Anime Do you think Anime has gone mainstream?

[Guest FirePeleKa]

[FONT=Georgia][COLOR=Indigo]I was arguing with my fan translation group earlier today, and would like a broader view.

The concept is this; ?I hate the fact that anime and manga have become so mainstream.?

I however don?t feel that to be true. Millions of people watched, Star Wars that aren?t true fans that liked it anyway. I believe the idea of community, holds a deeper bond than mearly being a subculture.

Tell me what you think.

Thanks[/COLOR][/FONT]

[James]

[color=#707875]Note that this may end up becoming closed if we've had something too similar recently; I'll let the Moderators here decide that.

My answer is pretty simple though. The whole idea of something becoming too mainstream tends to come from people who want to feel important. They want a clique that nobody else is a part of. They want to understand something and know about something that nobody else has access to or knowledge of.

That's my basic thought.

Having said that, I'm sure that when something becomes mainstream (either anime or video games), there are some possible negative consequences. But really, when something becomes mainstream, that's entirely a good thing -- you're talking about a much, much bigger market overall. This means that there is room for both the big productions and the smaller, more independent productions. In all, it's a win-win scenario most times.

If I were a hardcore anime fan, I'd be in support of anime becoming mainstream. It just means that more people will get to enjoy it, and it means that I can share it with more people too.[/color]

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]I don't remember this thread coming up, but it often gets debated in other places, heh ^_~

I don't quite understand the definition of 'mainstream' in this context. Is it specific animes that are being marketed above others, or is it just becoming more popular in general? But either way, I don't think it's anywhere near mainstream in the same way that TV shows like Buffy have.

Personally, I'd like to see anime becoming more of a mainstream genre of TV and video entertainment, certainly in the UK where the market is really rather poor. I don't mind who else likes it- I want to be able to see it more often, and I would very much like it to be appreciated by a wider audience. As it is, if everyone relies on fansubs and fansubs to see it, the anime companies are losing out on money so they have less money to produce more high-quality stuff. I don't want all of them to be mass-marketed on the scale of Pokemon, but to see a wider selection of shows broadcast and available to buy would be most welcome to me. Especially as I won't have to avoid mentioning it in public >.>

I agree with James that some people (especialy fanatics) want to feel that they retain an air of sophistication over everyone else who doesn't like what they do, and really it's a silly way of thinking about things. But it happens everywhere- if you don't like football, you aren't as good as the people who do, which isn't the case.

But why should you have to be a 'true' fan to appreciate something? What is a 'true' fan, anyway? Somebody who buys every piece of merchandise of a series ever and has six different versions on DVD? I'd have thought anyone who likes it could be definied as a fan if they thought they liked it enough. I dislike the concept of elitism- as much as I like anime I don't berate people who don't, because I'd be no better than the people who'd berate me for liking it.[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=FirePeleKa][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=Indigo]I was arguing with my fan translation group earlier today, and would like a broader view.

The concept is this; ?I hate the fact that anime and manga have become so mainstream.?

I however don?t feel that to be true. Millions of people watched, Star Wars that aren?t true fans that liked it anyway. I believe the idea of community, holds a deeper bond than mearly being a subculture.

Tell me what you think.

Thanks[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Depends on where you live, I guess. I would say it hasn't. The companies here in America are walking a very fine and dangerous line--the market is virtually saturated, and with more titles being licensed every year, I expect the bubble to burst relatively soon. This won't have to be anything terribly dramatic, but I'm pretty certain the demand for collectibles like figurines and so forth is going to let up in the near future. The industry already seems to be moving away from the artbox craze.

I don't see how you can get much more "mainstream" than Lord of the Rings or Star Wars, as both of those franchises encompass top-grossing movies and incredibly lucrative lines of merchandise including toys, trading card games, novels and DVDs. The amount of, say, anime DVDs sold each year is chicken feed in comparison. Since no one is going to agree on the definition of a true fan, you can't really use that as a basis to judge anime's mainstream-ness or lack thereof.

~Dagger~

[EVA Unit 100]

Somehow I feel that anime has actually gone a de-mainstreamification. Yes, anime is found on American TV on the Anime Network, the soon-to-be Animax USA, G4Tech TV, Starz Action, Kids' WB, FOXBox, and Cartoon Network, but 2 (soon-to-be 3) of those networks only approx. 15 people recieve, 1 of those networks nobody knows airs anime, and 2 of them don't even ackknowledge what anime is, leaving Cartoon Network the only current option to bring anime into the mainstream.

