two things to me:

1. You avoided addressing my responses to your ideas, brushing them aside as "the usual response." However, you have still failed in providing support for your ideas, not to mention being absolutely unable to defend them. Again, it's fine to have your own opinions and ideas, but if you are going to post them, you have to have something to discuss. So, since my responses are so usual and expected, go ahead and rebute them - if you can.

2. You obviously didn't even finish reading my post. [B]I'm not Christian[/B], and I never was. I'm truly flattered that you think my knowledge rivals that of a person who was raised through Christian beliefs, but I doubt I would have came to the same conclusions, since I disagree with quite a few Christian ideas. Again, lack of logic and not enough support. You can't brush aside things if you start a discussion about them.

I might need to emphasize this again since you seemed to have skimmed my post: it's fine to have your own opinions. However, you can't just announce them on a forum that demands discussion. Therefore, if you don't have support or reasoning to back up your claims, there's no reason to start talking.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[wrist cutter]

Wow Adahn, you should totally be published. This is groundbreaking and entirely original.

[Adahn]

First, to wrist cutter: I hope you don't think I'm rude, but almost everything I write is met with cynicism, and I was wondering if you were being serious or sarcastic.

Here's the paragraph you chose to highlight, Azurewolf

Your arguments are based on how the Bible has been interpreted for a very long time, Azurewolf. More than once, we have been wrong about something, to the extent that people who questioned these things were thought of as insane... Reincarnation. If you, personally, want to take any of my ideas and talk about it specifically, I'd be happy to explain myself, but all you are doing is pointing me in the direction of someone who has surrounded his life with the Bible and the churches' unchanging view of it.

First, let's get one thing straight. I'm not stupid. I read your post and know that you're not a Christian. All you told me to do was talk to a bishop, and that's what I'm referring to here, though that seems to have slipped by you. I'm sorry you misunderstood. As for me not addressing your comments, they consisted of you telling me to find a bishop and talk to him. My reply is that one must be like a child to get into heaven, which is in the bible (yes, I'll quote this for you) [I]Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.[/I] If you want to isolate any one of my ideas and ask where I found it in the bible, I can do that. I hope you understand better. If it helps, I will edit this post later with lots and lots of verses and my own interpretation, but it's 12:30 A.M. I believe I've cleared away half of your complaints though.

[Afire]

Wow! A subject close to my heart and worth joining Otaku Boards for! I understand perfectly what Adahn is talking about.

I have read the bible with the teachings of men (who are liars I might add) and it molested my childlike mind. Only truth came then and restored my innocence. I won't go into detail about that. I read it with the childlike mind then and came to the same conclusion that Adahn did.

It was hard to accept at first, because of the previous teachings I had recieved.
The more I thought about it...the better it got. There was nothing in this world better, but I soon realized that this knowledge was not in the world. It had to come from within me. It took away every barrier to love. There was nothing to contradict anything left. It has left me free.

To find someone who sees what I see in the word feels like water turning into wine,
because the truth rocks! It sets me on fire.

[Immortal Meier]

we'll christianity..is one of the thing in which i believe less..how can people that have killed arabs only because they were arabs(during the crusades)can have as a dogma "not committ omicide"?
as it is only the most simple thing..
probably i trust in my personal idea of after life (even if i've doubt yet..but knowing everything in the beginning is boring^^ no?)..in no one religion you can find truth that can be right for everybody
christian priests are one of the more contradditories things on earth..they are for poverty but churches are allways full of gold and silver..in italy ofter the money for the poor as used for their personal business like cars or houses..
they believe in castity but sometimes you can see them looking for bitches..so..how can this be the right religion if its priests are the first that don't respect what it want to teach?
another consideration must be made on islam..yes..there people follow the dogmas..but the 90% of them uses the dogmas to make thing that if you read the coran not as an islamic you'll see that there's nothing that they do now..
probably the most realistic religions are the far-east ones..or the buddhism..but in every religion you can find something that is not "true" so i thing that everyone should trust in what he believe..and not in the religion made from others

[Afire]

I believe what Adahn is trying to get acoss, is that the preconceived views of Christianity today have nothing to do with the truth of what Christ finished 2000 years ago.

