Terminator Trilogy - Thesis Statement Feedback

[Brasil]

Okay, I'm posting this because I'm pretty much looking for feedback on this. I've got a paper due in my Sci-fi Film course, and my thesis statement is the following:

[quote]?Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2, because the conflict, actions, and outcome of the films are not affected by humans, instead dictated by machines, the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films, and because of this, any human effort to alter the future is a futile gesture.?[/quote]What do you all think? Any suggestions, comments, reactions? Anything in there you disagree with?

[Guest Midnight Rush]

[QUOTE=Siren]Okay, I'm posting this because I'm pretty much looking for feedback on this. I've got a paper due in my Sci-fi Film course, and my thesis statement is the following:

What do you all think? Any suggestions, comments, reactions? Anything in there you disagree with?[/QUOTE]

That is good, nothing really wrong that I see. I, however, would write it like this-

?Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2, because the conflict, actions, and outcome of the films are not affected by humans, instead dictated by machines, the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films, and because of this, any human effort to alter the future is a futile gesture.?

Judgement day is not hindered (word usage: suggesting its eventuality anyway) in Terminator 2 (I do not believe you need a comma here because it is it is not an appositive and a continuation of the opening clause) because the actions, conflict, and resolution (word order/usage: I put actions before conflict because it rolls off of the tongue in a more fluid manner; resolution is a superior word; of the films is assumed, it is not needed) are not directed (humans certainly do affect things, although they do not dictate them) by man (succintness), the pawn; but rather by the Machines, the symbol of fate (no caps needed, as in Western thought, fate is not an entity, rather a intrisic agency of life), thus the human action to change the flow of events is an excercise in futility. (I end it differently for 2 reasons: because of this causes a pause in the thought, not needed or wanted, and alter the future is not exactly correct, as the humans do in small ways. They do not however, alter the primary course of events)

I got a 98% in comp 1 and Comp 2, and I hope that I have been a help to you. Feel free to use what I have, to use a piece of it, or any other ideas derived from it without citing credit whatsoever.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Midnight Rush']That is good, nothing really wrong that I see. I, however, would write it like this-[/quote]Let's see. ^_^

[QUOTE]Judgement day is not hindered (word usage: suggesting its eventuality anyway) in Terminator 2 (I do not believe you need a comma here because it is it is not an appositive and a continuation of the opening clause)[/QUOTE][url="http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/commas_big.htm"]http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/commas_big.htm[/url]

The comma usage is correct. You could theoretically omit the comma, but it may lead to sentence flow confusion, and would most likely interrupt the pacing, as well.

Also, "Judgment Day" is a proper name in the context of T2, so both words are capitalized.

[QUOTE]because the actions, conflict, and resolution (word order/usage: I put actions before conflict because it rolls off of the tongue in a more fluid manner;[/QUOTE]Think about the order more logically. I'm not going to start with the action (the middle); I'm going to start with the initiation, the start of the conflict itself, because without the conflict, there is no action.

[QUOTE]resolution is a superior word[/QUOTE]But it isn't the correct word. "Resolution" implies a success. That's why there's a "solution" in there. There is neither success nor solution in T2, because the humans are secondary characters. "Outcome" is a more or less neutral term, a blanker word, one that does not convey any type of success at all.

[QUOTE]of the films is assumed, it is not needed)[/QUOTE]"Of the films" is needed, actually, as I'll be making references to events throughout the Trilogy, though the [i]main[/i] focus will be on T2.

[QUOTE]are not directed (humans certainly do affect things, although they do not dictate them) by man (succintness), the pawn; but rather by the Machines,[/QUOTE]"Dictated" is the appropriate word, and here's why. "Directed" has an entirely different meaning than "dictated." "Directed" simply means "guided." "Dictated," on the other hand, is a total, all-encompassing strangle-hold on every single aspect of a situation. "We're living in a dictatorship."

The Machines dictate the conflict, the actions, and the outcomes, because the Machines are Fate, an unstoppable force.

[QUOTE]the symbol of fate (no caps needed, as in Western thought, fate is not an entity, rather a intrisic agency of life),[/QUOTE]Fate in the Terminator Trilogy, and T2, especially, is capitalized, because it is personified in the Machines, and becomes a very real driving force behind the series. Fate becomes its own character/element in the films, justifying the capitalization.

[QUOTE]thus the human action to change the flow of events is an excercise in futility. (I end it differently for 2 reasons: because of this causes a pause in the thought, not needed or wanted, and alter the future is not exactly correct, as the humans do in small ways. They do not however, alter the primary course of events)[/QUOTE]Problem here is, they are never able to alter the future at all. They aren't even able to alter things in small ways. The setting of the Finale in T1 is Cyberdyne for a reason. Sarah Connor is unable to kill Dyson (opportunity to alter the future) for a reason, and that reason is because she is a human; she is not a Machine. She feels. "There doesn't have to be a war!" is yet another example of the humans being unable to alter minor details, something as simple as saving Kate's father's life. He still dies.

