Gaming Sonic Vs. Mario (We all know who would win!)

[Guest IronMaiden666]

How is it that people can compare Mario to Sonic? Mario is a terrible character and there's no way that an overweight Italian plumber (who does no plumbing by the way) can content with a giant Lizard like Bowser let alone the cool Blue Hedgehog who can travel at the speed of sound!

Someone please tell me how anyone can ever think about comparing Mario with Sonic, it's madness I tell you! Madness!

Opinions please?

[James]

[color=#667f84]*rolls up sleeves*

First and foremost, I think it's important to look at both franchises individually. We also have to bear in mind that Mario (both the character and the Mario Bros. franchise) is significantly older than Sonic and his related franchises.

[b]Mario[/b] (First game appeared in 1985)

I won't bother talking about Mario's history prior to Super Mario Bros. (ie: his presence in the Donkey Kong games), instead I will focus specifically on his first game.

Super Mario Bros. was really the first "side scrolling action game" to exist. Previously, there had been platform action games and there had been games that utilized scrolling. However, none had combined them. Super Mario Bros. was the first.

If you think about it, the simple idea that Super Mario Bros. introduced is something that influenced [b]all[/b] gaming for years to come. The simple concept of actually having a world [i]larger than the screen itself[/i] is pretty remarkable, especially considering that it hadn't really existed before then (in the context of platform action games).

The Mario series has constantly been the source for platform action innovation. The "Mario Blueprint", or DNA, can still be seen in modern platform action games (including stuff like Jak & Daxter or Ratchet & Clank).

In addition -- and most importantly -- Sonic may never have existed without Mario. Sonic the Hedgehog was heavily based on the "Mario DNA", as were just about all platform action games of the 1980's and 1990's.

Some of Super Mario Bros. landmarks are as follows:
[list]
[*]Established and perfected the basic rules of platform action games
[*]Most widely-imitated game in history
[*]Made Mario a first-class mascot and the star of a top-selling series (during the series' peak, Mario was more recognized amongst children than Mickey Mouse)
[*]Became cornerstone of Nintendo's software empire and heralded the industry's shift in focus from arcade to home
[/list]
The final point is one of the most important (and one of the most overlooked), in my opinion.

Prior to Super Mario Bros. and the NES, the video game industry had been arcade-centric. This became even more apparent during the Atari collapse. Further back in history, Atari had been at the forefront of a home video game revolution. But when the home console market collapsed, the arcade market was really the savior of the industry.

It was Nintendo who single-handedly ressurrected the home game market. They did it with NES (which was a revolutionary machine during its time), but primarily, it was done with Mario. Without Mario, one could argue that NES would have had a much tougher time making it into homes. Mario himself, therefore, is one of the primary reasons for the entire home video game market's revival.

As a footenote, bear in mind that I'm primarily talking about Super Mario Bros. here. Super Mario 64 was also just as revolutionary; it established the fundamentals for [i]all[/i] third person, 3D games. Even non-platform games still contain some of Super Mario 64's DNA. So, the impact of this series has arguably been the most profound in the history of the industry.

[b]Sonic[/b] (First game appeared in 1991)

Sonic's genesis can be found during the early 1990's, when Nintendo was soundly thrashing Sega in every single territory other than Europe.

Nintendo had just released Super Mario Bros. 3 during that time, which had garned them some $500 million in America alone. At that time, Nintendo had replaced Toyota as Japan's most successful business.

Sega desperately needed something to compete with Nintendo's success (and, in particular, Nintendo's number one franchise). The answer was Sonic.

Then-Sega president, Hayao Nakayama, wanted to develop a mascot character that would perform incredibly well and become highly recognizable. He issued that very challenge to the entire company. Sega's AM8 division (which later became Sonic Team), came to Nakayama with the solution, after several months of toying with various designs (one of them was a bulldog, another a squirrel). The character needed to be fast (to demonstrate the power of Sega's new game console), and he needed to be simple.

Originally, the character was going to need to pick up objects and throw them. However, this proved to be too complicated. As a result, the character simply needed to roll into a ball to hit enemies. Various designs were toyed with, but it was decided that the character required spikes to be more appropriate (since a rolling ball was probably not threatening enough). The character was codenamed "Mr. Needlemouse".

Sega was very lucky, because the founding members of Sonic Team drew together to create Sonic the Hedgehog.

Sonic's landmarks are as follows:
[list]
[*]Helped Sega claim victory in the 16-bit console war (at least, for a time, I think)
[*]Demonstrated the power of strong marketing
[*]Inspired a whole generation of furry mascots
[*]Established true speed in games
[*]"Sega!"
[/list]
(In other words, Sonic had less relevance to games themselves, as opposed to being relevant in other ways -- as a marketing symbol, as a mascot, as one of the elements that raised the notoriety of the industry in the broader community).

