Stand up or Die?..you choose

[Heero Darkangel]

Ok I've been thinking about this for sometime now...I don't know if anyones done a thread like this before..but I'll try it

Ok a while ago ( i can't remember when it happened so i can't give any time lines) I was watching the news on t.v...i was really bugged about one of the news reports...you see there was a lady ( i think she was a sercurity guard..I can't remember too well)...who was attacked and beaten by two or three men...she defended herself by pulling out her gun and she shot one of them in the leg...and she was had up for attempted murder....while her attackers got let off with a warning (I think)

There have been a number of cases where someone has either defended their lives...or defended what they worked hard for by using a weapon..whether its a gun, knife, stick..whatever and have been charged for doing the wrong while their attacters are set free

What i'm trying to get at is....what else are you ment to do when your own life hangs on a thread of existence and extinction....there's no way in hell you can make a call to the police when your getting your arse kicked!.....

So I'd like to know what your opinion is on this and what you'd do in a situation like that...would you stand there and get you arse kicked or even get murdered or would you stand up for it all?

my opinion...I would of done exactly the same if I was in a situation like that, I too would pulled the trigger if anyone attacked my existence and tried to kill me..but I would of aimed for the head only because I know that I'd be charged..so i would of made it good and gone down for a murder not an attempt...noone threatens my life and gets away with it.

[Guest ScirosDarkblade]

It's ridiculous. I know for a fact that if I'm in a similar situation I will either try to escape or, if that is not an option, completely incapacitate the attacker by whatever means necessary (including killing if it comes to it). The justice system in the United States is too often perverse, and it is a shame that honest law-abiding citizens get punished for self-defense while the true criminals get a break.

I don't carry any weapons on my person, though (occasionally a knife, but that's when I'm away from civilization), so I'd have to use martial arts to defend myself. I don't know how well that would hold up in court if I did some real damage, though...

[MissWem]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Fight or flight response.

My answer is like ScirosDarkblade's.

The only thing that makes it more unfortunate that such events happen is that the way the felon can work their way around the law like that with decent lawyers.. it's all so tedious.

Although arguably, by aiming for the leg that's clearly a move to incapacitate not to cause mortal injury so it can hardly be viewed as being viewed as an attempt. Bottom line, that sucks.[/COLOR]

[Heero Darkangel]

Yes it truely does sucks....I mean....why whould they accuse the lady of attempted murder when all she was doing was trying to defend her self...its absurd!!..and it makes me boil.....oh by the way..this happened in New zealand!!!

[Shwa]

Well we have to undersand that different areas have different laws and stuff, but I have to say that is prety messed up. She should have been the one who got off easy instead of her attacker, it was her life on the line and not his. I can't beleive they made up a law like that, sometimes it is good but it should actually help out the good in the first place, not the bad no matter the situation. If he got shot then he deserved it :devil:

[Lady_Rin]

Heero Darkangel have you read the thread in firearms?

Taking a life is abhorrent to me. I have always thought I couldn't do it even to save myself. However after recent discussion on this forum and talking to Ranger I am no longer sure what I would do. I have certainly given it more thought recently than I have in the past.

[quote=Ranger]

you have been told by Rin what I would do; do not hesitate and blow him in half. Your life is at stake here so kill them all. I defend my self with Lama Omni .45 auto pistol loaded with Hydroshocks and I don't miss; so if you get hit anywhere your going down permantly. Incapaciting someone is Bravo Sierra. If you are attacked and in fear of your life you have the [B]legal and moral[/B] right to defend yourself with lethal force. That may be how she is being charged. excess force. If she had killed them all and then said I was afraid for my life more than likely show she would have been cut loose.

If you go to a fight don't bring a knife, bring a gun. [/quote]


He can be so charming in the morning.

[...Coolness...]

Personally, I refuse to take up any firearms of any kind. In the event of a mugging, I would allow them to take my things, for they are only material, unneeded, and the robbers will soon get theirs anyway. If My life was threatened, I would not attempt to kill the person. Instead, I would fight to get away, and then take off. I would not just let myself get beat up, but I will not kill them either. I would probably be praying to God, and I know that would give me stregnth to go on.Though, my opinion may differ from others, that is just what I think. :p

[Brasil]

Obviously, I'd try to avoid any physical conflict when at all possible. I find that a nonconfrontational verbal/psychological approach is often a better solution when successful. My initial response in a situation like that really depends on the situation itself.

If I get sucker-punched, as it were, I'm physically retaliating and dropping the attacker to the floor (here's where pressure points and ah...particular body parts are useful), putting them in a restraint, and then begin the talk when they can't breathe. You'd be surprised just how effective that is, and just how responsive someone becomes when they aren't getting any air.

