The power of faith

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Let me first point out that this thread is not limited to any one religion. It is just a thought I've toyed with, and thought I'd present.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Faith having power seems an odd thing to me. Basically, if you truly have faith in something (ex. jumping from rooftop to rooftop in the matrix), you should not be surprised when you accomplish that which seems impossible. I've thought about it, and if I could make blinds open by pure faith in the fact that they will open by themselves as a result of my will, I'd be pretty damn surprised. Is being able to believe in such things a rare human quality, or maybe a discipline that could somehow be mastered? Is faith what makes Neo able to perform such miraculous things. Is it what made Jesus able to perform miracles. Did not Buddha say (more or less) that he could accomplish great things, but didn't for some reason I can't remember right now?[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Do you think it's possible for someone to believe in something so radically that an unexplainable phenomenon would not surprise the one who made it happen? Do you think such faith is even possible?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[dMage]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][COLOR=Green]Yes, I do believe that faith is probably the most powerful force in this world. Existence in our everyday world requires faith. If you ever questioned the reality of your existence, you would most likely fall into a pit of self-doubt that could easily lead to your own demise. Yet, while I do believe in Faith as a power, I don't think that it exists in a religious sense. Faith is always connected to religion, but in all honesty, I think that there are in no way interconnected. Faith is more of a cognitive power that we posses as human beings, rather than as members of a certain order or belief.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[Brasil]

Honestly? I think nearly every case of these so-called phenomena is nothing more than the power of suggestion. What I mean by this is, there's nothing "magical" about any of it, there's no energy force binding things together.

The Matrix, while rooted in many, many various Philosophies and Religious stances, is still a work of fiction, and while Buddha and particular Eastern Philosophies/Religions seem damn attractive in their "will it to be so" mentalities, there's still nothing to suggest that by thinking one can jump from building to building, one will be able to. This also holds true with the "moving the blinds with my mind" idea. There's simply nothing to suggest it's possible.

I think the best reasoning behind "Will-driven" or "Faith-driven" action is that people want to believe there's some higher force influencing what happens, whether that higher force is God, Yahweh (my apologies to Orthodox Jews), Buddha, whatever. People are simply reading way, way too far into something when they convince themselves that they're moving stuff with their mind.

It's just silly.

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]This may all be true, Siren, but a question is still left unanswered. Do you think it's possible for a human being to not be surprised if will could yield results (hypothetically speaking)? I think that if someone showed even the smallest amount of surprise at such an accomplishment, he/she would have had no faith to begin with, in essence making it unable to occur. Also, since such things tend to be rather mundane, you would have to convince yourself that there is a purpose to what you're doing. All in all, I think it would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for the human mind to meet the requirements that faith-based action insists is necessary. That being said, is true faith in anything even possible?[/color][/font][/b]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]I think that's a rather interesting question to ask.

Sometimes I think it's a question of faith and just believing in your own powers. For example if you do a healing spell for someone so they'll stop hurting you put your energy into the work you're doing and then you find that it worked.

I'm not really sure how to explain the whole faith thing. I guess if you have faith in yourself that it really doesn't suprize you when something happens. Just don't get to cocky about your abilities or you won't get anything to happen[/color]

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]When dealing with a "healing spell" or something similar, the only proof you have that it worked is the person's reaction, and they may just feel better because their mentality has changed. I'm talking you want a spoon to bend and bam, you've got a bendy spoon. Something with immediate, inexplainable results.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Adahn']This may all be true, Siren, but a question is still left unanswered. Do you think it's possible for a human being to not be surprised if will could yield results (hypothetically speaking)?[/quote]Some people are impressed by stupid parlor tricks; some aren't impressed by stupid parlor tricks. Some people are surprised at "magic;" others aren't.

I don't see a point to the question, lol. If they're expecting something to happen, then why would they be surprised if it does happen? Likewise, if they simply don't care about what may or may not happen, why wouldn't they be surprised?

