Hobbit Woman [New Species]

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Verdana][size=1]Has anyone heard about the dwarf species of human found in Flores? They found a woman who was a metre tall. Erm...to quote an article in a newspaper;[/size][/font]
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[size=1][font=Verdana][QUOTE] [b]SCIENTISTS ASTOUNDED BY HUMAN 'HOBBIT' DISCOVERY[/b][/font][/size]
[i][font=Verdana][size=1]By Doug Conway[/size][/font][/i]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"Australian scientists are predicting a 'paleontological gold rush' after discovering a new species of mini fuman in Indonesia.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]They were staggered to find the wellpreserved skeleton of a fully-grown female, barely a metre tall, dubbed "Hobbit" in some quarters after JRR Tolkien's tiny mythical figures.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]They believe she is a cousin of homo sapiens, like modern man descended from homo erectus, who spread from Africa to Asia more than a million years ago.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]But the newly discovered species could have lived as recently as 12,000 years ago.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]Scientists have pieced together an image of a hairless, dark-skinned dwarf species with a comparatively small head the size of a grapefruit, countersunk eyes, a flat nose, and large teeth and mouth projecting foward with virtually no chin.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]The adult female was found during excavations in September last year in a limestone cave at Liang Bua on the Indonesian island of Flores, between Bali and Timor.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]She was about 30 years old and probably died of natural causes, they say.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]She probably slumped into a muddy pool, and was covered quickly by sediment.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"If you told me alien spacecraft had landed in a field in Flores I would have been less surprised," said Peter Brown, associate professor in paleo-anthropology at the University of New England, Armidale, in northern New South Wales. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"This overturns everything I have thought. It begs the question -- what else are we going to find?[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"There should be a paleontological gold rush.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"People of this body size were supposed to be extinct three million years ago.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"We missed them by so little in time. [In evolutionary terms] they were alive yesterday."[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]Professor Brown and colleagues, including Mike Morwood from New England university and Bert Roberts from Wollongong University, describe in the science magazine [i]Nature[/i] how Flores, until recently, was "a kind of Lost World".[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"Flores was home to a range of archaic creatures extinct elsewhere, often morphed into giant or dwarf forms," they write.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"These included a dwarf from of the primitive elephant Stegodon as well as full-sized Komodo dragons and an even larger species of giant lizard.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"As a form of dwarf hum, the new species fits right in with the bizarre extinct fauna of Flores."[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]Professor Brown said the newly discovered species, known as homo floresiensis, had chimpanzee-size brains but were using stone tools and hunting and behaving like modern humans.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"But they don't have any of our genes and we don't have any of their genes," he said.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]"They are an isolated off-shot."[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]Homo floresiensis became extinct about 12,000 years ago, he believes, about the same time as the Stegodon, suggesting some catastrophic event.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]The presence of ash at the cave site indicated that event might have been a volcano.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]This was also reported on the news the other night, only it said something about there also being Giant Rats, which is pretty cool. So, yeah. Some impressions about this would be a nice discussion, heh.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]What do you think will be the implications of this? Will there be a new section added to History classes, or Biology classes? 12,000 years ago isn't very long. For instance, scientists believe that there were Aboriginals in Australia as far back as 40,000 years ago [when previously it was only believe to be 20,000 or something like that.] That would mean that they coincide in terms of when they lived, which is pretty cool. [/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]And you kinda have to wonder about how many other species there are, all descended from the same ancestor.[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]So what's your opinion of it?[/size][/font]
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[Adahn]

I think this will cause a "gold rush" as the article put it. Excavations will be conducted throughout the area with much precision. I would hold off on my opinions until further excavations are performed. If only 12,000 years have passed, we should find much more in terms of remains (I'm not an archaeologist, so I'm sorry if I've got this backwards). If indeed there are more of these hobbits, then I think Biology will have to bend to integrate them, and new arguments will spring up for and against evolution, I'm sure. I can see lots of people becoming very excited about this, but as I said, I'll hold off on my feelings until more information is available.

[Moi]

Personally, I think this is an attempt by a scientist to get rich and famous, as they always do. I mean, maybe it is just a midget? I mean, come on. They find a woman that's super small so they dub it a new species! It's ridiculous. It's a midget, simple. Plus, in ancient times, people were much shorter than modern people anyways.

As always,
Mana...

[Drix D'Zanth]

I give it a week before Tolkein enterprises file a lawsuit. His sons have been dickheads when it comes to the copyrighted information, it's rediculous.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=Moi]Personally, I think this is an attempt by a scientist to get rich and famous, as they always do. I mean, maybe it is just a midget? I mean, come on. They find a woman that's super small so they dub it a new species! It's ridiculous. It's a midget, simple. Plus, in ancient times, people were much shorter than modern people anyways.

