What do otakus think about Homosexuality?

[Morpheus]

[quote name='Xander Harris']Hmm. I don't think that is necessarily true. Is it insulting a murderer to tell him killing people is wrong?[/quote]
Yes, but you don't have to be a murderer. It is not engrained inside of you, you do it for a reason.
He has said he tolerates but he does not accept. I am saying no matter how he says it, it insults them. He's not trying to, he just is. A gossip can change his/her ways. Homosexuality is related to what hormones your body likes. Could you just become Homosexual right now and like it? The answer is no. Why do you consider one type of sex natural, and the other simply a "behavior"?

[quote name='Chabichou']Afterall, one of an organisms goals in life (intentional or not) is to reproduce is it not? Homosexuality is an obvious barrier when it comes to reproduction.[/quote]
No. The goal of the species is to reproduce. If one does not reproduce, the species survives.

[quote name='Chabichou'] For instance, public washrooms are seperate for males and females because of our sexual differences [/quote]
No they are not. We are seperated because of PHYSICAL differences. I don't want to go into detail. Lesbians physically cannot use urinals because of their physical makeup.

[Decadence]

[url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/03/05/notes030504.DTL[/url]

[color=silver]A very liberal look at the whole gay marriage thing, and yes I do agree with it. But as to beuing homosexual, its not a choice your born that way, and yes you do insult them when you tell them its wrong, its not a choice, its not liike my friend woke up one day and thought "oh i'll be gay". Because if you think abotu it being gay has been around for ever, just more accepted now, so more people are coming out, because they're not thought to be sinners and persicuted, well if they come out i doubt they'd be persicuted because fear goes along way to keeping some one in the closet. (ok i know that was a little confusing) What i was trying to say is, it is obviously not a choice because people were gay when they were executed for it, and if your going to be executed for something why would you do it if it was a choice?
(Well I'll edit this if i re-read it later and dont have any idea what I was trying to say, I have a feeling it was very convuluted.)[/color]

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=ShadO MagE]

[color=silver]A very liberal look at the whole gay marriage thing, and yes I do agree with it. But as to beuing homosexual, its not a choice your born that way, and yes you do insult them when you tell them its wrong, its not a choice, its not liike my friend woke up one day and thought "oh i'll be gay". Because if you think abotu it being gay has been around for ever, just more accepted now, so more people are coming out, because they're not thought to be sinners and persicuted, well if they come out i doubt they'd be persicuted because fear goes along way to keeping some one in the closet. (ok i know that was a little confusing) What i was trying to say is, it is obviously not a choice because people were gay when they were executed for it, and if your going to be executed for something why would you do it if it was a choice?
(Well I'll edit this if i re-read it later and dont have any idea what I was trying to say, I have a feeling it was very convuluted.)[/color][/QUOTE]

Note: I am explaining why I think it is possible to be opposed to homosexuality, but not hate homosexuals from a Christian perspective. If you think the Bible has no bearing on this, your opinion is duly noted. I don't think people properly understand the position that Christians such as myself take, so I am going to elaborate. Bear with me, or ignore this post.

Whether or not homosexual tendancies are a choice is irrelevant. The doctrine of Origional Sin is that we are all born with tendancies toward sin. Ever since Adam fell, sin has been a part of human existence from the moment we enter this world. I was born with a tendancy toward grudge holding, selfishness, dark thoughts, hedonism, lust and pride. Others may have indeed been born with tendancies toward homosexuality.

The idea within Christian thought is that when we accept Christ's payment for our sins, the Holy Spirit begins to work in our lives to remove our sins. However, this process will never be completely finished in this world. We have daily to strive against the sinful nature.

If someone is a homosexual and a Christian, the Spirit will work within them to bring about change. Perhaps the change will never be complete in this life. Perhaps they will struggle with it for the rest of their lives. I know I will continue to struggle with the sins I was born with until the day I die. It is not insulting to me for someone to point this out. Homosexuals who become Christians need support and help with their sins as much as anyone else. The primary problem I see with many Christian's attitudes toward homosexuality is that they are viewed as enemies rather than fallen people in need of help like anyone else. Homosexuals have been needlessly villified to the point that some seem to view them as evil incarnate. And we should not point out the speck in our brother's eye while we ignore the log in our own.

