It takes a village...

[Lady_Rin]

I think it's time I started a thread to see where it goes.

Today we went to nonsecular naming and blessing of baby Ella brought into this world by my friends Elise and Andre. I think they are similar to Christain Scientists or a new age sect. That doesn't matter. Their spiritual advisor Lisa performed a beautiful ceremony as the sun went behind the western mountains (about 4:00). Ella was annointed with rose oil from a single white rose symbolising purity and innocence. During Lisa's sermon(?) not the right word but it'll have to do, she said something I though was quite wonderful especially considering that we are a small community for the most part and those of us who were there are very close friends. What she said not only had a special meaning it was also very simple.

It takes a village to raise a child. It takes the community to teach love, compassion and acceptance.

That's all she needed to say.

[IMG]http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/desertranger/kisses.gif[/IMG]

Goodnight, it's time I made dinner.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I agree with that...but that saying is not exactly original. The phrase 'it takes a village to raise a child' is widespread.

I don't see what your point is, if any.[/size]

[Adahn]

[b][font=Trebuchet MS][color=darkolivegreen]I grew up in a place very separated from everything else. The only community I had was school, and school was a bad thing. I was taught hate, isolation, and ridicule. I got all the good stuff because it was in my nature, and because my parents raised me right. It wasn't that my home community was bad, it was just that there wasn't much of a community to begin with.[/color][/font][/b]

[Lady_Rin]

[quote=Adahn]

...it was just that there wasn't much of a community to begin with.[/quote]

I didn't say it was original and many people may have never heard it.

On the other hand; that is the point.

Adahn understands; do you now see what I'm trying to say?

[DeathBug]

I'd argue that point, for the simple reason that I never had a warm community growing up; I remained isolated, and I was taught love, compassion and acceptance by my own family. It takes responsible parents to raise a child.

[James]

[color=#707875]Just because it didn't happen for you doesn't mean that it can't (or shouldn't) happen for others.

I guess I agree with the statement, I mean, in an ideal world it would be true I suppose. Unfortunately far too many communities focus on what divides them, rather than the more important things (ie: providing a safe environment for kids and allowing kids to grow up happily without too many pressures from school and stuff).[/color]

[DeathBug]

Of course it can happen, and I'm sure it's nice if it does, but it's not neccessary.

[dMage]

[COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Times New Roman]I think that yo[FONT=Times New Roman]undefined[/FONT]u guys are searching for your "immediate community" and not lloking at others. While it does take reponsible parents to raise a child right, the most loving, caring, and wisest of parents still need help from the community, or in other words, the other people that their children interact with, for their child to grow up strong and safe.This community includes relatives, friends, neighbors, and even online people (at least nowadays). As long as a couple of these are good, then the child has better chances of leading a happy and healthy life.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Maybe by village you can mean your family instead of an entire community since now a days most communities tend to just stick to themselves and in ancient times (don't mind me, my Wicca one class is just kicking in) many villages were comprised of extended families instead of many different non related families.

For example, I have a lot of help with my daughter in my family. They don't help me to raise her persay. but if I need help trying to figure something out, or if I'm busy my family pitches in to help me. My mom's family is especially good at that.

That isn't to say that some communities don't help out, if you've ever been in a military town you learn pretty fast that when you don't have family around having a lot of friends can make a big difference. You help them out when they need it and then they help you in return.[/color]

[DeathBug]

The problem applying with that saying to life in Western countries is that it is an African proverb, and African counties are collectivists, viewing the family or the village as the basic social unit. In Western countries, we are individualistic, viewing the individual as the basic social unit.

In the area the saying originates from, it's true, because the entire society is structured that way. In Western countires, it's not nearly as emphasized.

[Lady_Rin]

Most of you have the idea. It means raising a child is the responsibility of everyone. At one time it did mean a village of extended families. We find that in the Indian history here. Today it is no longer an group of extended families but it does take the community, the school diistrict, emergency servces, shopkeepers, ranchers, rangers and even the bikers have a share in the responsibility. In this particular case I think it means the family of extended friends who help as well.

