Star Wars 411

[Gavin]

[quote name='Siren']Kane, I think I mis-spoke, or at least wasn't clear about the whole "Editing Anakin's face" in RotJ. What I meant was that when Darth Vader's helmet is removed (we really should use Spoiler tags, but oh well, heh), Lucas is digitally altering the face, specifically the eyebrows and re-coloring the eyes to match Hayden Christiansen's. The Force Spirit is going to be totally re-done, from what I can tell, with Hayden Christiansen replacing Sebastian Shaw.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]Ah I follow you now, though my point remains the same, I'm repeating myself here when I say that I think Prowse physically plays an important part. I don't mean that in the obvious sense that he's the one who plays Darth Vader, what I mean is that seeing him underneath Vader's helmet and in turn seeing him as the Force Apparition allows us to fully see Anakin Skywalker. The fact that we will no longer see Old-Anakin means that the circle has been broken, we shall now only see the boy that Anakin was, and the angry and hatefilled Padawan who became Vader.

Seeing Old-Anakin rather than Padawan Anakin shows us that even when long seduced by the powers of the Dark Side there is still hope, his ancient spectral form along with Obi-Wan and Yoda show us that even in his old age Skywalker could defeat the Dark Side. I think this is another of Lucas's idiotic "improvements" which often do damage to the films, I had hoped he'd have learned his lesson with Solo's super human dodging skills.[/SIZE]

[quote=Siren]And on an unrelated note, I've had discussions in the past about how Luke falls to the Dark Side in RotJ, and Boba Fett (who was the Counterpoint in that debate) now agrees with me. I was recently going through RotJ, and one line of The Emperor's struck me:

"Strike him down and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete."

It occurred to me that if Luke is already on the Dark Side, his journey is complete before striking down Vader. So, I thought about it, and it'd be a rather important point to consider that has a significant impact on Luke's Dark Side/Light Side status in RotJ.

After musing over it, I've concluded that the "Dark Side" Palpatine speaks of isn't the Dark Side of the Force, necessarily, but more refers to the idea that The Empire, Palpatine, etc, is the Dark Side's other half...the...Non-Force Dark Side, if that makes sense.

As it stands, as Luke is poised over Vader, and throughout RotJ, Luke is Dark Side, as is Vader, but Vader still serves Palpatine, and Luke does not. Had Luke killed Vader, then he, like we are told by The Emperor himself, would have taken Vader's place, and his journey to the Dark Side would be completed, as he was Dark Side Force-wise, and after killing Vader, would be Dark Side Empire-wise.

I may not have explained that clearly...my head is absolutely pounding right now, and my sinuses aren't worth a damn, lol, so if you'd like me to clear it up later, I will.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, I also agree with the above sentiment, Luke clearly has crossed the path of the Dark Side in ROTJ, in it's early scenes we see him using his father's trademark Force Choke to debilitate two of Jabba's guards. His attire and demeanour show that he has left the teaching of the Old Jedi Order and is seeking his own way to finish his training regardless of where it may lead. In his fight with Vader in the second Death Star he gives into his anger to allow him to not just defeat Vader but come close to destroying him.

I think in ways if the Emperor had just kept his mouth shut Luke may have actually struck down Vader, we can see in their fight that he is intent on defeating Vader, Luke does so because he wants to save Leia but how sure of that can we be. Vader is responsible for killing many of Luke's friends and family, he killed Biggs, Obi-Wan his Uncle Ben and Aunt Beru. If fully consumed by his anger Luke may have gone and struck down Vader in revenge for all that he has done.

Now that is just my own personal take on it and I may be wrong but I do think that the Emperor may have made Luke think about what he was doing, after the Emperor talks Luke looks at the remains Vader's severed hand and then to his own. If Palpatine had stayed quiet and watched who knows what might have happened. [/SIZE]

[Dagger]

I'm not at all happy about the changes. Nevertheless, it would still be awfully nice to replace my old VHS box set with some shiny widescreen DVDs. I apologize greatly if this question has been asked and answered before, but has Lucas ever tried to explain why he's decided not to release the theatrical version on DVD? I don't really see what the harm would be in packaging the original trilogy along with the director's cut (or whatever one should call it) as part of some deluxe special-edition set.