O.k. Theology over. Practically, I think that whether or not gay marriage is legal has little bearing on the mission of the Church to help heal homosexuals. America is not a theocracy, and I don't think homosexuals threaten the Church nearly as much as some people seem to point out. We should be there to help those who either have fallen into (or were born with) homosexuality, instead of attacking them.

[Decadence]

[color=silver]Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not real relegous. With what you just said about sin and such it means that it is a choice is relevant. Because if its a sin, it must a be a choice, because one has free will. I just want to get this cleared up to be sure i understand this completely, not trying to derail this thread, into a theological disscusion. But I am quite confused on how weather it is a choice or not is irrelevant.
Edit: So from your last sentence, your saying homosexuals want to be "cured"?
[/color]

[Xander Harris]

:( ( Well, this is embarrasing. I just managed to double-post.... My reply is on the next page. (can a mod delete this post, please?) :blush:

[Xander Harris]

[QUOTE=ShadO MagE][color=silver]Ok, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not real relegous. With what you just said about sin and such it means that it is a choice is relevant. Because if its a sin, it must a be a choice, because one has free will. I just want to get this cleared up to be sure i understand this completely, not trying to derail this thread, into a theological disscusion. But I am quite confused on how weather it is a choice or not is irrelevant.
Edit: So from your last sentence, your saying homosexuals want to be "cured"?
[/color][/QUOTE]

I don't think this is hijacking the thread. I am attempting to impart understanding of the worldview a significant percentage of this nation holds, but articulates poorly and often in a distorted manor. I think that understanding the position one of the most vocal sides in the debate is highly relevant to the thread.

Sin is rebellion against God. We are all born with these rebellious tendancies, because all of humanity has rebelled against the Lord.

We are born with tendancies toward sin. Yet we can decide whether or not to act on those desires. Every human has invariably chosen to indulge in their sinful nature. There is not one among us that is blameless. That's why we need a Savior.

Sin is both inherent in our natures, a part of the Fall. It is also a choice. Sometimes it is more one or the other, but it is always wrong, as it goes against the will of our Creator.

Yes, some homosexuals do want to be cured. Not all. Do all gossips want to be cured? Do people who lust want to be cured? Do those who feel hate for their fellow man want to be cured? Does anyone ever want to be cured of their sins? Without God, no. It takes the intervention of Him in your life for you to even be able to desire the life he offers. Do all homosexuals want to be cured? No. Very few do. They are, after all, human like the rest of us.

The idea that homosexuals should just accept Jesus and suddenly change is both rediculous and unbiblical. Sanctification is a process for them as much as it is for any of us. Some of them might strive with homosexual inclinations until the day they die. The point of the conclusion of my last post was that Christian homosexuals need support from their Christian brothers and sisters as much as any of the rest of us. It isn't an easy process for them. It isn't an easy process for any of us. But we can rest in the fact that the One who created us and died for us will give us the power we need to change. And that in the end, He who began a good work in us has promised that He will bring it to completion.

[Morpheus]

A homosexual can't become "cured" as you can't become gay. You don't control hormones, so you can't become strait with any kind of therapy.

[Decadence]

[color=silver]Ok this is going to be short.
So basicly weather its moral or not comes down to weather you beleave its a choice or not? Because your saying it is a sin, which means its a choice.[/color]

[Guest Moonrise]

I have no problem but it seems that this generation doesn't seem to actually care that some people are gay/les or bi.

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Xander Harris, bloody hell, they still aren't getting it. Use Down Syndrome as your example instead of people who gossip, as Down Syndrome is something a person is born with (extra chromosome 21), so according to their logic, since they are born with it, there's nothing wrong with them and nothing should be done about it. I think it'll be clearer then.

In the same vein, Ashanti de Silva, who was born with SCID (severe combined immune deficiency) has nothing wrong with her because she was born with it. Of course, that means the scientists who managed to place stem cells in her bone marrow such that she would be given a chimeric immune system and could lead a normal life were doing something pointless (what with nothing being wrong with her). She plays a mean piano now that she doesn't have to live in a bubble, but I guess that's not important, as she was born with SCID and should have just stayed in her normal bubble.

The point Xander Harris is trying to make is that, like people with Down Syndrome and SCID (and ANYTHING else you can get prenatally), it may not be a person's fault that there is something wrong with them, but that doesn't mean that they are perfectly normal/healthy. So, just because someone says, "Oh look, there's something wrong with that guy who has Down Syndrome" doesn't mean they are insulting them.

