Arguments For And Against the Necessity of Guns & Gun Control

[lcrisler]

So, yesterday my lovely assistant, Chibi_Horsewoman and I were having a lively debate during our daily online talks, due in part to my wanting to purchase an AR-15 and his and her handguns when I get out of the service and we buy a home.

Yeah, I'll admit, the AR-15 is more of a playtoy, and if she really didn't want me to get it, I might listen to her. Probably would; its her house too. I wouldn't make her use a handgun, either; its her right to exercise or not.

However, she takes issue with the fact that I want a handgun for home defense. She says its unnecessary; we can use mace or pepper spray. Hell, a crook can sue you if he breaks into your house and trips over the coffee table. Because of how I grew up, I have no tolerance for thugs who think they have a right to other people's stuff. Plus, I'd only keep enough rounds for one load and everything would be in a gun safe. She also brings up a basic tenet of our Wiccan faith, "Harm None", but in my opinion, some things are just worth the consequences.

What's everyone else's thoughts on guns? Seems like a worthy topic, since we do have a redneck cowboy in office who has recently let the assault weapons laws die off...

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

Well, there's a few ways to look at this. First off (and easiest to discuss), there's wanting a gun for [i]fun[/i], like you want the AR-15. I figure if you live on your own, that's acceptable, but otherwise it has to be an absolutely unanimous decision, because as toys go it's a tad on the dangerous side. I personally would recommend against it, but that's just because I don't like guns.

The second thing is self defense. Well, pro- and anti-gun folks will throw all sorts of biased statistics at you defending their positions, but ultimately it comes down to a case-by-case deal. If you life in a neighborhood or town (say, Norfolk, VA) where crime (that you could potentially lawfully prevent using a firearm) is a frequent problem, then it makes a lot more sense to get a gun than if you live in some WASPy suburb in New England. Also you have to think about how useful the gun would [i]actually[/i] be in a critical situation (and what it means to have such a situation).

Considering owning a firearm as a deterrent, which is what some people do, is ridiculous, so I'm going to just take care of that right now. Some think that owning a gun will keep criminals at bay, but in reality that might [i]only[/i] work if they advertise all over town that they own a firearm for self-defense. If they keep it locked away at home somewhere and don't make it something a criminal would know about, then it's not a deterrent in the least. So if you're of that mindset, get out of it immediately, heh.

Well, like I said before, I recommend against it, just because I would personally have a lot more issues with [i]having[/i] a gun in my house than not having one. I don't plan on having to stop a criminal by using a firearm any time soon (hopefully never). Call it wishful thinking on my part, but I'm going to stick with no guns. Maybe eventually I'll get some awesome katana that I'll put up as a display piece and occasionally kill someone with...

If you're gonna get a gun, at least just get one. No AR-15 and a "his" and a "her" guns, lol. What's the point?

[lcrisler]

I'll address the points of your thoughtful reply as follows:


[quote name='ScirosDarkblade]Well, there's a few ways to look at this. First off (and easiest to discuss), there's wanting a gun for [i]fun[/i'], like you want the AR-15. [/quote]

I totally agree on that point, and I came to the same conclusion you did during the discussion that followed my mentioning it to my wife. I figure that as my mate and the mother of my children, she should have even more say than I in the matter of such an unnecessary playtoy. I've gone this long without a civilian assault rifle, and have suffered no ill effects. But it is cool, and I've been around the military version of it (M-16) for four years. Those were my main reasons for wanting it, and I did come to the conclusion that its not a good enough rationale.

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']The second thing is self defense...[/quote]

I don't even bother with the propaganda. What the self-defense issue to me is a matter of personal preference and the effects of my childhood environment(s). While, as I said before, I've suffered no ill effects from not having an assault rifle in my home, a handgun (particularly, one carried on my person) would have come in awfully handy in several instances, more as an ounce of prevention than a pound of cure. I gained my intolerance of thugs, gangsters and all-around 'bad guys' through first hand experience and, while there's not a snowballs chance in hell of me ever raising my family in such an environment, the fact of the matter is that sometimes the 'bad guys' get bored and come to the 'nicer neighborhoods'...also first hand experience. I have no tolerance for the kind of people that think they can invade someones home with impunity; my family will never feel insecure in their own home (also, personal experience on the part of myself and my wife).