I just had another thought. Since we are surrounded by the military here, are they part of our village? We certaintly help them a lot. In the last year and a half we have sent 500 mil spec body armour vests to Iraq, 1000 care packages, hundreds and hundreds of letters. We are helping their families with repairs to their homes, food anything we can do. Did you know that the average American trooper up the rank of major lives well below the poverty level?

:flaming: :angry2: [COLOR=Red]What are you doing for our troops?[/COLOR] I send a care package to deployed troops every month. It cost me about $200 personally. Yes, they [i] are[/i] a part of our village which now stretches into unfriendly places yet they are still part of our village.

[COLOR=Red]So just [i] what[/i], are [b][i]you[/i][/b] doing for our troops? [/COLOR] [COLOR=darkRed] Even if you don't believe in the war; What are [b][i]you[/i][/b] doing for your brother/sisters, friends, classmates, and neighbors?[/COLOR]

Of the permenant party marines stationed at the base here 35 are not coming home to mothers/fathers, wives, lovers and their children.

[COLOR=dodgerblue]So [i]what are you doing[/i] for our troops?[/COLOR]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Lady_Rin]
[COLOR=dodgerblue]So [i]what are you doing[/i] for our troops?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Well my husband (lcrisler) is stationed in Iraq (30miles north of Bagdad) at the moment. So I send him boxes pretty much every week. They contain the usual stuff like food, magazines, kool-aid and at times cds. For his birthday I gave him an MP3 player some Chuck Taylor Converse sneakers, some shorts and a t-shirt. Occasionally we send him socks.

Whatever Lincoln doesn't eat he shares with his friends. If you want to send things to guys over seas you can contact your local reserve station or recuiting office. Or email lcrisler, he has some other addresses that you could use. Especially since some guys don't get stuff sent to them.

Blessed Be-
CHW[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I still can't see that you're 'saying' anything. You can't disagree with your statement, because communities do affect how people grow up. They might not affect them in a good way, but it still affects them.

Essentially, you're making a statement about how a phrase touched you. And thats nice, I have no problem with that. My point was that it didn't say anything. It doesn't have to either, mind you.[/size]

[Zeta]

I agree that it takes a village, just not only a village. Sure a parent can teach you how to act in public and everything but does it always just end there? It is the same thing with math. You can be taught how to do something and you know the steps to do it. But you won't know until you actually try a problem if you truly understand how to do it. I could be taught to act like a proper kid when I am in a community, but when I get there I figure out it is much harder to actually act the way I was taught. Again the same thing with math, depending on the person of course.You are able to actually get out and act on what you are taught if you are part of a village, you need experience, which is something you won't get just from your parents. It does take a family to raise a child yes, but it also takes a village.

[Lady_Rin]

[QUOTE= Baron Samedi]I still can't see that you're 'saying' anything.

... how a phrase touched you[/QUOTE]


I does say something, it says that raising a child whether 1 or 100 is the responsibility of everyone who touchs that childs life, it works.

Here's a good example; Ranger is talking about a another forum I belong to and the apparent effect I have had there.

[QUOTE=Ranger - Nov, 16?]

...The use of "coarse language" has diminished and Rin stomps you of you don't show some manners. Am I right? When she shows up some place here (at home) where there are kids gathering, even the HS kids say "Good Evening, Miss Rin". ...

She insists that all the children here have manners and has infected the local schools with it starting back when our kids were in kindergarten when she was a volunteer. She never let it go and mostly it worked. at least when the kids here are in public.[/quote]

I have children in high school (15 & 18) that's your age. I have watched and help raise many of them. What kind of effect have I had (I had to think about this, Ranger and Wendy gave me some of the answers) This is in addition to what Ranger said.

Approximately 1/2-2/3 will stand when a lady walks into a room. All of them stand when a teacher walks into a classroom because the local schools now teach manners and etiquette in the classroom.
Most have stopped wearing hats indoors, even in restaraunts.
Many hold doors open for the elderly and women/girls.
You don't hear anyone calling women/girls "'Hoes and b____hes like you hear on TV and radio. That is totally disgusting. The first time Ky said it I washed his mouth out with soap.
Many of the boys, the tough kids or homies as Ky calls them no longer where their pants with their underwear showing.
The HS has re-instituted detention as discipline and that seems to work.
Zero tolerence, a program and atittude that dosen't work, has been replace with working off the offense around the school and other help to the community.
Tagging has drooped off.
Most important, it seems that there is more respect and tolerence here than in other places.

