what if the vanetians defeated the ancient greeks?

[Miryoku]

what if the ancient foenetians defeated the ancent greeks before the time of socrates, plato,and pothagaras?we would not have math like we do today. what state would the earth be in, would you even be reading this right now probably not (that was a dumb question) any way would otakuboards even exist? would we even exist? would we be living in small villages in mud huts? what do you think. does math realy matter that much?

[Sol-Blade]

[SIZE=-3]First off, it's phoenicians. Secondly, I don't ever remember them being at war with the Greek City-States. Maybe at a disagreement with Thebes or something, but I doubt they would ever challenge the likes of Sparta and Athens.

Ahem, anyways...I guess if the Greeks were to be decimated "Before their time", it would have been a much different world than we see today. For one, democracy would have probably never reached the years of today, considering it was born in Athens. Neither would have alot of architecture, which we borrow alot from the Greeks.

But most damaging of all, was that if the Greeks were destroyed we would have never seen the likes of Rome. Rome borrowed MUCH from the Greeks. There was a saying, that said "Greece has conquered her rude conquer" that meant that, even thought Greece was under Roman rule, Greece ruled Rome [i]technologically[/i] and without Rome, I doubt that much of today's [i]world[/i] would be as it is today. Since, you know...alot of world governments base their systems on the achievements and technological breakthoughs of the Romans.

The basic principles of Roman Law were:

1. All people are equal under law.

2. A person is innocent until proven guilty.

3. Guilt must be clearly established in a claim for any punishment to be dealt.

4. The accused can face the accuser and defend himself.

5. All decisions must be based on fairness to both parties.

Sounds a bit like...today's law doesn't it? I mean, all over the world these are [i]still[/i] the basic principles of Law. Back in those days, these laws were revolutionary since they were in a world where the principle was An Eye for An Eye.

I once heard...that An Eye for An Eye makes the whole world blind. Thank god for Rome!

Just my theory anyways...[/SIZE]

[Endymion]

[COLOR=Navy][SIZE=1]I agree with Sol-Blade that the Phoenicians were never really embroiled in war with the Greek City-states. Spartans would've layed some serious damage army-wise, while the Athenian navy would've crushed any naval might the Phoenicians could muster. But if the Greeks somehow got decimated, either by foreign invasion or natural disasters or if Zeus said 'die', the world would probably be different than what it is today. As Sol-Blade said, we wouldn't have seen the likes of the great empire of Rome. (Which would suck, because the Greco-Roman ages are my favorite in history) Before the imperium was established the Romans had a senate, which was based from Greek, mainly Athenian ideas of democracy. It helped push democratic ideas towards future use. An empire rose from what was once ruled by a senate, and an it was truly magnificent how the Romans handled things. An expansive set of stone highways helped trade and military movement. Intricate military tactics and a standardized training regime for soldiers(at least until the empire started to crumble). Anyway...if Greece somehow got obliterated, then Rome wouldn't have been the Rome we know of today, and so on and so forth. :p [/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]How insulting! To belittle the rest of mankind is just unacceptable. Do you really think a war no one cares about would have that level of impact on the future?

As great as our... "philosophical masters" are, they sure aren't the only ones who can BS their way to recognition. If they didn't come up with those ideas, someone else would have. There are many cases in history where two people discover or conclude the same thing (even at the same time), but one person gets credit because he was able to publish it before the other guy, or the communication barrier caused most of the world to overlook someone else's earlier discovery.

A good example would be Mendel. There his records for the patterns of inheritance were, recordings and all. It wasn't until fifty years later that, when someone else came across the same discovery, did they recognize Mendel as the father of genetics. To put it simply, Mendel made a discovery, and, if no one ever found his papers, the only difference today would be that it wouldn't be called Mendelian Genetics. If Mendel discovered anything at all or not didn't matter too much because someone else figured it out later anyway.

Remember, there aren't only a select few intelligent people in the world: everyone has a different situation and/or time they come from, and, if the scenario calls for it, there will always be someone to rise to the challenge.

So, in short, I don't think the war's outcome is that big a deal on today's situation. We'd just have different (and maybe even better) names for a few things.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Godelsensei]

[COLOR=Gray][FONT=Courier New]Oh [i]please[/i].

[i]Every[/i]one successfully invaded and occupied Greece at some point or another in history. One more to the count wouldn't have resulted in much.

Besides, the Chinese got on quite well, mathematically, without having anything to do with my long-dead relatives.

Basically, read what Azure said. The man's never wrong.
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[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]Obviously, there may be some things different, but you have to look at it like ripples in a pond.

How big a splash would it make?

Would the pond be calm again? [i.e. could the same things occur a different way]

And how far do the ripples spread?

I think that it wold be relatively similar to what we have today. Some group, somewhere would have come to the principle of democracy. But we can only hypothesize, never know.[/size]

[Adahn]

[font=Courier New][size=2][color=blue]I think it would be interesting for a group of extremely intelligent, specialized people to project the consequences of such an event using mathematics, anthropology, and other applicable disciplines. I think that the Greeks made such a huge impact on the world that the ripples created by them would affect everything that has developed to this day.[/color][/size][/font]
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[font=Courier New][size=2][color=#0000ff]From another point of view, one could propose that our societies today are based upon the natural progression of our species, and only trivial things would be different.[/color][/size][/font]
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