There was only one punishment for sin. This was death.

If Christ took the punishment for sin; then where is your salvation?

When I read the word with the childlike mind, I realized that hell was not a place. It is the state of mind that corruptible man lives in most of the time. This includes so called Christians, or they wouldn't all be in such a sure fire hurry to get to heaven.

To keep the power of satan alive after Christ finished him was their first mistake.
They have only taken satans place as God's mirror trying to steal His glory.

To keep hell as a resting place for those they don't agree with? Perfectly evil.
On the cross Christ said, "Father forgive them, for they (meaning all) know not what they do. He didn't leave anyone out of Heaven then, and He will never change.

Most people search for "God's will" for them. I say God's will for man was in the manner he created man in the first place. Immortal. God has one will for man.
Everlasting Life. And life is in the flesh my friends.

[Skye]

[size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo] Rumplestiltskin. :p Don?t ask, I?ve been dying to say that all day.

You know, I swore up and down I would not get involved in this. For once, I agree with Adahn. Oh, and Adahn: wrist cutter is always sarcastic.

It is an interesting question, neh? To go back to the first post: I do believe in afterlife i.e. rebirth. I, personally, think we never really die. Its an interesting concept, and one I?ve puzzled over multiple times. I think, personally, that it seems like our soul was just born because we never run into familiar souls in this life. Sometimes we can find the same soul over and over again, and this makes it easier to believe in rebirth.

[quote name='Adahn']When we sinned, God left the earth because it was infected with sin, which it had never been before.[/quote]

How the hell (pardon) can God leave if he?s everything? In everything? Everyone? That is extremely stupid. I get really ticked off when someone says, ?Have you found God?? Because, according to Christians, He never really left. How can I not have found Him? He?s [I]God[/I].

Heh, I have to share this. A couple from my congregation had just gotten married, and was going skiing. All the way up the mountain, they were stuck next one woman. So she asked, ?Do you know Jesus?? And the husband replied, ?Oh, yes, we?re having him for lunch on Tuesday.? I thought I was going to die when I heard that.

[quote name='Adahn'] This is where Christians almost have it right. They say that one needs to accept Jesus' forgiveness to be saved and go to heaven.[/quote]

Erm? >> Not meaning to contradict what you said, but if Jesus took our sins, then we don?t really have a choice in the matter on being saved. He either took away our sins or he didn?t. If he did, we?re saved, and there?s no sin big enough to contradict what Jesus did for us. Of course, me not being Christian may make you ignore what I?ve said, but please think about it.

And that?s all just for the first post(which started the thread). My input. Take it or leave it. If you take, consider what I?ve said, and see where it fits.

Rhian[/size][/font][/color]

[Afire]

[QUOTE=Rhian][size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo]
Heh, I have to share this. A couple from my congregation had just gotten married, and was going skiing. All the way up the mountain, they were stuck next one woman. So she asked, ?Do you know Jesus?? And the husband replied, ?Oh, yes, we?re having him for lunch on Tuesday.? I thought I was going to die when I heard that.[/size][/font][/color][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the story Rhian! *cracks up*
[QUOTE=Rhian][size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo]
Erm? >> Not meaning to contradict what you said, but if Jesus took our sins, then we don?t really have a choice in the matter on being saved. He either took away our sins or he didn?t. If he did, we?re saved, and there?s no sin big enough to contradict what Jesus did for us. Of course, me not being Christian may make you ignore what I?ve said, but please think about it.
[/size][/font][/color][/QUOTE]
The choice is to receive eternal life today.
I believe that the matter of being saved is for the flesh itself. To recieve everlasting life in this life. To never die again. For to live under the law of sin and death in a corruptible state IS hell no matter how many times you live it.

I'm saying that the so called Christians have got it wrong. To deny this is anti-christ.
To receive everlasting life in this life...that's where faith begins. Faith is in what you can't see. Death is all around us. To believe in death is not faith. But to believe in eternal life "on earth as it is in heaven" is faith. Only the beginning, with no end to the possibilities after.