"Alter the future" is actually quite correct, because the humans' focus throughout T2, and to a partial extent in T1 and T3, is to change the future, to alter it. Sarah is obsessed with preventing Judgment Day, a day that will happen in the future.

"Futile gesture" is a more appropriate term, because the humans aren't exercising any type of strength. To exercise is to do, to use, and they have no effective action at all. Anything they attempt is only a gesture, something looking good but having no substantial meaning behind it, hence, "futile gesture."

[quote]I got a 98% in comp 1 and Comp 2, and I hope that I have been a help to you. Feel free to use what I have, to use a piece of it, or any other ideas derived from it without citing credit whatsoever.[/QUOTE]Good job in the Comp 101/102. I'll be sure to keep that in mind in my 400 and 500 level English courses.

[TheShinje]

Good statement there, sums up the theory re: machines being fate and humans being secondary characters really well.

[Guest Midnight Rush]

I am awed to be in the presence of a writer of such vast experience! But how sorely disappointed I am, finding that one so illustrious as yourself cannot display even the most basic vocabulary skills. I do have a question though, your defensive attitude towards this tells me that you expected your grand and wonderful statement to pass without criticism. Why then, even bother to ask, when so sure of yourself?

Or does this argument boil down again to the fact that you have no political sense and I do?

Jealousy.

The Green-Eyed Beast strikes again. Your defensive nature was not aroused by my post, but rather by me! You don't like the facts of cold realism, no one would blame you! When one has sampled the coffee-shop lifestlye, it is a hard thing to let go of. Someday you'll have to. On that day, I will laugh.

I do not expect to change your little paper, or even your thick-headed mind. This feeble display of awareness beyond one's presuppositions is typical of a student. You may grow out of it, or you could become an artist or professor... then you would not have to.

G'luck lass,

I'll not give this wee "topic" the time of day again.

[James]

[color=#667F84]Midnight Rush, Siren asked for assistance/critique on his thesis statement. I don't think it's terribly wrong of him to try and explain why he has chosen to write it as it is. Afterall, I imagine the wording is incredibly important with this type of thing.

I think that his last quote was a little rude, but nonetheless, let's not turn this into a petty argument. If you are going to critique someone's work, you really do have to be prepared for the fact that they might not accept your comments.[/color]

[Dagger]

[quote name='Siren]?Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2, because the conflict, actions, and outcome of the films are not affected by humans, [B]instead dictated by machines,[/B'] the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films, and because of this, any human effort to alter the future is a futile gesture.? [/quote]

Something about the bolded part really throws me off. Everything else flows smoothly, but I strongly feel that the phrasing there is grammatically incorrect--or, at the very least, awkward and easily remedied.

I'd say "Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2 because the conflict, actions and outcome of the film are dictated by machines, the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films, rather than humans; because of this, any human effort to alter the future is futile."

You don't need to include the entire phrase "futile gesture," as it's a stock expression, and the adjective alone carries the same connotations. The other changes I made were done in the interest of streamlining the sentence. The whole "symbols of Fate" thing could probably afford to go. Like Midnight Rush, I would omit the first comma, and I personally feel that a semicolon works better than "and" in the latter half of your thesis. Of course, I [i]am[/i] a big fan of semicolons. ;)

Take my advice with a grain of salt--obviously I do feel that my version sounds better, but my revisions were based almost wholly on gut instinct and my preferences as a reader.

~Dagger~

[Brasil]

*reads Midnight Rush's outlandish and absurd ego trip of a reply* Right...didn't even bother to try to actually reply to any of my points...right...

Like James has said, in writing a paper or thesis statement, it's incredibly important to pay very close attention to the words used and the meaning of those words, because even though many people do not realize this, changing one word for another that seems identical can change the meaning of a sentence rather drastically. Something as simple as "outcome" versus "resolution," for example. Those two words are not interchangeable. They seem like they mean the same thing, but they don't...far from it, really.

When I was writing my Ahab/Smith paper, I was paying an insane and anal-retentive amount of attention to the finer details like word usage, and that anal-retentive attention paid off, because I nabbed a perfect score on it, with numerous comments from my instructor regarding both the ideas and the language itself.

One particular instance was "Nice distinction" when I spoke of the Ahab/Whale and Smith/Neo dualities. I had to make sure that I placed the characters in the appropriate places, because...let's face it. Ahab/Whale and Neo/Smith duality just would not have made sense, because it would have been implying that Ahab=Neo and Whale=Smith, when, clearly, it was the other way around.

That seems like a minor and inconsequential detail in a paper, but it's not, likewise in the Terminator 2 thesis. Like Ahab/Smith, there needs to be very particular language used, because just a simple switch in word positioning can alter an entire page or so.