[quote name='ScirosDarkblade']Considering owning a firearm as a deterrent, which is what some people do, is ridiculous...[/quote]

Yeah, that's dumb. I'm not going to advertise my weapon; that's just a risk someones going to have to take, and the one pro-gun thing I would have to say is that if more people had one in their home, getting a job instead of risking their life for a TV and some CD's would seem a lot less attractive to some people.

And the his and hers handguns...? That was more just because I'd enjoy practicing alongside my wife and sharing some of what I know with her. I know, when my kids get older, I'd like to teach them how to shoot, just like I'd like them to try, for at least a day each, dancing, a musical instrument, a martial art, and something involving cars...just to be well-rounded. Also, I think she'd be less afraid if she experienced first hand what my level of involvement with firearms would be. She mentioned to me that she thinks the war messing with my head is making me want guns and it seemed like a good way to show her that its not.

[DeathBug]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you and Chibi live in Texas? In that event, won't most potential criminals assume you have a gun anyways?

[Lady_Rin]

I'm new here and my husband Desert Ranger is not a member. We are sitting here with coffee and reading this thread. Have fun with this one.

Background: We live on a ranchito in the desert southwest. My husband is a retired Air Force major and Tribal Ranger and is now a guide. He grew up with firearms.

I am an English Lady by title. I grew up in Wiltshire, England and never even saw a firearm other than Rangers service pistol until I moved to America.

3...2...1... Start

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Lady Rin: I have often wondered about the reasons for firearms in the house. Even though I don't like them I have to accept them in my home. Both Ranger and my son Ky are excellent shots with all kinds of long and hand guns. Ranger has a .45 cal Lama Omni he carried as a T-ranger and now uses for house defense and when we travel. also live in a area where houses are left unlocked and gunfire is common. A lot of boys and some girls get .22 rifles when 12-14 and there are places here where they can go shooting safely. Some of them hunt varmints, others hunt cans. Ky hunts paper targets and cans at 1000yards and has a boot hill for squirrels and rabbits. I highly disapprove of that. Th egirls gave up shooting when they became interested in boys however both of them are qualified handlers of firearms.

I read and hear all of the time about a child <16 shooting a brother, sister, friend or other relative accidently all the time from the cities. We have no shooting accidents here, all the children learn about firearms safety in school.

lcrisler, you want your lady to learn about firearms, she doesn't. If you are going to be married or live together and keep weapons, she must for her own safety. I was taught how to pick up any weapon and check to see if it was cleared and safe. You know exactly what I mean Sgt. (you are an sgt? yes/no?
The definition of an assault weapon lies around certain fixtures on the weapon and a magazine capacity >10 rounds. Ranger has Ruger Mini-14 varmint rifle (actually he has two), fires the same ammunition as the military M-16 and the civillian AR-15. From the gunshop it has a 5 round magazine and open sights. Range replace the wooden stock with a military style stock and added to that an electronic site, sling,and magazines from 10-30 round capacity. While not technically an assault rife he just made it as capable as any military weapon and just as effective in the hands of someone who knows how to use. He also just created a legal assault weapon anyone can use. Is it an assault weapon now?

Chibi_Horsewoman, you do not need his and her pistols. You do need to know how to use one if it's going to be in the house, especially to clear and safe it.

I know that Ranger would kill someone if he had to. He might feel guilty and be in shock afterwards however he would use it instantly and without hesitation. Ky's the same way. YaYa, oldest girl, would not use one, Mu would.

So that's my thought. I don't approve of firearms and to protect my own life but feel I must know to keep myself safe, especially in a house where they are kept.

All done. I have to get laundry going.
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Desert Ranger:

[COLOR=blue]Please read this to the end. it contains information on firearms the average person may not know. I do not condone the use of firearms for anything other than protection, food and target shooting. If I offend anyone I apologise in advance.[/color]

My father got his first rifle when he was 12. A bolt action .22 from sears and roebuck with a 3-9 power scope. He gave it to me when I was 12 and I gave it to Ky(now 15) when he was 12 tho' he's been shooting it since age 10. He loves to shoot and so do I. lcrisler does to I see. lcrisler don't get an AR-15 it's as Ky says "it's whacked" Get the ranch rifle version of the ruger mini-14. much better, more accurate and a lot more fun. Good to a hundred yards in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. The Lama Omni .45 cal automatic pistol I carried as a ranger is the fastest hand gun in the world. With roller bearings in the slide and a jeweled firing mechanism it is so fast that the slide is completely locked and a new round jacked in as the round just fired leaves the barrel. That means incredible accuracy. I have never drawn and used it as a ranger except to qualifiy every three months. I have been in a firefghts in Vietnam even though I was a pilot, so I know what it is like to be on the receiving end and to shoot back with small arms.