[quote]I think that if someone showed even the smallest amount of surprise at such an accomplishment, he/she would have had no faith to begin with, in essence making it unable to occur.[/quote]Not necessarily. The person could just be trying something new, with no preconceived notions at all. You don't have to be faithless to be surprised, just like you don't have to be faithful to be disappointed. If someone goes into a situation with nothing in particular in mind, then their reactions will be nothing in particular.

You can build something up in your mind, or expect the worst, or don't do either and just react normally, whatever that reaction may be.

There's a set-up sometimes, sure, but not all the time.

I do think people build something up in their mind to an unreasonable extent, and latch onto an idea to a fault, though.

[quote]Also, since such things tend to be rather mundane, you would have to convince yourself that there is a purpose to what you're doing.[/quote]Again, where's the point? lol

I mean, I highly doubt that someone's going to apply a metaphysical consequence to opening a can of tuna fish, if that's where you're going with this.

Mundane doesn't necessarily mean purposeless, either. Mundane simply means something ordinary.

[quote]All in all, I think it would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, for the human mind to meet the requirements that faith-based action insists is necessary.[/quote]Okay, but, what are the requirements? What kind of "faith" are we talking about here? Cognitive faith? Religious faith? Will-oriented faith?

[quote]That being said, is true faith in anything even possible?[/QUOTE]What is "true faith?" Is it blind faith? Partial faith? What is it?

EDIT: Again, things like The Matrix are fictional.

[dMage]

Let me know when you can bend the laws of physics.

[Afire]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Red] Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and [b]nothing shall be impossible unto you.[/b]

I personally think that the mountain Jesus was talking about is death. The only thing in this world that would perfect one's faith until nothing was truly impossible; is to see the mountain of death removed first.
Until death is removed, all your seemingly impossible acts would only be temporary and disappointing eventually.
To see death removed would be like the beginning of faith in the most impossible thing first. Nothing would be impossible after that. Maybe that mustard seed of faith, is the seed that that has lain dormant for so long.
Maybe it's the seed that recieves the latter rain. Maybe it is the pearl of great value. Until death is removed; everything is temporary. After death is removed; everything is eternal. The surprises in the impossible would last forever.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Mithos]

[FONT=Century Gothic]Faith is non-existance. Its mearly morale in different words.. Let me give you an example.

Lets say Joe wanted to create the airplane. But people say it's impossible, it's defys all laws of physics. But Joe had "faith" and was motivated to accomplish his goals. THen he created the airplane. If he didnt have "faith" he would have no morale and motivation to achieve the goal. THus he becomes a homeless man in the street.

Meh, thats how I see it.[/FONT]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]What about delusional people, who have no room in their mind for doubt that they can fly/foolishness of your choice?

I don't believe one has yet succeeded.

Neo was in the Matrix: a program. And programs can be manipulated, and faith was a powerful manipulator. Also, the Matrix is just a movie, lol ~_^

Jesus was the son of God. As such, why would he have any reason to doubt his power?

Buddha knew [or, rather, understood] the nature of things. At that stage, surprise in his abilities would not happen. It's like not being surprised that you can breathe without thinking about it: regular and unsurprising.

I've always thought that having some form of ESP would be so awesome. Unfortunately, the closest I get is regular deja vu [which is, never the less, cool], but yeah. I think if someone managed to move something with their mind, they would be surprised, but I think the power resides more in absolute concentration and focus, rather than faith.[/size]

