American Beauty

[Queen Asuka]

[color=hotpink][size=1]I'm sure we've had this thread already, but I just felt the need to VENT and so I was hoping I could get some mature feedback from some of you guys.

I HATE that almost all females think they are fat, especially the ones who AREN'T. For example, if you've seen a picture of me, you know that I'm pretty shapely, but I'm not a bean pole. But I'm not FAT either. Sure, my stomach isn't flat, but that doesn't make me overweight. But because I'm always exposed to what everyone percieves as "beautiful," I have a hard time convincing myself that I AM NOT FAT.

For example, I think guys have a lot to do with this as well. It always seems to me that men are SO attracted to those girls with flat tummies. Well EXCUSE me for not starving myself or being on the latest DIET. For one thing, I don't believe in diets. I just always think about my old roomie Kristi and how skinny she was and how she was ALWAYS getting attention because of it.

IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK HEALTHY!

And then the MEDIA! I mean, GEEZ, look at all the girls you see in magazines or on TV or in movies. I bet they all have 15" waists. Well, honey, that's not they way it's supposed to be. I remember way back when, the bigger you were the more attractive you were because it meant that you had money.

What makes me think of this is when I read Juuthena's myO. Everytime she posts a new picture she's all like, "Gah, I'm so fat, blah blah blah." And I look at that picture and think, "Well, if that's fat, then I'm an ELEPHANT."

So what are your thoughts on this?[/color][/size]

[eleanor]

[color=darkslateblue] Well, just because you have a flat stomach doesn't mean you're starving yourself. >_> I mean, I have one and I eat like a maniac, I just play DDR a lot as well. :)

I used to be overweight, so I get your drift. I never called myself fat in front of other people (although I knew I was overweight) because it makes them go "Oh, blah blah blah." But yeah, it's hard to deal with. Just the fact that you have a bigger tummy makes you feel infinately insecure (well for me it did) and insults that deal with physical apperance are possibly the worst you can jab at girls.

And guys will be guys, I guess. And it sucks, really. For GUYS it's ok to be a little overweight, but for GIRLS if you're like even five pounds overweight you're viewed as a fat tub of lard by guys, which is digusting. And it's worse in the south. Guys here just love the anorexic kind.[/color]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New][i]Anorexia Nervosa[/i] n. - Continual state of self-starvation, spurred by the irrational desire to be a stick covered in flesh.

Because that's what those "beautiful" women are: sticks covered in flesh.

It's not healthy and it's [i]most definately[/i] not attractive.

Being too skinny not only makes you faint, weak, and unattractive, but can actually make your menstrual period stop, since you don't have enough fat on your bones to preform even the most basic of bodily functions.
If your body doesn't receive enough nutrients, it just transforms muscle tissue into fat tissue, which, even then, is too limited to use effectively.

I know I'm a kilo or two overweight, but I've never thought of myself as grotesquely fat. On the rare occasion I'm able to motivate myself to exercise, it's because of concern for my health, or a desire to be stronger, not to become thin.

I think it's important for girls to have shown to them, at a younger age, that they should take the image celebrities are always trying to pull off with a grain of salt, as oppose to leaving it until they're already teenagers, and too stubborn to listen to good advice.

My friend was talking to me about one of [i]her[/i] friends who seems to be developing an eating disorder. Her [my friend] thoughts on the matter were basically along the lines of, "When guys look at porn, what do you think they want to see? Because it isn't [i]nothing[/i]."
Perhaps this isn't the greatest way to get the message across, but it's true.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Ben]

I remember watching a movie in Health class once about all of the celebrities and such you see in the media who have ridiculously small waists and perfect breasts and flat stomachs. The movie went behind the scenes of a major media magazine (I can't remember which one, it's been two years since I saw the movie >_>). The thing is, they had the people who designed the cover on the video. These people then showed, in front of the camera, how they went and adjusted the pictures they got to make the women look their very best. A little round about the belly? A slight click and drag of the mouse, and it was gone. Breasts not big enough? Click and drag, and boom. "Respectable" size.

The other portion of the movie dealt with dancers, and how many of them cut themselves because they needed to vent their frustrations. They were frustrated because they were not thin enough; their instructors told them to lose, like, fifteen pounds when they were already ten pounds underweight and living a diet of water and crackers.

*shakes head* Ridiculous stuff.

[chobit]

I don't get the name of this thread.