Do I need to go on?

"It takes a village to raise a child". That says volumes in itself.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote name='Lady Rin']I does say something, it says that raising a child whether 1 or 100 is the responsibility of everyone who touchs that childs life, it works.[/quote]

Yes. You're right. But, can anyone really disagree with that? I'd assume that most people would be aware of the effect society has on them. As such, I stick by my guns, because you're not really saying anything.

On a side note, I'm [i]really[/i] impressed that you, singlehandedly, managed to turn your entire town around.

[COLOR=White]Tongue in cheek.[/COLOR][/size]

[Lady_Rin]

I saw that, "Tongue in cheek".

I didn't do it by myself I had a lot of help and it took a long time.

[quote name='Baron Samedi'] I'd assume that most people would be aware of the effect society has on them.[/quote]

I would like to be able to agree with you but I don't think that is the case. In the last few years city-zens have moved here; these new families though they live here don't really participate in the community. Their children are ill mannered and run wild with little if any guidance from their parents. Their parents are totally unaware or don't seem to care about what is happening to their children or what they are doing. This has had a negative effect at local schools. I have never seen a city-zen parent at any school function or community event. They don't even come to the Alamo which is the main place to socialize here. I could go on and on however I think I made my point.


[QUOTE=Lady Rin][SIZE=1]
Approximately 1/2-2/3 will stand when a lady walks into a room.
local schools now teach manners and etiquette in the classroom.
Most have stopped wearing hats indoors, even in restaraunts.
Many hold doors open for the elderly and women/girls.
You don't hear anyone calling women/girls "'Hoes and b____hes...
[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


Those that don't are invairably the the children of the city-zens. There are two city-zen families on our road with teens. Ky doesn't want anything to do with them. He told on of them, a boy his age, if he ever came on our property again he was going to take him into Pinto Basin and leave him there.

Pinto Basin pre-historically is where Pinto Man was discovered. He lived there 9000 years ago when it was a shallow lake. It is the most inhospitible piece of real estate within 100 miles of here. Being told your are going to Pinto Basin when said seriously means you not liked and don't belong here. The local families on our road have tried to make friends and welcome them yet are rebuffed everytime. A child cannot be raised by the village if the parents won't take the responsibility to be part of the village.

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Thats fair enough. I was being tongue in cheek, but not nastily ~_^

These people probably feel different. Maybe they'd rather keep to themselves, or maybe they [i]are[/i] snooty. But it is their choice. I don't always want to talk to people either.

Maybe its my situation, but some of this seems amazing that it has to be taught, and some of it needless that it is being done.

For instance, it may [i]have been[/i] polite to rise whenever a woman enters the room, but does it solve any purpose? No. Hats in restaurants are a definite no, but I'd say classrooms are acceptable.

Holding doors open for people is something you just do, especially if you're a kid. At the least, as you're leaving, if someone is close behind you, you give it that extra push so that it stays open.

And as for calling women hoes and bitches...what a bunch of wannabe thugs. In Australia, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who genuinely talks like that, especially as many people would burst out laughing if some wannabe gun-slinger said that.[/size]

[Gavin]

[SIZE=1]Interesting, most interesting.

Just a question, how can you have a non-secular blessing when a blessing is a secular event ? That was just something that stuck out at me as I read the summary to this.

I agree that the community has an influence on the growth of a child, I've lived quite near a small village for the last decade and I can definitely say it had an influence on me, unfortunately most of those were unpleasant influences. Still I have met people outside my family who have influenced in many good ways while I have grown, I disagree though that it is the responsibility of the "[I]village[/I]" to raise children.

As for your comments about the Iraq War as well as the soldiers stationed there, (many of which also landed in Shannon Airport to refuel even if we're supposed to be neutral) I would make the point that they knew what they were getting into when they joined up. 100,000 Iraqis have been killed since the start of the Iraq War, I could equally ask [B]what are you doing for them and their families ?[/B] [/SIZE]

[Lady_Rin]

[quote name='Kane']Just a question, how can you have a non-secular blessing when a blessing is a secular event ? [/quote]

I think you should look at a dictionary. :) Non-secular is world of religion.