Naoto Oshima actually designed the character (even though Yuji Naka is generally erroneously labeled as Sonic's creator). Oshima also created the character designs in NiGHTS into Dreams, for the Saturn. He also directed Sonic CD (my all-time favourite Sonic game; thank you Mr. Oshima!) And he created a seperate development studio known as Artoon (which made Blinx for Xbox).

The second man was Hirokazu Yasuhara, who was responsible for designing the environments and the gameplay itself. He worked on many subsequent Sonic games, and he was later hired by Naughty Dog to work on Jak & Daxter.

The third (and most famous) is Yuji Naka, who almost single-handedly programmed the entire game. He has since become the "Sonic man" -- the man credited with being Sonic's father, despite the somewhat erroneous nature of that label.

Sonic was a pretty big success, though never as successful as Mario. Sonic's success, apart from being a great game, was largely attributed to the fact that Sega of America's marketing was so aggressive. Sega directly compared Sonic to Mario (labeling Mario as being slow and chubby, verus Sonic being sleek and fast). This marketing technique had been unheard of in Japan and was somewhat surprising to people like Yuji Naka.

Sonic was ultimately a game that demonstrated the power of the Genesis console. While it was not as influential as Mario had been, it was nonetheless the game that gave Sega a powerful new edge in Japan and elsewhere.

[b]Sonic verus Mario: My Thoughts[/b]

I am pretty unbiased here, though I must admit that Mario is like my second father. When my own father wasn't around, Mario was always there. I love Mario and I will always have a very strong place for that character, I think.

Having said that, I have been playing Sonic since the beginning. So, I also feel very strongly connected to that character. I absolutely adore Sonic games and I love the characters. My favourite Sonic game was Sonic CD, which was simply a work of art in every respect. Beautiful gameplay, beautiful visuals, beautiful music. I will forever curse myself for trading in my Mega CD. V_V

So how would I go about comparing them?

Well, let's start by getting the obvious out of the way: Sonic is a product of Mario, not the other way around. Sonic is a response to Mario, but Sonic is also born of the Mario DNA. So Mario is really Sonic's father, if you see what I mean.

In terms of the actual games, Sonic and Mario are both different as well as being similar. Sonic is a far more simplistic game, no question about it; the 2D Sonic games are about speed and obstacle avoidance. They are also about utilizing course elements to your advantage (like using slides, or skimming quickly across water as in Sonic 3). Sonic doesn't employ a great deal of strategy, other than in some specific circumstances (like jumping up at bubbles in order to breathe, in Sonic 2).

Mario, while not as fast as Sonic, is nonetheless a pretty damn fast paced game. Try running through levels in Super Mario Bros.; that experience is definitely fast. This is also possible in the later Mario games, although as time goes on and you get to newer and newer games, Mario becomes less about hitting platforms and more about fully utilizing the environment.

When I look at the 3D incarnations, I notice a further divergence.

Sonic Adventure is best when you play as Sonic or Tails. These levels are the epitome of what Sonic is about; speed, linearity, thrills, ease of control.

The other levels suck. They are pale, pale imitations of what Mario does best.

What does Mario do best? Well, in the 3D context, Mario is all about exploration and manipulation. In Super Mario 64, your aim isn't to run through the world as fast as you can, to get to the nearest star. Your aim is to [i]play[/i]; to explore the world and to find hidden secrets. Mario, unlike Sonic, closely emphasizes one of Shigeru Miyamoto's philosophies. In Mario, it's always about what is behind that hill, or what will you find behind that locked door, or what can be found inside that sunken ship.

All in all, I think that Mario has had a more successful transition to 3D. Mario has remained true to himself, whilst exploring the possibilities that 3D brings to his core design philosophies.

Sonic, on the other hand, has floundered with Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2. The "Sonic-style" levels in these games are wonderful -- they are what Sonic is and should be. The others are junk and don't belong.

I haven't played Sonic Heroes, but I'm told that it significantly corrects this problem, by being more Sonic-esque than the Sonic Adventure games. That's good news. And here's hoping that Sonic Adventure 3 (or Sonic Heroes 2 or whatever) will be even more Sonic-like and less I-want-to-be-like-Mario-but-not-as-good.

How to compare them overall? Well, in terms of raw stats, Mario is the winner. He is more popular, has a track record of constant innovation and revolution and he's made a hell of a lot more money.

In terms of the actual games? That comes down to personal preference. I absolutely adore both, but I do tend to look forward to new Mario games somewhat more, because Mario has never disappointed me. Ever.

In terms of the characters? Again, personal preference. Mario's wonderful -- he's a good guy, he's honest, he's hard working and he loves all his fans. He's also great at telling jokes (I can personally vouch for this). And he can be fast when he wants to be. And he [i]is[/i] a plumber (he carried out plumbing missions in various games -- so saying that he hasn't done plumbing is wrong ~_^).

