Kentucky Fried Creulty

[Chaos]

I just have to wonder what dumbasses first worried about chickens going to a KFC-supporting slaughterhouse in the first place.

Anyway, we as people have in the past few decades suddenly sprouted a bouqet of flowers out our ***** for animals' rights. I mean, really, a chicken squaks like you shoved a firecracker down its throat if you flinch at it. Sure, beating a chicken with a shovel might be a little painful, but, come on. There are much better ways to spend non-profit donations. Not to mention that the damn bastards are going to be sectioned off anyway, I don't see why we have to shed a tear over our deep-fried two-piece dinner.

Personally, I laughed my *** of when I read about the guy spiking the chicken. I might wanna check out that video now...


Edit: Also, did you know that chickens often react violently when they have their throats slit? I'd have never have guessed that. Screw instincts, I figured the chickens would have pulled out a magazine and silently bled to death while reading an interesting article.

Please, people, this is standard PETA propaganda. It shows the worst of any light. They said these chickens were being hurled around like it was a game of poultry dodgeball. The chickens were lightly tossed, not pitched like Brett Farve has his hand up their shaft.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I saw that Chaos had replied and was like "Oh, God".

Anyway, it's the principle of the thing. Unnecessary. Wanton. Cruelty.

Hope someone spikes [i]him[/i] onto a conveyor belt. Hope he loses his job. Whatever, lol.[/size]

[Chaos]

[QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]I saw that Chaos had replied and was like "Oh, God".

Anyway, it's the principle of the thing. Unnecessary. Wanton. Cruelty.

Hope someone spikes [i]him[/i] onto a conveyor belt. Hope he loses his job. Whatever, lol.[/size][/QUOTE]


I love having that affect. :D


You would rather have a hard-working American lose his job because he spiked a chicken? If anything, the damn thing would have been lucky to have a broken neck so it wouldn't have to react violently when it got its throat slit.


For God's sake, enough of this *****-footed tiptoeing. I'd say the world is in a damn awful shape when we raise a debacle about how our chicken gets killed.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I couldn't agree more. But, interracial marriages are worse, and as for those damn homosexuals...well.

...

~_^

On one hand I do see what you're saying, but you can't really condone their behaviour.[/size]

[Chaos]

Oh, I sure as hell can. They're working a job that they most likely got because they needed money. They have to be pecked, clawed, flapped, and squawked at for hours on end. You should be surprised you don't see one of them with a torch to burn their eyes out. I've been around chickens for an extended period of time, and I can tell you, I can respect a man that can deal with them on a daily basis.

And I'll pretend I didn't see the other part of that post.

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=wiccansamurai]Ok, yeah, we have intelligence too. Thanks for reminding me. But, how do you know that's how animals live? Do you really think they can't remember pain from the past just because they can't tell us they do?

Still, one of the major things that set us apart from animals is morals. They're plenty of smart animals. Chickens aren't one of them, but that's like saying, though this is an extreme, we should have a prejudice for people with mental disabilities. Sure, they won't end up being food, but some of the basic concepts are there.

They just shouldn't do that to animals, even if for the mere fact its going to start a controversy.[/QUOTE]

The controversy isn?t a self evident property, but the result of inordinate emotional responses. It?s easy to personify chickens the same way we personify humans. The fact is, chickens may or may not even be aware that they exist. They are functioning along strict biological responses that ordinarily stimulate flight and flee responses? Banging the chicken across a table? I don?t want to sound too cruel, but if my throat were about to get slit, please, knock me HARD across the face before you do it. I?ve gotten nailed in the head by some pretty solid objects; the pain usually follows a strange, senseless shock.

I don?t have much pity for animals, there?s no reason we shouldn?t eat as many as you want. I mean? evolutionarily we have the right to eat them, in most religions we have free reign over animal populations, and most philosophical arguments are proponent of survival based on meat-eating. Chickens don?t have much of a memory; it has been proven, just as they do not have much of a cognitive thought process. Why? What the hell would a Chicken, who?s only task in life is to reproduce and die, have any use for a memory? Sure, it may have a brief memory related to response to stimuli; however it is pathetically insignificant; even if they could tell us anything, they wouldn?t know what the hell to say. Probably something along the lines of ?Eat eat eat, eat eat eat, cluck cluck cluck cluck, scratch ground, eat?sleep, sleep, sleep, cluck cluck cluck, mate mate mate, eat eat, lay egg, lay egg, cluck cluck die.?

