Anime Anime Ratings vs. American Ratings

[EVA Unit 100]

NOTE: In this post I'll mostly be talking about ADV's ratings.

I've noticed that ADV's ratings for animes seem to work like this in equivallent to American movie ratings:

12+=PG
15+=PG-13
17+=R

With the exception of 17+ being esxactly equal to R, it seems as if ADV's rating system seems to lift the restrictions up from what they'd be if they were American made products. Never mind the fact that the choices of which shows get which ratings makes no sense: Di Gi Charat is would be more accurately be innapropriate for anyone OVER 12 rather than under, Evangelion's original release was 12+ yet the Platinum is 15+, Excel Saga's only real 17+ episodes (from what I know) are the last episode and the OAV and the dubbing studio just added in a few F-Bombs to the rest of the series to make it recieve that rating consistantly. In America, PG movies are often viewed as family movies, and PG-13 movies are recomended for, well, 13 and up (although kids still see some). I don't know why ADV feels the need to boost up the precaution. Maybe it's to get rid of the "cartoons are for kids" mentality. However, stuff that mentality is already breaking due to the Shrek and Pixar movies and the success of The Simpsons and Adult Swim. Just because a mild content show like, say, Azumanga Daioh would be deserving of a PG, which is a fairly family-friendly rating, doesn't mean the show is for little kids and people realize that. Maybe it's for marketting purposes. However, when you consider a lot of animes that would end up with a 12+/13+ rating actually are meant as family shows the ratings can be misleading. If American cartoons used ADV's rating system something like, say, Time Squad would get a 12+ and Invader ZIM would definately get a 15+, for some examples.

Just some food for thought.

[Solo Tremaine]

[COLOR=#503F86]I don't really understand what you're getting at here. The ratings given to DVDs are based on the country's own rating system, not that provided by the company itself so it's only common sense that they carry the same ratings as the movies.

In the UK for example, everything has a rating given to it by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification), regardless of the ratings the companies themselves give it. It's different to America, and each DVD is rated separately- the Excel Saga ranges from 12 to 15, and Evangelion goes from PG to 15. I don't always agree with the ratings, but I don't have to worry because I'm over 18 anyway.[/COLOR]

[Dagger]

EVA is referring to the fact that, in the US, there is no mandatory ratings system for anime. It's totally voluntary and seems to vary from company to company. Also, in most cases every DVD in a series is given the same rating.

The whole ratings thing is basically silly, although I guess the companies need to provide themselves with some kind of insurance in case people (well, parents) complain. You've provided examples from ADV, so here are some from other companies. As far as I know, they all go by different systems.

Geneon has rated uncut Cardcaptor Sakura (!!) and Last Exile 13+. A Little Snow Fairy Sugar is rated 3+, while X TV is 16+. As for Bandai titles, .hack//SIGN and the first season of Big O are 13+. Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Jin-Roh are 16+. Fruits Basket and the first season of Yu Yu Hakusho (both are from FUNimation; I didn't bother to check my Dark Tournament discs) are rated 13+. I don't own enough Viz titles to tell whether they consistently use ratings; Saikano, at least, seems to be unrated, but parental guidance is suggested. CPM has rated Nightwalker, Revolutionary Girl Utena: The Movie [i]and[/i] Descendants of Darkness 13+, which in my opinion is really a bit too low. They're not exactly a huge market force, though, so maybe they have less to worry about.

It seems like most of the major companies (Geneon, Bandai, Media Blasters, possibly FUNimation) use different age thresholds than ADV--13 and 16 instead of 12 and 17, for example.

Boosting up the ratings is actually a smart move, in my opinion. Other countries can be extremely tough on anime--for example, New Zealand has banned Puni Puni Poemy for its loli content, and the fines for importing/owning it are nothing short of absurd. America is different, of course, but I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry. It's not as though many people pay attention to the ratings, and they have no actual power over the consumer, regardless of his or her age. Although I am forced to wonder how the heck ADV will rate stuff like Gantz and Elfen Lied... :sweat:

~Dagger~

[EVA Unit 100]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1]Boosting up the ratings is actually a smart move, in my opinion. Other countries can be extremely tough on anime--for example, New Zealand has banned Puni Puni Poemy for its loli content, and the fines for importing/owning it are nothing short of absurd. America is different, of course, but I'd say it's better to be safe than sorry. It's not as though many people pay attention to the ratings, and they have no actual power over the consumer, regardless of his or her age. Although I am forced to wonder how the heck ADV will rate stuff like Gantz and Elfen Lied... :sweat:

~Dagger~[/QUOTE]

But Puni Puni Poemy actually got a rating (17+) it deserved in America. Seriously, why would something like Cardcaptor Sakura need to be rated 13+? Is it because of an obsessive crush on a teacher? Minor gay undertones? Sorry, but Rocko's Modern Life, an American show rated TV-Y, gets away with much worse. Or use Azumanga Daioh as another example. Some ecchi humor and a few "damn"s and "hell"s, but nothing worse than, say, a mild episode of Seinfeld or The Simpsons. I'd consider those shows fine for anyone about 8 and up who had the actual interest to watch them and a parent who would keep things under control. An example of how hard people can be on anime would be the Cyborg 009 controversy. It was controversial that the show ran uncut on Cartoon Network originally, which forced edits in repeats and a move to 1:30 AM to return to being uncut. But seriously, was there really that much stuff to edit? There was violence, but not a lot of blood, and even CN's extremely editted version of Antz got away with the same amount of bad language in a TV-G cut. Being one of the tamest action animes out there, just being able to air it uncut made it controversial. Seriously, does something like Pokemon or Astro Boy even NEED any editting to be considered "kid-friendly"? Anime should be put on the same scale as American entertainment.

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Do the anime rating systems even matter, though? Do they stop anyone from buying a particular anime? If there's no standard, doesn't that mean the store owner can overlook the rating system and sell to a minor? :confused:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[KarmaOfChaos]

[color=deeppink][size=1]I don't think the rating matters much unless it's outright hentai, I've bought anime in stores that was 17 or 16+ and they never even asked to see my ID. Then again, I look a lot older than my age, so I can see why they wouldn't bother. It might be different if an 11 year old tried to buy something like Puni Puni Poemi.

That would be a good experiment. * recruits her younger brother *

Anyway, the ratings that REALLY bother me are those that my video rental store puts on anime. Apparently, all anime automatically has a "Youth Restricted Viewing" label put on it, from Sailor Moon to Heavy Metal (shudder). Occasionally my mom will read the rating just to make sure I'm not renting some horrible, mind twisting sex-filled film with no moral value, see the YRV rating, and freak out.

It then takes 30 minutes to convince her it's not soft-core porn. -.-

-Karma[/size][/color]

[EVA Unit 100]

[quote name='KarmaOfChaos']Anyway, the ratings that REALLY bother me are those that my video rental store puts on anime. Apparently, all anime automatically has a "Youth Restricted Viewing" label put on it, from Sailor Moon to Heavy Metal (shudder). Occasionally my mom will read the rating just to make sure I'm not renting some horrible, mind twisting sex-filled film with no moral value, see the YRV rating, and freak out.[/quote]

It can't be as bad as my local comic book store. They have the anime shelf set up like an "adult" section (with the beaded curtains and all) and you have to be 18 or over to purchase any of it. And yet the dealer seems to have no problem with selling an issue of a very violent American comic like, for example, Spawn or Johnny the Homicidal Maniac to kids younger than me. It's really annoying. Anyone can purchase a Gundam action figure there, but suddenly a Gundam video is pornography. I swear that in my sneaking I saw My Neighbor Totoro there, which is as G-rated as you can get while still being in the realm of quality! I think I might have to report the dealer.

[ckime]

[quote name='EVA Unit 100']Seriously, why would something like Cardcaptor Sakura need to be rated 13+? Is it because of an obsessive crush on a teacher? Minor gay undertones? [/quote]

Actually, the reason we rated it 13 UP was for two reasons. First, we had the Cardcaptors DVD at 7UP and, as you suggested, the minor undertones were an issue that would typically lean towards an older audience. Also, believe it or not, we used to get returns on VHS-Sub tapes where the defect was listed as "subtitled" because the buyer hadn't been paying attention and wanted the dubbed version. Thus, to protect the franchise and to make sure people were paying attention, we "aged up" the rating.

Well, I hope that answers your question and was worthy of my first post here... :)

Happy new year!
Chad Kime
Marketing Manager
Geneon Entertainment

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]O_o Whoa, are you for real?! Hey, if you really are part of the biz, are you planning on sticking around on these forums? Insider info would be quite nice, heh. ^^;

And Geneon of all companies! My favorite! w00t.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Morpheus]

I got the only hard-a** at my local gamestop when I tried to buy the Excel Saga v1. The Excel saga is very retarded, but as said before, only 1 or 2 episodes are bad, not even on the one I wanted to buy. That reminds me, must buy v1...