And travelling back in time to 2001, they are doing a damn good job. DBZ is at it's hieght with the new dubbing studio. Sailor Moon is CN's #1 show with girls. Gundam Wing is pushing the definition of "children's programming" to the limit. Tenchi makes the Top 100 list frequently. Outlaw Star is red hot in high-schools. The Big O passes the test of America better than that of Japan. Cowboy Bebop is the most popular show on the original Adult Swim line-up. CN was definately doing something good.

Cut to 2004. Toonami is only 4 hours on Saturday, only 2 1/2 of which consist of anime. It's weekday replacement, Miguzi, shows many anime-inspired/rip-off shows but no real anime. Adult Swim mistreats it's anime line-up, failing to make an even balance of anime and non-anime yet not treating the anime that's left like the highlight of the block (although the good treatment of GitS does seem like a positive step in a better direction). Gundam SEED, which did well in the ratings for the 12-17 demographic CN promised the new Toonami would aim for, bombed due to lack of 6-11 year old ratings. Next to no anime on weekdays. And What is left on weekdays? Yu-Gi-Oh. Transformers. Duel Masters (which has a pretty funny dub, but still appears to be like Yu-Gi-Oh and isn't a great example of anime as a whole). 1 hour and 1/2 of AS anime, which includes Inu-Yasha (a good series, but by no means belonging on AS in any way) and the WR/WHR hour (which'll likely put most viewers to sleep, especially with WR, the worse series of the two, airing first). Will this minimal selection on weekdays give anyone in the mainstream a good view of anime? No. If anything, Inu-Yasha could open up some doors if it was given a primetime timeslot just before AS. Most of the anime that's worth anything on CN is either burried in obsucre timeslots on Friday late nights/Saturday early, early, early mornings or airs on Saturday nights, the lowest rated night on TV, without any mainstream fanfare outside of the network itself. Sundays only have on freakin' hour of anime, and it consists of *gak* Yu-Gi-Oh and Super Milk-Chan. CN is a major force in anime becoming mainstream, and if they continue slacking, bad things may happen.

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Heh, mainstream...

In the sense that anime has become just another accepted means to deliver entertainment or convey a story, yes, it has indeed become mainstream. In the sense that anime has become accepted as being a distinct medium; having its own strengths and weaknesses; being able to express or hinder certain elements within a story differently than other mediums, anime has not even come close.

In the former sense, most people are aware of anime, and no longer express (openly at least) disgust or interest in it. They are familiar with the term. Sure, sometimes you have to call it "cartoons," but they know what you are talking about. There are even quite a few people who saw an anime movie or series and thought, "that wasn't bad." What I mean is, around here, you can't find many people who, when introduced to anime, respond with, "Ewww! It's that aneeemay $h**."

In the latter sense, these same people mentioned above don't really see anything special about anime. They will see it, think its ok, and never really look back and think, "Would I have had the same experience if it was done with real actors? Would the story have any different effect?" The ones that do, though, mostly answer these questions with, "Yeah, this was done before, and was better with real actors. It was ok, but it was pointless to draw all that." Here is where anime still needs to work at becoming "mainstream."

Certainly, Pixar and its awesome animations are making the transition so much easier for anime to become something more than just a superficial entertainment medium in the eyes of the masses. For example, it's hard to convince a person that [B]Ghost in the Shell[/B] did the whole "man and machine" thing better than [B]The Matrix[/B] did; but it is very easy to convince someone that [B]The Incredibles[/B] wouldn't have had some of its charm if it was done with real people.

Sorry for not discussing anything and just putting my two cents in. ^^;[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]I think anime has just become its own niche, once you get past the every day fans who watch InuYasha at 10:00pm on Friday night, every week.

Being into anything beyond that, or talking about anime that most people haven't even heard of typically just lands you with the label "geek".

More Japanese titles are being brought over from Asia, and the fanbase is definately growing, since anime is more readily available, what with digital fansubs and whatnot, but it's not exactly "cool" to be really into it.