~Dagger~

[Brasil]

Very good question, Dagger, and a very valid point, as well, because from what I've seen, both in the recent documentary and just from reading online, Lucas has not yet given a specific reason for not releasing the OT on DVD. We can really only theorize at this point, but I checked out a few user reviews of the DVD box set on Amazon.com, and it looks like the common belief is that the OT, in their original form, was "dead" to Lucas.

Of course, this comes from the mouths of people who both abhor the Special Editions, and also from those who love the new DVDs, so we can't really be sure of those statements' authenticity.

However, if you happened to see the documentary aired on A&E a few days ago, you'll find that most of the production of A New Hope was constantly plagued by technical errors and so forth, with droids constantly breaking down, visual effects stuttering, etc. The entire OT's production was also continually threatened by 20th Century Fox execs, as well.

So...I may have said this above, heh, I can certainly empathize with Lucas' desire to re-touch the OT. I know I certainly would be interested in going back and polishing it...I do that with my writing all the time, and I think that also applies to film. If given the chance to go back into some old short films I made in high school, I'd certainly re-do some things.

BUT, I would never, never say that this (the new versions of those short films) is the only copy I will endorse, or release, etc. Also, I probably will never agree with the scene inserts, because they do not add anything to the plot or characterizations.

So, I do think Lucas is making a mistake in refusing to release the O-OT (Original Original Trilogy) on DVD, and by not explaining why, he is raising more eyebrows than necessary, I think.

EDIT: I was just browsing on [url="http://www.msnbc.com"]www.msnbc.com[/url], and I saw this:

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6011380/][u]George Lucas Interview[/u][/url]

I find his reasoning for not releasing the O-OT on DVD to be quite selfish, lol.

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Hmm I'm guessing in the context of what Alex has said that we can also look forward to more of Lucas' numerous extra scenes in the new edition of the Old Trilogy. I don't know if he's just stupid or wants to see if he'll have better luck this time around with the added scenes though either way he's probably put them in. I just hope he's fixed some of the obvious insertions from the Special Edition.

I'm all for new scenes as long as they don't clearly stand out against what I remember in the Original Old Trilogy, such as Han and Greedo or Jabba appearing in A New Hope and going on the ?new? version of the end to [b]Return of the Jedi[/b]. To me it essentially ruins what made me fall in love with the series in the first place.

As for Dagger's comments I'm totally in agreement, Lucas should have released the Original Old Trilogy either separately as another Box Set or included in this New Edition. Hell I don't see why he merely didn't put in a system where you could watch it with or without the added scenes.

As for Lucas's comments on why he didn't release the Original Old Trilogy on DVD I totally agree with Alex, the way he even went so far as to dismiss what fans though was a little heartless in my opinion. If he intends to turn it into TV Movies like the Young Indiana Jones series I'd say we may see the TV Movie versions of the EU Novels as far as the New Jedi Order. Maybe this will be a good thing, maybe it won't, any other opinions ? [/SIZE]

[DuoMax]

It's unfortunate we won't get to see the original trilogy as it once was. It seems that he simply wants to save money by not releasing the originsl Original Trilogy. Ah well. And let it be known that I hate the NJO.

[Syk3]

Well, I for one am happy to finally see the series on DVD. I've been waiting for it to go to DVD for years now, for the quality, scene selection, and of course, extra features. I certainly don't think I will mind the small changes Lucas made, heh. Besides, it's been so long since I got to see it that I doubt I'd know the difference. My birthday is also only a couple days before the release, so I'm definitely asking for money for that, lol.