As always,
Mana...[/QUOTE]

Oh, please. You think they haven't considered every possibility? "Midgets" have a completely different bone structure than your average person, and according to articles I've read, this new specimen's brain capacity isn't even comparable to that of contemporary humans. Feel free to correct me, but I get the feeling that you're just being skeptical for the heck of it, without bothering to seriously back up your assertions.

~Dagger~

[Harry]

[QUOTE=Moi]Personally, I think this is an attempt by a scientist to get rich and famous, as they always do. I mean, maybe it is just a midget? I mean, come on. They find a woman that's super small so they dub it a new species! It's ridiculous. It's a midget, simple. Plus, in ancient times, people were much shorter than modern people anyways.

As always,
Mana...[/QUOTE]
I think the term you're looking for a is a dwarf. Dwarfs are like short normal people. Midgets are a completely different game. Also the possibility of them not thinking this is laughable. Just because in ancient times they were shorter, doesn't mean 2+ feet shorter.

[Moi]

Actually, a dwarf is the proper term for midget, it's not "a whole different game." Dwarves is what I mean, sorry for my incorrect vocabulary usage, lol. Anyway, my point is that I think these scientists are sort of exaggerating. I mean, they just wanna get some spotlight is the main thing, I'm telling you. They always do this kind of thing when they find something that's a little odd. LOL.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Also, Moi [synonymous for..well, I'll leave that alone >_>], they said that we share none of their genes. If you pulled your head out of...the sand, then you'd realise this means that this specimen was not merely a dwarf. And the skull structure is completely different. Please, stop the spouting of useless crap.

Personally, I think this is really interesting. The more we learn about our past, the better.

[b]Edit[/b]: Also, most scientists become neither rich, nor famous.[/size]

[Moi]

Oh, thank you Baron for adding to the pile of criticism I get every day. Hmm, most scientists don't become rich or famous, well, MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO BECOME RICH AND FAMOUS WITH THIS DISCOVERY! Oh, and different genes? Different genes doesn't mean different species, Baron. I study biology, different genes could just mean that they were a different "form" of human. Don't get that confused with species.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote]"But they don't have any of our genes and we don't have any of their genes," he said.[/quote]

[quote name='Moi']I study biology, different genes could just mean that they were a different "form" of human.[/quote]

Hhmm. *taps chin* But, still, that would mean that it is a new species, and that it is not merely a dwarf human. Correct?[/size]

[Adahn]

Species are defined by the ability to produce viable offspring. These creatures seem very physiologically different from us, and any mating with modern humans (if these "hobbits" were to exist today) would probably not result in conception, and if it did, the offspring would probably not be viable (like mules).

[xmystic_silverx]

[quote name='Moi'] I think these scientists are sort of exaggerating. I mean, they just wanna get some spotlight is the main thing, I'm telling you. They always do this kind of thing when they find something that's a little odd. LOL.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]Being a scientist isn't a regular job and you have to enjoy it and I barely think that they would make a fuss over something that is "a little odd" just to get some spotlight. They don't do it for the fame. And I don't think that something with a totally different bone structure would be considered a midget just because of it's height. Species aren't "categorized", if you will, by just their height.[/SIZE]

[Delta]

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[i]"We Dwarves are sometimes hard to understand. You see, Dwarvish women are a rare sight to see. Some believe that there are no Dwarf women and that Dwarves just sprout from the ground."[/i]
[b][RIGHT]-Gimli, son of Gloin[/RIGHT][/b]

Meow.
Last I heard, "midgets" are humans with normal-size heads and torsos, and stunted limbs (kind of like cabbages: they have stunted stems that's why they form into heads). The Hobbit woman had long arms. I get Moi's point (I think): until they find more skeletons of this [i]Homo floresiensis[/i], the possibility of it being but a hoax will remain.

[i]"When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong because it had so many archaic [primitive] traits..."[/i]
[RIGHT][b]-Mike Morwood, co-discoverer and associate professor of archaeology at the University of New England, Australia. [/b][/RIGHT]

It seems that they're implying that this really is a new species. An isolated offshot... Does this mean that its ancestors broke off the [i]Homo sapiens[/i] line and evolved into something similar in appearance to us?
[URL=http://idcs0100.lib.iup.edu/~tconelly/Africa/Reading/evolrace-new.html]Evolution of Races - Trellis theory[/URL]
Perhaps they got disconnected with the rest of the world so the rest of their ancestors adapted. Then they reached their final form and had only each other to breed with (XD) allowing little variation on their genetic makeup (a sort of an evolutionary dead-end). That's probably why even 12,000 years ago this primitive humanoid still existed.

Related article from BBC: [URL=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3948165.stm]'Hobbit' joins human family tree[/URL]

Feel free to disagree.
Love and Peace!
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[Charles]

[left][size=1][quote][b]Scientists have pieced together an image of a hairless, dark-skinned dwarf species with a comparatively small head the size of a grapefruit, countersunk eyes, a flat nose, and large teeth and mouth projecting foward with virtually no chin.[/b][/quote][/size][/left]
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[Guest lavalamp]

[QUOTE=Charles][left][size=1][/size][/left]
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I think they just found:

[img]http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/ce/july/garycoleman_150.jpg[/img]

Gary Coleman?