And as for something I saw earlier about free-range chickens? what difference does that make? You honestly think they would perceive the change in surroundings? There?s no evidence that chickens actually feel the equivalent to ?happiness??. So why are we trying to make them so comfortable? The chickens aren?t the ones with the problems, PETA is.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Question: Are we better than chickens?

Question: Do we possess standards?

Question: Was there any need for beating the chicken?

Question: Was it morally justifiable?

Question: Do you people deserve to come back as chickens?

Answers: Y : Y : N : N : Y[/size]

[DeathBug]

You know what this really comes down to?

Would you be willing to pay an additional 25 cents on every chicken product you buy to increase the quality of life for the birds before they're slaughtered?

I would, but that's me, personally.

[Gavin]

[size=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Personally I'm all for the fair treatment of animals, however in this case I think it's taking the point of animal welfare a little too far. However in saying that a person who is deliberately cruel to an animal for no reason just sickens me, as a good friend once raised, a person who can be cruel to an innocent animal could easily do it to a child or another person.

These chickens were at a slaughterhouse for KFC, they were going to die anyway and as such ethical treatment of them isn't really a concern. Every time you eat a piece of chicken, a burger, or something that required the death of a living animal do you question how it died and if it was an ethical death.

Chaos raised a good point, chickens are a bit mad in groups and I have a lot of respect for anyone who can work with them on a daily basis, especially in a place like a slaughter house. As per the last part of Deathbug's post I too would be willing to pay the extra 25 cents however I don't think that would make any difference.[/SIZE]

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='Kane']a person who can be cruel to an innocent animal could easily do it to a child or another person.[/quote]

As if there are guilty animals? That's quite an overstatement. How you treat animals is entirely different from how you treat people.

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=DeathBug]You know what this really comes down to?

Would you be willing to pay an additional 25 cents on every chicken product you buy to increase the quality of life for the birds before they're slaughtered?

I would, but that's me, personally.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for bringing a little sense into this discussion, DeathBug. Your posts are always a breath of fresh air. ^_^

I'm a little surprised that most of the people who've replied to this thread have taken an attitude of absolute indifference. Chickens are certainly a lesser problem than, say, poverty and world hunger, but wanton cruelty toward weaker creatures (no matter how annoying!) reflects rather poorly on human nature. Although I don't find the plight of chickens very emotionally moving, I know I'd be considerably more upset if we replaced the chickens with, say, small yappy dogs--which are frequently no less stupid than farm poultry. If their only fate is to be eaten, even the dumbest, least self-aware animals deserve a quick, clean death.

~Dagger~

[Gavin]

[quote name='wrist cutter']As if there are guilty animals? That's quite an overstatement. How you treat animals is entirely different from how you treat people.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]I meant innocent in the context of an animal is not inherantly evil, like a small child it will not commit wrong on purpose. As for the second part of that statement I think it is not entirely different, how you treat a domesticated animal like a kitten or pup for instance is quite similar to how most people would treat a small child. People who treat small animals, actually people who can treat any animal cruelly are quite capable of being just as malevolent to anyone because it's in their nature. You may disagree Wrist Cutter but I think the vast majority of people would agree with that point. [/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#707875]I think that Dagger's post hits the nail on the head, when it comes to this issue.

On the one hand, let's not over-estimate the value of chickens. lol We really don't need to give them five star luxury, when all they want to do is eat, lay eggs and poop. ~_^

On the other hand, we don't need to deliberately make their lives a living hell. We might as well give them the basic kind of environment that they'd have under normal circumstances (ie: free range versus putting them in tiny little cages where they are severely malnourished). This approach is probably also better for the end result (ie: making the meat superior; I imagine that a healthy, fat chicken is better than a scrawny and diseased bag of bones).

(Note: The title of this thread would be cool if "cruelty" were spelled correctly. That kind of kills any impact it may have had.)[/color]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] Well, I don't really care about the chickens enough to start a nationwide protest, but to the losers saying it's ok to torture chickens because they're going to die anyway:

Your pet's going to die anyway, let's just beat the hell out of, it doesn't matter. They're animals, too.[/color]

[chobit]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]Thank you for bringing a little sense into this discussion, DeathBug. Your posts are always a breath of fresh air. ^_^

I'm a little surprised that most of the people who've replied to this thread have taken an attitude of absolute indifference. Chickens are certainly a lesser problem than, say, poverty and world hunger, but wanton cruelty toward weaker creatures (no matter how annoying!) reflects rather poorly on human nature. Although I don't find the plight of chickens very emotionally moving, I know I'd be considerably more upset if we replaced the chickens with, say, small yappy dogs--which are frequently no less stupid than farm poultry. If their only fate is to be eaten, even the dumbest, least self-aware animals deserve a quick, clean death.