[Gavin]

[quote name='Syk3']Well, I for one am happy to finally see the series on DVD. I've been waiting for it to go to DVD for years now, for the quality, scene selection, and of course, extra features. I certainly don't think I will mind the small changes Lucas made, heh. Besides, it's been so long since I got to see it that I doubt I'd know the difference. My birthday is also only a couple days before the release, so I'm definitely asking for money for that, lol.[/quote]

[SIZE=1]Well I suppose I might be being a little over zealous in my comments, though my opinion of Lucas's additions will probably not change any time in the near future. Like anyone here I'm already waiting anxiously for it to come out on Monday, yes there are additions to it but that's still not stopped me from slobbering like a dog in anticipation.

Just out of pure curiosity what price are they charging for the DVD Trilogy near you ? For myself I have the option of either buying it from ShopIreland.ie for ?44 and I should have it within a few days of it being released, my other option is buying it from a few places near me but so far the best price I've seen is ?55 (I think) is it worth having it a few days early and paying ?11 extra ?[/SIZE]

[Syk3]

[QUOTE=Kane][size=1]Well I suppose I might be being a little over zealous in my comments, though my opinion of Lucas's additions will probably not change any time in the near future. Like anyone here I'm already waiting anxiously for it to come out on Monday, yes there are additions to it but that's still not stopped me from slobbering like a dog in anticipation.

Just out of pure curiosity what price are they charging for the DVD Trilogy near you ? For myself I have the option of either buying it from ShopIreland.ie for ?44 and I should have it within a few days of it being released, my other option is buying it from a few places near me but so far the best price I've seen is ?55 (I think) is it worth having it a few days early and paying ?11 extra ?[/size][/QUOTE]Monday? I'm pretty sure that it's coming Tuesday in the states. As for prices, I've seen a wide variety, as high as $70. On one site, I saw it for $50, but on walmart.com, the only store worth buying it from in my area, claims to sell it for an amazing $40.

As for you, I'd say do yourself a favor and wait a few days to save the money.

[TheShinje]

The changes to the movies don't worry me, some scene edits make things more interesting, such as the Cloud City scene where they edited in windows, so you could see more of Cloud City over the bland walls that were there prior. It helped the vision of "this is a city in the clouds" be more prevalent.

Other scenes such as Jabba in ANH really did spoil the ROTJ scenes where he is finally revealed, all the mystique about who this Jabba is, is taken out by him now appearing in the first movie.


I'm going to grab this box set if and when my wallet can afofrd it, seen as I recently accquired Attack of the Clones over in Australia, that would mean that I'll only have to pick up Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith to make my collection of the Star Wars films complete. though, time will tell, I have yet to pick up Revolutions to make my Matrix collection complete. :toothy:

The main thing I'm looking forward to is the audio commentary. I've longed for an audio commentary on the OT since picking up Episode 2, the commentaries are an interesting look at what made the Director and production staff do a certain scene one way and, sometimes, how they achieved said effects. Sometimes I'll pick up a cheap DVD for the hell of it if it has audio commentary as a feature. The star wars ones should be the most interesting, I hope Lucas dives into what made him think of the changes he made a little more.

[Shinmaru]

I bought the Star Wars DVD set today. So far, I've watched A New Hope and I've gone through a few of the features on the bonus material disc, which is pretty packed with stuff - four hours of material. I'm currently watching Empire Strikes Back, and I'll be watching Return of the Jedi after that.

The changes to A New Hope were good. On the technical side of things, the movie looks very sharp and clear (the differences between the original cut and the DVD are absolutely mind-boggling, as expected lol), and the sound is very good. The scene changes and additions are good, as well.

Even though I'm not a fan of the Jabba scene that was added into the Special Edition of A New Hope, I'm at least happy that Jabba looks a lot better and more "natural" now. Also, the controversial scene between Han and Greedo is better now; honestly, unless you're looking really hard, Han and Greedo now shoot at about the same time. As has been pointed out in numerous reviews, Han's motion is now much more fluid in the scene, as well.

