Gaming Final fantasy:Hot or not?

[Morpheus]

Before I say anything, If you post, please say more than "FF rulez" or "FF suckz" and don't flame anyone with different views. It makes this repetitive.

I personally have never had fun with this series at all. I don't care if it has a gripping storyline, that's not what games are about. they are about FUN. I see no fun in doing some press this button and then this one and someone might die. It's a chore to play.

[Semjaza]

There's more thought to it than simply that... I'd say that and I don't even really like FF much.

Sounds more like you don't like turn based RPGs in general, however, so it's rather unfair to target one single series in my opinion.

[Pumpkin]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1] I'm really bad at games. And the first Final Fantasy (i played the first one but a long time ago when i was younger) I played really was FF 10 and thats because my boyfriend pushed me into it. I've never been good at games, and have never got so interested in one that i actually tried to finish it. I usually just play until i get stuck, try four more times, then quit. But with Final Fantasy 10, I found the plot and the fighting/leveling up really fun. I don't know why but I've never had so much fun playing a game :D and you know what? I actually beat it. So yea, I'm bummed I missed out all those years when i could have been playing the other ff games, i havent even played ff7 which i heard is the best. FF is what got me to even be into video games in the first place, so for that, yeah im going to have to say "it rules" ^.^ [/FONT][/SIZE]

[Morpheus]

I Thoroughly enjoy turn based RPGs such as Dragon Warrior, Dragon warrior monsters, Super mario RPG series, Pokemon, and the like. I just thought that in final fantasy there were too many menial tasks, find him, talk to her, use this, It felt like I was doing something for no reward at all. The combat system is solid, but nothing sticks out or feels right.

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that Final Fantasy is a bit difficult to evaluate as a series. Each game is noteably different from the last, both in terms of story, battle system, etc...

Also, different games in the series tend to have different individuals involved in their creation, to some degree. So...it's very difficult to judge the entire series at once.

Obviously though, if you aren't a fan of the genre, you simply won't like Final Fantasy. I remember reading that someone hated the Mario games, which really shocked me (since I've never met anyone who didn't like Mario, even a little). But she really wasn't into platformers in general, she only liked RPGs. So, it was just a case of the genre not appealing to her.

I like Final Fantasy okay; some games are better than others, in my opinion. But I'd be lying if I said that the overall series wasn't quite appealing. The success of it is really evidence enough of that.

The good thing about the games being different is that if you didn't like the last game, you may still like the next one. Final Fantasy XII looks like it might have a much better story than X, for example. I strongly disliked the story in X, but I loved the battle system. So I know that XII won't merely be a continuation of a story that I had no interest in.[/color]

[Semjaza]

[quote name='Morpheus']I Thoroughly enjoy turn based RPGs such as Dragon Warrior, Dragon warrior monsters, Super mario RPG series, Pokemon, and the like. I just thought that in final fantasy there were too many menial tasks, find him, talk to her, use this, It felt like I was doing something for no reward at all. The combat system is solid, but nothing sticks out or feels right.[/quote]

Then I really don't get your reasoning... Because really, the reasons you seem to dislike FF for describe almost any turn based RPG I've ever played. I mean, Dragon Warrior is one of my top few series ever, but even it fits under that description. How many people in that game do you have to speak to in order to progress with the right information that unlocks some sort of event? How many times must you find several things to unlock some new area? How many times must you search out one single item deep in some dungeon to keep going?

While I agree that Final Fantasy as a series is very overrated (mainly because many people seem to think it's the only RPG series that exists at all) and I do agree that little really [i]stands out[/i], the argument presented isn't very compelling.

Now, I have lots of problems with the series, personally. Ranging from the different magic systems, to the experience divisons, the almost complete obliteration of serious dungeons since FF7, to the stories and characters themselves, the overuse of incredibly worn out plot mechanics in nearly every game since FF6... but citing things that pretty much make a console RPG what it is in its current form doesn't really seem like a good way to make the case, in my opinion.

I do feel like I worked for something a lot more in DW and other RPGs than FF, if that's what you mean. It does make the act of acquiring such things a bit more meaningful (a reward, I would guess?) in some ways. The fights are generally more difficult in general and many require more than really just being at the right level. Perhaps that's what you mean?

[James]

[color=#707875]I think you'll find, though, that it isn't so much a matter of Final Fantasy being noteably inferior to other RPGs. In my own experience (and from what I've gleaned through converastions with others), many players simply don't want to invest hours and hours into dungeon-crawler style games.

