Balance

[Adahn]

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]First, I will make an assertion. Balance is in all things. My support is simple. Chemistry, Math, and Physics all rely completely on balance.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]If you wish to challenge my assertion with any point, I will defend it.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Having asserted that, I will apply it to something that is not physical, assuming that since balance applies to all things we do understand, it applies to things we don't completely understand.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]If there are such things as souls, they must follow Balance. I will assume that if souls exist, they are immortal. From this, there are two possibilities.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]1. There is no such thing as a soul.[/color][/size][/font]
[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]2. There are souls, and each and every soul has always existed in one way or another.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]I will assume the Christian ideas are correct, but most religions can be substituted in for the points I will make.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Our souls, being everlasting, must have come from an everlasting spiritual source. This source is God, as he is everlasting.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]I've just confused myself terribly and disproven the point I was trying to make. Stupid Balance.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Anyways, if anybody cares to disagree (or agree) with my views on Balance, feel free. I can adequately defend this more than anything I've ever said before.[/color][/size][/font]
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[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Cool, cool... No qualms at all (pretty solid, in fact).

But... what's balance have to do with your soul idea? :confused:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Adahn]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][font=book antiqua][size=2][color=blue]Cool, cool... No qualms at all (pretty solid, in fact).

But... what's balance have to do with your soul idea? :confused:[/color][/size][/font][/QUOTE]
[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Just that if souls follow the law of Balance, they can't have originated from nothing. They must have existed (in one form or another) for all eternity. They can't simply be 'created' from nothing at all. Matter/energy follow the same rules. Every bit of matter/energy that exists today has existed for eternity in one form or another.[/color][/size][/font]

[Afire]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Red]It would seem to me, that the the only thing an eternal soul would need for balance, would be an eternal flesh body. Death does not balance life. Man cannot balance his own judgments. He was never created to be a judge. Man creates unbalance in everything, because...man uses death as his balance.

Man is not the creator of balance, no matter how hard he tries to believe he is. He only has the ability to see balance and appreciated it. God created it.

Christ hung as a balance for everyone to restore balance in the spirit and flesh. Eternal life is the only balance man lacks. If mankind would enter into what Christ finished, the balance of spirit and flesh would be complete and everything else would fall into place as it should be in this world. On earth as it is in Heaven.

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Job 31:6 Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.
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Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.
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Pro 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
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Pro 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD'S: all the weights of the bag are his work.
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Pro 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.
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Isa 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
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Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

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Isa 46:6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Brasil]

I really don't see the point of this thread. So, Math, Chem, Physics all follow a law of Balance, and if Souls exist, they too follow the laws of Balance, because we're treating them as having the same properties of a chemical equation?

[quote]Having asserted that, I will apply it to something that is not physical, assuming that since balance applies to all things we do understand, it applies to things we don't completely understand.[/quote]
I don't see how this is able to be done. The "Balance" associated with chemical equations is a specific type of Balance that is exclusive to chemical equations, just like how the "Balance" of Newton's Laws are exclusive to the subject and foci of Newton's Laws. Yes, they're all called "Balance," but they're different types of balances, I think. I mean, there's a fundamental difference between say, mixing acids and bases and throwing a ball up into the air.

I just don't see the point of all of this, because if this entire thread is based on an assumption that something metaphysical follows the same "rules" as something physical, then right there, it's a faulty discussion, because the very meaning of the word, "[i]metaphysical[/i]" means something beyond physical, meaning, it doesn't adhere to the same rules as our physical world.

I really don't see the point of this thread, because by the very nature and definition, metaphysics and physics do not follow the same principles and rules.

[Adahn]

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]That's actually not what metaphysical means at all.[/color][/size][/font]

[b]met·a·phys·i·cal[/b] [url="https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmetaphysical"][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg[/img][/url] ([color=red][font=verdana, sans-serif] P [/font][/color]) [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html"][b][color=#0033ff]Pronunciation Key[/color][/b][/url] (m[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gif[/img]t[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif[/img][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]-f[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif[/img]z[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif[/img][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif[/img]-k[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]l)
[i]adj.[/i]
[list=1]
[*]Of or relating to metaphysics.
[*]Based on speculative or abstract reasoning.
[*]Highly abstract or theoretical; abstruse.
[*][list=1]

Immaterial; incorporeal. See Synonyms at [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=immaterial"][color=#0033ff]immaterial[/color][/url].
[*]Supernatural.
[/list]
[*]often [b]Metaphysical[/b] Of or relating to the poetry of a group of 17th-century English poets whose verse is characterized by an intellectually challenging style and extended metaphors comparing very dissimilar things.
[/list][font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]Unless you're using some other definition of the word, my proposal that things metaphysical in nature must be in some sort of balance with other metaphysical things is a topic that cannot, by definition, be tossed away.[/color][/size][/font]

[Brasil]

[QUOTE=Adahn]That's actually not what metaphysical means at all.

met·a·phys·i·cal [url="https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmetaphysical"][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg[/img][/url] ( P ) [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html"]Pronunciation Key[/url] (m[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gif[/img]t[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif[/img][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]-f[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif[/img]z[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gif[/img][img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif[/img]-k[img]http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]l)
adj.
[list=1]
[*]Of or relating to metaphysics.
[*]Based on speculative or abstract reasoning.
[*]Highly abstract or theoretical; abstruse.[list=1]
[*]

Immaterial; incorporeal. See Synonyms at [url="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=immaterial"]immaterial[/url].
[*][b][u]Supernatural.[/u][/b]
[/list]

[*]often Metaphysical Of or relating to the poetry of a group of 17th-century English poets whose verse is characterized by an intellectually challenging style and extended metaphors comparing very dissimilar things.
[/list]Unless you're using some other definition of the word, my proposal that things metaphysical in nature must be in some sort of balance with other metaphysical things is a topic that cannot, by definition, be tossed away.[/QUOTE]
I suppose you missed Item 3.2? Soul = supernatural, Adahn.