[Dagger]

[quote name='chobit']I don't get the name of this thread.[/quote]

I can only assume it's a reference to the Oscar-winning Kevin Spacey movie called "American Beauty."

~Dagger~

[Boba Fett]

[color=green]This stuff really makes me annoyed. Most of the girls I know are always complaining that they?re too ?fat?, when they look normal. It?s disgusting how much the media and our society distort the way in which women perceive themselves. It?s been mentioned above that movies promote such trends, but I?m sure most of you have seen Barbie dolls. Seriously, she wouldn?t be able to stand the way she?s proportioned.

This crap drives women up the wall, and discourages many from eating at all. Heck, one of the reasons I broke up with my girlfriend was that she never, ever ate. It drove me crazy.

This trend is also true with boys, although not as extensive. Most male role models in the sports arenas and movie theaters are absurdly built up. G.I Joe dolls and all manner of similar toys have heads smaller than their fists.

Yet another reason why parents need to be more active in their child?s lives, turning off the TV and talking to their kids about these issues. The results of not doing so can be tragic.[/color]

[wrist cutter]

We're also ignoring the fact that a lot of girls are complaining about being fat just to be like everyone else.

I'm not saying anorexia doesn't exist, I'm just saying they're the ones who actually have problems. Stop blaming the media. I don't want ugly people on TV any more than you do. But the trend is to call yourself "fat" these days among girls. Very few of them actually do anything about it (and a lot of them are fat anyway, if you're living in America).

I don't see how we can blame the media. The people who have problems with anorexia and such generally have bigger issues going on than just watching too much TV. Nearly everyone else is just bitching to blend in and get attention.

[Queen Asuka]

[quote name='chobit']I don't get the name of this thread.[/quote]

[color=hotpink][size=1]I was referring to how in America that beauty is only in how skinny you are. That if you don't have a flat stomach, you are FAT. How the media and the movies portray beauty in this disgusting image that makes people like ME think I'm overweight even though I'm NOT.

THAT's what it refers to. If you'd thought about it for just a moment, you would have understood.[/color][/size]

[Manic Webb]

[quote name='maladjusted][color=darkslateblue']For GUYS it's ok to be a little overweight, but for GIRLS if you're like even five pounds overweight you're viewed as a fat tub of lard by guys, which is digusting.[/color][/quote]
Bull, I say. Bull. Show me an overweight male model. Go ahead, look through any magazines you have lying around. I can [strike]weight[/strike] wait. Turn on the TV to E!. Nothing?
Okay, now I want the ladies out there to be honest. Have any of you ever been more attracted to a guy who was in shape, as opposed to an overweight guy? Judging by the casts of most TV shows, I'm willing to bet men are held to the same standards as women.

You know what the main difference is? Most of us overweight men are comfortable with ourselves. Dare I say, we're proud. It's not that society accepts overweight men more, it's that we don't complain about it... at least not as openly as some women. The majority of us tend to keep our insecurities to ourselves. So if we have any problems with how we look, it might take some coaxing to get us to talk about it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only thing that keeps me from auditioning for MTV's Real World is that they've never picked an overweight guy, and if they did, everyone else would still be too damn pretty.

I like more shapely women, anyway. They look healthier, and run less risk of twisting in the wind during the autumn season.

[chobit]

[QUOTE=Queen Asuka][color=hotpink][size=1]I was referring to how in America that beauty is only in how skinny you are. That if you don't have a flat stomach, you are FAT. How the media and the movies portray beauty in this disgusting image that makes people like ME think I'm overweight even though I'm NOT.

THAT's what it refers to. If you'd thought about it for just a moment, you would have understood.[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

Yeah well,the rest of the world has these problems too.I just don't get why you put America,though apparently you just ripped off a movie title.

I get it.

[Pumpkin]

[QUOTE=Ben]I remember watching a movie in Health class once about all of the celebrities and such you see in the media who have ridiculously small waists and perfect breasts and flat stomachs. The movie went behind the scenes of a major media magazine (I can't remember which one, it's been two years since I saw the movie >_>). The thing is, they had the people who designed the cover on the video. These people then showed, in front of the camera, how they went and adjusted the pictures they got to make the women look their very best. A little round about the belly? A slight click and drag of the mouse, and it was gone. Breasts not big enough? Click and drag, and boom. "Respectable" size.