So far, the DVDs have lived up to expections. I'd rather have the original movies (technically spruced up, of course, heh) on DVD, but this is good enough.

[Transtic Nerve]

I bought it today... I don't even know whY i bother replying in this topic...to many replies already... anyway... I haven't watched it yet or anything lol. It's just sitting on my shelf with my other Star Wars DVDs and the first Trilogy VHS release.

I rekon i'll watch it sometime this week after tests are done.

[Dragon Warrior]

I have yet to purchase the DvD collection, but [b][i]Darnit Gosh[/i][/b], I'm gonna do it! This is what I've been waiting for for a long while. But me have a question. Does this DvD Trilogy have the original films 4-6 or are they the special edition versions released in theatres in the 90's?

And sadly enough, the lazy bums with no lives on my dad's forum are complaining about the DvDs. But no worries. They complain about everything. Like I said, they have no lives.

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='Dragon Warrior]I have yet to purchase the DvD collection, but [b][i]Darnit Gosh[/i][/b'], I'm gonna do it! This is what I've been waiting for for a long while. But me have a question. Does this DvD Trilogy have the original films 4-6 or are they the special edition versions released in theatres in the 90's?[/quote]

They're the Special Edition versions, but they've been touched up a bit. I posted a link to the IGN review of the DVD set, which includes the changes that were made for this set.

[Dragon Warrior]

Hm. I'm not sure which set I'll get. I know I can't afford both so it's a matter if I wanna go [b]classic style[/b] or [b]new agey[/b]. Hmm... decisions, decisions. I only saw two of the three special editions in the theatres and they weren't all that great. Or maybe I did see all three. Yes, I did :^O They still weren't amazing. Wee! A new scene. Yay! I can live without it ;)

EDIT: Wow, I waffled a lot in this post =^/

[Syk3]

I got the DVDs as well today; picked them up right after school. I watched some of the special features, mainly the Episode III preview, and the old trailers for the movies (how encredibly cheesy >:O), and I would have watched more on the disc, but my brother was anxious to watch the movies. About a half an hour into A New Hope, I decided to take a nap because of the lack of sleep I've been getting, and then couldn't watch any more until now because I had soccer practice. But now that I'm back and have had a chance to settle down, I'm watching where I left off.

Damn, I must say, the quality is tripping me out. They updated the sound and image so well that I want to say that it looks like it came out in freakin' 2004. o_o So yeah, it's awesome. I'll give you guys an update once I've seen through the movies and bonus features, which might take a while since DDR: Extreme releases tommorrow. XD

[Shinmaru]

[QUOTE=Dragon Warrior]Hm. I'm not sure which set I'll get. I know I can't afford both so it's a matter if I wanna go [b]classic style[/b] or [b]new agey[/b]. Hmm... decisions, decisions. I only saw two of the three special editions in the theatres and they weren't all that great. Or maybe I did see all three. Yes, I did :^O They still weren't amazing. Wee! A new scene. Yay! I can live without it ;)

EDIT: Wow, I waffled a lot in this post =^/[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you're talking about, seeing as only the Special Editions are available on DVD lol. The original movies aren't being released on DVD, heh. If you're going to get Star Wars on DVD, you're stuck with the Special Edition movies.

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]My DVDs are waiting for me when I get home, thanks to my roommate and her Wal-Mart employee discount.

I have no idea how much I'm going to like the improved sound and graphics quality. I always thought the cheesy old-time feel to it was what made it such a good movie. That's a lot of the reason why I don't like the prequels because they have too much of that stupid "21th Century America" feel to them that every other movie that comes out nowadays has. I guess I could always spend some MORE money and buy the originals on VHS, something I never made myself do in life because I would always just go watch them at my aunt and uncle's, but eh. I'm sure my kids will be watching DVDs and not VHS when that time comes, and I'm definately looking out for the kids.