[Skye]

[QUOTE=Afire]Thanks for the story Rhian! *cracks up*

The choice is to receive eternal life today.
I believe that the matter of being saved is for the flesh itself. To recieve everlasting life in this life. To never die again. For to live under the law of sin and death in a corruptible state IS hell no matter how many times you live it.

I'm saying that the so called Christians have got it wrong. To deny this is anti-christ.
To receive everlasting life in this life...that's where faith begins. Faith is in what you can't see. Death is all around us. To believe in death is not faith. But to believe in eternal life "on earth as it is in heaven" is faith. Only the beginning, with no end to the possibilities after.[/QUOTE]
[size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo]You know, I agree with you. And thanks for listening to me. Most people just take what I say and twist it up and throw it out the window becuase I'm only 13.

I do love Jesus. There's no way I can't. I grew up (from baby to seven years old, my most impressionable state) in a Christian church, and our main rule was love Jesus. SO, even though I am not Christian, I appreciate what Jesus did, and I love him. I loved him as a child, though it seemed like I ignored him. ANd guys, don't tell me that since I'm not Christian I can't love God or Jesus, because then i would have to not love the Goddess, or Budha, or the otehr Gods. I have free will, and damnit, I love whomever I want to love!

Gah, that was babble. It made total sense in my head. But yeah, I know. Your last paragraph was exactly it. >> I'm babbling again. ^_^ I guess all I have to say is that I agree with you. Your post proves my point. Most Christians misunderstand the Bible. El Biblio, The Book. They take what is said and twist it around. Religion and faith is more of a 'what I believe' thing than a 'This is what it says, so this is what I do' thing.

>.< I'm rambling.[/size][/font][/color]

[Adahn]

[QUOTE=Rhian][size=1][font=veranda][color=indigo] How the hell (pardon) can God leave if he?s everything? In everything? Everyone? That is extremely stupid. I get really ticked off when someone says, ?Have you found God?? Because, according to Christians, He never really left. How can I not have found Him? He?s [I]God[/I].

Erm? >> Not meaning to contradict what you said, but if Jesus took our sins, then we don?t really have a choice in the matter on being saved. He either took away our sins or he didn?t. If he did, we?re saved, and there?s no sin big enough to contradict what Jesus did for us. Of course, me not being Christian may make you ignore what I?ve said, but please think about it.
Rhian[/size][/font][/color][/QUOTE]

The first one is easy to answer. God is in everything but sin. He did leave us, but he came back. He took our sins away when he died for us on the cross, and now he lives within all of us again.

We do have a choice when it comes to being saved.

[I]Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.[/I]

If you close your ears to the truth Jesus gave us and don't believe in God, even He cannot save you. Man has free will, and only man has the ability to condemn himself. We would have no purpose without free will. We would all be God. I suppose you can love Jesus if you respect other Gods, but you don't believe him. If you take any one thing He said and choose to disregard it, you may as well disregard everything, because there is no incomplete faith. It is an all or nothing decision. I still have class, so I can't quote the Bible more and show you the complete truth, but I have all weekend and I'll get around to it :D

[TheShinje]

[QUOTE=Immortal Meier]we'll christianity..is one of the thing in which i believe less..how can people that have killed arabs only because they were arabs(during the crusades)can have as a dogma "not committ omicide"?
as it is only the most simple thing..
[/QUOTE]
Not all Christians were crusaders, those who took part in the crusades were not following the truth. theyw ere most certainly living a lie, claiming to be that which they weren't.


This is why I don't consider attacking Christianity on account of the crusades to be an entirely fair idea. After all, you don't continue to attack Germany because of the Holocaust.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Now, the Crusades and numerous other historical incidents can be used to attack Christianity as an institution; there is nothing unfair about this. To say that someone was "living a lie" or some similar crap to discount the incidents as not applicable [i]is[/i] actually unfair. Everyone knows that the various Christian churches have throughout history been unscrupulous to the utmost, and like it or not, that does tarnish Christianity's credibility as a religion.