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

And chickens aren't the only one.Pet food people like IAMS have also started mis-using their pets.

"For nearly 10 months in 2002 and early 2003, a PETA investigator went undercover at an Iams contract testing laboratory and discovered a dark and sordid secret beneath the wholesome image of the dog- and cat-food manufacturer: dogs gone crazy from intense confinement to barren steel cages and cement cells, dogs left piled on a filthy paint-chipped floor after having chunks of muscle hacked from their thighs; dogs surgically debarked; horribly sick dogs and cats languishing in their cages, neglected and left to suffer with no veterinary care."

[Brasil]

"They're going to die anyway, so unnecessary torture is okay."
"Pain is normal."
"Death is normal."
"Food chain."

Give me a break, lol.

There is absolutely no need at all to put those chickens through that kind of abuse before their heads got chopped off. To say that they're going to die anyway, as if that's some type of justification for spiking them, is utterly asinine. Yes, they're chickens. Yes, they're being breeded so I can eat my McChicken sandwich, but that doesn't mean that kind of treatment is warranted.

It's one thing to feel indifferent about it. It's something entirely else to think it's all right. I've never read anything so absurd.

Chickens aren't humans, obviously, but even then, they deserve some level of respect in how they're handled, at least. I'd hope this is just common sense, but apparently, it isn't.

[DeathKnight]

[color=crimson]People have a problem with tolerating an opinion different than theirs, apparently. lol.

[quote name='Pumpkin']I have to say I get everything Baron was saying, would if someone slaughtered your cat and just said "Well it was going to die anyway?" and ate it. Yeah you'd feel pretty disgusted right.[/quote]

Yes, because the cat was not produced or birthed with the purpose of it being consumed as food. I never stated that the fact it is mortal condones any sort of "torture"- that would be idiotic. If something is birthed and it's specific purpose is to be cooked and eaten, I don't care what you do prior to it's death.

[quote name='Kane']People who treat small animals, actually people who can treat any animal cruelly are quite capable of being just as malevolent to anyone because it's in their nature.[/quote]

As I said, I respect nature- but I do it logically.

If you think I'm some sort of mad man just because the way my meal was treated before it was killed is of no concern to me, that's your choice.

[quote name='Maladjusted']Your pet's going to die anyway, let's just beat the hell out of, it doesn't matter. They're animals, too.[/quote]

*points up*

[quote name='Siren']I've never read anything so absurd.[/quote]

I'm glad! I hope I made your day. :)

Anyway. No one seemed to consider the fact I never said what I, personally, would do as a worker in this slaughter line. I wouldn't torture the chickens. If someone else wails on a chicken and enjoys himself, that's great for them. I'm not malevolent. I respect and care about nature, I try to avoid harming it. But these workers aren't me, are they?

I don't need [or want] to become a [strike]crazed[/strike] passionate advocate of chicken rights because, well- look at all of you. You all step in and do the work quite well, hm?

About IAMS, that is the sort of thing that I will [and do] care about. It's unfortunate that people cannot respect nature in settings like the ones we've talked about, but there are plenty of people just like the majority of you all. I don't have to do anything out of my way when there is already a social delirium growing about what corporations do to animals. I can hope that people start respecting nature more and not much else, as I am not in any position to affect or change the way things work.

If some of you think you are, that's great- please, on my behalf, go do something for nature.[/color]

[Vicky]

[SIZE=1][B]Chickens who were birthed for food... so I guess that means they can be tortured? If you're going to kill something because that's what's going to happen anyway, then shouldn't it be done quickly? Chickens aren't human, yes I'll agree, but killing a chicken to eat it doesn't mean it should be tortured. Animals do kill other things to survive, but you don't see a Lion trying to throw its food around before killing it. I guess as humans have evolved they developed a need to torture animals needlessly before they die. I swear, sometimes I think the only thing that's going to kill us off is ourselves.

It's not true that humans only torture animals. Over time, has anyone noticed that there's been a lot more violence, murders and whatever? I think that humanity has started to develop a need to kill and torture for no reason. Now I'm not saying there's no reason to kill a chicken to eat it but what I am saying like many people before me is that there's no need to torture a chicken before killing it. Just because animals can't have a say doesn't mean they should be tortured, and as stupid as this may sound, if chickens did have a say then I don't think we'd have that many KFC's around.