So, sure, anime is becoming more mainstream, but Dungeons and Dragons is mainstream, too, and it isn't as though the masses spend hours discussing it.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[DarkOtakuBoy]

I beleive anime has taken off quite a bit during the last year or two. The Best Buy anime section is growing bigger every month (at least here in New Jersey), and Suncoast is really becoming an Anime store. The Suncoast at the mall near my house is like 70% anime and manga. They now also sell japanese kanji jewlery, manga, magazines, toys, shirts, and even Japanese soda and snacks. Almost every customer is there for anime.
Aside from that, I noticed more and more people in my school wearing anime or Japanese themed shirts and talking about "that new Inuyasha movie" I mean, I think this is a great thing. Anime is much more accessible, its REALLY easier to make otaku friends somewhere other than the net (and i recently made one with this awesome dude, Chris, in my philosophy class of all places. yay!)
The problem is.....when something, and it can be anything, becomes TOO mainstream, it becomes watered down for the masses. Resident Evil franchise anyone? Punk rock music? Metallica? lol. I can go on, but suffice to say, theres a happy medium between Hollywood level mainstream and an underground esoteric lifestyle. That happy medium is where anime is getting to be, and I'm more than thrilled about that. but there is a danger of becoming too mainstream and TOO marketable. Personally, I dont think that will ever happen with anime though.

[Delta]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]
Are we talking about Japanese anime here? I once asked my friend why "Titan A.E." was under the category "anime". I said it shouldn't be 'cause it had CG animation and... and then he countered my argument with Blue Submarine #6. I didn't want to tell him that I doubted its classification because [i]it wasn't made by the Japanese.[/i]

The term "anime" was coined by the Japanese to refer to any animated film, be it from Studio Ghibli or Disney. It seems that outside that country, "anime" refers to animation works from Japan.

Taking the Japanese definition for "anime", I think that it had become mainstream even before the advent of Tetsuwan Atom, that anime entered the entertainment industry when those machines that you wind to flip pictures became popular.

People who say ?I hate the fact that anime and manga have become so mainstream.? don't probably realize that by watching "Beauty and the Beast", they're already supporting this style of moviemaking.

Meow, that's what I think.
Love and Peace!
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3][I]Anime? Mainstream? NEVER![/I]

Seriously though, it sort of depends on how you want to look at the situation. Kinda like that cup with water. Is it half full or is it half empty?

Is anime not popular enough? Or is it too popular?

What do you think?

Me personally, I think that it's gotten to the point where more "average" viewers are getting into anime than you would think. If not getting "into" it then at least acknowledging what it is. I remember bringing up a discussion of Evangelion a couple years back. People had NO idea what I was talking about. I perfered it like that, so me and my friends could chat on uninterrupted. No more than a month ago, sitting in a cafe again discussing Evangelion, three random teens (Two guys and a girl who really did not look like they were into anime, think football jocks and cheerleader here) out of nowhere just butt in. "Are you talking about NGE? Oh my god! I love that show!"

Needless to say, I was like...whoa. Before I knew it, they were sitting down explaining stuff to me. I had a notepad, writing things down, literally like "That really happened!?!", you would be surprised.

But it is almost evident, with more and more popular series overseas getting licensed and aired here in America, why wouldn't it become more mainstream?

When you really considered it though, when the average person thinks anime, they might probably think about Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh (Is this a fact? Of course not, I am just making an assumption off the people in my area). Why? Well for one thing, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh [i]define[/i] mainstream in my opinion. Look at those two juggernauts! Movies, Clothing, Toys, Cards, TV-Episodes, Stickers and all that good stuff...the works! That is what you call marketing. Do other shows have all that merchandise? Probably. Would they sell as much? Probably not. So really, only a few shows have gone mainstream. But enough to consider anime in general to have gone mainstream? Yeah.

Anyways, like I was saying I believe that more people know what anime and manga are, unlike previously before. With games coming out including many "anime-like" tendacies, whose to say? ZOE 2: The 2nd Runner was a great game, and was an anime show of its own practically. (No, I am not talking about the [I]real[/I] ZOE anime, that was confusing as hell)

So in closing, Do I think anime has gone mainstream? Yes, I do.[/SIZE]

[Guest FirePeleKa]

To everyone who responded,

I would just like to say thank you. Getting a broad viewpoint, is the best reason to voice things on boards. And I really appreciate yours.


Thanks again.