And again, it's not wrong to be a homosexual, it's wrong to commit homosexual acts. I'm pretty sure that's Xander Harris' stance on the topic as well.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Inu500]

I don't know why your parents think there is something wrong with you being homesexual. Maybe they have a phobia of it. I hear this lot on the news, people being scared and stuff. There is nothing wrong with you being homosexual, I have some bi friends and I'm not scared of them. It doesn't matter to me if your strait or gay, As long as your one of my peoples*Points at everyone* Then you'll cool. :D I'm just saying, just don't let it bother you. Mayybe you should get your parents to go in conciling. That way they may understand.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Xander Harris] Whether or not homosexual tendancies are a choice is irrelevant. The doctrine of Origional Sin is that we are all born with tendancies toward sin. Ever since Adam fell, sin has been a part of human existence from the moment we enter this world. I was born with a tendancy toward grudge holding, selfishness, dark thoughts, hedonism, lust and pride. Others may have indeed been born with tendancies toward homosexuality.

The idea within Christian thought is that when we accept Christ's payment for our sins, the Holy Spirit begins to work in our lives to remove our sins. However, this process will never be completely finished in this world. We have daily to strive against the sinful nature.

If someone is a homosexual and a Christian, the Spirit will work within them to bring about change. Perhaps the change will never be complete in this life. Perhaps they will struggle with it for the rest of their lives. I know I will continue to struggle with the sins I was born with until the day I die. It is not insulting to me for someone to point this out. Homosexuals who become Christians need support and help with their sins as much as anyone else. The primary problem I see with many Christian's attitudes toward homosexuality is that they are viewed as enemies rather than fallen people in need of help like anyone else. Homosexuals have been needlessly villified to the point that some seem to view them as evil incarnate. And we should not point out the speck in our brother's eye while we ignore the log in our own.

O.k. Theology over. Practically, I think that whether or not gay marriage is legal has little bearing on the mission of the Church to help heal homosexuals. America is not a theocracy, and I don't think homosexuals threaten the Church nearly as much as some people seem to point out. We should be there to help those who either have fallen into (or were born with) homosexuality, instead of attacking them.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Ok, I'm tired lazy and in a bad mood, so I will address this whole post as a whole and fix it later.

Xander,I think you're a great person and you most likely mean well, but Homosexuality is not the flu, it can't be cured. It's genetically predisposed like being short or having green eyes. Therefore the all the prayer in the world can not change a homosexual into a heterosexual. Besides, would you really want to date a girl who was [i]trying[/i] not to be a lesbian? It's not good for either person involved in the relationship.Also, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would chose to be a member of an oppressed group.

I'm going to address the whole idea of being born with sin. How on earth can an infant sin? I've never liked the whole idea that we are all born as sinners and are doomed to eternal torment in hell if we don't change. I never believed that a God that loves everyone could be so hard hearted. So I like the idea that we are born sinless (like Muslims some Christians and Wiccans believe) but then as we reach the age of reason, where we know the difference between right and wrong, then we either sin or do things that will be judged against us in our next life.

We have to stop making this a religion thing or a sin thing. It's a personal thing. It's something that many people have to deal with every day. If we want to jump on the procreation band wagon and how being homosexual goes against that as well, then shouldn't we also start barring people who can't reproduce and couples who don't want kids from exchanging vows as well. And if someone *cough* BUsh *cough* wants to pass an amemndment saying that they're trying to uphold the sanctity of marriage, maybe they should pass one barring celebraties from getting married since all they seem to be doing is getting media attention for a few weeks then file fore divorce a few months later.

I'm sorry that my post is a bit off flow here and there, but I'm trying to take care of a 3 month old while typing, so yeah....[/color]

[Chibi_Chikara]

I agree with ChibiHorseWoman. And I like to think of homosexuality not as a sin, but to others, a blessing. To find love, even in the same sex, and for it to last, is indeed a blessing. What people do in their life is my buissness. If someone's homosexual, then ok, I don'y mind. I mena, I have many bi friends, about 4 girls and 2 guys. I'm around it alot because I like shonen ai (when a guy loves another guy) and my friend likes it too.
So I really don't mind homossexuality. It's just a way of life.