So this is what you should know if you want a a firearm for self defense or protection.

Take a course and learn how to use one. Everything from you do from the moment you pick up a weapon should be as natural as getting dressed.

When you buy your piece fire 500-1000 or more rounds through it at distances from 20-75 feet. In CA. ~21 ft is the legal distance for using lethal force. Get used to firing it, remember it has to be natural. Use sihlloute targets. Remember your eventual target is going to be a person and that shot has to come naturally.

This ones so important it gets proper grammar and spelling.

[Color=red][size=2] If you ever have to pull it, do not hesitate, Shoot. because if you have to pull it your life is at stake. It is always a case of you or him. To survive it has to be him.[/size][/color]

And that's where most people who have guns for defense fail. You have to be willing to kill someone, to pull the trigger, to take a life. I have no doubt that if I ever had to lay a gun on someone I would be firing soon as it was in my hands. since that weapon would be my Llama, all rounds would be overlapping dead center in the chest. For defense the Lama is loaded with Hydro Shocks, get hit anywhere with one of those even in a small round like a .357 you go down.

[quote=darkblade]
decision, because as toys (AR-15) go it's a tad on the dangerous side.[/quote]

Start with firearms are not toys. They ae not a tad dangerous, they are very dangerous. They only have one end use. To kill.

Let me ask, which is more dangerous.

Ky's .22 cal six shooter in his fast draw rig?

or...

My Barrett .50 cal BMG bolt action rifle. The BMG stands for Browning Machine Gun. That's the round it fires, more than 4.5 inches long with a bullet 1/2 an inch in diameter that can go through an engine block at 2000 yards.

or

any handgun in the hands of someone not trained to use it. that includes gang members. Gang members don't care about life, fortunately they watch too many movies, are lousy shots, and stand while shooting. That's makes an easy target (you don't hold a gun in one hand sideways). Use two hands and get down. A gunfiight is going to be won with firepower and a cool head. Firepower is easy, are you going to be a cool head under fire?

You shake, your palms sweat, throw in fear and anger working against each other and add to that adrenelin pumping fight or flight it to you.

Again, are you going to be a cool head?

There is a lot of fun with firearms as wel done properlyl.

Since I was 12 my friends and I have been able to defend ourselves from any cans that have attacked us. Paper targets never even had a chance. Shooting .22s is not only fun but it's cheap. my favorites for that are the ruger line of carbines frm .22-45 cal.

Ky and I both shoot competition at 1000 yds. I have that monster Barrett and also shoot at 2000 yds. I'm fair at that range, the marine kids are outstanding at that range. Not cheap. Ky shoots a Remington Model 116 7mm magnum rifle at the same distance using a 3.8-24 and shoots consistently in the mid 900s. Also not cheap. You can kill a bear or elk with that rifle. Even shooting them is expensive as well $1.25 per shot for Ky, $3.00 a shot for me.

Ky also steel shoots with a Barreta .45 automatic. That's shooting against the clock for high score. At that he's very good.

So there ya go. some of what you should know before going out and making a decision on fierarms. this is a home on both sides of the coin. Now it's your choice.
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[URL=http://home.earthlink.net/~frogstar/50calrifle.html][/URL]

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This is a subject worthy of continued discussions long as it it kept civil as talking about firearms is the same as owning them. You have to be careful of who gets in the way.
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[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/desertranger/climboutsig.jpg[/IMG]

Hugs for you all. you have some interesting things to say.

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]If you want a gun, get a hunting rifle, and use it for hunting.

You can still kill a man at ten paces, should he decide to burglarize your home while you're awake enough to deal with the issue, or simply threaten him with it, without needing an AK-47 Assault Rifle.

As far as gun control laws go, every gun should be registeredtracked, just as every car is registered and tracked. Should the gun switch owners, be destroyed, stolen, etc..., having the same sort of registration laws in place would make it much easier to track down committers of gun-related crimes.