[ckime]

[QUOTE=AzureWolf][FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]O_o Whoa, are you for real?! Hey, if you really are part of the biz, are you planning on sticking around on these forums? Insider info would be quite nice, heh. ^^;

And Geneon of all companies! My favorite! w00t.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Yes, I am a real company rep. What will probably prove it is the fact that I'll only be able to haunt the boards once a month or so because of my work load... :confused:

I don't know how much REAL inside info I can give, but I'll certainly answer questions...

Naturally, they should probably be in a new thread if they aren't ratings related... ;)

Chad.

[EVA Unit 100]

[QUOTE=ckime]Actually, the reason we rated it 13 UP was for two reasons. First, we had the Cardcaptors DVD at 7UP and, as you suggested, the minor undertones were an issue that would typically lean towards an older audience. Also, believe it or not, we used to get returns on VHS-Sub tapes where the defect was listed as "subtitled" because the buyer hadn't been paying attention and wanted the dubbed version. Thus, to protect the franchise and to make sure people were paying attention, we "aged up" the rating.

Well, I hope that answers your question and was worthy of my first post here... :)

Happy new year!
Chad Kime
Marketing Manager
Geneon Entertainment[/QUOTE]

Cool! A Geneon employee at our website!

I understand you wanted to sepparate the uncut release from the editted release. Still, the show is extremely tame even with the uncut material and, as I said, a lot of American shows with lower ratings get away with much worse. To use my example in my previous post, Rocko's Modern Life has included such older-gearing content such as a restaurant called "The Chokey Chicken", a board game that consists of spanking monkeys, at least 3 trips to Hell, mutterings of "You dumbass!", plotlines about sexual fettishes, and even grabbing a monkey's balls! It's a very good and funny show, but seems a bit much for a TV-Y rating. Why are anime ratings so raised up from American ratings?

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]This is a very interesting thread, and I think I can ad onto it. I have both season one and two of Sailor Moon in my possesion *digs out cases* which were released by ADV. They both have a 15+ rating. Why? Because Usagi [spoiler]uses the luna pen to get into a night club and is almost served alcohal? because she got drunk once?[/spoiler] or because of Zoisite and Kunzite's relationship? Maybe because with the exception of Moon, the transformation for the senshi has the lines of their boobs and butts? Yeah, lines...whew who! Show me more!

I also have some of the DVDs (all of teh 3rd season) that Pioneer released and the rating was only 13+.

And then there's my Fushigi Yugi series plus the two OAVs and the rating on that was only 13+. And Fushigi Yugi has a lot more violence and nudity than Sailor Moon could ever hope to have. Can someone explain that to me?

Also, why do some stores like FYE for example have the anime near the adult videos and DVDs? This just makes no sense.[/color]

[foolycooly6363]

I go into blockbuster looking for a good anime and i can't get a single one. I'm just barely under 18 and the won't let me rent one that has a Parents Strongly Caution" sticker on it. I could get the ghost in the shell movie because it already has a PG-13 rating on it. Anything else under Anime that doesn't have a rating on it the slap one of those damn stickers on.They even had one on a DBZ dvd i find that pretty darn sad. I'm just saying give me a break i mean only yu-gi-oh and pokemon didn't have stickers on them and i definatly don't want to rent those. I don't have enough money to buy DVDs and they won't let a 17 year old rent them. Oh yeah the clerk had to be a ***** and say " aren't you to old for cartoons" that's a disgrace. I'm going to hollywood video next time!

wesuls

[color=navy][size=1]I merged your thread with this topic, as video rental stores have already been covered here. Next time, please scan the first page of the forum for similar threads before creating a new one. Thanks. ^_^

~Dagger~[/size][/color]

[Katamari666]

What about YRV (youth restricted veiwing) its strange because americans tend to veiw violence in anime as violence directed towards children , but would you rate gundam for children ? or CCS for children. ie Metropolis has a rating of 18+ in blockbuster Ridiculous neh?

[ckime]

Making ratings for the US is actually quite hard. First, everyone has different standards for themselves and for their families. I know people who won't let thier kids watch the Power Rangers because it is too violent, while I let my 5 year old daughter watch Akira with me... :cool:

Add in the amazing range of sensitivities between the coasts and the bible belt and often the ratings have to be set to the most sensitive people possible...

Double Standard #1 for kids (in general)
Violence OK. Sexuality (straight or gay) Not OK.

Addendum to Double Standard #1
Unless the secuality for juvenile potty humor, then it might be OK again...