[quote=Kane]

a) I would make the point that they knew what they were getting into when they joined up.

b) 100,000 Iraqis have been killed since the start of the Iraq War, I could equally ask what are you doing for them and their families ?[/quote]

a) These young men and women are the same as British and Irish soldiers or the warriors of any country in the world. They are following the orders of their commander. In this case it is a megolamaniac who over here is known as Mad King George IV and his flunky the Jester Tony Blaire, even among many of the soldiers.

b) 1: I am an English citizen and living with my husband, an American, in his country. I'm not doing anything for the Iraqies as they don't want us there. If we try to help, they kill us. If we leave them alone, they still kill us. Why should I help?

b) 2: It seems to me that there are more Iraqies killing Iraqies than anybody else doing so. They walk up or drive in loaded with explosives and detonate themselves by children, women and the elderly. They don't need any help. They're killing themselves very efficiently without the help of other nations.

b) 3: My husband is a retired US Air Force officer. I do not support this war. I do support our troops. It's not support the politicians who created this war. It is those who die at the whims of the politicians who have my heart.

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=Lady_Rin]I think it's time I started a thread to see where it goes.

Today we went to nonsecular naming and blessing of baby Ella brought into this world by my friends Elise and Andre. I think they are similar to Christain Scientists or a new age sect. That doesn't matter. Their spiritual advisor Lisa performed a beautiful ceremony as the sun went behind the western mountains (about 4:00). Ella was annointed with rose oil from a single white rose symbolising purity and innocence. During Lisa's sermon(?) not the right word but it'll have to do, she said something I though was quite wonderful especially considering that we are a small community for the most part and those of us who were there are very close friends. What she said not only had a special meaning it was also very simple.

It takes a village to raise a child. It takes the community to teach love, compassion and acceptance.

That's all she needed to say.

[IMG]http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/desertranger/kisses.gif[/IMG]

Goodnight, it's time I made dinner.[/QUOTE]

Ultimately I think that the parents are the most important influence. The 'villiage' is best for teaching citizenship, the parents are best for teaching basic behavior and morals.

[Lady_Rin]

So next to the parents and immediate family who are the most important people in a childs life. I wuold put teachers after they start school.

[Lunai]

[font=comic sans ms][color=blue] :sweat: Gee, Rin, I hope you're not mad that I took me so long to get here!

Well, I've got an interesting perspective on this. From the age of about 9 - 18, I was being rasied by my Godmother. She had seemed to my Mom to be a good example of a woman who had raised several children, all of whom were productive & seemingly happy adults, without polic records or dangerous addictions.

But my Mom didn't know that my Godmother has problems. Problems of the sort that turned into me being abused, and my Mom being lied to.

As far as a village raising a child, I sometimes wonder how different it would have been for me growing up if someone had bothered to say something. Teachers of mine who knew that something was wrong. Schoolfriends who thought it was a bit weird that I never got to go out after school and do anything.

And as far as our troops go: I have recently started a relationship with a young man who is a Staff Sergeant in the Air Force, and is being shipped out to UAE in the next 3 weeks. For at least 3 months. And I am terrified, especially after spending 8 days with him. Absolutely terrified that the first person I have ever felt this way for will be taken away from me in a battle that I am politically against. So what did I do? I told him. Told him about my love and my fears. I let him know how I felt. I gave him my heart and soul (and I doing so, followed some great advice from Lady_Rin).

There are no guarantees, but I can do my best. I can write my letters and send my gifts and make my prayers.[/font][/color]

[Lady_Rin]

Poor Lunai, she now knows the feeling of sending a loved one to war. I have done the same thing many times and even though I knew he was safe I was always afraid for him.

We here, the members, of otaku boards are Lunais' "village".

All of my love to Ssgt Goose. May the Spirit of the Desert walk in his shoes.

Did you put one on his wrist?

All of my love to Lunai who is my friened.

Personal to Lunai. We made it safely to Morrow Bay.