[LPpunkrocka]

[quote name='Miryoku']I know it's a huge and almost genaric subject but i'm curios. What do you guys think? why is it so taboo, i'm Bisexual and my parents still haven't gotten over it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it, if you love some one why does it matter. my parents keep saying its wrong but they don't answer me when i ask why. What makes my parents and the world so closedminded on the subject. sorry for starting a thread like this but i'm just confused and need help. any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. I know thare have been many threads like this but i need personal help. I'm so confused and i don't get why people can't accept me, not even my own parents can. but yeah please help. i realy need it.[/quote]
I have a number of responses to that. For one thing, your parents really should get over it. You're bi and there's nothing they can do about it except for accepting it. And also, I completely agree when you say it shouldn't matter if you love someone. Love is love, no matter who the people who love each other are. And, as for the people who can't accept you, holy jesus that pisses me off. Why the hell is America so prejudiced these days? Are so many people really like that? Geez, I'd tell them to suck it up, blow it out their mother-******* *****, and ******' deal with it. I have a close friend who is three years older than me, and he's homosexual. I can accept that. Entirely. I just wish other people could, too. It j7st seems to me these days that if you're straight, your automatically a homophobe, which is how things work in the society I live in. I think I'm the only straight girl in my town who's not against homosexuality.

[Sea Of Chaos666]

Well LPpunkrocka I geuss we have the same problem I'm the only straight girl who does not have any thing against Bi's or homo's. Most of my friends are Bis. I even know some chick who has a crush on me and I don't give a sh**!! I have a shrit that says I love lesbiens and my friend had it on for halloween and she got drit kicked in her face for it!!!! I got soooooooooooooooooo mad!!!! There is nothing wrong for being Bi or Homo!!!!!!!!!!! Every one has something unique about them. My friend was made fun of so bad by this one guy he had to get a restraning order....

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]And again, it's not wrong to be a homosexual, it's wrong to commit homosexual acts. I'm pretty sure that's Xander Harris' stance on the topic as well.[/COLOR][/SIZE'][/FONT][/quote]Yes, I agree with that. Some people just get these homosexual thoughts and are tempted to try them. From a religious point of view, if one has these thoughts, God won't punish them if they control their desires and stop themselves from commiting homosexual acts.

Some people have grown desensitized to violence from being exposed to it all the time. Some people might even have a desire to kill people and actually take pleasure from it. Maybe they are even born with the desire to kill, but that doesn't make it okay to kill people.

Some people enjoy child pornogrphy, and they specifically target children as sexual objects, and even rape them at times. But even if a person is sexually attracted to children, it doesn't make it okay to approach children in such a manner. Even if the child is willing, it's still innapropriate and unhealthy.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I honestly see homosexuality as a perversion that should be avoided. And there are many other types of sexual perversions in addition to homosexuality, such as orgies, threesome sexual acts, rape, pornography and prostitiution. All of these are harmful to the people involved and society in general. It's understandable that people can get these desires, but they should not act on them.[/COLOR]

[Decadence]

[color=silver]And just how is pornography harmful? The people in (legal) ones want to be, people who watch it want to. I truely don't see how its harmful. And about homosexuality being wrong, don't force your beleifes on otheres, and don't try to "Help" those who don't want your "Help".

I just woke up so that may be a little incomplete if theres any questions to what i mean I'll edit the post. or pm you. sorry.[/color]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f] Yes, I agree with that. Some people just get these homosexual thoughts and are tempted to try them. From a religious point of view, if one has these thoughts, God won't punish them if they control their desires and stop themselves from commiting homosexual acts.

Some people have grown desensitized to violence from being exposed to it all the time. Some people might even have a desire to kill people and actually take pleasure from it. Maybe they are even born with the desire to kill, but that doesn't make it okay to kill people.


I don't mean to offend anyone, but I honestly see homosexuality as a perversion that should be avoided. And there are many other types of sexual perversions in addition to homosexuality, such as orgies, threesome sexual acts, rape, pornography and prostitiution. All of these are harmful to the people involved and society in general. It's understandable that people can get these desires, but they should not act on them.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=darkviolet]Ok, so if I'm reading this post correctly homosexuals are just as bad as murderers, rapists and pedophiles? Wow, how much time should homosexuals get in prison then?