If they refuse to back down, however, then they're not going to enjoy the end results.

I'm a pacifist more or less when it comes to conflict, much preferring a non-violent solution whenever possible, but that's not possible sometimes, so I accept the necessity of violence.

[...]

In a situation like that, my only thought would be to get away. How I get away would completely be a spur of the moment type of thing. Would I use force? Yes. Do I carry a gun? No... any sort of weapon? No. So this makes me absolutely defenseless. If I were in trouble, you better believe I would find anything around me to bring my attacker down. Even if I were to be MUGGED, I would not just stand by idely and let them take something that belongs to me. Because the way I see it, if they are bold enough to take your purse from you, or a wallet... they're bold enough to take more than just that. Maybe the situation would seem more serious for women. It's just one of those things that unfortunately, have happened to many people. Even in school, things like this happen. Whether physical or sexual, there is always some punk trying to hurt someone else. And no one gets away with hurting me...

[Fyxe]

[size=1][color=darkblue]Here is my question, if that lady was a Security Guard, why would she be charged for that? She is a part of the Police Force in a way, plus, she would be doing it to 1. Guard her life and 2. To guard whatever she is there for in the first place. I mean, really, she is a Security Guard, it's her job to do that.

Now that I have that out of the way....
If I were in that position, of course I would defend myself, it is a humans natural reflex. We don't want to feel pain, so we automatically curl ourselves up, block attacks, and even throw a few kicks, punches, whatever your brain thinks of first. If you are not strong enough to defend yourself enough, I think you [I]should[/I] carry a weapon with you, even just a pocket knife.
But, me, I know plenty of Martial Arts to defend myself. You don't need to beat the ***** out of them, just enough to get away. I find it stupid that some people get attacked, and then they start beating the living daylights out of the attacker, then you really can get yourself charged and have a reason for being charged.
On the subject of the law... I don't think the government should press any charges on you what-so-ever if you are simply defending your life. I find it extremely ridiculous to charge someone for being mugged, attacked, raped, whatever the situation and then defend yourself with a weapon. Weapons, guns for example, were made for protection in the first place. Therefore, why not use it if you need to protect yourself?[/color][/size]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='...'] Even if I were to be MUGGED, I would not just stand by idely and let them take something that belongs to me. [/quote]

[color=green]As much as I like money, I'd rather lets someone have my wallet than risk dying over it.

I'd defend myself in a more serious situation, but definitely would choose my battles. Unless it's imperative I act aggressively, I wont. Some things just aren?t valuable enough to risk getting hurt for.[/color]

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3]I would probably just let them have whatever they want. If they are after my belongings, I say to hell with it. Take it. It's not worth fighting over. Money, credit cards, photos, identification...can all be replaced. If that is all they are asking for, I am not going to put up a fight. I would rather sit in the DMV for another 10 hours than lie in a hospital bed for a week or longer. You probably heard this before, but risking/losing your life over things like money is so pointless and just flat out ridiculous in my honest opinion.

On the other hand, if this person wishes me harm, then it's a Do or Die situation. I will struggle with them as it's either going to be him or me lying on the ground in a few minutes. I might as well make it him.

If the law states that I was out of line, well the law is wrong. They were not there, I was. My life was in danger, not theirs. The choice was mine, and I knew full well what I was doing before I did it. Whether I hurt my attacker or murdered him is not the problem, I was provoked and by law I should have a right to defend myself. If actually defending myself is a violation of that law...well then so be it. Corrupt? No, but just a little unfair.

If someone is hell-bent on killing me, well I am not going to sit by and let them achieve just that. I will resist and fight back to the best of my abilities. Like wise, if someone else is having their life threatened, I will do what I can to help them. No, not like in a super-hero type way. Like as in the police have yet to arrive/haven't been notifed yet, and this attacker is just about to harm/kill another bystander, well I am going to try and take him out.

I don't carry weapons on me, I feel like I have to. My college campus is safe, for the most part. We may have that minor altercation between a guy or two, but that's about all the danger you see around here. Lastly, if somebody were to threaten my girl, well then all bets are off then. I won't hesistate to stop this person, no matter the consequences.