I find it sick that anyone would be amused by smacking a chicken on a wall. For one, it's the most pathetic form of entertainment and for two I'm sure if that person was a lower creature being thrown at a wall he wouldn't like it. How would you think animals would feel being treated like **** because they're a sort of "lower being"? If something was higher than us in this world and we were subject to cruelty for amusement I'm sure we'll reaaally enjoy ourselves. If we're so high and almighty compared to animals then shouldn't we start ACTING like that? When I say we I don't mean everyone, of course, it's just the way I like to put it.

I don't have much to say about my point, really. I'm all for animal rights and I could hate myself for being a human but then I wouldn't want to be an animal, either.[/SIZE][/B]

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Did that "infiltrator" talk to any of the workers? No, he didn't. He showed a video with probably a few scattered instances of hitting a chicken against a cage, and edited out hours of normal work. You're taking this PETA guys opinion as fact, when nobody has talked to the workers. I doubt that they are hitting the chickens for the pure pleasure of it. Those animals are no longer seen as living creatures to those workers, they are just something that has to be worked with. A misbehaving chicken is no different to them than a machine that isn't doing its job. The ideal chicken would sit in one place quietly waiting for death. Good chicken. If a machine starts to malfunction, what do you do? You smack it until it starts working again. I doubt that there is anything malicious in the workers' intent, and all of you are just assuming that this PETA guy is painting an unbiased picture of the factory. Ha ha ha, an unbiased PETA person. I crack myself up.[/color][/font][/b]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Adahn']Did that "infiltrator" talk to any of the workers? No, he didn't. He showed a video with probably a few scattered instances of hitting a chicken against a cage, and edited out hours of normal work. You're taking this PETA guys opinion as fact, when nobody has talked to the workers.[/quote]Let's consider, then, the conditions in meat-production plants...cattle, for example. You've read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, I'd imagine? There is no exaggeration in that novel. The slaughterhouses are actually like that. Some of my dad's friends worked in slaughterhouses back in the 60s and 70s, and to this day, they refuse to eat meat.

Considering that the conditions we see in this video footage are very, very likely not exclusive to the approximately 15 minutes of the video footage itself, playing the "Michael Moore Tactics" card here doesn't work.

And...what other kinds of work would there be in a [i]slaughterhouse[/i]? C'mon, lol.

[QUOTE]I doubt that they are hitting the chickens for the pure pleasure of it.[/QUOTE]When a football player gets a TD, and spikes the football, are you saying there's more to it than just exhiliration, celebration, and a derivation of pleasure from it?

[quote]Those animals are no longer seen as living creatures to those workers, they are just something that has to be worked with. A misbehaving chicken is no different to them than a machine that isn't doing its job. The ideal chicken would sit in one place quietly waiting for death. Good chicken. If a machine starts to malfunction, what do you do? You smack it until it starts working again.[/quote]So, what you're saying here is...

Chicken:Slaughterhouse Worker::Computers:Programmers

I'm know that I'm not about to go throwing my CPU across the room if I keep getting the Blue Screen of Death.

[quote]I doubt that there is anything malicious in the workers' intent,[/quote]Is there some previously unrealized benefit to treating a chicken like a football? Does it help tenderize the meat? Does it improve the taste? Does it make it easier to puree?

Fact of the matter is, what we saw in the video was uncalled for, even from a slaughterhouse's POV. I seriously doubt that slapping chickens around, spiking them, throwing them into walls, floors, stepping on them, etc, is somehow going to improve production. It's wasted action, energy that doesn't need to be expelled, just like a few Smash Melee match videos I saw over the summer. Actions that are purely extraneous that do not serve any productive, objective purpose at all.

[quote]and all of you are just assuming that this PETA guy is painting an unbiased picture of the factory. Ha ha ha, an unbiased PETA person. I crack myself up.[/QUOTE]While I rarely agree with PETA's applications of their Ideologies, I think their core set of goals is admirable. They're looking to improve the quality of life--or at least increase the level of humane treatment--of animals. I don't see how anyone would have a problem with that.

I think the problem with PETA is that their Ideologies have been so skewed and highjacked lately by the Radicalist groups/people who value animals over humans.

Now, we've already established that there is really nothing else that goes on in slaughterhouses except for brutal, brutal work conditions and things that could be found in the deeper rings in Dante's Inferno. With this in mind, it's impossible to say that because it's a PETA worker/supporter/etc, we're getting some tainted, filtered window into the slaughterhouses. Bull.

If you were to go into any slaughterhouse across the country, you'd see the same kinds of conditions, and to a greater severity than that video.

"Biased," my -ss. If anything, they're only showing us a small excerpt of the horror, the horror.