[Infinite2002]

Afire was on the right track with his/her description of spiritual balance, however, I believe he/she didn't go far enough into detail as the host of this thread would like. In order to fully define universal balance, one must first consider half of everything is true and the other half of everything is false.

With this in mind you may now develop a further understanding of balance. Because half of everything is true and half of everything is false the reality of balance is now unveiled. We now know there are two sides to all that exists (i.e. every action has an equal and opposite reaction, light and dark, day and night, good and evil, yin and yang, etc). Because of this we know that everything be it spiritual, physical, metaphysical, emotional, mental, and even metaphorical must be divided in half to be completely understood.

Before that, the true meaning of metaphysical must be established. Metaphysics is an underlying philosophical or theoretical principle such as the belief in luck. Metaphysics, in actuality, is the study of the nature of reality which is the definition carried into it's descriptive form; metaphysical.

Back to the explanation...Man can only appreciate the nature of balance for it always has been and always will be, balance is everlasting. There will always be a good and evil, a light and dark, an old and new, a yin and yang, a day and night, etc. However, the reason balance is everlasting is because it is tied to an everlasting being...something that balance MUST attach to to set order to all that exists. That being is God, without God there would be absolutely no balance and all that is created shall be destroyed in the same matter and reverted to the form in which it originated. This form is nothingness; empty space.

A further description and also the relevance of God in this topic would be Gods omnipotence and eternal wisdom. God knows all and is the wisest of all that are wise thus God can never be wrong. If God were to be wrong at any time then God would no longer be omnipotent and all shall fall out of balance and cease to exist. Because of such a strong position on the positive side of the scale there must be an opposite entity that is ALWAYS wrong. This entity must be like God, however, cannot BE God for God already exists. This entity is Satan. Satan is the opposite of God; all that is created he seeks to destroy, all that God loves he hates, etc. Because God is the ultimate good Satan must be the ultimate bad and therefor creating a universal balance.

The principal of yin and yang allow us to further understand this. God is evenly balanced at 360 degrees, he makes his own decisions and is the epitome of perfect. Angels and demons (including Satan) only posses 180 which means they can only perform on one side of the scale, either good or bad, there is no in between for them. Man was created to be perfect and posses the perfect physical form of God hence man was created to posses a balance of 360 degrees also. This gives us our free will, our ability to make our own decisions be they good or bad.

Jesus was sent to save mankind which would restore the balance of the universe for God so loved ALL He created. Now we are balanced once again until the second coming.

[Afire]

[quote name='Infinite2002']Afire was on the right track with his/her description of spiritual balance, however, I believe he/she didn't go far enough into detail as the host of this thread would like. In order to fully define universal balance, one must first consider half of everything is true and the other half of everything is false..[/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Red]I guess I'm not much of a debater, lol. I usually do the debating within myself and come to my own conclusions. I am my worst enemy that way. After that, I'm pretty solid in my thoughts about what I believe to be true or false. Maybe that's bad, but it makes me happy. *smiles* Long debating and arguments with others tend to give me a headache. *takes aspirin*[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[quote name='Infinite2002']The principal of yin and yang allow us to further understand this. God is evenly balanced at 360 degrees, he makes his own decisions and is the epitome of perfect. Angels and demons (including Satan) only posses 180 which means they can only perform on one side of the scale, either good or bad, there is no in between for them. Man was created to be perfect and posses the perfect physical form of God hence man was created to posses a balance of 360 degrees also. This gives us our free will, our ability to make our own decisions be they good or bad.[/quote]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Red]I don't know much about the principles of yin and yang. What you said about it pretty much applies to every religion that gives satan power. I believe that satan has no power on the balance scale. So that principle doesn't fly for me. Somehow it reminds me of a comic book hero god. It only works for those who deny the perfect balance of a perfect God who is omnipotent in power alone. I think it is man alone that tries to tip God's scales with man's ultimate will to die. Until that will changes... man will always blame satan for his own un-balance.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=Infinite2002]
Jesus was sent to save mankind which would restore the balance of the universe for God so loved ALL He created. Now we are balanced once again until the second coming.[/QUOTE]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2][COLOR=Red]I believe that the second coming of Christ has already happened. The truth of what He finished is in the world. It is in me and others. It is in everyone, whether they choose to receive it or not is up to them. There is only perfect balance in truth. Truth not only balances the flesh and the spirit; it actually binds them together in love.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Ezekiel]

[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue][SIZE=1]I really do agree with Siren on this one, I'm not too sure of why you posted this thread and how you can associate the Balance within equations to that of the longevity of a soul. Maybe I've misread something but that's the idea I'm getting.

I appreciate your point to some extent but I do think that you should have used a different example if you were comparing to a soul.

Maybe a tree? A tree dies but its seeds go on living and the cycle goes on, like that of a soul. It's body dies but the essence stays.

I do believe in this idea because it seems to tie into reincarnation, again, if this wasn't the idea you were getting at then I'm sorry, guess a lack of sleep interprets things differently for me. [/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote name='Adahn']Every bit of matter/energy that exists today has existed for eternity in one form or another.[/quote]

And my friend, thats where you are wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. Delicious word is it not?

In all physical instances, excepting nuclear, the conservation of matter and energy applies. We all know that 'matter nor energy cannot be created or destroyed'. However, that is one big crock of crap in regards to nuclear physics. When a small piece of matter is destroyed, energy is created.

Bye bye matter, hello energy.

And you're ignoring the other valid point that souls have absolutely no reason to obey the laws present in this plane of existence.[/size]