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen][/color][/font][/b][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Analysis: Faith[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen][b]Confident belief[/b] in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f] It is easier to have confident belief in something when positive reinforcement of that belief is all around oneself. also, one usually has confident belief in things that are outside of one's control.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Therefore, faith is not quantized. As the positive reinforcement decreases and the "event" occurs less often, more faith is required. Also, as the event comes more and more into the control of the "believer", faith must be stronger. I have faith I will do well on the next test.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Test (+PR +CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I have lots of positive reinforcement because I usually do well on tests. The outcome of the test is completely in my hands, but the overwhelming number of precedents allows me to have a certain amount of faith in my ability to succeed.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Driving (-PR -CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I'm an inexperienced driver, yet I have a certain amount of faith that I will not crash. I haven't crashed yet, but I've made many mistakes where I should have crashed. My driving skills are controllable, and not so great. Also, I have to deal with other drivers, who may be worse than me. How is it that I have faith? I believe I will not crash because a force outside my control (fate/god/etc.) will not allow me to do so. It's easier for me to believe it if I decide that it's out of my control. It's [i]necessary.[/i][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Sunrise (+PR -CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I have no control over it, and it has happened many times before. This is one of the easiest things to have faith in.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Analysis: Flying a jet (-PR +CO)[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I find it very difficult to have faith in my ability to fly a jet. I've never flown a jet, and I have to do the flying myself. I believe I would fail miserably. I have no faith in my ability.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Final analysis: Faith[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With very high positive reinforcement (+PR) and very low control (-CO), faith is very little faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With a high positive reinforcement (+PR) and high control (+CO), a variable amount of faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With a low positive reinforcement (-PR) and low control (-CO) a variable amount of faith is also required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]With very low positive reinforcement (-PR) and high control (+CO) a large amount of faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]I will now identify the two ends of the spectrum. The sun rising is an absolute, because I have no control over it, and it's risen many, many times before. Almost no faith is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Me flying a jet is an absolute. I have complete control over it, and no positive reinforcement. Absolute faith, or "true faith" is required.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]What makes true faith possible? Necessity. If my life depends on flying that jet, I'm going to need all the faith I can get. If I succeed, it was my faith that got me through it. Faith has the power to push us beyond our limits, and we can only surpass those limits when in extremely vital, unprecedented, completely controlled circumstances.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]If faith has any real power, it can only be observed under those circumstances. Under great duress, is there a possibility of exceeding mortal limits? Is it possible to draw upon some unknown strength with the power of faith? Are there untapped sources of power within us that can defy rules we are accustomed to?[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]

[Brasil]

I just isolated your questions, because that's the entire focus here anyway, and the rest doesn't matter, apart from establishing a definition...or something.

[quote name='Adahn']Under great duress, is there a possibility of exceeding mortal limits?[/quote]
Yes, it's called Adrenaline.

[QUOTE]Is it possible to draw upon some unknown strength with the power of faith?[/QUOTE]
Willing yourself to get up, yes, but that's not faith, nor is it the power of faith. It's self-determination, not a belief in a higher power. Getting hit square in the face with a spiked volleyball, dropping to the floor, then springing back up with no ill effects whatsoever is a matter of will, not faith.

[quote]Are there untapped sources of power within us that can defy rules we are accustomed to?[/QUOTE]
And these untapped sources of power enable us to do what? Jump over tall buildings in a single bound? Travel faster than a speeding bullet? Dodge bullets? Break world records? What?

The impossibility of the "Superman" actions should be self-evident. Nobody is going to be able to vertical-jump the Empire State Building, and attempting to dodge bullets, to my knowledge, isn't a very good idea.

The world records thing is simple training and will to succeed (determination), that's it. There's no otherwordly power in play there. If you were to look at the past 100 years of the Olympics, athletes are steadily growing stronger and faster through more rigorous training, and it's a trend that will continue, though it's going to plateau eventually. My point is, breaking a world record is due to training and determination.

It's like the whole "God has nothing to do with musicians winning awards" thing. I'm sure He's a big fan of P. Diddy's Gangsta Rap, and I'm sure He's absolutely loving Tim McGraw's twangy country bumpkin routine. :rolleyes:

There's really no higher power affecting things we do these days, or ever, really. It's always humans doing something, always has been. You break a school track record, God had nothing to do with it; you're just better trained or had a better day on the track than the other runners.