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='vicky']How would you think animals would feel being treated like **** because they're a sort of "lower being"? [/quote]

They don't feel. They don't think "Well gee, this sucks. Hey, could you stop smacking me against a wall? It's a violation of my rights." You're acting like they're just humans that can't talk.

Stop acting like humanity has degraded to the point where all we do is go around torturing chickens. Like this is the first instance in human history where we've tortured animals. What about all the tortures performed on [i]humans[/i] throughout history? Why aren't you concerned at all about that? Heaven forbid we hurt a damn chicken though.

[eleanor]

[i][b]Posted by Deathknight[/b]

As I said, I respect nature- but I do it logically.

If you think I'm some sort of mad man just because the way my meal was treated before it was killed is of no concern to me, that's your choice.[/i]

[color=darkslateblue]What I meant by 'let's just beat up your pet etc. etc.' was that it's dumb to say it's ok to beat up chickens before they die because they're going to die anyway. I don't think your 'mad', I'll still eat plenty of chickens after reading this. I'm just saying it's sort of pointless and dumb to beat up chickens. I mean, what the hell... are they taking out stress or something? I mean, holy ****. Go punch a punching bag or something. [/color]

[Vicky]

[QUOTE=wrist cutter]They don't feel. They don't think "Well gee, this sucks. Hey, could you stop smacking me against a wall? It's a violation of my rights." You're acting like they're just humans that can't talk.

Stop acting like humanity has degraded to the point where all we do is go around torturing chickens. Like this is the first instance in human history where we've tortured animals. What about all the tortures performed on [i]humans[/i] throughout history? Why aren't you concerned at all about that? Heaven forbid we hurt a damn chicken though.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1][B]I didn't say humans had degraded to the point that we all go around torturing chickens. And I did mention about humans being totured through history, I just didn't put most of it in my post because this thread was mainly about the cruelty to chickens.

I guess if they don't feel and think, they're not living. In a way they are humans that can't talk, [I]in a way[/I]. They're being treated like muck because they "don't have rights" and are going to be killed anyway. I just don't see that as fair. There's no need to hurt something if it's going to die anyway, just let the damn thing be.

Oh, and I've also very concerned about the torture to humans as well. I think the torture on animals has stretched over to ourselves, and I'll be glad if I don't survive until I'm 15 (apparently, my brother and dad think I'll get myself killed before I'm 15, but that's totally irrelevent).[/SIZE][/B]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='vicky][SIZE=1][B]I didn't say humans had degraded to the point that we all go around torturing chickens. [/SIZE'][/B][/quote]

[quote name='vicky][SIZE=1][B] I guess as humans have evolved they developed a need to torture animals needlessly before they die.[/SIZE'][/B][/quote]

[color=green]That sounds very Kerry-esque?[/color]

[Soliel]

[quote name='Pumpkin][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1]Wow obviously you've never visited a factory or known someone who works with them. You think they say they do everything they state? No. Many bend the rules in so many ways. You should go to where they slaughter cows, half the time they arnt all the way sedated, sheep too, if you heard the screams i have you would think twice about that. But anyways, I think its wrong to blame PETA or anyone who is passionate about the way food is processed. First of all, its because the animals are treated like garbage and not handled with any proper care, which is secondly can be bad for your health because they dont even make the chicken properly. I don't think any animal should be throw around or slaughtered while being alive like that. I have to say I get everything Baron was saying, would if someone slaughtered your cat and just said "Well it was going to die anyway?" and ate it. Yeah you'd feel pretty disgusted right. I dont have anything against meat products either and not trying to encourage everyone to go vegetarian or anything, I think its more of the fact they want the horrible way of slaughtering to stop, cause in a way we are more like animals ourselves. We treat them in a in-humane way. [/FONT'][/SIZE][/quote]
[COLOR=GREEN]Um, actually I have witnessed slaughters before. There is a meat production plant right on my university's campus, and witnessing how they work is required by my major. I'm sorry if I come off sounding arrogant, but maybe you misunderstood my last post on this thread. I was not trying to demean PETA or any other such organizations. And I'm not one of those backwards country hicks who finds the HSA a nusance. In a way, it gives me peace of mind knowing that an animal shouldn't suffer before it's killed. All I was saying was that people shouldn't see extreme situations such as animal abuse as a norm for meat production. Yes, abuse does happen, I'm not saying it doesn't, but these situations are rare and illegal and should be reported to organizations such as USDA.

Okay, sorry I had to get that ranting out of my system.[/COLOR]