Fun & Frustrating Facts:
-Japanese companies are paranoid about lawsuits - even if it is only their American licensor being sued, not them. If it is their title, they don't want controversy.

-Sometimes the marketing guys bump up the rating to make something mild seem cooler or more outrageous. (Not that I'd ever be caught doing this... :devil: )

-Some people can see the same show and thing two different things. There was a particular episode of Cardcaptor Sakura where Sakura goes and hangs out with a nice old guy who turns out to be her grandfather (or great grandfather? it's been a while), and we said awww how sweet! Then the TV stations rejected that one because it might encourage kids to hang out with suspicious old men who offer them treats and invite them to play dress up... :wigout:

-Retailers sometimes can't tell A Little Snow Fairy Sugar from La Blue Girl because it all looks like Speed Racer to them... Even though the buyer might know the difference and their employees might now the difference, their lawyer tells them to stick it by the adult product just in case...

-Standards vary a LOT across the country. A district attorney near Dallas, TX convinced a judge and jury that the entire comic book FORMAT is a format for kids. Thus the retailer who had adults-only comics in an adults-only section and was selling it only to people who had 18+ ID's was guilty of selling porn to kids... This does not help the paranoid from Fun & Frustrating Fact #1.

-Cartoons are still viewed as "for kids." The Appleseed movie is going to release in 6 cities this Friday ([url]www.AppleseedTheMovie.com[/url]), but with a 'R' rating for violence. In my opinion, there are PG-13 live-action films with more violence, but if this is animated and the violence is part of a serious story (i.e. people actually die), then they rate the movie stronger.

Anyway, gotta get back to work.

Chad Kime
Marketing Manager
Geneon Entertainment

[ckime]

[QUOTE=foolycooly6363]I go into blockbuster looking for a good anime and i can't get a single one. I'm just barely under 18 and the won't let me rent one that has a Parents Strongly Caution" sticker on it. I could get the ghost in the shell movie because it already has a PG-13 rating on it. Anything else under Anime that doesn't have a rating on it the slap one of those damn stickers on.They even had one on a DBZ dvd i find that pretty darn sad. I'm just saying give me a break i mean only yu-gi-oh and pokemon didn't have stickers on them and i definatly don't want to rent those. I don't have enough money to buy DVDs and they won't let a 17 year old rent them. Oh yeah the clerk had to be a ***** and say " aren't you to old for cartoons" that's a disgrace. I'm going to hollywood video next time!

wesuls

[/QUOTE]

Personally I'm a big Netflix fan. With a credit card and an internet connection I get more selection and a lot less hassles. Timing is sometimes an issue, but not a bad trade-off for me...

Chad.

[color=navy][size=1]Telling people about Netflix = Good. ^_~
Double-posting = Bad, as it's against the rules here.

Next time, please edit any additional comments into your latest post (assuming someone hasn't replied yet). Thanks! ^_^

~Dagger~[/size][/color]

[AzureWolf]

[FONT=book antiqua][SIZE=2][COLOR=blue]Oh c'mon now, that's not a double standard. Do you really view sex and violence as one in the same? Also, there are degrees, like a kick in the nads vs. dismemberment. Or, in the case of sex, innuendos and akward situations vs. actual sexing.

I'm not saying that it's an easy job to tell how to rate things. I mean, some of your examples clearly illustrate that (and some are quite funny), but I don't see having different standards for violence and sex as hypocritical.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Dagger]

[QUOTE=ckime]-Cartoons are still viewed as "for kids." The Appleseed movie is going to release in 6 cities this Friday ([url]www.AppleseedTheMovie.com[/url]), but with a 'R' rating for violence. In my opinion, there are PG-13 live-action films with more violence, but if this is animated and the violence is part of a serious story (i.e. people actually die), then they rate the movie stronger.

Anyway, gotta get back to work.

Chad Kime
Marketing Manager
Geneon Entertainment[/QUOTE]

Wow, seriously? I suppose I can understand something like Akira or Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust getting slapped with an R, but from what I've heard, the violence in Appleseed is more akin to the kind of stuff one might see in Ghost in the Shell (which is PG-13, I think).

It was outrageous enough that the Cowboy Bebop movie received an R. And the Appleseed trailers I've watched most definitely did not give me the impression that the film was R material. Of course, as I haven't seen the actual movie, this isn't something I can really pass judgment on. But I'm definitely surprised that violence was the reason they cited, considering how gory live-action PG-13 films can get.