I'm going to repeat what I said before, cause I think it's a point that needs serious consideration:

"God did not create Man; Man created God."

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]I've explicitly defined faith as a possible force that we may not understand. If you're going to disregard everything I said and focus on questions I merely attached at the end, then why don't you just say what you mean.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Faith is not a force. It has no power.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Anything else is unnecessary, and will only inhibit discussion amongst those who are open to the possibility of the power of faith. Your opinion has been stated.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Adahn']I've explicitly defined faith as a possible force that we may not understand. If you're going to disregard everything I said and focus on questions I merely attached at the end, then why don't you just say what you mean.[/quote]
I did say what I meant. I didn't mince words. You just refuse to read, lol.

Also, your entire initial post in this thread was one huge question, so I don't see how I'm doing some grave injustice to you by excluding useless crap and concentrating on the real topic at hand: your questions.

But, if it'll please you, then, I'll go into your "Definition" and talk about it, because we all know I don't want to be excluded from a thread made by Adahn.

[quote]Analysis: Test (+PR +CO)

I have lots of positive reinforcement because I usually do well on tests. The outcome of the test is completely in my hands, but the overwhelming number of precedents allows me to have a certain amount of faith in my ability to succeed.[/quote]
You study, you do well. Simple as that. There's no higher power at work here; there's no God blessing you to do well on the test. Any teacher will tell you that if you study, learn the material, comprehend the material, you're going to do well on the exam. Simple. As. That. No faith required. Just studying.

[quote]Analysis: Driving (-PR -CO)

I'm an inexperienced driver, yet I have a certain amount of faith that I will not crash. I haven't crashed yet, but I've made many mistakes where I should have crashed. My driving skills are controllable, and not so great. Also, I have to deal with other drivers, who may be worse than me. How is it that I have faith? I believe I will not crash because a force outside my control (fate/god/etc.) will not allow me to do so. It's easier for me to believe it if I decide that it's out of my control. It's necessary.[/quote]
And I belive this to be an example of Man creating God, similar to the "God isn't helping gangsta rappers." P. Diddy thanking God for his Grammy Award is pretty presumptious on his part, wouldn't you agree? If there is a God, I seriously don't think he micromanages everything, right down to every last minute detail like being able to swerve to avoid a collision.

It seems to me that there are really only three kinds of people in the religious area. Ultra-dependents, Independents, and Deists. The Ultra-dependent thanks God for everything, the Independent thanks himself for everything, and the Deist sees God as a Hands-Off deity.

When something like avoiding an accident is out of your control, it's not necessary to place the outcome in the hands of God or whatever, because it's dumb luck.

[quote]Analysis: Sunrise (+PR -CO)

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. I have no control over it, and it has happened many times before. This is one of the easiest things to have faith in.[/quote]
I don't suppose the rotation of the Earth has anything to do with the sun rising? The sun rising is hardly a matter of faith, because it's scientifically proven the Earth rotates, and as it rotates, the sun's light hits different time zones at different times.

You don't need to have faith that the sun will rise, because it does, due to the Earth's rotation.

[quote]Analysis: Flying a jet (-PR +CO)

I find it very difficult to have faith in my ability to fly a jet. I've never flown a jet, and I have to do the flying myself. I believe I would fail miserably. I have no faith in my ability.

With very low positive reinforcement (-PR) and high control (+CO) a large amount of faith is required.[/quote]
Firstly, I think it should be said that if you have no piloting experience, flight experience, or piloting training to begin with, you certainly should not be getting in a plane, regardless of whether or not you've got faith up the whazoo. It's simply not a good idea, just like trying to dodge a bullet. I don't see why you'd even consider the idea of flying a plane when you have no experience or training in it. Faith or no faith, it's a bad idea.


[QUOTE]Faith is not a force. It has no power.[/QUOTE]
That much should be obvious. Any other statements like "OMG I liek kan totali afect teh blindes n moov stuf wit mi mind!1!!11" are just humans applying a quality to something that inherently does not have that quality, just like P. Diddy giving props to God for his Grammy. Again, God did not create Man; Man created God.