:)

[Hito]

i heavily believe that anime is going mainstream. Im seeing FMA and Ghost In the Shell on Adult Swim and mayn more on the On Demand section. i think thats why the Anime Channel was invented. i know people know who werent really into anime, and now they watch Trigun and Cowboy Bebop. sp yes, anime has gone mainstream

[Miyoko-chan]

[COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Anime is definitely more mainstream than it used to be. The only anime I used to see when I was younger was Sailor Moon and Thunder Cats.(Is that an anime?) Now there are at least ten series running on different channels.
I've been labeled 'weird' because of my love for anime, but that is only because of my location. Idaho isn't exactly culturally advanced. I was shocked when I found out that in other states, some schools have anime clubs, and being an anime fan is perfectly normal! Another thing that shocked me is the popularity of anime conventions. In states like Ohio or Florida, anime conventions are common and very crowded. I mean like thousands of people crowded. In Idaho, we get one a year, and only a couple hundred of people are expected to show up; and that's if we're lucky. I plan on going of course, but I have a friend who is constantly bugging me about it.(She doesn't like anime).
Even the Otaku wasn't very crowded awhile ago. Just last year, if you submited some fanart, it would stay on the new page all day, maybe even two days! (I know my site says I've only been a member for a few months, but I used to have a different account.) Now look at the difference! You're lucky if it stays on there for more than a couple of hours!
Another way to show the growing popularity of anime is to look at bookstores. When I first became interested in manga, my favorite bookstore had only three or four series for sale. Love Hina was one of them. ^_^ Now the store has at least thirty or forty series for sale!!
Anime is going mainstream. Slowly but surely. [/COLOR]

[Humaru]

Anime is way to mainstream. people who aren't even fans are starting to like it. Pretty soon somebody who isn't a real fan will find the ob's and exploit it. Then every one will be on this site. This site is for a selected few who respect and love manga and anime. A test to show who really likes anime and manga is to ask them questions on animes and give them a manga to read to see if they know how. We have to stop this .

[Noside]

Hey Humaru, have you been reading some of the other posts? Preferably James and Solo Tremaine's.


In a way it's gone mainstream and in a way it hasn't. It mostly depends on our definitions on mainstream. It's definately come a long way and is becoming mainstream,but it's still not there. I think it will become mainstream eventually, but it's not there yet. Anyone who doesn't have cable around here can only view anime from FOX, all other channels like TechTV and CN are provided by cable. So I don't think anime's everywhere, maybe if it gets a primetime spot on one of the major noncable channels it will have gone mainstream. Hell I'm hoping for the day that Anime becomes mainstream, sure there's a lot more anime now than before, but it still has room to grow.

[EVA Unit 100]

[quote name='Humaru']Anime is way to mainstream. people who aren't even fans are starting to like it. Pretty soon somebody who isn't a real fan will find the ob's and exploit it. Then every one will be on this site. This site is for a selected few who respect and love manga and anime. A test to show who really likes anime and manga is to ask them questions on animes and give them a manga to read to see if they know how. We have to stop this .[/quote]

What is wrong about people starting to like anime? Shouldn't you be glad that the public is starting to recognize the genius of anime? Ultimately had such animes as Spirited Away, Inu-Yasha, Cowboy Bebop, Gundam Wing, Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Robotech (a compilation, but still anime), Speed Racer, and even Astro Boy made their marks in American pop culture there'd be hardly any "fans" in America to begin with. What logic says anime can't be enjoyed by the mainstream? American cartoons such as The Simpsons and Shrek are huge in the mainstream, and outside the country of origin, some storytelling styles, and a bit more genre diversity and looser censorship, anime as a whole doesn't really have any ultra-huge difference from American cartoons as a whole. And what defines a "true fan"? Someone who loves every series there is? Ultimately, if someone was crazy enough to like Fighting Foodons and Weddding Peach, I don't see how they could possibly understand more intelligent, higher-quality series like Evangelion or Fullmetal Alchemist (no offense if anyone actually does like Fighting Foodons or Wedding Peach). Did you ever take into account that anime is fairly mainstream in Japan? Over there, Doraemon and Lupin are major icons of pop-culture while One Piece and Gundam Destiny are gaining hot ratings and Miyazaki's movies break one record after another. If the Japanese (and even the Mexican) public can respect anime, why can't the American public do so?