I think that this is one reason why Final Fantasy Tactics wasn't so widely accepted by fans of the series. Obviously it was a somewhat different genre, but fundamentally, you're talking about a highly repetitive game with a massive amount of depth. Not wanting such depth isn't a [i]bad[/i] thing per se, it's just that many gamers aren't dedicated enough to want to invest such a long time going through dungeon after dungeon, slowly building up their attributes.

In that context, Final Fantasy presents a reasonable alternative.

Although I enjoy different kinds of RPGs (I quite liked Final Fantasy Tactics and was lucky enough to get it down here, thankfully), I find that I have to be in a specific mood to play those very intensive, laborious RPGs. I don't play them regularly because they require such an enormous investment of time.

At least with Final Fantasy, I can have the best of both worlds. I can enjoy a somewhat deep battle system (as in, deep enough to allow me to tinker with my characters and their abilities), but I can also enjoy the fact that it's frequently broken up by story segments as well as a variety of locales.

Not to say that this is the reasoning of [i]every[/i] gamer or Final Fantasy fan, but, I think it should be taken into consideration. I don't necessarily think that people are settling for Final Fantasy simply because they don't know any better (although I'm sure that plenty of those people exist, particularly in the younger age group). There [i]are[/i] wholly legitimate fans out there. :-P[/color]

[Purple Haze]

I like the FF series mostly because of the story, not the gameplay. I just beat my FFX-2 the other day and started a new game plus. Tried to play to get the "perfect" ending ,but I can't. The battle system is a bore and I just can't get into it that much to keep on playing. Even games that have ATB to try and speed te turn based battles up doesn't seem to work.I liek to try and get the best weapons and equipment for each character or do a few side quests to keep me playing. tired of them and that goes the same for all turn based RPGs.

I mainly play real time battle RPGs like Kingdom Hearts, .Hack games, and Star Ocean 3. If they made a FF game real time and made it multiplayer it would be great.

[Brasil]

I've found that the FF series is somewhat uneven in game polish/design. Some games (like VI) are very, very good, with solid battle systems and really neat character dynamics--that is, good character skill utilization. Each character in VI has his or her own distinct flavor and useful skills (except for Gau...pretty much useless).

I particularly like the freedom given to the player in shaping a team. Pop on a Gauntlet/Atlas Armlet on Gogo, with a Heal Rod, and you can keep your party healed up at a magic cost that's non-existent. Genji Glove/Offering on Edgar, with a Scimitar in the On-Hand, and an Atma Weapon in the Off-Hand, and you're talking about inflicting 20k worth of damage each turn there when Edgar gets up around level 50 or so. Heh, he can solo Tyranos now. ~_^

But with the good entries in the series, come the disappointments, particularly VIII. The game just didn't click with me. The Junctioning system was bulky and unwieldy, and like Tony has said before, there's really no sufficient tutorial for it. I found the Draw system to be insipid, because, really, who wants to Draw 99 Firas from a Toad? I know I don't, lol.

Then, the plot. While the plots to the entire series were never groundbreaking or anything, granted, VIII's plot was bordering on absurd. We're playing as an angsty, brooding Gunblade-swordsmen who's...concerned with his love life, graduation, and a rival student pushing him around. So what? lol. I don't care that Squall is so depressed or disturbed about his life, and I don't care what his grades are, either.

The characters in VIII felt too cookie-cutter, I suppose, even in the context of the FF series, which thrives on character cliches. There were times, I guess, when I was playing VIII, but felt like I was watching the WB17 Sunday night line-up.

So...some games in the series (VI, VII, IX) are fun as hell, but others (VIII) are iffy. Pretty uneven series, I guess, but still has its moments.

[Semjaza]

I'm not basing my thoughts on Final Fantasy on anyone else's interests really, other than my own. To me, lacking dungeons of any value is a problem. FFX, for example, had areas that basically just amounted to long tunnels. The Sphere Trials could be considered "dungeons" due to their nature, but they were incredibly poor in design. I doubt anyone would contest that.

Now, would this be a problem if I didn't buy the original Final Fantasy on the NES at launch and grow up with this series? I doubt it. I've sat by and watched it change arbitrarily until I just decided I didn't want to buy the things anymore. The fact of the matter is that FF used to have dungeons. Interesting, well thought-out dungeons at that. They've been completely thrown to the wayside and the series has gone on to attract a totally different type of RPG gamer.

Is this a bad thing? Of course not. However, as someone who has been pretty much just forced out of this series due to its changes since the PSX days, I can't help but feel neglected in some way.

To me, this is an issue and a reason to not be into the current incarnations of the series. It's like taking Zelda or Mario or really anything else and removing things that I personally (and many others) consider the meat of the franchise. Would everyone here react to that well? I doubt it. People are still arguing about the [i]look[/i] of The Wind Waker despite the gameplay being mostly the same as OoT. The things that interested me at the start no longer remain and what is left is a shell with lots of flash, really. What is there now just isn't what got me into the series to begin with.