If you want to have fun learning to kill people, take up Kendo--it'd probably be more useful in a tight situation, anyway, since nobody would expect it.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Lady_Rin]

[quote="Godelsensei"]

If you want a gun, get a hunting rifle, and use it for hunting.[/quote]

Why kill for sport? That's cruel. Paper and cans are just a good and they don't bleed.

[quote name='"Godelsensei"']...or simply threaten him with it, [/quote]

He'll take it and use it on you.

[quote="Godelsensei"]
...without needing an AK-47 Assault Rifle. [/quote]

You can't swing an assault rifle in a house anymore than you can a shotgun. That's what handguns are for.
[quote="Godelsensei"]
..every gun should be registered[/quote]

What of the already existing 5 million unregistered guns in the United States right now.
[quote="Godelsensei"]
If you want to have fun learning to kill people...[/quote]

Killing people for fun? That's barbaric. Not even soldier thinks that way.

Godelsense, have you ever fired a weapon? If so what? Have you ever killed anything just for 'fun'?

My son doesn't even do that. Everything in his Boot Hill is a pest, hazard to the ecology and non-native to this area including pigeons, grey squirrels and CT rabbits. All non-native and displacing the local animal life. All of them eat my flowers and vegetable garden.

I don't approve yet he still does it. At least my vegetable gardens now survives until harvest.

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I'd just like to point out that hunting isn't necessarily for sport. I used to hunt squirrels. I shot them, skinned them, cleaned them, cooked them, and ate them. They tasted like chicken. I absolutely love venison, and my dad's going hunting this weekend. Trust me, he's not just going out there because it's fun. You can actually save a bit of money by going out and bagging a couple bucks. There's alot of meat on them, and you probably end up getting a better deal per pound from the cost of the license than you would buying beef at a store. Also, hunting is necessary to control the population, which is why only a certain number of licenses are given out each season. The DNR has studies done to figure out how many deer there are, and they decide how many our environment can support.[/color][/font][/b]

[Godelsensei]

[quote name='Lady_Rin']What of the already existing 5 million unregistered guns in the United States right now.[/quote]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Question marks are very sensitive creatures; leaving them out hurts their feelings. Replacing them with full stops just drives them to blow their own brains out. [i]Your killing question marks as we speak!!![/i]

Even if there are already unregistered guns out there, what harm can forcing people to inform the government of the [i]new[/i] killsticks they have hidden in their respective underwear drawers possibly inflict?

Another problem with gun control laws is that they simply aren't strict enough. Any crime involving a gun should land you a life sentence, because, face it, if you walk into a room with a handgun, you're aiming to kill somebody.
That's the only reason any one would have a gun. To kill somebody or something. It's what they were made for. By having a gun in your home that is not intended for hunting, you're planning to kill some one, simply because [i]you cannot shoot a gun safely.[/i]
If some one's inside your house, they're within killing range.

And, to, amazingly, agree with Adahn, alot of people eat what they shoot, or miss it entirely.

That is, if they manage to spot anything in the first place. My uncle's hunting stories would make you laugh.

Besides, deer [i]are[/i] pests. They'll eat the blossoms off of all your flowers, and chew your lawn to nothing.
Good thing I live in the city, even though you do see the odd deer standing in the middle of the road now and then. (I swear, there was one nibbling on my neighbor's lawn the other day--they come out of the ravine.)

And, to whoever it was who said a handgun would have gotten them out of a sticky situation, I still say Kendo would work more, for shock value, as long as there was a broom or something around. >_> You could, like, [i]broom[/i] them to death...! : O

My dad's had a few occasions where his martial arts skills have gotten him out of problematic situations in one or two punches, so a gun really isn't the only way.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Lady_Rin]

*jumps up and down in glee*

Sorry about the Q marks.

So I ask you; is it a crime to kill in defense of your loved onese? Should Ranger go to jail defending me?

How are you going to force people to register? Ranger has any number of weapons, a few of which are unregistered some he's owned before those laws were placed. How are you going to do that without violating the constitution with illegal search and siezure?

Absoultely, a gun in your house not meant for hunting is meant for killing people. I totally agree. I thank God that it will be in Rangers hands.

I don't understand: You can't shoot a gun safely? What do you meant by that? Ranger shoots safely. He hits his targets. According to him that's gun control.