Looks like DC isn't one of those six locations. Meh, I guess I'll just buy/rent the DVD. Unless Appleseed does spectacularly well and spreads to other cities. :p

Your other stories/facts were quite interesting (I loved the one about CCS, haha). I hadn't realized Japanese companies were so concerned about indirect controversy. Makes me wonder how big of a role that might have played in the whole Demon Lord Dante fiasco (which, though not wholly Geneon's fault, was still immensely frustrating).

~Dagger~

[natetron46]

I think that PG-13 films are gorry only as far as they show violence that is not against humans. LOTR for example was PG-13 because the violence and killing happened against orcs mainly. Other movies that show nudity or violence against humans are often slapped with the R rating. Those are live action, animation is a totally different thing, no one is human. This would ahve to be one very violent movie to get an R, but I was under the impression that it wasnt that bad. Maybe the publishing company just doesnt want to take any risks.

[Katamari666]

how different is the american rating system different from canadas again?

[Dagger]

[quote name='natetron46']Those are live action, animation is a totally different thing, no one is human. This would ahve to be one very violent movie to get an R, but I was under the impression that it wasnt that bad. Maybe the publishing company just doesnt want to take any risks.[/quote]

I actually think the opposite is true. As an example, Cowboy Bebop: The Movie is rated R; were it a big-budget live-action blockbuster, I'm positive it would have been rated PG-13. From what I remember, the violence isn't terribly bloody (it consists mostly of explosions, hand-to-hand combat and the like), and only one scene has noticeable sexual innuendo. It seems to me that the MPAA tends to rate animated films more harshly, probably because animation is perceived as being a medium aimed primarily at pre-teens and children.

Off the top of my head, I can think of several anime movies that have been rated R. Some of them deserved it and some of them probably didn't, but the idea that anime films are rated more leniently simply due to being animated doesn't exactly jive with history.

Also, publishing companies don't set ratings; the MPAA does. I'm positive that Geneon would have preferred for Appleseed to be rated PG-13, heh.

@Katamari: Are you referring to live-action movies, anime or what? It might help if you explained the Canadian ratings system before asking people to contrast it with the American system.

~Dagger~

[natetron46]

[QUOTE=Dagger IX1] It seems to me that the MPAA tends to rate animated films more harshly, probably because animation is perceived as being a medium aimed primarily at pre-teens and children.

Also, publishing companies don't set ratings; the MPAA does. I'm positive that Geneon would have preferred for Appleseed to be rated PG-13, heh.[/QUOTE]
The first point is a really good one, I hadnt thought of that actually. If it was perceived as a medium prefered by kids, why would they rate it R then? Who could see it? It just doesnt make sense to me. If you think its for kids, why rate it so kids cant see it, that just means that the theatres airing is are losing money. Oh well, you could be right, thats a valid point.

As far as publishing companies, I meant that perhaps the publishing company thought it would be in their best interests to not challange that rating and to accept an R.... I beleive that they can lobby for a lower rating, hell they could have even cut some stuff out for a lower rating (which would have ruined the movie, but got a lower rating and made it more accessible).

[Dagger]

[quote name='natetron46']As far as publishing companies, I meant that perhaps the publishing company thought it would be in their best interests to not challange that rating and to accept an R.... I beleive that they can lobby for a lower rating, hell they could have even cut some stuff out for a lower rating (which would have ruined the movie, but got a lower rating and made it more accessible).[/quote]

Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry for misinterpreting what you said before. ^_^;;

The thing is, Appleseed sort of has to target a niche audience (anime/video game fans), and the anime fans in particular would be less than pleased if it were cut. To be honest, I imagine that there'd be a pretty big uproar, even if the DVD release remained uncut. So editing the movie wouldn't exactly be the best option, as you implied.

And I suspect that (successfully) lobbying for a lower rating requires some degree of leverage, and I'm not sure that Geneon has that kind of influence regarding the MPAA and such. Ah well.

~Dagger~

[SteelAngle Somi]

what i always think is funny is when an anime that you can planly see that it is for kids to the ages of 12 to 13 so and so will have ratings like 17+ take Steel Angel Karumi it is vary kiddy cartoonish though it dose show nakedness but not to a massive amount and i guess thats the really the only thing they had on it

to what some one said earlier about have the anime shelfs in the 18 or older back room kind of thing what my video store and book store dose is put thim in plastic rap wether it cam like that or not it has the little "don't let your kid but this" sticker thingy on it its more fo the manga so kidds arn't flipping through the battle royale books