[quote]Anything else is unnecessary, and will only inhibit discussion amongst those who are open to the possibility of the power of faith. Your opinion has been stated.[/QUOTE]
You never made any mention at all that you wanted specific people to reply to this, and...are you saying that you only want replies from people who agree with you? That's what it sounds like.

And I think dMage had a good point here, "Let me know when you can bend the laws of physics."

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote name='Siren']If you were to look at the past 100 years of the Olympics, athletes are steadily growing stronger and faster through more rigorous training...[/quote]

Don't forget improved steroid-production facilities ^_^

...

Oh, wait... >_>

Anyway, I agree with Siren's analysis of those situations you use as examples. If you're life depended on flying that jet, faith would have SFA to do with it. In fact, all that would have to do with it is desperation. When driving, most people don't think they're going to crash. It's not faith: Its a curious mixture of hope and confidence.

Faith is belief...and belief grants confidence and self-assurance, allowing you to be calmer and more practical, which is always useful. Most people will find that they can exceed their limits in times of duress or danger, but it doesn't have anything to do with faith, rather, it entails an individual's capability.[/size]

[DeathBug]

What I'm seeing here is that Adhan had a specific response he wanted to recieve in mind, and is going to continue pushing this thread foreward until he gets it.

[Adahn]

[quote name='DeathBug']What I'm seeing here is that Adhan had a specific response he wanted to recieve in mind, and is going to continue pushing this thread foreward until he gets it.[/quote]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]Since you know so much already, could you tell me what this response is that I desire?[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[DeathBug]

Beats me, but it seems that you're trying to drive Siren to a certain conclusion, rather than hearing what he has to say. Why don't you just tell us what you think of faith, then?

[dMage]

[QUOTE]Beats me, but it seems that you're trying to drive Siren to a certain conclusion, rather than hearing what he has to say. Why don't you just tell us what you think of faith, then?[/QUOTE]

I concur. You are not an effective enough discussion leader to lead us to some deep revelation which you appreantly think we can come to if we think about tihs long enough. Your small little "nudges" as I guess your post are, are not leading us anywhere, so I think it would be a lot more effective if you just came out and stated your belief on the subject.

And, as I stated before, I do believe Faith is a powerful "force" as you call it, but not for any spiritual or metaphysical reasons. What makes Faith so powerful is because it can lead us to cognitively reach levels that we have never reached before. Faith ends up being to a certain extent, a sort of knowledge, which assures us that the task we are atteptoing can be done.

hope that makes sense.

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]Perhaps faith is merely necessity. If you [i]must[/i] do something, you will need everything you can draw upon, especially if the task is difficult. Necessity drives us past our normal limits, but maybe it goes beyond that. No, the laws of physics can't be broken, but is it possible that we can exert forces in different ways? Perhaps if more control can be achieved over one's own body (like in a desperate situation) one can draw upon rare forces.[/color][/font][/b]

[dMage]

[QUOTE] you must do something, you will need everything you can draw upon, especially if the task is difficult. Necessity drives us past our normal limits, but maybe it goes beyond that.[/QUOTE]

Thats all well and true, but you are still being annoyingly silent and vague on what your position is. Now, if you made this thread so that we could philosophize on this subject, thats very nice, but I wish you would have been more explicit about that in the beginning of the thread...

[QUOTE]but is it possible that we can exert forces in different ways? Perhaps if more control can be achieved over one's own body (like in a desperate situation) one can draw upon rare forces.[/QUOTE]
While the body does produce adrenaline in times of desperate need, it also at this time that you have the least amount of focus and control over your body. If one where to do achieve maximum control over ones body, one would do so in a [I]controlled[/I] enviorment, and not one where I think you believe faith would help spu on "greater actions".

