Anime Can you tell whether or not a Japanese seiyuu is a good actor?

[Dagger]

One of the reasons I try to be open-minded about English dubs is that I don't wholly trust my ability to judge Japanese voice actors and actresses. It's fairly easy to determine when some character is horribly miscast, but I simply don't think I'm capable of picking up on really subtle vocal nuances that might ring false to someone fluent in Japanese. It's my opinion that one will almost always unconsciously be harder on those acting in one's native language than those acting in a foreign language--particularly when that language is structurally different.

Do you agree or disagree? Are there any Japanese vocal performances in anime that you would point to as being [I]obviously[/I] bad--or, conversely, obviously excellent?

~Dagger~

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I find it easy to tell if an actor is generally too much of a whiney, high-pitched chipmunk or an over-manic psychopath, but I'm sure I miss alot of poor acting jobs.

However, I find that being unable to tell whether or not some one is acting well in another language is better than knowing they sound utterly intolerable in English. If they sound good to my Anglophone ears, I'd rather hear them then something completely different.

There are certain things, like overplaying the flowerly words or slang a character uses, that it would be basically impossible for some one who didn't speak Japanese to pick up on, when it comes to basically crappy dialogue met by even the best of [i]seiyuu[/i], also.

You have to admit, though, that certain voices just pop out and scream, "I'm frigging AWESOME!!!" when you hear them for the first time.

My favourite Taishi's voice is simply hilarious to listen to because, despite the language barrier, you can tell that he's an incredible uber-geek who uses flowery and often silly expressions and words just by hearing that incredible "look at me, I'm a complete embarrassment to my friends, simply because of my overzealous nature!" voice of his.
Another character whose voice you can just tell works perfectly is Gai-sensei from Naruto.

Both of these characters are meant to be very overplayed to begin with (this is made obvious by their roles in the story), but you can still get that shot of personality from hearing their lines, even without translation.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[OtakuSennen]

[color=navy]The way I see it, an actor is good if he or she is convincing. When something is in a foreign language, with various dialects and customs, it's sort of hard to sort through the good and the bad. Facial expressions and body language can help in non-animated entertainment, but with anime it's sort of difficult. You can still distinguish annoying from cool-sounding, but you can't automatically dismiss a seiyuu because their character sounds annoying (assuming it fits the character). In animation, a lot of characters are made to sound annoying.

I do think that if a character's voice is unique the seiyuu deserves some major props. Far too many characters sound like duplicates, and if somebody can come up with something that stands out and doesn't make you want to blow your brains out, that can be a positive attribute.[/color]

[James]

[color=#707875]My basic feeling is that if you can't speak the language, you're not going to be able to accurately judge how good or bad the actor is. Of course, you can determine whether you like the voice or not...but that's a little different.

For me, I often find that I dislike the Japanese voices in anime, simply because I often don't like the emphasis that is used in various sentences. Even the darker, brooding male leads can occasionally get very whiny and high-pitched, at the most odd moments.

That may be completely normal to a Japanese audience, but as someone who has never grown up with the language around me in daily life, it comes across as very jarring at times. As a result, my suspension of disbelief is...well, not suspended. ~_^

This is why I often prefer dubs. However, dubs are much easier to criticize because I understand the language. So as a result, dubs can be a mixed bag for me; some are amazing, some are ear-splittingly over-the-top. It's very difficult, I think, and ultimately it really comes down to personal taste for me (and perhaps my interpretation of the character).[/color]

[Sol-Blade]

Well I personally can't say that I can judge a japanese actor (Voice-over...whatever) because I don't know the language. Not a single word, so I perfer the english dubs over the subs. I don't mind reading subtitles, but the Japanese language can be..."distracting" at times. Not to offend the culture, since I admit that I don't understand Japanese but only knowing English and no other language, foreign sounds are rather annoying to me. Again, I am not trying to sound ignorant, it's just personal peference. But that's not to say that the english dubs are excellent. By all means...they are far from that.

The problem that I see, is that some english voice-over are, in layman's terms; [i]horrible[/i]. I can look at a character, and sort of imagine what he/she will sound like...just to have that image shattered by a piercing noise that sends chills down my spine. Face it, some people just don't fit the part. They can try, but they almost ruin it entirely. I almost want to mute the TV sometimes! But some can pull it off rather convincingly.