Also, completely off this topic, but can anyone get me an Expanded Universe timeline that includes JUST the novels and not all the extra comics and kiddie-books? That would be AMAZING if you could.[/color][/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Damn there've been a few replies to this, and most of these people seem to have acquired the DVDs before I've even had a chance to reserve my copy. Just going by the consensus I'd say my canine-with-rabies-like slobbering in anticipation had been worth the wait. As per Mike's (Shinmaru's) post I'm quite happy they've fixed to obvious added scenes from the Original Special Editions, Solo's super dodging skilled just irked me the wrong way.[/SIZE]

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='Queen Asuka][color=hotpink][size=1]I have no idea how much I'm going to like the improved sound and graphics quality. I always thought the cheesy old-time feel to it was what made it such a good movie. That's a lot of the reason why I don't like the prequels because they have too much of that stupid "21th Century America" feel to them that every other movie that comes out nowadays has. I guess I could always spend some MORE money and buy the originals on VHS, something I never made myself do in life because I would always just go watch them at my aunt and uncle's, but eh. I'm sure my kids will be watching DVDs and not VHS when that time comes, and I'm definately looking out for the kids.[/color'][/size][/quote]

Well, most of that has to do with just making the picture quality much sharper and sound a lot clearer, and I think it definitely benefits the film a lot. In the Special Editions, one thing I didn't like is that too much computer-generated stuff was added in and it looked pretty terrible, in my opinion. Like with the prequels, all the computer generated stuff looks too new and pristine, and that look just doesn't fit Star Wars at all. [i]However[/i], even with that in mind, I still feel that cleaning up the image and sound quality is only to each of the film's benefit.

[Brasil]

I was giggling when I popped in A New Hope, then I got choked up. The DVD cases alone are absolutely beautiful. They look glorious. The cover art for each film is just unbelievably gorgeous, it really is.

The sound and picture is awesome, I'm sure. My computer isn't really the best for stuff like that, because my monitor distorts the picture, and my amp to my sound system is starting to go, so the sound kept cutting in and out. Also, I was watching it around midnight, so I couldn't blast the volume. Melissa has so graciously agreed to sit down and watch the Trilogy with me on Friday night, so we'll get to see the DVDs on a big screen with digital surround sound. I'll report on that when I get there. ^_^

The extras are damn nice. I watched the Preview for Episode III: The Return of Darth Vader, and my favorite part of that little preview was probably [spoiler]when Hayden Christiansen finally donned the suit and walked out onto the set. They have this shot of a stage-hand or someone, and her hand is covering her mouth as her eyes have that "I'm about to cry" look to them.[/spoiler] The look at McGregor and Christiansen practicing the duel is very neat. They're really getting into it.

After watching the Preview, I'm very, very psyched about Episode III and I'm respecting Christiansen a lot more, because he's taking such a huge interest in the Episode III game, actually being heavily involved in the lightsaber fight choreography and being able to explain things in gamer terms, because apparently, he's a big gamer himself.

My only criticisms of the DVD set still are identical to my initial criticisms. The Jabba scene is still unnecessary and is just so redundant considering Greedo says everything before.

The Greedo scene is better now, and the dodge looks better, thankfully. I went frame by frame (because I'm a loser) and Greedo shoots first (you can only tell going frame by frame), but I really like how Han shoots twice after that, lol. So, Han's still a bad mutha and a cold-hearted one at that.

I've not yet checked out Empire of Dreams; I'll probably do that tonight. The still galleries are awesome, and there are some neat tidbits about Hoth here and there. Apparently, there was going to be a Wampa Ice Creature scene or two in the Rebel base, where the Wampas escape and start wreaking havoc. It was discarded when they realized it couldn't be done, but it's cool we get to see that in Shadows of the Empire on N64.

As you can guess, no fan should be without these DVDs. They're what Star Wars fans have been waiting for: a comprehensive, digitally remastered Ultimate Edition of the Original Trilogy of Star Wars.