There's a reason I'm interested in FF1&2 on the GBA more than the past five Final Fantasy titles and it certainly isn't "nostalgia". There's also a reason I'm interested in FFXII - a new battle system, a REAL world map, the possiblity of some halfway decent dungeon segments and new designers such as Matsuno.

I think when people read "dungeon" they think of a 15 level cave. I don't even care about that much, just something more than three screens with one way to go. I'm not looking for the next Wizardry title with a 105 story castle. I'm looking for something that is actually remotely challenging to get through and doesn't involve pushing blocks into holes. This doesn't mean I want to spend hours leveling up my characters.

A want for dungeons [i]does not equal[/i] a want for dungeon crawlers. I think that's an important thing to say and it seems to be something people misunderstand quite regularly. Dungeon crawlers are the type of thing James is citing in his above post and that is not what I am expecting out of RPGs, especially ones such as FF. They are not what I'm talking about.

For example, Shin Megami Tensei, Grandia, Lunar and so forth have the ability to customize characters, contain heavy story sections and anything else something like FF would contain. However, the areas you must transverse are "dungeons" in the sense that there is more to them than three doorways and four screens that all lead to the same linear location. Some time has to be invested and some mental power has to be used. I don't think this is much to ask, especially when FF used to pride itself on these very things.

FFTactics doesn't have dungeons. It has areas where you battle and the entire thing is visible from the get go. Spending an hour and a half in a battle is not something I'm looking for either... but really, fight after fight in that game with some actual mental ability being used can be far more entertaining than a more simple battle system at times. Despite its awful translation, FFTactics has a more compelling storyline than most normal FF games anyway, in my opinion. FFTactics and FFTactics Advance sold very well, really.

That's only one issue I have with the series, personally. It goes on from there to many other things. Would people necessarily consider the things I think are problems as problems? Who knows. All I know is that I raise my own $50 for these videogames and Final Fantasy rarely gets it anymore.

[Sheikahmon]

FINAL FANTASY ROCKS!!! I simply wish the animation in FF7 had been a bit better. The Chocobos were better-looking than Cloud was! I'm pretty used to both real-time and turn-based battle systems, so that doesn't bother me so much, except that it makes catching Chocobos a real chore. *loses another one* Darnit!

[James]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']I'm not basing my thoughts on Final Fantasy on anyone else's interests really, other than my own. To me, lacking dungeons of any value is a problem. FFX, for example, had areas that basically just amounted to long tunnels. The Sphere Trials could be considered "dungeons" due to their nature, but they were incredibly poor in design. I doubt anyone would contest that.[/quote]

[color=#707875]But that's my point. They are [i]your own[/i] interests. This doesn't mean that playing Final Fantasy is necessarily a qualitative step down, or that people don't know what they're doing so they simply go for what's easiest to find.

That's really all I'm saying. Final Fantasy [i]is[/i] a valid option for many people, even though it's being portrayed here as being essentially unworthy to be played or compared to other RPGs. lol[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']Now, would this be a problem if I didn't buy the original Final Fantasy on the NES at launch and grow up with this series? I doubt it. I've sat by and watched it change arbitrarily until I just decided I didn't want to buy the things anymore. The fact of the matter is that FF used to have dungeons. Interesting, well thought-out dungeons at that. They've been completely thrown to the wayside and the series has gone on to attract a totally different type of RPG gamer. [/quote]

[color=#707875]Yeah, that's cool. I wouldn't disagree with you there at all. I'm just saying that you are constantly pointing out that Final Fantasy is some kind of tripe that the ignorant masses are playing because they don't know any better.

What I'm saying, is that this is not necessarily accurate. Evidence of that is particularly clear when you look at people's responses to the series overall -- even the biggest fans of Final Fantasy don't like every single game. People have individual tastes and they have their own reasons for choosing the product. I'm just trying to express the view that Final Fantasy is as valid as choice as any other game and that for the most part, it is worthy of its status.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']Is this a bad thing? Of course not. However, as someone who has been pretty much just forced out of this series due to its changes since the PSX days, I can't help but feel neglected in some way.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Yeah, that's okay. But I don't think it's worth frequently calling into question the legitimate choices of those who enjoy the games.

Basically, there are many areas on this topic where I agree with you. I certainly don't think that Final Fantasy is the be-all and end-all of RPGs.