[Adahn]

The Crusades were a terrible thing, but I don't hold that against today's Christians whatsoever. Those people were just being human. When you give humans power, they tend to abuse it, Christian or not. It does, however, show that long ago Christians were wrong on a very large scale. Since events such as these happened, it shows us that the religion has never been perfect. What I propose is much larger than the crusade. I assert that no person following the commonly accepted Christian religion has had any kind of salvation. Most people would curse me thousands of times for saying this person or that person wasn't good enough to get to heaven. Those same people would curse me for saying this person or that person didn't go to hell, because that is what I am saying, also. This is why Christians refuse to answer me. I openly dare any Christian to take anything I've said and question it.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]Unfortunately, you are only as enlightened as every other pseudo-messiah, fuhrer or sage that has and will exist during the course of our species in this dimension. If you do turn out to be the one, the one person out of the billions that will/have pondered, contemplated and soul searched to the point they hit "the truth", congratulations.

To me, it will never be as simple as X group of opinionated people is right in comparison to Y group of opinionated people and that X should do everything in their power to show Y how "corrupt" or "wrong" or "not true" their opinions are. I'd explain how I feel, but that is completely irrelevant and really, I doubt you are interested in being objective towards other's views at all.

There are many different spiritual paths and they always seem to place themselves in competition in one another.. and yet, they all seem to be heading towards the same ending, if you watch them long enough. It's almost pitiful, heh. It would be delightful for "the truth" to be found, but it needs to be distinguished from the field of religions all with their claims of being the one. Ah well. Until that time, I am agnostic and not passionately searching for a faith. To each his own.[/color]

[Adahn]

The thing is, I would like to hear what other people think, but nobody will tell me. Give me your thoughts and ideas, please. Don't assume I don't want anybody's opinion, because that's not true. I can't argue my points if they don't conflict with someone else's. Not a single home-grown Christian has replied. If I have to debate with agnostics, I'll debate with agnostics. All it does is help me clarify my thoughts and ideas, and that's all I'm asking for.

[Chaos]

Somewhat off of the topic, but the following line just sparked a laugh;

"The Crusades were a terrible thing"

How could any self-respecting Christian say such a thing? It's the same thing as a Jew calling the U.S.' involvement in World War II pestering. You have to remember, everyone, that the actions of the past were righteous in the past. Hitler was a god to Nazi-era Germany. He brought them out of the Great Depression, promoted a strong, industrial growth, and invoked a fire within the denizens that supported a stout little man with an entirely ******-up view of the world. You see my point? It's like a little political cartoon that's been around forever;

A pillar, with a circular column, and a square base, with the words "The law" etched in the side. There are two judges, one on the left, one on the right. The one on the left says "It's round!" and the one on the right, kneeling at the base, says "It's square!". It shows just how radically things can change from person to person. Holocaust, Crusades, Gulf Wars, Vietnam, Revolutionary War, and so on.

To apply this to the point at hand, the life experiences we, well, experience, shape us forever, however minimally. Every single person will have a sidelong look at someone else's opinion on life, heaven, and hell. One will say this, one will say that. Christianity is not the way. Islam is evil. Hinduism is a paganism abomination.

The solution to this obvious clash? Rewind the clock fifty years. Keep personal matters personal. Don't express family matters. Don't involve politics with war and the media with war. The other ways around, too. Treat each person you don't know with mild respect. Nod to someone on the street when you make eye contact by accident. Say "Have a nice day" when someone gives you your change at the grocery. No need to be all sunshine and flowers, just quietly go about your business.

A simple smile or acknowledgment of another human being can make your or his day all the much better. Don't protest wars. They lead to riots and tear gas. Don't protest abortion. That's someone else's choice that they must live with. Don't criticize the administration policies of the government unless you have a law degree and training to handle public affairs.

Mind. Your. Own. Business.