Sonic, well...I just love Sonic. He's a hero, he's defiant and he isn't comfortable with that status quo. He has a no-nonsense attitude, but he's not too brash; he loves those around him and he always wants to do the right thing, no matter what. Sonic plushies are also way too cute, especially with that funny little smirk he has.

So, you decide. I personally couldn't live without them both. ^_^[/color]

[Gavin]

[size=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Well as James has practically given every possible piece of evidence with little or no bias on either side I think all that's left is to make a decision based on person views. In my own personal views Mario will always be the better of the two characters, this has to do with the fact that I've always been a hardcore Nintendo fan and Sonic was always the enemy mascot of the Sega pretenders trying to take Nintendo's crown. I know that's slightly childish but I've held those views for as long as I've been able to hold a pad and I don't think anything will ever change that.

If I was to take them both from simple gameplay experience then Mario would still win out, I wouldn't be the biggest fan of platformers but I never actually enjoyed playing Sonic on the same level as playing any of the Mario Bros. games. I just remember that playing the Sonic games on the Megadrive would always leave bored after about 5 minutes where as I could play Super Marion Bros. III for an indefinite amount of time without losing interest.

In the end I think it's just a case of personal taste.[/size]

[quote name='James][color=#667f84']So Mario is really Sonic's father, if you see what I mean.[/color][/quote]

[SIZE=1][b]Mario:[/b] [[I]Laboured breathing[/I]] Sonic, [B]I[/B] am your father.

[b]Sonic[/b] Nooo !!!!!

Sorry I just couldn't resist.[/SIZE]

[Box Hoy]

I ahve and always will be a Sonic fan over a Mario fan. The only game I ever liked from Mario was Mario 64.
These days it's obvious who is doing better in terms of popularity and gameplay. Let's two of the most recent games. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle and Super Mario Sunshine. They were released around the same time I believe. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle did far batter than Sunshine ever dreamed of accomplishing. Both had many different tasks you had to accomplish. In Sunshine your tasks became repetitive and boring. In didn't provide as much action as 64 had. The mysterious background story was all that kept me playing.

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle provided alot of variety. You could be the good team or the bad team and follow that storyline. I admit it was a let down not being able to choose an individual storyline up until you beat the game and got stage selection. As well as variety, SA2Battle also had different modes of gameplay. And a load of extras.

In my opinion Mario was a big hit then but now is just getting old where Sonic who was once not as popular is now hitting his stride.
Go SONIC!

[Erika]

[size=1][color=purple]I wouldn't quite use popularity status to show value in something. Although I love Mario, I like Sonic even better. They both have their ups and downs, but I wouldn't quite say one IS better than the other--they're just [b]different[/b] that's all

Now, I don't really need to spend too much time working on a post to get my point across. I'm just gonna tell you what I think.


Yes, 3D Mario games were always fun for me, I'm all for exploration. And I go nuts whenever I hear about a new Mario game. But I don't care about Sega and Nintendo's past, and comparing. I'm gonna look at the two of them NOW as I speak.


And I'm gonna talk about Mario and Sonic as characters, not just [i]games[/i] themselves.

I think Mario is has a boring, space-cadet-type personality. Yeah, I do also think he's funny, but after a while I get bored with "save the Princess" heroism, and seems too innocent for a protaginist, but that just goes against my personal tastes, lol.

I like Sonic as a character much better. I can't resist his spunk, and his spunk-themed games, and he even has a cool sidekick, Tails, who isn't even one of those irritating, idiotic, unnecessary cronies that you'd love to kick across the room. :3 (And Sonic's a pretty nice color, too, lol.) Even in terms of artwork, I prefer his 2D look over his 3D look any day. (But I think Mario looks just as good in 3D as 2D, but that's beside the point.) I agree with Box Hoy on everything else, lol. :3

For now, that's all I'm gonna add to the discussion. I'll come back later for the games.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Actually, I'm too lazy to talk about the games, lol--too much to talk about. James pretty much said it all, albeit I like Sonic games because they're just fast and fun. :whoops: If only they had excellent exporation elements, I'd consider Sonic game over Mario games pretty quickly, lol. :p[/color][/size]

[Guest Mizuryu]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]I have seen this sort of thing before. You all must go to Newgrounds.com and look for Mario vs. Sonic. There are at least 5 different flash movies describing this, the longest videogame feud in history. I say that both would win, but each in different catagories. I like the speed in the Sonic games, but the music and options in the Mario games, like in Super Mario World. But truthfully, I don't think that either of them would win.... but I know someone who would.... a certain other videogame character who could beat the **** outta them.... someone like.....[/COLOR]

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

The SSBM Mario would hold his own against Sonic without any problems. He's quite strong if you're skilled enough to use him well.