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I [size=2]find that determination intensifies me in every way. It is how I respond to necessity. Adrenaline is brought on by fear and/or excitement (I think). You don't want either of those things when trying to push yourself beyond normal limits. When I'm determined, I think, speak, and move more quickly. I become faster, smarter, and stronger. I was very angry after reading one of Siren's posts (lol) and started venting energy off in my head, essentially getting myself pumped for God knows what. So, I go over to chemistry, and everything the teacher says makes perfect sense, and I answer his questions automatically. It's as if my mind spits out the right thing to do without a second thought. It's like running on complete instinct (in that I can't control it and that I do what's right for the situation). It's like I'm using a program I wrote myself, but never used before, and it runs flawlessly.[/size][/color][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]What does this have to do with faith? I made myself believe I could do something that seemed impossible, and this brought forth the intense determination which in turn enhanced my every ability. If someone could harness this, one could constantly have heightened abilities, and essentially improve oneself dramatically.[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f][/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]Of course, maybe it's just me. *shrugs*[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=#556b2f][/color][/font][/b]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE]I was very angry after reading one of Siren's posts (lol)[/QUOTE]
Okay...good for you.

[QUOTE=Adahn]I find that determination intensifies me in every way. It is how I respond to necessity. Adrenaline is brought on by fear and/or excitement (I think). You don't want either of those things when trying to push yourself beyond normal limits. When I'm determined, I think, speak, and move more quickly. I become faster, smarter, and stronger[...]and started venting energy off in my head, essentially getting myself pumped for God knows what. So, I go over to chemistry, and everything the teacher says makes perfect sense, and [b]I answer his questions automatically. It's as if my mind spits out the right thing to do without a second thought[/b]. It's like running on complete instinct (in that I can't control it and that I do what's right for the situation). It's like I'm using a program I wrote myself, but never used before, and it runs flawlessly.

What does this have to do with faith? [b]I made myself believe I could do something that seemed impossible[/b], and this brought forth the intense determination which in turn enhanced my every ability. If someone could harness this, one could constantly have heightened abilities, and essentially improve oneself dramatically.[/quote]
But you didn't make yourself believe anything before answering those Chem questions.

[quote]I answer his questions automatically. It's as if my mind spits out the right thing to do without a second thought.[/quote]
You made no indication at all of any preparation, which means you didn't give it any previous consideration, meaning, you didn't make yourself believe anything beforehand. It was automatic, meaning, there are no previous thought processes, and there certainly is no mental, faith-based preparation.

The adrenaline is merely biologically and chemically overclocking your head. That's it. Your brain is simply running faster and stronger than usual, due to increased power. That's it.


[quote]Of course, maybe it's just me. *shrugs*[/QUOTE]
As in, seeing something that isn't really happening? Yep.

[Adahn]

[quote name='dMage]While the body does produce adrenaline in times of desperate need, it also at this time that you have the least amount of focus and control over your body. If one where to do achieve maximum control over ones body, one would do so in a [i]controlled[/i'] enviorment, and not one where I think you believe faith would help spu on "greater actions".[/quote][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]So, this is all just BS? I'm sorry, I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Silly me.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=#556b2f]EDIT[/color][/size][/font][/b]
[size=1][color=black][QUOTE=Siren][/color][/size]
The adrenaline is merely biologically and chemically overclocking your head. That's it. Your brain is simply running faster and stronger than usual, due to increased power. That's it.
[/QUOTE][b][font=Trebuchet MS][size=2][color=darkolivegreen]dMage stated that adrenaline reduces focus and control. Siren said it increased it. I'm sorry, I thought my response was obvious in the context of the two previous posts. I really don't appreciate being misled, and one of them is making stuff up.[/color][/size][/font][/b]

[color=darkred]Please put more effort into your post. This could be considered spam and/or trolling. Explain why you feel the statement is untrue. Saying it is without anything backing it up could be considered baiting the original author into a flame war.
-Panda[/color]