The other portion of the movie dealt with dancers, and how many of them cut themselves because they needed to vent their frustrations. They were frustrated because they were not thin enough; their instructors told them to lose, like, fifteen pounds when they were already ten pounds underweight and living a diet of water and crackers.

*shakes head* Ridiculous stuff.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1] This is called Digital Editing. Its done in every magazine, even the hottest models get it done. Its way common and suprised you didnt know about it. Yes it gets done, but thats what they need to sell their product. Its sad but true but people love perfect things :( even if there is no such thing as the "perfect" person. [/FONT][/SIZE]


[QUOTE=Manic]
You know what the main difference is? Most of us overweight men are comfortable with ourselves. Dare I say, we're proud. It's not that society accepts overweight men more, it's that we don't complain about it... at least not as openly as some women. The majority of us tend to keep our insecurities to ourselves. So if we have any problems with how we look, it might take some coaxing to get us to talk about it.
.[/QUOTE]


[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=1] Wow you must not know alot of overweight women. I don't really want to start an argument or anything so take take this the wrong way, but i gotta say i've seen alot of confident overweight women. What about Queen Latifah? Shes overweight and proud. There are even celebrity people who have been overweight and yeah they are confident. Opera. Missy Elliot. and lots more. There are alot of guys who are overweight on TV that are not given as much craptalk about as women you know why? As the saying goes "Its a man's world" and women are projected more as an object then a person. We are meant to look this way and that way for a guy to even look at us, or be considered Beautiful. There are many overweight celebrities that are overweight and considered cute, alot of girls are nice and dont judge by weight, and most the time muscles arent even attractive on a guy. Sad but true. Theres American Idol winner Ruben, Biggie Smalls, Fat Joe, "Doug" from King of Queens, even Peter from family guy lol there is always room for the fat guy, but hes always got to have the 'hot' wife. So there is alot of competition, even if an overweight girl has got confidence, shes still considered ugly even if she has a cute face. I've even heard this straight out of a guys mouth. I'm not saying all guys think that way, but the majority of guys care about looks, and girls are more caring about personality then looks. And Most girls who claim "Oh I'm so fat" I'm sure 99.9% that want to get plastic surgery and are even really skinny to begin with. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[Sara]

[size=1]I'm comfortable with myself, and I'm happy about that.

I've never been on a diet to lose weight, heh. I generally eat healthily, simply because I feel better when I do.

There was one girl in particular I went to school with for several years. She probably weighed about what I did, and was a bit taller than me. She talked about her weight a lot, and she was [i]never[/i] happy with it. She was always complaining. (It got very annoying.) She honestly believed she was overweight. She wasn't. [i]I'm[/i] not overweight, and like I said, we probably weighed about the same.

It was interesting, and frustrating, to see what happened as a result of her complaining. A couple girls in my class (also not overweight, and otherwise intelligent) became convinced they were fat...I don't know if it was just that time of adolescence, or what, heh. But I honestly believe it had to do with the original girl mentioned.

"If [i]she's[/i] fat...I am too."

And then (on a note of purely personal annoyance) I had to listen to all of them whine about it.

That aside, looking back at middle school, I'm very happy that I was comfortable with myself. If I had a bit less self-esteem, it's likely that the other weight-conscious (read: obsessive) girls in my class would have convinced me I was overweight. Not that it would have been intentional, but kids learn a lot about "what they are supposed to be" from their friends and classmates.

I believe (I hope) most kids know they aren't supposed to look like the people on TV. First of all, for goodness sakes, they're in middle school--it's [i]not[/i] healthy. And I think most kids know that. They can draw a line between hollywood and real life.

But when you have even one or two girls in a class who [i]can't[/i] make that decision, or hold themselves to ridiculous (and unhealthy) standards, they can easily "infect" others. Even when an adolescent girl can look at the women in television and magazines and know she isn't required (or even supposed) to look like that, when her peers give her the same message, it is far more difficult to refute.[/size]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]First of all I am fat (I'm over 165 if anyone must know and only 5'4 1/2) But quite frankly I don't care. There's more to me than a dress size-just ask anyone who knows me.

I hate how one minute all these beauty magazines are telling you one minute how to be happy the way you are and clothes to fit any size then the next telling you about weight loss and shoving skinny (ie no breast) models in your face. Marie Claire once had a campaign going on and you could order a t-shirt from them to donate money to that campaign. The only size the t-shirt came in was extra small, small and medium. Now, the cause was good and everything, but there's no way in hell I'm paying money for a shirt I'll never fit into.