[Adahn]

I just don't see the humor in the statement, "The Crusades were a terrible thing." Let's see here, mass slaughter of innocent people. Hmm. Falls into my terrible thing category, though I don't know about you. What you said about just trying to be courteous to other people was a very nice thing to say. I know it's a good thing because here on campus that's the norm. Everyone holds the door for everyone else, says please and thank you, and excuses themself when they're in someone's way. To live your life that way makes you a good person, and I like good people. And in response to your overall theme that things that seem good at the time end up being bad, and it's all in perspective, I'm here with another perspective. I'm saying that being a Christian today, a quality that most people in this country praise, is not such a good thing. I'm saying that they are terribly, terribly mistaken, but they won't find out until it's too late. You say to each his own, but the Christian way of doing things compromises that completely. They take away the will of young children to read and understand the Bible (which I think is true, though very misinterpreted). You talk about the mass killing of human bodies, I'm talking about the mass corruption of human souls. When the truth is revealed, we will look upon Christianity with disgust, but recognize that it was something that happened and we cannot change it. From the perspective of truth itself, Christianity is more terrible than all mass (blank)-cides put together. Here I am, throwing out these accusations that must be terrible to Christians, and not one of them will say a word in defense of what they believe in. They are afraid to question the beliefs that have been fed to them, but it's not their fault. Christianity is and always has been a religion that thrived on fear, and 2,000 years of cultivation has made it pretty damn effective.

[Cyriel]

Why do you think that Christianity takes away the will of young children to read and understand the Bible? And which parts do you think the Bible is misinterpreted?
[QUOTE]They are afraid to question the beliefs that have been fed to them, but it's not their fault. Christianity is and always has been a religion that thrived on fear, and 2,000 years of cultivation has made it pretty damn effective.[/QUOTE]
Could you perhaps provide some proof? Where are you getting the basis for this?

[Afire]

[quote name='Cyriel']Why do you think that Christianity takes away the will of young children to read and understand the Bible? And which parts do you think the Bible is misinterpreted?[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Purple]I believe that it's actually fear that takes away mankinds ability to understand anything correctly.

I was taught from the time that I was born, that I needed to accept Jesus, or go to an everlasting Hell when I died. I was taught that prayer itself, was crying out to a God out there, for something that had already been given. I was taught that if I questioned these beliefs, I would be in danger of being punished by this same God himself.

Did anyone here, ever hear of the Stockholm Syndrome? If you have, you would see that man's mind works very strangely under the power of fear of a captor. You would see that it does have long term effects.

How much more powerful the effects of an Invisible Captor to a child?

How do you escape from the invisible captor? This captor held the lives of your
ancestors who passed down the captivity to you. You were born into a 2000 year old captivity. Your captor is believed to hold the quality of life in his hands. Not only your life, but the lives of everyone. Your childrens, children, and so on. Not only your immediate life...but your everlasting souls too. He has the whole world to judge in his hands. If you are a good little captive...you receive reward. Not enough to set you free...BUT ENOUGH TO KEEP YOU CAPTIVE! You even try to recruit other captives for him. They are already captive. Keep your captor happy, and you will receive mercy. Make your captor angry and you will be punished. Everlasting reward and punishment are in his hands. You are made to share in your captors judgments. The judgments make you endure your captivity. They give you power. They make you BLIND to your captivity. You are made to sacrifice to your captor. The sacrifice makes you feel safe when you never were. Your captor always wants more. You are made to worship your captor. The worship makes you think that your captor is God. Your worship disguises the FEAR. There are so many other captives. How could it be wrong? You have captives for friends. You all share the same feelings about your captor. Your captive emotions are universal. There is no way to escape the all seeing invisible captor...EXCEPT TO DIE...or to secretly [inwardly] rebel. Yes, you can secretly even hate your captor. You can despise him and hurt yourself and others to get back at him. You can hold all manner of perverted thoughts. The rebellion is not done on a conscious level. It has to be in secret, or your captor will find out. But the perversion always manifests all by itself. Sin emerges, and you know you are bad. You pride yourself on keeping the rebellion secret. But it's only a secret to you. This always ends in corruption and death. The only thing that you don't know, is that your captor is IMAGINARY. Your captor IS the antichrist. You called him Jesus. It is the whole captive system that takes what the real Jesus did, to restore us to freedom, and tries to destroy it. I believe that the so called Christian Church is at the pinnacle of this captivity.

I also know that the truth has come back to the world already; because it is in me.
I have escaped the captivity. Nothing can stop the truth now. Not you, anyone,
or anything. I am not alone; there are others. I am FREE.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]