However, I do feel that it's important to be fair.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel]To me, this is an issue and a reason to not be into the current incarnations of the series. It's like taking Zelda or Mario or really anything else and removing things that I personally (and many others) consider the meat of the franchise. Would everyone here react to that well? I doubt it. People are still arguing about the [i]look[/i'] of The Wind Waker despite the gameplay being mostly the same as OoT. The things that interested me at the start no longer remain and what is left is a shell with lots of flash, really. What is there now just isn't what got me into the series to begin with. [/quote]

[color=#707875]But there has to be distinction here. Saying that the newer games are "a shell with lots of flash" is totally inaccurate, in my opinion. If that were true, I wouldn't play them myself.

It's reasonable that you feel disappointed by the way that the games have changed and that's fine. But taken for what they are now, I think it's far too easy to simply dismiss these games because of their heavy use of FMV or something.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']There's a reason I'm interested in FF1&2 on the GBA more than the past five Final Fantasy titles and it certainly isn't "nostalgia". There's also a reason I'm interested in FFXII - a new battle system, a REAL world map, the possiblity of some halfway decent dungeon segments and new designers such as Matsuno.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Yeah, I understand that. I'm not trying to suggest that your position is based simply on nostalgia; I understand where you are coming from, at least in terms of your own feelings. Your taste is your own. But not everyone who enjoys the post-VI Final Fantasy games are part of the tasteless-masses, so to speak.[/color]

[quote=Semjaza Azazel]I think when people read "dungeon" they think of a 15 level cave. I don't even care about that much, just something more than three screens with one way to go. I'm not looking for the next Wizardry title with a 105 story castle. I'm looking for something that is actually remotely challenging to get through and doesn't involve pushing blocks into holes. This doesn't mean I want to spend hours leveling up my characters.

A want for dungeons [i]does not equal[/i] a want for dungeon crawlers. I think that's an important thing to say and it seems to be something people misunderstand quite regularly. Dungeon crawlers are the type of thing James is citing in his above post and that is not what I am expecting out of RPGs, especially ones such as FF. They are not what I'm talking about.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Perhaps I used "dungeon crawlers" incorrectly; your interpretation of that term is a bit more extreme than what I was thinking.

Perhaps I can expand on my comments by saying that the newer Final Fantasy games are almost totally devoid of "dungeons". If you are a fan of dungeons in RPGs, particularly in reference to older Final Fantasy games, it's understandable that the newer games wouldn't be as attractive to you.

So I'm not trying to pigeon hole you or anything like that. I was speaking in general terms, to try and describe the [i]legitimate[/i] judgement that a player may make when they choose Final Fantasy versus any other RPG that you may want to mention -- particularly an RPG for a more "hardcore" player.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']For example, Shin Megami Tensei, Grandia, Lunar and so forth have the ability to customize characters, contain heavy story sections and anything else something like FF would contain. However, the areas you must transverse are "dungeons" in the sense that there is more to them than three doorways and four screens that all lead to the same linear location. Some time has to be invested and some mental power has to be used. I don't think this is much to ask, especially when FF used to pride itself on these very things.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Yeah, that's totally reasonable. That's not what I'm objecting to. I'm objecting to the frequent suggestion that Final Fantasy is somehow unworthy or something. There seems to be a perception that knowledgable game players can't or shouldn't legitimately choose these games as options to what they may otherwise play.

I [i]do[/i] agree that many people, particularly here on OtakuBoards, simply aren't aware of many of the other RPGs out there.

But by the same token, I do think that you constantly exaggerate how bad the Final Fantasy games are. Yes, these games have disappointed you based on their history and your own personal tastes. But this doesn't mean that they are "bad games" or that they aren't offering something quite compelling in and of themselves.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']FFTactics doesn't have dungeons. It has areas where you battle and the entire thing is visible from the get go. Spending an hour and a half in a battle is not something I'm looking for either... but really, fight after fight in that game with some actual mental ability being used can be far more entertaining than a more simple battle system at times. Despite its awful translation, FFTactics has a more compelling storyline than most normal FF games anyway, in my opinion. FFTactics and FFTactics Advance sold very well, really.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Well, there are a few things I'd say here.

My referece to FFT had nothing to do with dungeons, it was more related to the constant repetition of the gameplay. Of course, each battle is different, but the entire game is focused around frequent battling and a very in-depth battle/customization system.

What I'm saying is that if you choose something more complicated that is your choice and it's no less valid than someone who chooses something that features more dialogue segments and less heavy battling. Both games are doing their own particular thing.

And certainly, there are RPGs with even more simplistic and "lazy" battle systems than Final Fantasy. But again, it's very difficult to generalize across the entire series. In the post-VI games, you are talking about fairly different battle system choices in each game, which can significantly affect how that game plays.