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't wish I was skinnier. I do, I think that my weight is a bit unhealthy and I should do a few things to change it. But it's all about diet and excersize, not dieting and gastric bi-pass surgery. People there's a reason the first few letters in DIET spell die. Going drastic works in the short run but how likely are you to stay on a 1,000 calorie a day diet after you lose the weight?

I'm not sure what else I want to add to this except: Ladies enjoy your hips, thighs boobs and butt. They're what make you a woman. Don't believe me? Try to find a picture of Venus of Wallendorf (sp?) That was a fertility statue ie something peopel worshipped.[/color]

[Mitch]

[quote]Women who are fat as slobs,
who are piles of lard,
who are alienating all men
to stay away from them
- to be as far away as possible -
snort their way all around, in this world
being pigs and swine

well, a pig may not be all too fine
but its orgasm lasts for hours on end
and i do not think
i can quite know what a feeling
that must be

for all accounts,
i would rather be a pig
bred to be slaughtered
and eaten by the masses
just to have
that orgasm throttle this body
all around[/quote]

As for the topic at hand, I would say women definitely are told how to appear in our society, more than men.

Personally, I tend to find a girl who's a little chubby to be more attractive than one that isn't. I guess it may be that women are supposed to have more body fat than men.

[Ayokano]

I think it's said when people in good shape think they're not in good shape. It's like trying to build on to a building thats already done. It's going to fall soon.

But I also don't like it when a fat person thinks that their body is oh so sexy, and they are healthy. I'm fat, and I even sometimes I think this, but I try not to and keep my goal on living a healthy life. Though I can't say the same for fat girls who wear clothes half their size.

What I look in a girl is that she's neither of these. Also, I hope she understands that being a twig is not heathy, nor is being overwieght.

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3][I]NOTE: I usually don't write in small text...but it became apparent that this was a REALLY long post. So...enjoy. EDIT: I started writing this at 9:30, I posted around 11:30 PST, USA. Wow...I've impressed myself![/I]

Let me reiterate on my feelings on this subject. I am a guy and yes, this will be my point of view ([U]Not up for discussion[/U]) on it. Hopefully, not what you expected.

Do all girls think they are fat? I certainly hope not. Do some? Yes, I have come across that dreaded question, I am sure both man and woman alike have been asked the horrible no-win question "Do I look fat to you?" at least once or twice in their life. I honestly believe there is no answer you can give without offending them somehow, I really don't. I try to give an honest answer and be as respectful as I can about it, but it never seems to work. If I say yes, they may say I am a horrible person! If I say no, they may say I am lying! What gives?

My current girlfriend is slim (No, not trying to be a suck up here, she really is THIN...) and she doesn't ask me that kind of question. And you know what? I really do love her, and if she were to gain pounds on the spot I would still feel as passionate about her as I do now. And you what else? I honestly, down to earth, MEAN that. I was not attracted to her by looks, me and her are almost exactly alike, we get along very well. So I don't care about her cosmetic apperance, and I know she feels the same way. :D

Anyways, back on topic. When I was in high school, I ran across many girls who thought they were fat and were literally...skin and bones. I was usually at a loss of words when I heard this. What makes you think that you are fat? Seriously. I can't stand to see this girls starve and deprive themselves of food so they can be, "pretty", for who? I would LOVE to shake the hands of whoever thinks [i]that[/i] is pretty.

Which brings me to my next topic. Media. Lets see here: Movies, TV sitcoms, Reality Shows, Game Shows, Super Models, and even cartoons (Admit it, no girl or guy will EVER look like the ones you see in anime). What do they all have in common? Unusually good looking people.

Why don't we analyze this further...shall we? Lets start with...Movies.

[B]Movie Actors-[/B] Powerful, Rich, Famous, and [i]Beautiful[/i]. Who DOESN'T want that? When people (Mostly young people but still all ages none-the-less) see them, they drool over them, they gaze, they follow, and they even idolize some of them. Now see, this is the thing. Money, looks, all of that never really means that they are HAPPY. Look at some of them, you DON'T know what really goes on in their life, and I'm sure if you did, you wouldn't exactly look at them in the same way. Not every famous person is enjoying their life. Remember that. Also, don't ever idolize someone. If that person suddenly hits rock bottom...some idol huh?