I honestly feel that way.[/SIZE]

[MissWem]

[quote name='Lix][size=1][color=darkblue]Here is my question, if that lady was a Security Guard, why would she be charged for that? She is a part of the Police Force in a way, plus, she would be doing it to 1. Guard her life and 2. To guard whatever she is there for in the first place. I mean, really, she is a Security Guard, it's her job to do that. [/color'][/size][/quote]
[COLOR=DarkRed]I'm sure there are a lot of people who are wondering about that.. But I guess a possibility is that she may have been off duty at the time and Heero Darkangel doesn't have the full story so there must be other issues taken into consideration. she may have injured more than one person even after she successfully defend herself.. I don't know but it's possible.

However it is unnerving to realize that despite what your job incites it won't neccessarily be a safe defense for you.

People do tend to say they would act in a certain way if threaten but often when it comes right down to it.. [i]If[/i] it happens (and hopefully one never ends up in a life-threatening situation) what you may claim you will do might not happen. I have been in less than safe situations where I might've ended up with more than a minor bruise so I know I can stay reasonably calm.. but if threatened with a weapon by a stranger with a high possibility of being injured perhaps killed I don't know if I could be calm.

Btw.. are you [i]sure[/i] it was in NZ??? Coz if it was then, man I'm so out of touch with the local news 0.o[/COLOR]

[SilverCyclone]

I would make sure that they never threatened anyone again. Its stupid that for just trying to stay alive you get punished. And if the attackers are let go, I would probably go berserk. Ive seen similar cases in which the attacker sues the person for harming them while they were trying to steal the victims belongings or hurt said victim. I mean, how stupid do people have to be to let such horrible acts go on?! I think the juries who make the decisions have the mental capacity of a rock, if even that! But i do agree with you Heero in that if I do get charged, it should be for murder, not attempted. I would jump at the chance to hurt someone who thinks they can push others around.

[MaineOtakuNo2]

Although I am once again in a bad mood I think I can get my true thoughts out on this:

You have the responsibility to be armed, however this does not mean a gun. I have heard a story like this one and the attackers were unarmed, therefore they stated that she used unnecessary force. Back to my point, in the US it is stated you are responsible, not able, but responsible to bear arms. That may, however be my interpretation. In the case of defending yourself, If you have a chance fight, If we let them all go we will have to sacrifice again and again, and those perps you let get away, could kill your family one day. I feel that if someone commits an unjust action let them take the unjust consequence.

[morbid angel666]

if my life was in danger, i would kill, but it depends if i had a gun or not, if i didn't have a gun i would try and defend myself by any means nessercery, but it's not every day you take a gun out with you?

[...Coolness...]

I have already posted on this...but I would like to say more.

Many people believe that carrying guns protects them. A lot of times, tho, it may actually get them killed. It is all a cycle. The homicide rate is high, so people go out and buy guns for protection. This tho, increases the homicide rate even furher. SO, more people buy guns....and on and on and on. How will it stop? By guns? no way. You can do your part, and stay away from guns.

[James]

[color=#707875]Although it's fine for you to discuss the pros and cons of gun control or carrying a gun on your person, I really [i]don't [/i]approve of people unnecessarily providing information on weapons here at OtakuBoards.

Remember, this place is suitable for all ages and threads in OL don't carry ratings, as they would with stories or RPGs. So please, discuss the issues, but don't start sharing such information on the site.

Also, I strongly advise against using other people's accounts to post, even if they allow it. This could lead to potential problems. If you violate the rules while under someone else's account, that person may easily be banned. And there is really no recourse for them; saying that they let someone use their account really isn't an excuse. Everyone is responsible for their own accounts, so please remember that.[/color]

[Lady_Rin]

[QUOTE], I really don't approve of people unnecessarily providing information on weapons here at[/QUOTE]

I can understand that James, and you can be assured that Ranger will be admoinished for what I also consider a less that acceptable post.


Unfortunately firearms are fact of life. As we discussed I do not approve of them, yet from Rangers point of view, if more people knew about firearms then perhaps there would be fewer gun accidents. A few weeks ago there was a story from the low desert about a 14 year old accidently shooting his sister. He is being charged for her death. This is something else that has been increasingly in the news, the death of a sibling through the improper handling of firearms.

My children started shooting at eight, so have many of their friends. I watch them carefully when they handle firearms. All of them, without exception, check to see if the breech is clear as soon as they pick up a weapon and before they lay it down. It's automatic; since this is what they have been taught from that very first shot at eight years old. There are few gun accidents here, they always occur among the children of the city-zens who are now moving into this area and papa buys a gun for some reason. There has never been a gun accident among the local children.

I agree with Ranger and other gun proponents that gun safety should be mandatory. Whether you own one or not. Whether you like them or not. If you don't know how to check to see if it is empty and safe...