If someones in my house I want Ranger to defend and protect me. I cannot defend myself. Ranger will and has (usually from the bikers at the Alamo). [size=1] see correct placement of the period outside of the parens.[/size]

Ky hunts varmints. Ranger hunts for food in the back country. Rattlesnake is better than Adahns squirrel. Ranger has not "hunted" just to hunt since his return from Vietnam.

Ranger has had a handgun get him out of a sticky situation, in Vietnam. He told me about it, the result was three dead and Ranger alive.

Ranger is also skilled with martial arts. He says, "All the martial arts in the world can't stop a .45".

Ranger carried a pistol as a law enforcement officer. Because of that I have come to learn that there is a place in the world and my house for firearms even though I don't countenance using lethal force or want them in my home. I also know that I cannnot defend myself, I found that out one night leaving the Alamo in the parking lot. Ranger almost killed him with his hands. If someone like that comes into my home I want Ranger to protect me by whatever means.

So now I ask you, with a properly placed question mark, what would you do when threatened with bodily injury or death and you have a pistol? I know I won't shoot. I know Ranger will. I don't know about you but I would like to live a little longer.

I don't want them in my house yet they are there and since they are there I do feel safer even knowing it might mean a persons life.

[Delta]

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[QUOTE=Lady_Rin]
Ranger is also skilled with martial arts. He says, "All the martial arts in the world can't stop a .45".
[/QUOTE]
You could always try disarming the one with the .45 with, let's say, judo. Pin him down, break a bone (preferably a vertebra) and take his gun.

That's assuming that he has you at point blank. XD

[QUOTE=Lady_Rin]
So now I ask you, with a properly placed question mark, what would you do when threatened with bodily injury or death and you have a pistol? I know I won't shoot. I know Ranger will. I don't know about you but I would like to live a little longer
[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I really think people who run around with guns and try to rob somebody are very bad shots. And if they're trying to rob you discreetly, that means that they are close enough to be grabbed and pinned to the ground.
My answer: I won't shoot. I'll knock him unconscious with it. Besides, I'd rather he kill himself either because of his lawyer's fees or the biting misery of being imprisoned.

Love and Peace!
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[MissWem]

[QUOTE=Lady_Rin]
So now I ask you, with a properly placed question mark, what would you do when threatened with bodily injury or death and you have a pistol? I know I won't shoot. I know Ranger will. I don't know about you but I would like to live a little longer.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=DarkRed]I really feel I have to ask you.

What happens if Ranger isn't there to shoot the guy for you?

Besides if Ranger did shoot someone in self-defense he wouldn't go to prison/jail because his defense would be self-defense.

I don't condone needing a gun for self-defense because when it comes to fire-arms which are designed to kill then you kill the other person uneccessarily so that you live. If you like hunting, then good for you, just watch where you aim that 'kill-stick'. Even better if you can wrestle a malicious squirrel down with some awesome martial arts move and kill it swiftly by breaking it's neck :laugh:

Of course guns are dangerous, and of course if you feel it is absolutely neccessary to own one in your house then of course it's only common sense that everyone in the household has the proper education about the use of one. Unless you're a hunter, what on earth would neccessitate owning more than one.. perhaps two guns??

Needless to say gun laws are much too lax.[/COLOR]

[lcrisler]

I'm glad this post is doing so well..no spam so far...everyone gets gold stars!

Anyhoo...to address some concerns and maybe provide some more background...

Chibi and I are residents of New York State. We spent a bit over a year in TX due to my assignment to Ft. Hood. She's back in NY now; I will return to TX for approx. 3 months after which I will be out of the military, at which point I will return to my lovely home state and even lovlier family.

I already own one weapon for hunting, a 14-gauge double-barrelled shotgun that belonged to my father and my granfather before him. That will get used on rabbit and maybe close range on a deer when I get back; by the way, I believe in only hunting for food. I've only put a few slugs through it so far, just to see what it was like. I don't remember if my wife actually shot it or not, she can refresh my memory on it. I remember she was a bit scared to shoot it, don't remember whether she actually did or not.

If she doesn't want to get into it like me, that's fine. I'd at least like her to learn things like shooting from a kneeling position, proper trigger squeeze, how to load and clear and how to aim center mass to achieve a kill. This will come in handy in all sorts of situations, such as a break-in when I'm not home. Such as, gods forbid, one of our children getting hold of the damn thing (I'll have everything locked up, but I want to plan for the worst). We can learn handguns together, since I never have shot one.

I plan on being a cop when I get out. I'm going to look for a job in the communications field also, because I'm trained in that line of work, and I feel I owe it to my wife to at least look into a less hazardous profession after what I've done for the last four years. But if I become a cop, there will be another gun in the house. She should at least know the basics.

I know a wee bit of martial arts. I know how to get a handgun away from someone, and probably a rifle or shotgun if they're close enough. Honestly though, I'd rather kill someone breaking into my house because A) I don't believe they have a right to live and B) the dead can't sue. Flat out. To [B]DerelictDestiny [/B] in particular, I'd have to say that breaking into my home is the unnecessary act, not me putting hot lead in their dishonorable heart or inadequate brain.

Fact is, idiots abound. My wife knows this; she wrote me a letter a few months ago, beside herself because a SWAT team busted a drug dealer selling out of her nice suburban neighborhood, just a couple doors down from where her and my daughter sleep at night. I would be so excitied that I'd have to change my underwear if I got a call while I was on duty saying that someone broke into my house and my wife killed them. I know I'd shoot without hesitation. I'd kill without hesitation and go right to sleep with my wife in my arms after the cops left. Just like stepping on a roach.

[Lady_Rin]

[quote="Freude"]

You could always try disarming the one with the .45 with, let's say, judo. Pin him down, break a bone (preferably a vertebra) and take his gun.[/quote]

a) If you know judo or some other art.
b) How do you do that from across a room?

[quote="Freude"]
My answer: I won't shoot. I'll knock him unconscious with it.[/quote]

Then we die together. Oh no, that's not true, Ranger's here. :laugh:

If you try to take it away he'll shoot you. Best in that case is to surrender unless you prefer death. Even then he mght kill just to do it. They do that you know.

[quote="DerelictDestiny"]
What happens if Ranger isn't there to shoot the guy for you?[/quote]

We talk about that.

Where we live it's not a problem. We are separated by distance from the town and to get up here you would wake up every dog in an area where dogs are quiet at night. That in turn would wake up everybody in the area. I addition we are in the middle of a ranch and we have the absolute best security system the world. Dogs! By the time you get through the dogs, if you get through, Ranger's awake and armed. He always wakes totally alert. Frankly I think the chances of the house being invaded are little and none. That means I never have to lock the house.

Together in public, depending on where we are, Ranger is usually armed, especially if we go to the city. He is always armed when we travel. In town here he doesn't carry. Even alone nobody here is gong to touch me, the "bad guys" here learned years ago to keep their filthy paws off of me. I feel safe here even when I do what you call cosplay, which is normal for me.

I rarely leave town except to go to work or major shoppng. when I do that I go with friends, not so much for safety, it's a social thing. There is old adage that is suitable here though. Safety in numbers.

Self defense in a case involving lethal force is a decision for the sheriff and the DAs office to decide. Yet you should know, most law enforcement officers say shoot to kill and if the body falls outside drag it in :laugh:, besides it saves hospital, court costs and keeps you from being sued. :laugh: Seriously, if the bad guy turns and tries to leave you have to cease fire and you may not reload when empty. Laws are very specific on that.

Ranger has said that I might be able to do it if under enough duress, no one really knows untill it happens and the need arises. As I sit here in my mind I could not. Until you are actually in the situation you aren't going to know what you can or would do. Rangers has tried to explain it to me yet I can't grasp the concept.

I truly do not like guns in my home. On the other hand they are here. The experts say, "Do not let the bad guys get into knife fighting range" and that means firearms". Even as a person who is morally against killing of any kind I see and know there is a purpose for them. More importantly I understand that purpose.

What would happen to me if I was under attack and had a gun? I truly don't know.

Enogh today.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]First of all I do think that the military has messed with Lincoln's head-not that he didn't have enough to mess with it before.

Second, we're originally from New York State-Western NYS. People have guns up here, but they're mostly used for hunting deer and rabbit oh yeah and turkey. But mainly deer since the opening of deer season is pretty much a state holiday.

That's not to say that some people up here probably don't have hand guns, but I've never understood the reasoning behind owning one. Even Lincoln's reasoning that a robber can sue you for tripping over a coffee table is a bit out there. Couldn't you just counter sue for the person breaking an entry? Or have a dog because if the robber shoots your dog you can sue them for shooting your dog.

I grew up with a few guns in the house, but they were used for hunting. My dad keeps them locked up with trigger locks on them. The ammunition is kept separate from the guns and they're never stored loaded.

I have no problem with someone owning a gun if they initiate responsible gun ownership in doing so. But I really don't see the necessity for having a handgun-even for personal security-unless you have it because you're a cop. But in that case I don't think it should be used unless absolutely necessary.

The problem with gun laws in the States is that they're too lax and the current administration hasn't done anything to rectify that. I believe that gun manufacturers should be made to include gun locks on all new guns and the store that sell guns without the locks should offer them free of charge with new guns. There should also be more extensive background checks. IF a person wants a gun that badly I think that said person can wait long enough to see if there may be a violent history in their background.

That's about it for me on my arguement. I'll have more later, I promise.[/color]

[lcrisler]

Real quick like and all...the problem with the lawsuits and countersuits is that if, as homeowners, we have money, we can be sued by someone and have to part with said money...countersuing someone who breaks into the house? What are the chances that we'd even get enough to pay the lawyer?
As far as the gun control laws go, yeah I think the locks are a good idea, but keep in mind that those registration laws only work for people who don't get their 'heaters' on the black market...

[Zeta]

[QUOTE]Even if there are already unregistered guns out there, what harm can forcing people to inform the government of the new killsticks they have hidden in their respective underwear drawers possibly inflict?[/QUOTE]

Seeing as how lots of guns out there are bought on the black market for use in gangs, drug dealers, etc...I see that as a high possibility of actually happening. :rolleyes:


Anyways onto my views. There isn't really anything we can do about having guns period. Guns are needed to put it bluntly. In the ancient times it was a sword, spear, whatever. Nowadays it is a gun. Everyone doesn't need them in many peoples minds. But I still stick by my opinions from a different thread about owning guns. :D


I would like to quote a guy from the movie Runaway Jury. When asked about what he thought of gun control he replied "the same way I do about birth control, it doesn't work." It doesn't matter if you are required to register a gun, people will just buy it off the black markey if they don't want to register.

I with to agree with Adahn I think it was about hunting. Sure people hunt for fun, but when they do shoot something they will most likely not just leave it there. They will get it and eat it. *shrug* Even if they don't eat it themselves, it is then there for other animals to eat. It isn't like you shoot it and nothing happens with it.

I don't agree with Goldensensi on if you have a gun you are intending to kill someone. The only reason you have a gun isn't so you can kill someone, lol. I could say the only reason you have a knife is to kill someone, as they kill too, and if they are in your house, they are also in killing range of the knife. What of the gun collectors? Those who collect the guns and have never even fired it, let alone bought ammunition? I don't think the only reason they have a gun is for killing, lol.

Just as was said earlier, if Rangerwere to kill some intruder in defense of you he won't go to jail. His defense would be self defense of himself, and of family members. Just finished that section in my business law class. And anyways if they are in your house trespassing, you do not have to retreat beforehand as you would have to if you were out in the streets.(to Rin I believe)

[QUOTE]So now I ask you, with a properly placed question mark, what would you do when threatened with bodily injury or death and you have a pistol? I know I won't shoot. I know Ranger will. I don't know about you but I would like to live a little longer.[/QUOTE]

I am curious as to why you won't shoot? What if you are the only one there and Ranger isn't? You would have to shoot otherwise you will be dead. Sorry, I just don't understand why you won't protect yourself when you have every right to.

[Lady_Rin]

[quote name='Zeta']I am curious as to why you won't shoot? What if you are the only one there and Ranger isn't? You would have to shoot otherwise you will be dead. Sorry, I just don't understand why you won't protect yourself when you have every right to.[/quote]

That's a good question and we have talked about it for 20 years. I don't know and I'm not the only one who feels that way, I have friends who do as well. I honestly don't know if I could take a human life. I certaintly can't kill and animal even one that's suffering. I know that I could shoot and probably hit an intruder but the actual taking of a life is abhorrent to me. I asked Ranger about wounding a bad guy or as discussed earlie or using martial arts to disarm someone. That answer is always the same, even when I think about it. Someone has to die. I just don't know if I can do it.