I hate to break it to you, but God doesn't hate homosexuals and I doubt he actually hates homosexuality either. This is also from a religious point of veiw of a former Catholic turned Wiccan. What about that Psalm? Loving and forgiving are you or lord, slow to anger and rich in kindness? I don't think that God (your God my God and Goddess, someone elses Gods) actually sits around in heaven and says: 'Hey, Billy R. just decided to come to terms with being gay, I think I'm going to smite him.'
No, God loves everyone.

Now, I've never participated in a threesome, nor do I have any desire to, but I really don't see how that would be detrimental to society as a whole. It's hardly the same thing as rape since in a three some or an orgie all participents are willing. Rape has absolutely nothing to do with sex, it has to do with power and control over another person reguardless of sexual orientation or gender. Rape bad, threesomes and orgies-good way to get a few diseases and maybe get a free kid at the end of 9 months.

I don't feel that society has become more desensitized toward homosexuality, I think it's just become more common and acceptalble to come out of the closet than it was 20 years ago. I think our society has just matured a bit more despite the existance of extremist religion groups...Gardenarian Trad included.

I don't have anything to add to this so uh, have a nice day.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f]I know what you mean, but I didn't mean that homosexuality is as bad as rape, or even close to it. For instance, a man raping a little girl is just as bad as man raping a little boy. Whether you hurt a male or female doesn't matter because in this situation the crime is rape.

God loves people who at least try to follow the right path that he has layed out for human kind. When you purposely disobey God's commands and don't even seek forgiveness for it, and even state that what you're doing is accepable, you are clearly defiling God's laws, and even rejecting him. Why should he love you then? God created Adam, and because Adam was lonely, God created a companian for him. Someone who he can share his love with. And that was the first woman, Eve. God created [I]women[/I] as the partners of men, and it angers him greatly that men would actually ignore their natural partners and turn to other men.

Honestl people, if you actually [B]read[/B] your holy books, you will see how angry it makes God when people commit homosexual acts.[/COLOR]

[Decadence]

[color=silver] You do know that kind oif arguement is what turns homosexuals away from christianity, so they're "weak" and can't control it so you persecute them. Oh that is the most logical way to help people I have ever heard. :rolleyes: And doesn't god say love thy neightboor, and forgive they neighboor? And before you condem homosexuals, take a long hard look in the mirror and tell me you break none of gods laws? do you eat shell fish? if so you are breaking one of gods rules. [url]http://godhatesshrimp.com/[/url]
and how about:
"A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be stoned to death." (Deut 22:13-21)
Or:
"If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law." (Gen. 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10).
Just thought i'd point out some thing that maybe you were breaking one of gods rules. [/color]

[Sara]

[color=#4b4b79]I'm beginning to think that any discussion on the "Sanctity of Marriage" should be limited to the holy institution's failure rates.

from russia with love,
Sara[/color]

[Drix D'Zanth]

[QUOTE=Lore][color=#4b4b79]I'm beginning to think that any discussion on the "Sanctity of Marriage" should be limited to the holy institution's failure rates.

from russia with love,
Sara[/color][/QUOTE]

That's not really fair to the marriages who [b]do[/b] suceed and live caring and loving lives.

Homosexuality is a sin. God does not hate anyone. God can be angry, and God does not live with sin, but God is merciful and has provided anyone who wants forgivness that opportunity. *shrug* Love the sinner hate the sin.

Homosexuality isn't a practice, sociologically and ethically, that I think should be recognized or otherwise accepted as a "good" thing in our nation. Do I mind that people are homosexuals? Nah, go for it. Do I wan't to pay for it? No thanks :).

[Brasil]

[quote name='Drix D'Zanth']That's not really fair to the marriages who do suceed and live caring and loving lives.[/quote]
What's to say that homosexual marriages wouldn't succeed and live caring and loving lives?

[Drix D'Zanth]

[quote name='Siren']What's to say that homosexual marriages wouldn't succeed and live caring and loving lives?[/quote]

Then get married. Let their ministers/priests/rabbis marry them, let them exchange rings. Just don't take it into a public forum and try to change the current social insitution. That's what I'm arguing.

[Eternal Snow]

I'm not a homosexual, so I would'nt know whether it'll be bad or good, but who cares? As long as those people are happy with their marriage, there should be no problem, and I'll have no objection with this stuff....... and don't worry, I won't say that it's against the bible, I'm not a Christian anyway.