[B]Reality shows-[/B] Here a little side rant from me...I don't believe there is anything [i]Real[/i] about a[i]Real[/i]ity show. It just all seems...too...FAKE. First off, why is it...that only the exceptionally "Hot" guys and gals get on shows like [U]Survivor[/U], [U]The Real World[/U], and [U]Big Brother[/U]? Coincidence? I think not. Maybe they think it will be a ratings boost if the girls look sexy and the guys are handsome. Maybe they think sex appeal is the way to go in today's world. Maybe reality shows need to DIE. Entertainment? No, more like "Slap in the face!" to all the people in envy out there. They are not examples of the "Real" life you and me experience. Well then again, maybe one of you does have to live out everyday choosing a girl to eliminate till you get to one that you will marry. Kudos to you big man.

[B]Game Shows-[/B] Yeah, I think game shows are corrupt also. Why? Well let me run down my little deduction here...anyone remember the good old days of the really early [U]The Newly-Weds Show[/U]? Now that, was good TV. Ted and Barbera, a struggling accountist and a former waitress now married living out a great life. Awesome. That, was back [i]then[/i]...today it goes a little something like Angela and Hank, a supermodel gone lawyer and the muscle builder on the cover of Muscle Fitness got hitched...yeah okay. Did that happen? Of course not, not ACTUALLY I am just trying to prove a point here (And poke at some fun while I am at it). Come on, would [U]Wheel of Fortune[/U] done as well if Vanna White was not so fit? It's not like they had some guy with glasses up there turning the letters...

[B]TV Sitcoms-[/B] Now actually, I feel sort of split here. Some actually do make me laugh and make me reflect on actual things that happened to me that happened on the show. Raymond's mom on [U]Everybody Loves Raymond[/U] is SO like my mom. :love:

So yeah, that one is really a hit or miss with me. So I won't really touch on it.

[B]Super Models-[/B] Whoa there, stop the bandwagon! We hit jackpot here. Start dishing out the low self-esteem here, we got enough for everyone. This has to be the #1 reason of girls (And some guys...) starving themselves of food and other needs. Why o' why did we make super-model a career? Why? Can you not feel anymore down on yourself? All these magazines have ads featuring super-models wearing their clothing or other products (Like perfume or hair dye and so on) and are almost screaming "Be like me to be cool!" in the faces. What surprises me? People fall for that crap. Go to any high school, find that "popular" group of kids, compare them to a Gap ad or Nike ad...they look almost THE SAME. What...the hell? Times have changed. And besides, Super-models are by far the most bulimic (Sp?) girls I know, and they are shown all over the world and praised. Why [i]wouldn't[/i] girls want to be like that? I mean the models have everything they want! Everything! Except, maybe...I don't know...happiness? But hey, who am I to judge? Not going to change the world here...

[B]Anime-[/B] Yeah, they DO look good don't they? Yeah you [I]bet[/I] they do. You know I was going to have alot to say...seriously...but I am laughing so hard I don't think I can go through with it. Maybe later. But honestly, think about. They can be misleading...LOL

Lastly, I want to touch upon plastic surgery. Which, sorry if it already has been mentioned, I sort of skimmed over the other posts.

Less wrinkles, flatter stomach, bigger breasts, smaller (Or bigger) rear...what is going on with society today? People are becoming more and more...FAKE!!! Seriously, I can't tell what's real or not anymore! LOL and believe me I've been there. My girl? Nothing "augmented" about her. I would leave her if she even [i]considered[/i] anything of the sort. She knows where I stand on it, and I tell her that she is perfect the way she is, no reason to change it. Thank god she feels the same way! Back on track, yes, I really don't understand what is so "Beautiful!" about bigger breasts or anything for that matter. I probably never will. But honestly, can a female please inform me of why bigger attributes is so important to you? Please? I am lost, and rightly so. Now I am not a religous fanatic, but I believe you should stay the way you were born. If you had black hair...live with it. Don't dye it. If you had blue eyes...but wanted green don't get colored contacts JUST to change colors. I mean if you have bad vision, well more power to you! But do you see my point? The real only USE I see for plastic surgery is maybe a burn victim or some kind of patient that has undergone extreme physical trauma. But even then, this urge to feel..."normal"...is ridiculous.

Nobody knows what normal is.

Nobody defines what normal is.

Nobody is NORMAL. EVER.

Everyone is born unique, why be like someone else? It's kinda like that one bumper sticker: "You all laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same!"