Now rather off-topic, but I actually do perfer OST's in their orginal form (In Japanese), because if you haven't noticed a recent trend of some OST's being re-released in English...they don't really sound as good. Not talking about bad singer's, I am talking about the mood or feeling the song gives off. I recently heard an English version of one of my favorite songs, ever. [b]Hemisphere[/b] sung by Maaya Sakamoto from RahXephon. Now the english version didn't quite sound as catchy or as exciting as the orginal did. Who sung the new version, I don't know/care.

Basically to sum my thought's up, [I]If it ain't broke, don't fix it.[/I] :D

[Solo Tremaine]

[quote name='Sol-Blade]Now rather off-topic, but I actually do perfer OST's in their orginal form (In Japanese), because if you haven't noticed a recent trend of some OST's being re-released in English...they don't really sound as good. Not talking about bad singer's, I am talking about the mood or feeling the song gives off. I recently heard an English version of one of my favorite songs, ever. [b]Hemisphere[/b'] sung by Maaya Sakamoto from RahXephon. Now the english version didn't quite sound as catchy or as exciting as the orginal did. Who sung the new version, I don't know/care.[/quote][COLOR=#503F86]I don't think it's because it's been translated into English that makes it bad- it's the fact that it was written for Japanese lyrics in the first place. Since the intonations, emphasis and grammatical structure are completely different to English, it's not surprising that trying to sing along in the same style would seem out of place. You only need to listen to the Magic Knight Rayeath openings to see what it sounds like when you transplant English lyrics into a Japanese song.

But really they follow exactly the same conventions- you can just better understand what they're saying. I actually prefer the English MKR songs to the Japanese ones, not just because the voice is nicer on the ears, but because it hasn't tried to re-write the song in any way by making it rhyme and conform to usual English song conventions.

But something like Hemisphere I'd be loathe to listen to because I knew the song beforehand and like it so much. But if somoene created a piece with exactly the same orchestration, there's no reason why it couldn't be as good in Enlgish if it was written properly. After all, most of the .hack//SIGN songs are written in English and they are simply lovely.

But getting back to the voices- some Japanese voices I love listening to because they have a lovely softness to them, particularly the men. And sometimes you can hear the emotion in their voices- it's usually most noticeable when they have to cry. Crying is universal in any language, so it's easier to tell when a voice-actor/seiyuu is putting really good, deep emotion into his character than not. For example, I think Wolfwood's seiyuu does a better job of crying than his English counterpart (in the Episode 'Paradise').

But I don't pretend to know Japanese, and because I'm not familiar with the kind of voices they use it can be a nice alternative to a dub that has a particularly annoying English voice. I couldn't stand the English kids in Final Fantasy: Unlimited so I switched to watching the Japanese dialogue. And while their voice-acting might not have been any better, I didn't mind because a) I couldn't tell, and b) the voices were easier on the ear. That's what I tend to look for most.

Generally I'll go for an English dub regardless. I can't understand why people are needlessly damning about them irrespective of whether it's actually good or not.[/COLOR]

[Panda]

Judging if a seiyuu is a good actor is difficult if you are not use to the language. Little things like the different characters' speech patterns that will be lost on someone who isn't accustomed to the language. What sounds weird to those who only speak english will be common place in Japanese. Like how voices, especially female voices, get higher when they are excited. I can tell you from experience with my mom and her sisters that when you get a group of Japanese women together having fun, the sound of their voices could shatter glass!

A perfect example of a seiyuu's voice acting skill that will be lost on those who don't speak Japanese would be accents. In Ranma 1/2 there is the Juusenkyo Guide. Many of you may have notice that the english language VA has a Chinese accent, well so does the Japanese seiyuu. The seiyuu's accent is very well done and actually quite funny to listen too. Regional dialects and foreign accents of the seiyuus will most likely be overlooked which doesn't give them the credit they deserve.

Voice acting skills in the primary language you speak is the easiest thing to judge. Judging a foreign language voice acting is something many of us do not have the adequate experience and grasp with the language to do with confidence.

[Monkey_Orange]

[COLOR=DarkOrange][QUOTE]It's my opinion that one will almost always unconsciously be harder on those acting in one's native language than those acting in a foreign language--particularly when that language is structurally different.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree.

I also tend to keep an open mind on English dubbings before I watch the show. So, what is about the English voices that makes me cringe? Sadly, I'd have to say that for me, it's about vocal typecasting.