[center] [color=red] [SIZE=6]Leave it alone![/size][/color][/center]

There is another thing Ranger bangs people with very hard, so I am going to do it to you.
[FONT=Tahoma]
[size=2]
[COLOR=Red]There is no such thing as an unloaded gun.[/color] Even if you just checked it, there is still no such thing as an unloaded gun. Most gun accidents occur from someone who says "I didn't know it was loaded". Of course it was; know why?[/size]

[center]
[COLOR=Red][size=5]There is no such thing as an unloaded gun[/size].[/COLOR] [/font][/center]

A firearms safety course gives you the knowledge you need to check to see if a weapon is clear. Contact your police dept for course information.

Can I hit you with it again. I am going to hit you with it again until you learn.

[center]
[COLOR=Red][size=5]There is no such thing as an unloaded gun[/size].[/COLOR] [/center]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[QUOTE=Heero Darkangel]Ok I've been thinking about this for sometime now...I don't know if anyones done a thread like this before..but I'll try it

Ok a while ago ( i can't remember when it happened so i can't give any time lines) I was watching the news on t.v...i was really bugged about one of the news reports...you see there was a lady ( i think she was a sercurity guard..I can't remember too well)...who was attacked and beaten by two or three men...she defended herself by pulling out her gun and she shot one of them in the leg...and she was had up for attempted murder....while her attackers got let off with a warning (I think)
[/quote]

[color=indigo]At first glance the story about the woman seems ridiculous. I mean, she was getting beaten and accosted by multiple men, she should have the right to defend herself. However, there [b]could[/b] be extenuating circumstances that you don?t know about. Let us do a hypothetical. The three men are actually teenagers between 17 and 18 that were suspected to be shoplifting at a mall that the female security guard works at. The female security guard tries to stop the suspected thieves and they bolt. One of them pushes her down while he runs by. Out of frustration the security guard takes a shot at the guy and hits him in the leg. Obviously most rational people would consider this an excessive use of force.

I don?t know if this is what happened, but I do know that there tend to be two sides to every story, regardless of what the media prints or says. In our society you can be accused of a crime and an investigation will ensue. If that investigation leads to plausible evidence (which must have been the case in this incident) you can be charged with a crime, and if you are judged guilty by a jury of your peers you will be convicted. If you are falsely accused of a crime with malicious intent then you have both civil and criminal repercussions that you may take.[/color]

[QUOTE=Heero Darkangel]What i'm trying to get at is....what else are you ment to do when your own life hangs on a thread of existence and extinction....there's no way in hell you can make a call to the police when your getting your arse kicked!.....

So I'd like to know what your opinion is on this and what you'd do in a situation like that...would you stand there and get you arse kicked or even get murdered or would you stand up for it all?
[/QUOTE]

[color=indigo]I would never be in a similar situation because I would never carry a handgun. If someone attempted to mug me and I felt threatened I would give them my money (rarely do I carry much cash and credit cards can be replaced). If I didn?t feel threatened I would retaliate, although I am not going to act like ?Johnny Tough Guy? and say that I would kick their ***. I?d probably just try and fight them off enough to get away. Some things aren?t worth crossing that line where anger just becomes all consuming. I got into some fights when I was younger and that happened and I still regret those instances.
[/color]

[Attimus331]

Well, it's a little more complicated. If they were to start letting people off for shooting people in the leg, then they'd be going against that law that protects us all. Even if the person was defending themselves. Who's to judge who the innocent and guilty are? You would have to have some real solid evidence one way or the other, a shot wound is pretty hard evidence...

Now i'm not disagreing with you necessarily. If i were in that position i might have shot, if i truly felt it was either me or them. If i thought i could get away only getting beat up, then i would. I would never want to take a life, it's not right, it's just not. But if somebody else's life were threated, especially a loved one, i wouldn't even hesitate, i'd aim and shoot. And i'd aim to kill.

There is no such thing as a perfect government or set of laws, there will always be flaws. The only possible way to even get close to something perfect would be to become a dictatorship. It's a good idea, it's just that most dictators go corrupt, and lose it. If they could get a really good dictator, someone truly pure and good, then it'd be close, but only in opinion. Ah! i'm getting confused now. I don't think it'd be possible period.

[Lady_Rin]

What if there were no guns or explosives. If they had never been created and the only weapons available were swords, knives, and bows with arrows. Do you think that would bring the incidence of death, injury or violent crime down? How do you think that would effect society. Perhaps instead of shootouts there would be sword and knife fighting. Muggins and robberies at knife point or with a handgun size crossbow? Would that make a difference? Would the incidence of violent crime be the same, more, less?