Just the honest opinions of a your average joe.[/SIZE]

[James]

[color=#707875]I have mixed feelings about this issue. On the one hand, I understand that there are many women who truly do feel that they are fat when they really aren't. And that's a clear problem, because it can potentially lead to eating disorders and so on.

However, I also believe that some women frequently talk about how fat or ugly they are, because they crave attention. They [i]want[/i] people to rush up to them and say "No no! You're really gorgeous!"

I can think of a few examples of this in my own life, where it's been somewhat obvious. However, again, I want to underline that it's probably a minority who behave that way for that reason. I think many women who [i]do[/i] say these things also seriously believe it, which is a problem.

There is no question that the media has a strong influence on the way women (and men) perceive themselves. I think it's becoming less and less acceptable for a man to be overweight, for example. And obviously it's considered unacceptable for a woman to be overweight.

However, I don't entirely blame the media. I blame a lot of men, too.

There are apparently quite a few men out there who are more than happy to back up these negative stereotypes and imagery. Just look at what overweight girls will go through at school, as an example. Guys (and some girls) are often more than happy to sink the boots in, when it comes to weight.

I know that my sister struggled with this too. She was overweight during early highschool and I know that she was always very insecure about it. I remember one day, she came home and she was in her room all day long...and I remember hearing my mother talking to her while she was crying. She was upset because she felt so terrible about herself -- as if she didn't even deserve to live. I felt completely heartbroken for her.

As it turns out, she lost weight as she grew up...and now she is incredibly sought-after by all the guys her age. lol In fact, it's a little annoying when I go into the city with her by train, because all of the men (including the old ones) stare at her. It's actually quite unnerving, but anyway.

The problem is that she [i]still[/i] feels highly uncomfortable with herself. She may look slimmer, but inside her emotional problems remain. Generally she will never even wear a skirt because she feels so embarassed about going out in public like that, even though she has [i]nothing[/i] to be embarassed about (quite the opposite).

But this is definitely not just a problem for women. It's also a problem for men. There is plenty of pressure for men to be very athletic or something like that. So, it's a universal issue I think.

At the end of the day, I think it's mostly just about being healthy and being comfortable with who you are. If you are very overweight, then that's probably not healthy for you. But I wouldn't tell you to lose weight simply for aesthetic reasons -- my angle would be more related to your health.

However, I do also know that weight can often be the result of genetics rather than diet. My mother has always eaten very healthy food and before she had me, she was very slender. But after first giving birth, she was [i]never[/i] able to really reduce her weight to what it was (even after a period of pretty rigorous exercise). That's not really a case of genetics I guess, but it should be known that being overweight is often [i]not[/i] a simple result of eating too much or being too lazy. I have known several people in my life who always ate healthily and were quite active, but were still reasonably large (one of my kung fu instructors is a great example).

So, I guess it's a complex issue. But there is one thing that reassures me, if I ever worry about things like this. It's that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I've never heard a more accurate phrase than that, really.

The truth is, every single person has their own tastes -- their own idea of what they find attractive. No matter what you look like, there is a good chance that there are people out there who will find you attractive for one reason or another. I can tell you that from personal experience. I've known people to find me completely forgettable (in terms of looks) and others who have thought I was the second coming. lol And everything in between. And I've seen that with my friends and with others too.

So...that's just the truth of it. I could never walk around and say either "I'm so good looking that everyone will love me" or "I'm so ugly that nobody will ever love me", because [i]neither[/i] is true. It all comes down to meeting the individual that finds me to be just what they desire. And in the end, that's what's most important I think, at least in terms of discussing appearances.[/color]

[Arcadia]

[size=1]There's a lot of factors that go into an issue like this that make it difficult to pinpoint any specific explanation of why girls behave they way they do, why we (both men and women) push ourselves to diet and exercise to sometimes an almost unhealthy degree, why we set these celebrities and cover girls and guys as the figures that we need to model ourselves after. I don't know why, but I know that the problem has been around for a long time and it effects most everybody.

I am by no means fat, but for the longest time I was uncomfortable with myself. I never thought that I was overweight in the slightest, but "American beauty" isn't just about being skinny. I was short, I was (and still am, to some degree) a tomboy, I was shy and quiet, and thin as a stick, absolutely no curves whatsoever. I did [i]not[/i] feel beautiful, regardless of what any one might have thought or said. Frankly if I found out a boy liked me it surprised and amazed me. Looking back, I realize that I was and still am lucky to have the parents that I do - even when I wasn't sure of myself they were always there to reinforce the fact that [i]normal[/i] is undefinable because it's a matter of opinion and that I would never be more beautiful than I am when I love myself, no matter what I look like.