My overall point is that [i]both[/i] games are legitimate choices for players. One is only inferior to the other based upon your own tastes or my own tastes.[/color]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']That's only one issue I have with the series, personally. It goes on from there to many other things. Would people necessarily consider the things I think are problems as problems? Who knows. All I know is that I raise my own $50 for these videogames and Final Fantasy rarely gets it anymore.[/quote]

[color=#707875]Well, apparently they don't, given the success of the series.

I certainly have plenty of beefs with the games myself -- I believe I've mentioned those in fairly specific detail in this forum previously.

However, as I mentioned above, I don't like the constant put-downs of the series. In some ways it feels like a back-handed slap to those who [i]do[/i] know what they're talking about and who still have a legitimate interest in the series.

Of course, it's always good for people to try new things. And perhaps if other series (such as Dragon Warrior) were more visible, we'd see very different sales results. And I think I'm always mentioning that in other ways (like Wind Waker or Metroid Prime, which should probably have sold more copies given the critical and anecdotal response to them).[/color]

[Sandy]

This is my kind of topic. :D

I can honestly say I really love FF-series, and it's not just because "I don't know of better". I've tried to search some different RPG, but they all tend to go more on the hack'n'slash-side (meaning that you just advance from mission to another simply slaying monsters.)

My main attractions to the FF-series are the looks, the story, and the gameplay - all of which are IMO in balance in almost every part I've played (VI-IX, X-2 & TA).

The graphics have always astounded me (although FF7 is hardly comparable to FFX anymore, but in its time it was something awe-inspiring). I enjoy playing games that look good.

Added to that are the always unique and complicated plots (well, save FFTA which had a boring goodnight-story). I've always loved the cast of playable characters in each game, since they have always at least tried to step aside from the traditional knight-princess-wizard -roles. Each character has its own personality and a place in the respective world. Also the worlds - an entire new dimensions - have intrigued me greatly. Exploring in the game is great fun! And one can't forget the surprising (unless you've spoiled yourself in a web-board) twists and turn that the stories take. It's really like playing a movie, and I don't find anything bad about that.

Gameplay has also been perfect for me. At the beginning it's always easy, but as you advance and level-up, new features add challenge to the battles. I'm not one bit bothered by the fact that the system changes in practically every game - I get bored quickly. What I wish is that they'd bring the ability-systems outside the battle more (like in Golden Sun-series), allowing you to use spells and other skills to progress through dungeons etc. It would add a whole new dimension to the series (although I have a hunch that they'll add something like that to FFXII).

So here's my reasons why I play the series - and would like to play all the parts of it. It just leaves me graving for more... :P Right now I'm constantly hunting new tidbits from FFXII, which I predict will change the direction of the series a whole lot.

[Zidargh]

[QUOTE=Sage]

The graphics have always astounded me (although FF7 is hardly comparable to FFX anymore, but in its time it was something awe-inspiring). I enjoy playing games that look good.

[/QUOTE]

[size=1] Oh come now, whenever I play FF7 for the reminscing experience, I still have a soft spot in my heart for the graphics in FF7. ^_~

The backgrounds were pre-rendered, and those adorable blocky hands melt my heart, lol. Well... I wouldn't take it that far, but I still enjoy the looks of FF7. And you're definitely right, the graphics were awe inspiring for the time.

To be honest, I've extremely enjoyed the Final Fantasy series from II-IX, including Tactics (Not Advance!), but now I feel this modernisation has ruined the Final Fantasy atmosphere. Admittedly, I really do think FFXII could be sensational. But Final Fantasy X just made me cringe in places.

My draw to the series was by FFVII, which was my first ever Final Fantasy game (A damn good one at that if I do say so myself), and of course I just got sucked in, being in my young, naive age. I was in single figures, heh.

I just found the variation in gameplay throughout each title, and the strong story up to IX a wonderful experience.

I hope XII brings it all back., just like FFT did when I played it for the first time 2 years ago.


[b][Z][/b][/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Personally I'm kind of on the fence for this, there have been times when I've absolutely been addicted to playing certain Final Fantasy games and times when I get very irritated very quickly at it. I definitely agree with Siren on this one, the game defines the experience, Final Fantasy VI is without a doubt the best of the series I've played so far, the characters felt much more human and even the plotline seemed to be plausable (yes even as far fetched as it was). However when I played Final Fantasy VIII I found myself tearing at my hair because of the sheer dire nature of the game, there was not one thing I actually liked about VIII beyond the cut-scenes.

Final Fantasy X is a bit of a neutral in my books, I actually enjoyed it even if it wasn't as good as say VI or VII, the Sphere Trials did bring the game down slightly though I think that some of the characters did compensate for this. Tidus in my books will always go down as the typical hero character, the young fellow who comes along, realises his potential and then kicks the living crap out of every evil doer in his path, of yes and he gets the girl. Yes the ending of X does sort of negate that but you can see what I mean, personally I regard X as being somewhere between VI and VIII in terms of playability and fun. The graphics of X didn't really make a huge impact on my thoughts of it, yes I do enjoy looking at nice backgrounds and dodgy graphics never sits well with me but I think it didn't really count all that much in favour of X.

In the end I think the Final Fantasy series always has to be taken with a pinch of salt depending on what game you're playing, the boring nature of levelling up may not sit well with action fans but Vi managed to do it without making it tedious. Music and atmosphere are always high points in almost every Final Fantasy games also, the Balamb Garden background music is one of the most calming tunes I've ever heard. Great at times, awful at times.[/SIZE]

[Desbreko]

[color=#4B0082]I wouldn't say the Final Fantasy series is the best thing out there, but I don't think it's bad, either. The series does have its ups and downs, and I've enjoyed various games for various reasons, and overall I'd say it's a pretty good series of RPGs. I'm not a huge fan, but I can generally trust that I'll have a good amount of fun when I pick up a Final Fantasy game.

The main thing I enjoy in RPGs are the battles, so the older games in the series (FFIV and FFVI for me, since I've yet to play FFV and I'm waiting for the GBA remake of FFI and FFII) with their heavy focus on dungeons and fighting remain my favorites in the main series. But that's not to say I haven't enjoyed the later games in the series; I've beaten FFVII, FFIX, and FFX, and I think all three were worth the purchases. The later games may not focus as heavily on battles as the older games, but I can still enjoy the various battle/magic systems regardless, and sometimes story and characters can make up for less than great battles. FFVIII is the only game in the series that didn't interest me in any area, and as such, I never bothered playing it after seeing my brother play a good chunk of the game.

I definitely have my favorites, then, but I tend to be pretty open to various kinds of RPGs, and I can find things I like in both the older and newer FF games. Overall, I'm happy with my experiences with the series. I've definitely branched out a lot since the days where I hadn't played any RPGs besides FFIV, FFVI, and FFVII, and I've found a lot of other good RPGs out there (and some that I definitely like more than most FF games), but I still enjoy Final Fantasy.[/color]

[Semjaza]

I've not put down the players of this game purposely, other than to say that I don't think many of them look beyond the series... I don't even consider that a put down.

For example, I like NBA Street, but I don't look beyond it to other basketball games. That's my own interest and if some sports fan thinks I'm missing out by not playing some sim basketball title, then oh well. That's just how it is and I have little interest in looking past it. Maybe I am missing out? Maybe there is better? Maybe Street is the best thing and all other titles are just not fun for me? Who knows. That doesn't mean the guy who doesn't like NBA Street but loves ESPN-whatever thinks I'm an idiot and is insulting me. Its an attempt to broaden my horizons into other things. Whether it'll win me over or not is up to me.

Perhaps much of this can be attributed to some people out there who enjoy the series and really don't have the money to go and buy stuff they don't have experience with. I know if I only had $50 for the month and I liked FF23, I'd be more likely to buy FF24 than some other random RPG. Does that make this kid stupid or someone I'm insulting? No, of course not.

It's the same reason people blindly buy Pokemon, Madden, Mario and whatever else without thinking twice and ignore the competing titles. I do it, everyone does it. But, they are still included in the group of people that aren't able or willing to look past the series. These are the types of people I am talking about and I don't see how pointing out their actions, despite putting them in the groups I have been referring to, means I'm calling them stupid in some way. I'm in that very group with other games and I don't think I am stupid lol.

I've been going here long enough that I realize there are intelligent people who like this series. Making an implication that only "stupid" people play this series would be insulting myself, considering I've bought FF1 through FFXI... that includes all the PSX RPGs that I didn't really think were up to snuff compared to their previous games. But hell, I don't even like FFV or FFII much at all either.

There's several in this very thread who have always given good reasons as to why they like the series and I respect them and their reasons. I've not argued directly against any of them, nor have I included them into the group of people that I have contact with that I know really don't look beyond this stuff for whatever reason. I think Desbreko and Sage would agree with that, as I don't remember ever just telling them they were wrong to like something I don't... which is how I feel I am being portrayed in some ways here.

Hell, just knowing that, for example, Sage has looked into other games but didn't like them as much for whatever reason is fine by me. It doesn't mean that I think Sage is dumb and doesn't realize how good those games really are... because I think the opposite. I don't think many people even try, quite honestly. Yet, at the same time, many do. Some may use FF as a barometer that measures how a RPG should be and not give another game a fair chance. Others may play for hours hoping to enjoy it and just never really do. Whatever, at least there was an attempt. I think many people do try, but I think many people simply just do not. There is a mix, and I don't think anything I've said before goes against that.

FF is obviously the most popular RPG series on this board. Second place is probably Kingdom Hearts followed by some other Square-based game. RPG-wise, this is a rather Square-oriented board in many ways, which I don't think is a bad thing. I say this only because it leads me to this: if this board had a huge Vandal Hearts fanbase or Beyond the Beyond fanbase or Arc the Lad or even Growlanser, I'd be doing the same thing. None of which are even remotely related to Square-Enix or Final Fantasy.

There are many, many, many RPGs out there I do not like, but why talk about them when only a handful of people here really know much about them at all? As such, I'm stuck venting any real frustrations towards one series because that's really all there is to talk about. Thus, I don't have any real balance here.

The only games I can really profess any dislike about are games that actually get more than a few posts in their threads... Generally they're not talked about here. I can't really look like I dislike anything else when there's nothing here about it and so this really just becomes me against the varying FF fans, which is not something I want in the first place. I'd rather be in a thread talking about a game I'm really enjoying, like I've done with SMT:N... but even that is only with the same few people. Even in there, however, I am open to admitting it's not for everyone and it doesn't do a lot of things people may enjoy.

I've not been making as broad of generalizations over Final Fantasy and its players as it seems people think I am. I don't know how to make it any more clear lol... so here is a summary of my main point all along that I don't think has anything mean or implicative in it:

"Many people do not look past FF games for whatever reason and I feel they may be missing out on the other, lesser known RPGs that I personally enjoy more."

I edited this to be far shorter because most of it just wasn't needed. I think my point is made, but who knows.

[satan665]

I'd say that when the Final Fantasy games are good, their really really good and when they aren't then they are mediocre.

Final Fantasy X I thought was one of the best games for PS2 so far. I think that the voice acting was excellent, and the story was one of my favorites in any game. Having good voices and music really put a game on the next level. The battle system and leveling system were pretty neat too, although I wish they gave you more freedom in how you leveled the characters. The games overall have been tending to be more linear (having to go from town A to town B...) but there aren't too many games that aren't like that.

FFX-2 was fun, but not quite different enough compared to X. The story was a little weak and it was pretty much a way to hold you over til the next game comes out. I liked it, but not really comparable to some of the great games.

I don't think I've played a game yet (RPG) with better stories than FFX or FF7, but I'm not really a huge RPG player. Games like Tales of Symphonia are pretty good, but not really on the same level as a good final fantasy game.

[James]

[color=#707875]You've made your point, Tony, but your posts have historically come across as sending the message that the "uneducated masses" are the ones who are delving into Final Fantasy, at least as far as OtakuBoards goes. You only have to look back at nearly all of your posts on the subject, to find some kind of reference to that.

I'm completely willing to admit it if I've misinterpreted that -- in fact, I'd be very glad if that is true, because as I mentioned earlier, Final Fantasy is not some kind of illegitimate choice, nor necessarily a choice that people make simply because they don't know any better.

I do agree with you that most people are going to go with what they feel comfortable with. I would venture to say that most Final Fantasy players [i]aren't[/i] familiar with other series and therefore, they go with what they know.

However, I would disagree about the premise that Final Fantasy is some kind of mass-market trash in the RPG genre. As someone who [i]does[/i] play a variety of RPG titles, I don't feel that Final Fantasy can simply be lumped into that category. But as I've also mentioned, it is very difficult to put the entire series into one basket, considering the variations between individual games.

Your latest post seems far more reasonable and conciliatory. But I feel that it is slightly different to what you've traditionally posted when it comes to Final Fantasy. So, I don't know if I'm the only one coming away with that impression, but that has been the basis for my response thusfar (other than to discuss the series in general, anyway).[/color]

[Semjaza]

Well, I think in that case, it's mostly two things: 1.) stuff on messageboards can go so many ways without a voice to hear or the chance to react to others' points instantly like you could in an AIM environment and 2.) I know I tend to sensationalize things in order to make a point. Usually when I'm in "rant" mode like that, I tend to exaggerate my dislikes because that's just my style of writing. I find it humorous, but that's me lol. It's not really to be taken at complete face value, at least not to the extremity that one might be able to take it. I realize I've put myself into the "Local FF Hater" position, lol...

I don't really think Final Fantasy is mass market trash. I would call a lot of the changes to it over the past decade a mean to make it more marketable, but that's not necessarily a bad thing... because in many ways, it has stayed true to several of its roots. I respect that much about it. And really, before Square's changes to the series, RPGs themselves were just non-marketable niche titles in many ways. They have broken that stereotype. It's double-edged, really.

In any case, I must once again, say how interested I am in FFXII. It seems like a fundamental change to the series, much like the series was fundamentally changed around the advent of FFVI (I think VI started that, not VII personally) towards its current movie-like form. I think that XII will actually bridge the gap between what I want in a FF game and what the current fans want in FF games. I hope so, anyway.

[James]

[color=#707875]Ah, cool, that makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree with you about Final Fantasy XII. I have traditionally found that with Final Fantasy games, I am unable to get the best of both worlds. What I mean is, if I like the story I usually dislike the battle system. Or vice versa. The only game to really buck that trend was Final Fantasy VII. The games from VIII through X were always a double-edged sword for me in that sense.

However, XII looks like it may be a title that interests me in both areas. Everything I have seen in relation to the battle system looks interesting, to say the least. And I'm hoping that I'm right in saying that the story [i]can't[/i] be less interesting than Final Fantasy X's plot. I don't know if I'm in the minority when it comes to that position, but at the very least, I'm hoping that XII will be enough of a plot departure to gain my interest.

The fact that XII will apparently not include some ridiculous forced love story is music to my ears, that much I can tell you.[/color]

[Semjaza]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']The fact that XII will apparently not include some ridiculous forced love story is music to my ears, that much I can tell you.[/color][/quote]

Tell me about it. I don't mind love stories, but I don't think that Final Fantasy has historically dealt with them very well. They usually seem really awkward to me if they try to make it obvious... and if they don't try and make it obvious, people try to force this relationship through assumptions and the game's own vague ideas lol.

In FFXII, the main character already has a steady girlfriend. I think that's great, especially since I've been given the impression that they have dorky arguments. It reminds me of FFIV right away in that sense.

What's really interested me is the involvement of Matsuno, who some might recognize as the guy responsible for Vagrant Story. Good news, in my opinion. I can't say I'm very into a few of the main character designs... but luckily their wimpyness seems to be made up for by some of the tougher looking characters lol.

[James]

[color=#707875]I had only played a little of Vagrant Story; I found the battle system somewhat annoying at times, but other than that I really came away with a fairly neutral impression of the game. In other words, I didn't either hate or love it.

Having said that, Matsuno seems to be interested in reimagining the Final Fantasy franchise, so to speak. My hope is that he will keep the best traditions of the last few games alive, while still repairing the problems that have been apparent in the last few games.

I haven't been reading much about XII though, as I don't want to spoil it too much. But what you mentioned about the steady girlfriend is great.

One of the things I disliked most about Final Fantasy VIII and X in particular, is that the love stories seemed insanely forced and pointless. Squall annoyed me as a character; he was highly stereotypical and too angsty for me. And it seemed kind of implausible that he and Rinoa would get together. If that were real, I'd have imagined that Rinoa (being obviously far more mature and level-headed) would have brushed him aside in the blink of an eye.

In Final Fantasy X, I also felt that the love story was incredibly forced. Tidus and Yuna are such different characters and in some cases it seemed a little odd that they'd be together. Perhaps this was compounded by Yuna's awful voice over, I don't know. I would have been more inclined to see Tidus and Rikku get together or something, or better yet, to see [i]nobody[/i] get together.

At least the player had somewhat of a choice in Final Fantasy VII (is the rumor that you can date Barret at the Gold Saucer true? lol). I remember frequently rejecting Aeris in favor of Tifa. Aeris was incredibly, incredibly lame. At least Tifa seemed to exist on planet Earth.[/color]

[Guest Daemon March]

I like the series overall, but I'd have to say that it has kinda declined over the years. It seems to have had its climax with FFVII (even though I like VIII the best). Generally, though, it seems to have gone downhill since then. I've played them all, and I own FFI on Nintendo (the original =D)

[Guest Zenger]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]Before I say anything, If you post, please say more than "FF rulez" or "FF suckz" and don't flame anyone with different views. It makes this repetitive.

I personally have never had fun with this series at all. I don't care if it has a gripping storyline, that's not what games are about. they are about FUN. I see no fun in doing some press this button and then this one and someone might die. It's a chore to play.[/QUOTE]

Teh... It's a little more strategy than press two buttons. The only thing I can think of is that you really don't like RPGs in general. That's pretty much what an RPG is, or most anyway. Go into the battle, you give commands to your characters, and they kill things. And you say that the storyline isn't want a game is about? If you ask me, the storyline is one of the major parts that make up an RPG. If it doesn't have a good storyline, then why play a game in which the point is to take the of a character on his/her "epic quest". I'm not blaming you for your views, but think about what an RPG is for a minute and you might understand.