[Charles]

[QUOTE=lava lamp]I think they just found:

[img]http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/ce/july/garycoleman_150.jpg[/img]

Gary Coleman?[/QUOTE]It's funny cause it's true. lol!

That has to be one of the better posts I've encountered here in quite a while--and I think it's because I've come to the harsh realization that I've unwittingly professed some latent desire that'll be used against me again and again.

[Corey]

[size=1]Good one lava lamp :D.


Listen Moi. I think you just need to admit that what you said was wrong. There's nothing wrong with speaking your mind, but when you're going for scientific congruety you should try and be correct.
I studied biology on the Advanced Placement level. It doesn't mean that I know everything. More than 90% of the highschoolers and highschool alumni here have taken Bio. You're not the only one.
There's no shame in admitting you were wrong. In fact it's very honorable.

As for the 'Hobbit' creature, Baron said it best.
[quote]Personally, I think this is really interesting. The more we learn about our past, the better.[/quote][/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

I agree with Baron and Corey on this one, this is something that can help us look back more accurately on our own past, something that will always be important. I've also taken Biology for the Leaving Certificate (Irish A Levels equivalent) and I can safely say that I am very, very far from knowing everything there is to know about Biology. I personally doubt there's anyone on this planet who knows everything about Biology as we spend out entire lives learning.[/SIZE]

[Deedlit]

[QUOTE][b]SCIENTISTS ASTOUNDED BY HUMAN 'HOBBIT' DISCOVERY[/b][/QUOTE][color=#009966]I knew it.

Actually, I think it's pretty interesting, but I don't know if they have any solid evidence. There's alot of "midgets" today, so it's possible that it could be that the one person was short, not an entire species. But if they can find another similar in height to the first, then I'll believe it.[/color]

[Meggido]

They say that it is a Hobbit race but except for the bones they have no proof. How do they know that it is a full grown woman from the bones? It could just be a child for all they know. The only reason this is happening is because of all the hype behind Lord of The Rings.

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I find it interesting that humans and these creatures would have coinhabited the area.

If we look at what happened to our buddies the neandert(h)als, I'll bet you we did these poor little hairy-footed guys in, too.

I always enjoy hearing about new discoveries when it comes to things like this. It's just cool, really, to learn more about the evolution of a certain genus and why one particular species came out on top.

Oh, and what alot of people don't seem to take into consideration is that the differences between an adult skeleton and a child's skeleton are very easy to notice, based solely on proportions, and that they can tell whether you were Asian or not by the bone-structure of your face.

Determining whether or not a specimen was human wouldn't be too difficult.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Lady Asphyxia]

[font=Verdana][size=1]*takes this opportunity to interject* [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]I looked around a bit and found [url="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/28/1098667866272.html?oneclick=true"][b]this article[/b][/url]. Several lines jumped out at me, so I figured I'd quote them.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]Erm, the most important parts around these ones [At least, when talking about the discussions we've been having]:[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1][i]They found bones of [color=red]pygmy elephants[/color]. Most were juveniles, says Professor Peter Brown, a human fossil expert at the University of New England. "They would have made a nice pet. Small and cute, about waist height."[/i][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]Which means that the humans weren't the only small things on the Island. It was completely cut off from the rest of the world because of two big seas or something, and so they developed differently. Giant rats and Komodo dragons were also found there. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1][i]This year, the team has uncovered Hobbit's arm bones as well as [color=red]remains from six more of the little people[/color], with the youngest dated at 13,000 years old.[/i][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]So this one skeleton isn't the only skeleton found; it's just the most intact. In fact, with remains of 6 more little people, it's highly unlikely that could be fudged.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1][font=Verdana][size=1][i]The possibility that[color=red] Hobbit had dwarfism was ruled out[/color]. The skeleton was found to be perfectly proportioned, with a skull the size of a grapefruit.[/i][/size][/font][/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]So this would seriously be a real, little person. [/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]As well as that, the volcanic ash above the layers of the little people seems to mean that they were wiped out because of the volcano; I personally think it would be very hard to get enough Volcanic ash to plant the skeletons and then cover it...but perhaps I'm wrong, lol.[/size][/font]

[font=Verdana][size=1]There's a bit of debate about what the Hobbits evolved from, and how they got to the island in the first place. It should be interesting to see it play out, I think, heh. ^_^[/size][/font]
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[font=Verdana][size=1]EDIT -- Meggido, as a woman grows, her hips widen and her anatomy changes slightly, I believe. It wouldn't be hard to distinguish between woman and child.[/size][/font]

[CaptainAnarchy]

How cool. I was studying evolution in social studies. Its so neat, I mean hobbits aren't just a myth anymore (sort of)