And, really, this is a point that many, many people don't understand, I think, because they're simply not thinking in those mindsets of evaluating [i]why[/i] something is phrased a certain way, instead being more concerned with going on some self-righteous, self-indulgent, ego-stroking "literary" tirade.

I think some people need to start thinking about everything regarding writing when they're looking at a piece. Similar to film in that you're not only engaging in the dialogue, story, and characters, but also in the lighting, editing, pacing, camerawork, etc, when reading a piece of writing, you're looking at more than just what the words on the page are. You need to pay attention to form, content, language, execution, direction, focus, ideas, etc.

There's a much larger picture in writing, a larger picture that too many people don't even begin to see because they're so concerned with what one tiny dot of ink is doing.

[Mitch]

[QUOTE=Siren] Something as simple as "outcome" versus "resolution," for example. Those two words are not interchangeable. They seem like they mean the same thing, but they don't...far from it, really.
[/QUOTE]

Well, to me, the difference between these two words is pretty obvious. "Outcome" is what happens at the very end, whereas "resolution" is when something's [i]resolved[/i] - meaning, all loose ends are knotted, tied, and aren't laid to dangle. Whereas with outcome, the loose ends could still be flayed, unknotted, untied, laid to dangle.

I think I'd tend to agree with you on needing to pay closer attention to writing.

As for the thesis, here's how I'd personally rewrite it (although it may not suit your fancy): "Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2 because the conflict, actions, and outcome of the films are not affected by humans; instead they are dictated by machines - the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films - and because of this, any human effort to alter the future is a futile gesture.?

That's just my personal take on it. Take it or leave it as you wish.

The roughest part of it, for me, I shall bold:

[quote]"Judgment Day is not prevented in Terminator 2, because the conflict, actions, and outcome of the films are not affected by humans, instead dictated by machines, [b]the symbols of Fate in the Terminator films[/b], and because of this, any human effort to alter the future is a futile gesture.? [/quote]

As a whole the thesis statement was a little too compressed for my tastes. I had to read through it a few times before I fully linked all parts of it together and got my full understanding of what you were saying.

A thing worth doing may be to break the thesis into two sentences? Or is that allowed, by your professor? Whatever the case, it's a solid thesis, but hard to first understand because it's so compressed and dotted with commas all over the place.

I'm excited to see the paper - your past ones have been good. Mainly the Smith/ Ahab paper.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Mitch]Well, to me, the difference between these two words is pretty obvious. "Outcome" is what happens at the very end, whereas "resolution" is when something's [i]resolved[/i'] - meaning, all loose ends are knotted, tied, and aren't laid to dangle. Whereas with outcome, the loose ends could still be flayed, unknotted, untied, laid to dangle.[/quote]
Exactly.

[quote]As a whole the thesis statement was a little too compressed for my tastes. I had to read through it a few times before I fully linked all parts of it together and got my full understanding of what you were saying.[/quote]
I have the same problem with thesis statements: I don't need them. I just need the prof to ask me what my thesis is, let me verbalize it, and be ready to accept the paper in a few days, tops. I really don't need to write thesis statements for much of what I do, especially regarding Terminator, Alien, 2001, Shakespeare...really, any Lit/Film.

[QUOTE]A thing worth doing may be to break the thesis into two sentences? Or is that allowed, by your professor? Whatever the case, it's a solid thesis, but hard to first understand because it's so compressed and dotted with commas all over the place.[/QUOTE]
One sentence, lol. Can't even use a semi-colon, which is unusual. So, in thesis statements, I usually go comma-happy.

[Dagger]

[quote name='Siren']One sentence, lol. Can't even use a semi-colon, which is unusual. So, in thesis statements, I usually go comma-happy.[/quote]

Hoo, boy. I can't imagine a world without semi-colons... is there a specific, concrete reason you're not permitted to use them in your thesis? I suppose one could argue that they make it easy to "cheat" (i.e. conjoin what should rightfully be two separate sentences), but I'm interested in learning whether your professor gave a different explanation.

~Dagger~

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]Hoo, boy. I can't imagine a world without semi-colons... is there a specific, concrete reason you're not permitted to use them in your thesis? I suppose one could argue that they make it easy to "cheat" (i.e. conjoin what should rightfully be two separate sentences), but I'm interested in learning whether your professor gave a different explanation.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]
Apart from just there's so much abuse/mis-use of the semi-colon, I think it's mainly just the whole "cheating and conjoining two sentences together" thing. I don't really agree with it, either. I can understand why semi-colons are prohibited, but then again, I don't think it's going to be terribly traumatic to have one in there, you know?

I think my prof's primary reasoning behind the thesis statement requirement is to prepare us for higher writing. He teaches only high level English courses, the students of which are going to work in the English field as a career, and instructors are publishing papers more and more, so I figure he's just getting us in the habit. Good intentions, but weird application. :p