[Gavin]

[size=1]Just reading Alex's post has me almost shaking in anticipation to get to see the Old Trilogy in all it's glory, I really want to get my hands on it sometime in the next few days and spent hours just watching every subtle nuance as I did back when I was a child.

I'd never been the biggest fan of Hayden Christiansen but after what Alex has said I'd be slightly more optimistic about his work on Episode III, the fact that he's gotten so involved in the actual project itself has reversed my opinion that he was only playing Anakin with a half heart.[/size]

[Brasil]

I just finished watching Birth of the Lightsaber, and a lot more of the Prequels/OT make a lot more sense now. I think the explanation for the saber differences also applies to the ships, actually, even though clearly, the better look of the Prequels is due to better technology, there still is a plot-related correlation.

Lucas was telling the story of how the sabers were built and such, and talked about the various stances and styles throughout the films. In the OT, he explains, Luke's style is relatively basic, because nobody is really teaching him, apart from some minor instruction from Obi-Wan and perhaps some from Yoda. Other than that, however, he's teaching himself in a time where all Jedi are extinct, so he's getting no formal training, really.

When you look at the Prequels, with the insane acrobatics and such, it's because those fights were taking place in a time where Jedi were fully trained, and their abilities were finely honed. That's why Darth Maul vs Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan is so much more intense physically than Luke vs Vader in ESB or RotJ.

The emotional effect is greater, though, in the OT, as Lucas admits, because it's a much more personal fight. In Episodes I and II, the majority of the fights weren't as personal as say, what we'll see in Episode III, or in RotJ. Lucas actually made a comparison between the Luke/Vader fight in ESB and their second duel in RotJ, noting how there's much more at stake in RotJ.

It makes sense. I've screengrabbed a few images from a few of the documentaries. Really neat stuff. I especially like that concept art of Darth Vader.

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21078&stc=1[/img]

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21079&stc=1[/img]

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21080&stc=1[/img]

[img]http://www.otakuboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21081&stc=1[/img]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Well well we finally get our fist look at Vader before he dons that living life support machine, I must saw Hayden does look that part and gives off the whole "aura" of a Sith warrior much better than Christopher Lee did as Dooku. Though perhaps Dooku represented a different part of the Sith philosophy, the more devious and underhanded part where as Vader and Maul represented the "warrior fuelled by anger and hate" side of it. Either way it's an interesting look and the young man who became Vader.[/SIZE]

[Boba Fett]

[color=green]I just got back from a sleepover party at a friend?s house where we watched the whole series of movies (I swear, this isn?t what I typically do on Friday nights..), and I enjoyed watching them immensely.

My only criticism of the Special Edition is the ANH scene with Jabba. It breaks continuity with everything regarding Jabba, and just irks me in general. Maybe it?s just because I?m a canonist, but I hate seeing things like that and tend to let them ruin my movie experience. It?s almost as bad as seeing the Death Star in Episode II.

Other than that, I thought it was pretty decent and I enjoyed watching and discussing the movies with friends. You can relate classic style myths to anything?

I?m also really looking forward to Episode III, and hoping that Hayden won?t screw up the powerful mystique and general badass-ness that?s come to surround Vader. In other words, nothing resembling extensive dialogue or emotion while behind the mask.

That?d kill me.[/color]

[Gavin]

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][color=green]I?m also really looking forward to Episode III, and hoping that Hayden won?t screw up the powerful mystique and general badass-ness that?s come to surround Vader. In other words, nothing resembling extensive dialogue or emotion while behind the mask.

That?d kill me.[/color][/QUOTE]

[SIZE=1]Yeah I know what you mean Dave, Vader has that whole "eerily quiet and yet deadly" persona about him that makes him such a classic villain. To be honest though I think young Vader, as in Anakin when he's just turned to the Dark Side may have to deal with the recourse of his actions and as such we may see some emotional outbursts and dialogue.

Old Trilogy Vader has already dealt with almost everything of his past, and as such has to deal with very little that may cause him to react emotionally, as for the dialogue I guess that's just Vader's style. [/SIZE]