Because of that, then, my perception of myself has always been effect by how I view myself in terms of values and beliefs as well as my appearance. If I wasn't happy with something I did or said, then I would feel ugly, regardless of any physical merits.

In the end, I think it's just a matter of growing into yourself. It may not be the same for everybody, but I can safely say that I'm comfortable with who I am mentally and physically no matter what I see on TV. Like others have mentioned, you can never be perfect - we all have flaws. But you should learn to love those flaws. It's not about what others think of you - it's about what you think of yourself. For instance, I have [i]tiny[/i] breasts, a funny little nose, and big cheeks, none of which would ever make it on the cover of Cosmo (or what have you), but I'm [i]glad[/i] for them because they're mine.

If I work out it's because I want to - it actually makes me feel better and gives me energy. The same with eating healthy, as Sara/Lore mentioned. And it would probably be good to remember that part of a celebrity's [i]job[/i] is to exercise regulary and eat certain things - they have personal trainers and nutritionists who they pay to watch those things for them. I also think that while a lot of hollywood is still disgustingly thin and plastic surgery is much too glamourous for its own good, there's also a lot of people there who reinforce the idea that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. Marilyn Monroe was [i]not[/i] a stick. Look at Queen Latifah. She got a breast [i]reduction[/i]. Also, the Bridget Jones movies are all about loving yourself and being comfortable with who you are, no matter what size waist you are.

Anyway, that's my rambly two cents. lol[/size]

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='James][color=#707875']The truth is, every single person has their own tastes -- their own idea of what they find attractive. No matter what you look like, there is a good chance that there are people out there who will find you attractive for one reason or another. I can tell you that from personal experience. I've known people to find me completely forgettable (in terms of looks) and others who have thought I was the second coming. lol And everything in between. And I've seen that with my friends and with others too.[/color][/quote]

Yeah, definitely. There are some people that a few friends of mine find really attractive that don't really click with me at all lol. By the same token, I find that what I see as attractive doesn't click with other people's views, which is fine by me. If everyone on the planet found the same things to be attractive, then the world would be a pretty boring place, I think.

Blaming the media for how people perceive themselves works only to an extent, I think. Of course the images that we're bombarded with every day are going to have an effect on us. Why wouldn't they? However, I think that people in general are more at fault, since we readily take the people that we see on television, movies, etc. and idolize them to such a degree that many people will accept nothing less.

Like Lore said, it's not so much that people are born with the mindset that we're supposed to look like these television and movie stars, but when it's drilled into you constantly by your peers, then it becomes a lot harder to ignore it. How many guys and girls talk about their favorite celebrities [i]incessantly[/i] throughout high school? You know what I'm talking: "Oh, he/she is so hot!! *dreamy sigh*" That sort of stuff only annoyed me, rather than made me feel insecure about myself, but I'm willing to bet that these silly little conversations may influence more than a few people with insecurities about themselves.

I've never been terribly insecure about my looks, though. I don't think that I'm a movie star, or anything, but I'm not ugly, either lol. I have my fair share of physical 'flaws', but I find them amusing more than anything, really. For me, I guess I'm a bit more insecure about how others perceive me based on who I am rather than what I look like. You can always change what you look like, but you can't really change who you are.

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3]Well, it definitely is a matter of taste. That is a given. What I may find attractive, someone else may not. It's really quite simple when you think about it but yet so complicated for some people to grasp the concept. This doesn't apply to only someone else's appearence, it can be about artwork, or your favorite flavor, etc...

I mean how many times have you tried something, say a new kind of drink, and you didn't like it but your friends are constantly saying "How can you not like this drink? It rules!" and so on and so forth. It may not hit them right away, but you know it kinda is comforting to know that someone else has the same interests as you so I can see how that would make sense. Some people just can't take the fact that people don't like something they do. It's sort of unnerving sometimes and can feel a little hostile even. This can be seen in everything from music to food to even favorite colors and things like that. You know for example, "You don't like Nirvana? They begun a revolution!", well to some they didn't.