Vocal typecasting. This issue isn't always an issue. The problem that I have mainly occurs when I recognize the voices from 'kiddyfied' shows while I'm watching something else. My mind automatically relates the 2 characters to eachother. Of course, this issue also depends on the licensing studio. For this very reason, I have troubles watching anything dubbed by ADV and Central Park Media in English. Ugh.

Ironically, I have no problems with this issue when I'm watching the show in Japanese. In fact, I like it when I can recognize certain voices. Strange. I guess it's because since I can NOT understand the language, that I enjoy listening to the actual sound of the voice.

So how do I judge a good seiyuu? Very simple, with no deep analysis. The sound. Period. Does the seiyuu's sound match up with the character's face and personality? Is their voice convincing? Do they sound nice? If yes, then that's a good seiyuu. It doesn't really go much deeper than that ^^;;

[QUOTE]A perfect example of a seiyuu's voice acting skill that will be lost on those who don't speak Japanese would be accents. [/QUOTE]

Hah! Although I don't really understand Japanese, I DO know what you mean. My example would be K from [B]Gravitation[/B]. Seriously, if the stuff that's coming from his mouth is NOT American-accented Japanese...then I wouldn't know what else is. Hehe

But yes. All in all, I enjoy listening to Seiyuu...unless I'm too lazy to read the subtitles--which DOES happen, occasionally
[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

I've noticed that watching anime raw is a considerably different experience from watching it subtitled. Subtitles let you know what sort of tone and inflection to "search" for in the character's voice--without them, it can be startlingly difficult to tell which emotion is being conveyed. Without subtitles to focus on, and only a very vague idea of what the characters are saying, I find that the Japanese dialogue invariably sounds a little stilted. It's amazing how knowing precisely what the dialogue means changes my perception of a seiyuu's perfomance... and even then, I feel like I'm unconsciously trying to make his or her voice fit the emotional rise and fall of someone speaking in a Romance language.

[quote name='Solo Tremaine][COLOR=#503F86']Generally I'll go for an English dub regardless. I can't understand why people are needlessly damning about them irrespective of whether it's actually good or not.[/COLOR][/quote]

Amen. Some dubs are good, some are bad, and some easily surpass the Japanese-language track. I love having the freedom to see two interpretations of the same characters and script.

~Dagger~

[Wolfsrain141]

Usually I don't pay attention to the voices of people inside of an anime but mostly the story, which to me is what's important. If I actually had the Japanese and English version of an anime then I would be able to tell, though without both I wouldn't have the slightest idea but I wouldn't really care.
Actually on second thought now that I think about it I can tell some voices in English dub's that are bad. For example take Marty from Shaman King. He's a junior high student when his voice sometimes sound's like a a full grown man's and at some points it sounds like a child's voice. I don't know though maybe they just do that to add to the humor of the show.

[Pumpkin]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1] Just like to point out, I don't watch dubs. Most of what is put out is changed and I'd rather watch the original with Japanese voices. thats just what i prefer, i prefer japanese voices over english. To my experience most dubbs have horrible voices that just dont go well with anime, most make me cringe. The only one I ever kinda liked was Trigun, i liked Vash's voice and his laugh XD As for how you can tell if a seiyuu is doing his job or not? I dont think you can tell in a professional sort of way but you can look at the characters expression and if you personally think his voice suits his character. its all a matter of opinion. you might not think spike's japanese voice suits him in cowboy bebop, and that is alittle too deep or you might think inu yasha's voice in english is too funny. Either way it all comes down to your own personal opinion. So heres mine. I would rather watch subtitled anime because those are the voices they were made with, and i find japanese voices to be more fun and amusing :D english just sounds all-too boring. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[Dagger]

A recent show whose Japanese vocal cast works particularly well is School Rumble, the latest addition to a long and venerable line of wacky high school comedies. Ami Koshimizu plays the female lead, Tenma-chan. It's a really quirky, high-energy role and she just sounds great, regardless of whether her character is stalking her crush or gibbering over the latest episode of her favorite samurai drama.

Sometimes I measure (or try to measure) a seiyuu's acting ability by how good he is at modifying his voice. If I can't instantly recognize someone as being "the person who played ____ ____ and ____," that's probably a good thing.

~Dagger~