But on a different scale, our appearence can be taken a different way. I mean some people will love denim, so can't stand it. Does that make the people who don't wear denim ugly? Of course not, but yet I know back in school "fashion" was everything and if you weren't into whatever was "in" at the time, you were NOT "cool" so to speak.

But yes, I do believe the media plays a part in affecting what is "beautiful" and what is not. Bigger than most people might take it for, but as like I said, it's really a matter of tastes (Or in this case: opinions) of each and every person in here.[/SIZE]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Sadly, I do feel that this thread is underrating many men. It's not like every guy wants a skinny girl. But, generally, they're the outspoken minority; and thats why we have this problem. There is a difference between being fat, and being well-proportioned. And I think many girls [esp. insecure girls] do not recognise this. Different girls, of different weights can be attractive. Provided that they aren't overly fat, it [weight] doesn't bother me. Weight is such a small part in terms of attraction. And when you add any relationship or personality factor into the equation, the relevance fades even further. On a scale of 1 [skinny] to 10 [fat] I'd prefer anyone from 3-8. But, thats only in terms of weight. There is much more to a girl than that.[/size]

[Lady_Rin]

Appearence is more than you think. It is not weight or looks that is the problem. It is one of how you present yourself to another in a manner that says expresses credibility, "you may have confidence that what I say is true".

Anyone visiting the desert believes everything Ranger says.

[b]Statement:[/b]Water from a barrel cactus is suitable for survival. T/F [size=1] Make a choice, the answer is at the bottom. Think about what you might know about barrel cactus from TV, books, movies, school. No cheating and no googling the answer.[/size]

If you are talking or listening to Ranger in uniform you would accept that statement, even if it's the red t-shirt of a Desert Adventure guide you would accept that as fact. The uniforms and the word guide says credibility, even though that may not be the case.

Would you accept the same statement then if Ranger was a wearing a purple Tinkerbell t-shirt, even knowing he was a guide of some kind? It would at the very least certaintly colour your thought and maybe raise a question or two about what he is saying.


Always look and do your best. I wish I could get Ranger too.

Now the answer to the above statement. What was your choice? True or False.

The answer is false. While a barrel cactus (ferrocacti) can hold as much as 15 gallons of water, the water can cause death very quicky. The water is usually very alkaline or filled with Oxalic acid. Even a healthy person drinking the water may get very sick, spewing chunks and so forth. There is one species that does have potable water. Rangers never seen one.

[Sara]

[size=1][color=#ff6600]That was crude and unnecessary. I've deleted the offending post and the replies.[/color][/size]

[rainkius]

*I removed the quote cuz they editted it out of others*

:laugh: That's so terrible i can't help but laugh. I don't whether to think you're just some dork trying to piss everyone off, or if you're actually being honest when a lot of ppl who think exactly like you won't. Yeah...wow. I can't even continue thinking about it.

Oh, and if you throw up all the time: a) you smell like it. no one likes the smell of vomit. or at least they shouldn't. b) you destroy the lining of your esophagus. very bad and painful. c) you ruin your teeth. bad teeth = horrible smile. and nice smiles are so important.

I have all male friends, and they always say stuff like this (not the stuff coconuts said, but the thing about curves being good, and anorexia being gross, etc), and yet, who do they end up going out with? Oh that's right.. the painfully thin girl. One friend who has tried desperately to convince me i'm not fat (i'm just in the range of upper normal weight) and is extremely against any and all vices (smoking, drinking, drugs) got with a girl earlier this year... and guess what she was? The bisexual (this ties into some other theory i have about girls pretending to be bi to pick up guys - i dont actually have anything against bisexuals) pothead girl who weighs about 90 lbs, wears a size 00. yeah...ok. Having all male friends has made me even more convinced i'll never find i'm a guy i'm attracted to who will be attracted to me. This is despite the fact that when i talk to them about being rejected by someone, they give me that bs about how "he's missing out on dating a really great girl" and "the problem isn't you, bc you're beautiful and sexy" and it's all HIS fault for not realizing it. :rolleyes: I find it hard to believe it's so painfully obvious to the rest of the world except my current crush. Liars, all of them. :grumble:

I think most guys want the girl who wears a size 5. So really staunchly the "normal" weight. Nothing over that will really be accepted, but under that is fine. This is, of course, simply based on the experiences i have had.... perhaps one day they'll change, and i'll actually meet someone who likes me, hips and all. Or i'll eventually succumb to inner pressure and develop some sort of eating disorder. Who knows. :nope: