44% Say Restrict Muslim's Rights?

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004A6F][URL=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1103399108768_2/?hub=World]http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1103399108768_2/?hub=World[/URL]

I can't believe this! 44 percent of Americans think that muslim American's rights should be restricted. That's disgusting, and it's all thanks to the propanganda the news spreads about muslims; only showing those radical extremists who commit horrible acts not in the name of Islam, but in spite of Islam. Meanwhile you never hear about radical Rabbis who tell soldiers in Israel that it's perfectly acceptable to kill the innocent palestinian civilians. You never hear about the torture the Iraqis face from the American soldiers, or about the girls being raped by them. So you're "liberating" us huh? Oppresion and occupation is liberating us, and neither is Americanising us.

We have our own culture and religion and maybe if you kept you're noses out of other country's business' you wouldn't have all these terrorist attacks coming at you. America never payed attention to what was happening in Afganistan until the Taliban prevented them from constructing an oil pipeline. It's always about the oil. The American government doesn't do squat about other countries oppressing their people simply because they don't have oil.

When the war on Iraq started, Bush accused Iraq of being in defiance of 14 UN resolutions. Meanwhile, Israel is in defiance of over 60. But still, Arabs and muslims are terrorists right? America freed Kuwait form Iraq cause they wanted they're own state, but apparently Israel has perfect rights over Palestine. I wonder if it's the fact that Kuwait has so much oil? I honestly don't see the logic or fairness with how you deal with Arab countries. Well, why don't you keep your grubby hands away from other country's resources Amercia? They're not yours for the taking. Stop labelling Arabs and Muslims as terrorists, cause you're the ones who started this whole conflict. Honestly, just GET OUT![/COLOR]

[wrist cutter]

[quote name='Chabichou']Honestly, just GET OUT![/quote]

As much as I'd like to, everyone would criticize America for pulling out if we did that. They'd sneer at how we start a conflict and then just leave without resolving it. It's a lose-lose situation for us because people are always going find fault in anything we do.

Though you're not telling us the whole story. I can't believe 44% of Americans would say they want to restrict Muslims' rights. Did your friend tell you this or something? Was it the result of surveying the anti-Muslim cult or something?

[DBZgirl88]

Sorry, forgot the link to the article. I put it up though. All the articles on all the news websites are exactly the same in content.

[Juke Box Hero]

First off I would like to clarify one thing: I am against restricting the rights of any people group based on religion or ethnicity.

We started this conflict..? No. Perpetuated it? Yes.

In 1938, [i]American[/i] companies located and set up extraction operations for oil in Saudi Arabia, while the Saudis were cavorting around the desert on camels. Honestly, did your vastly impressive and wonderful culture ever do anything for itself?

Yes.

The leader your wonderful people allowed to take power gassed you, you take advantage of Western ingenuity daily, have a culture that in its very design does not give women sufferage. Your mighty oil resource would never have been discovered if it wasn't for European and American scientists, explorers, and merchants.

Women are elevated to the status of human because of Americans. Your power, water, AC, and other systems are modernized because of our generosity. Don't give me this ******** about American imperialism when MY ******* tax dollars are going into your plumbing. You are a bunch of sycophantic, complaining losers that has never accomplished anything positive without the intelligence and ability of others.

Israeli's are our friends. They do not shoot up our embassies, blow up ur trade centers, snipe our brave soldiers, or buy arms from ex-Soviets. Sure they spy on us, and buy our arms at rediculously cheap prices.. but we spy on them, and the arms in their hands is beneficial to us.

We are fighting the war in Iraq (and I am not sure whether it is correct or not at this point in my life) for three reasons:

1. We must keep oil in the hands of pro-American nations. Period. That's common sense and good governance.Our entire system of life revolves around oil and its by products. It was absolutely correct to protect Iraq's only valuable resource from unfriendly hands.

2. Because of the strategic importance of the Middle East, it is imperative for us to remain at least cordially treated there. Iraq has for years taken our face and **** upon it. There was NO reason to tolerate that treatment from a nation like Iraq. Thankfully, we finally have a President with some [i]cajones[/i].

3. There is documented proof that the government and people of Iraq are sympathetic to the enemies of the United States. We don't like that, thus you got to taste a little bit of American lead. Iraqis can blame themselves over that one. Very stupid to be in open defiance of the most powerful nation to ever grace God's Earth.

I am an amateur statistician because of my love for Wall St. The survey you quoted does not give accurate/acceptable documentation of its demographics, nor does it give time periods, collectively summarized data, or cross references to other surveys. To the business mind, it is invalid. Give us the link to the full report, and we'll talk about it again.

Merry Christmas, and God Bless America.

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']I can't believe this! 44 percent of Americans think that muslim American's rights should be restricted.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Get a grip. It?s just a poll, and I?d bet money it?s inaccurate at that. I?ve seen this statistic floated around on many message board in the last few days, and I haven?t found a single person who actually agrees with that 44%. Polls are often inaccurate, take for example the recent exit polls for the American presidential election.

It?s not a gospel fact. Such a thing wont happen. Calm down.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] That's disgusting, and it's all thanks to the propanganda the news spreads about muslims; only showing those radical extremists who commit horrible acts not in the name of Islam, but in spite of Islam![/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]We do. At least on FOX and CNN, plus CSPAN, I?ve often seen statements from moderate Muslims decrying the acts of barbarity committed in the Middle East in the name of religion.

It?s true that there?s a lot of anti-Muslim bias in the United States. However, I really don?t see it very much in the mainstream press; it?s a huge stretch to say that there?s a significant amount of propaganda on the news over here. Americans aren?t stupid. We realize there?s a difference between your average Muslim and Islamic extremists, no matter what that crazy poll says.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] Meanwhile you never hear about radical Rabbis who tell soldiers in Israel that it's perfectly acceptable to kill the innocent palestinian civilians. You never hear about the torture the Iraqis face from the American soldiers, or about the girls being raped by them. So you're "liberating" us huh? Oppresion and occupation is liberating us, and neither is Americanising us.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]You?re right on the first point, I?ve never heard anything like that. I feel that is largely due to the difference in number between Islamic and Jewish extremists (Not to mention the difference in activity).

Torture from Americans? Isolated incidents, sure. The American military aggressively polices it?s own, and does it?s utmost to prevent situations like Abu Ghraib from occurring. Such events are not only disgusting to the American public at large, but are fully investigated and the perpetrators dealt with accordingly.

As for rape? Show me a [strike]unbiased[/strike] news source that I can trust, and maybe we can talk.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] We have our own culture and religion and maybe if you kept you're noses out of other country's business' you wouldn't have all these terrorist attacks coming at you.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]It?s statements like that which make me want to shut off my computer and bang my head against the wall.

First off, you tell me what America has done to deserve:

[quote]
1975

Jan. 24, New York City: bomb set off in historic Fraunces Tavern killed 4 and injured more than 50 people. Puerto Rican nationalist group (FALN) claimed responsibility, and police tied 13 other bombings to the group.

1979

Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. Fourteen were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days on the day of President Reagan's inauguration.

1982?1991

Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.

1983

April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 Marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.

Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.

1984

Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.

Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. Two Americans killed.

1985

April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.

June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.

Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.

Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.

1986

April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.

1988

Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.

1993

Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.

Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing five U.S. military servicemen.

1996

June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. Thirteen Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.

1998

Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. Four men connected with al-Qaeda two of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.

2000

Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. Seventeen sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.

2001

Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed two commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; two more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

2002

June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.

2003

May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers killed 34, including eight Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.

2004

May 29?31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.

June 11?19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Dec. 6, Jiddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate killing 5 before being subdued by Saudi security who killed five of the militants.
[/quote]

America has made mistakes, sure. We supported the Shah of Iran, we supported Saddam, and we financed Bin Laden when he fought against to Soviets.

We?ve also donated more money in aid to other countries than any other nation. We bankroll a good deal of the UN, in an attempt to foster world peace and the US participated in the UN effort to free Kuwait from Saddam after he invaded.

Consider all of this, the good and the bad, and try and tell me America deserves this.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] America never payed attention to what was happening in Afganistan until the Taliban prevented them from constructing an oil pipeline.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]First you tell America to mind it?s own business, then you attack it for ignoring Afganistan?s problems.

We attacked Afganistan because it provided shelter to terrorists who attacked us. Pure and simple.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] It's always about the oil. The American government doesn't do squat about other countries oppressing their people simply because they don't have oil.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]If that were true, America wouldn?t give aid to countries without oil. But we do. If that were true, we?d be Saudi lapdogs. We?re not.

America?s worldwide interests involve oil. They are not solely about oil.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] When the war on Iraq started, Bush accused Iraq of being in defiance of 14 UN resolutions. Meanwhile, Israel is in defiance of over 60. But still, Arabs and muslims are terrorists right?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Iraq was not accused of being in violation. Iraq was in violation.

Here?s a thought. Why don?t you list all resolutions in violation and we can see just how biased those 60 are against Israel, and how common-sense driven those directed at Iraq were.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] I honestly don't see the logic or fairness with how you deal with Arab countries. Well, why don't you keep your grubby hands away from other country's resources Amercia? They're not yours for the taking. Stop labelling Arabs and Muslims as terrorists, cause you're the ones who started this whole conflict. Honestly, just GET OUT![/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]This statement speaks for itself.

All that?s missing is that wonderful, ?Great Satan? line.[/color]

[Xander Harris]

Quite frankly, I don't see what the big deal is about racial profiling. If the enemy you are looking for belongs mainly to one ethnic group, then it makes sense to give a little extra attention to people of that ethnic group. I'm talking about legal investigative stuff, like at airports. I'm certainly not advocating Muslims get locked up without a lawyer, or get beat to death or whatever. But it seems to me that profiling makes basic, rational sense, so long as it does not become persecution. If the cops were looking for people in the KKK, I wouldn't think it was wrong that they investigate me over a black man. It's the same thing with terrorism.

[Zeta]

Look at Iraq. Sure there are trouble now, but when things get straightened out it will be much better. They will have a ruler that the people want, not someone who declared himself President for life and gases his own people.

The reason why there are such views about Muslims because they do bring it on themselves. How are they going to accomplish anything with their actions? It is the action of a few that ruin it for the rest. If you want to blame anyone, blame the suicide bombers and extremists, not Americans.

We "stick our noses" in other peoples business to help them. Hell, things could get so out of hand that another World War could break out, we don't know. Look at all the good we did in Germany and Japan. If people could just see that they could be just as well off and have a good country in which to live in.

Our "grubby" hands are on their resources because we need them just as much as you do. Throughout history there has been a group of countries that are big enough to lend aid to those countries in need, without those who is there to help anyone? We don't police the world with our army, we lend aid when it is needed. Without that many, many things would be much more out of hand. We would get out of other countries if they can actually take care of themselves. Unfortunately (in my mind at least) many of them are not to that point. The fact that they bomb innocent people is just one occurance that hinders my ability to think they can.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004A6F]First of all I never said America deserved terrorist attacks, but I know we all know what led to them. Second of all, the poll is a nationwide poll, so I think it should be taken seriously at least to some extent. Although, the American government probably won't start just restricting Muslim's rights, it's quite surprising what nearly half of Americans think due to what they see on the media.

If people do recognise the difference between normal muslims and Islamic extremists, then why would the want to restrict the rights of average muslims living in America? The media obviously isn't showing Islam in a positive light.

[QUOTE=Boba Fett]Iraq was not accused of being in violation. Iraq was in violation.

Here?s a thought. Why don?t you list all resolutions in violation and we can see just how biased those 60 are against Israel, and how common-sense driven those directed at Iraq were.[/QUOTE] Oh sure, here's a nice list for you:

Resolution 106: "...?condemns? Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...?condemns? Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...?recommends? Israel suspend its ?no-man?s zone? in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...?urges? Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations? by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...?censures? Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...?urges? Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...?condemns? Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...?calls? on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...?deeply deplores? Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...?declares invalid? Israel?s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...?condemns? Israeli raids on Jordan as ?flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...?deplores? Israel?s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...?condemns? Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...?condemns? Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...?censures? Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...?condemns? Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...?condemns? Israel?s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...?demands? withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "....?condemns? Israeli?s attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...?demands? immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...?deplores? Israel?s changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...?demands? that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...?condemns? Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...?deplores? Israel?s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...?condemns? Israel?s repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...?condemns? Israel for violating Lebanon?s sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...?condemns? Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...?calls? on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...?calls? on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon?
Resolution 444: "...?deplores? Israel?s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...?determines? that Israeli settlements are a ?serious obstruction? to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...?calls? on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...?calls? on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...?deplores? Israel?s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel?s settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...?strongly deplores? Israel?s military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...?calls? on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...?strongly deplores? Israel?s failure to observe the council?s order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...?expresses deep concern? at Israel?s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...?reiterates? that Israel?s claims to Jerusalem are ?null and void?
Resolution 478: "...?censures (Israel) in the strongest terms? for its claim to Jerusalem in its ?Basic Law?
Resolution 484: "...?declares it imperative? that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...?strongly condemns? Israel for its attack on Iraq?s nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...?decides? that Israel?s annexation of Syria?s Golan Heights is ?null and void? and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...?calls? on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...?calls? on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...?demands? that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...?demands? that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...?censures? Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...?demands? that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...?condemns? Israel?s attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...?condemns? Israel ?vigorously? for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
Resolution 587: "...?takes note? of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...?strongly deplores? the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...?strongly deplores? Israel?s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
Resolution 607: "...?calls? on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 608: "...?deeply regrets? that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...?deeply regrets? Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
Resolution 641: "...?deplores? Israel?s continuing deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 672: "...?condemns? Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
Resolution 673: "...?deplores? Israel?s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
Resolution 681: "...?deplores? Israel?s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 694: "...?deplores? Israel?s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
Resolution 726: "...?strongly condemns? Israel?s deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 799: "...?strongly condemns? Israel?s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

[QUOTE=Boba Fett]Torture from Americans? Isolated incidents, sure. The American military aggressively polices it?s own, and does it?s utmost to prevent situations like Abu Ghraib from occurring. Such events are not only disgusting to the American public at large, but are fully investigated and the perpetrators dealt with accordingly.

As for rape? Show me a unbiased news source that I can trust, and maybe we can talk.[/QUOTE]Well, actually, it isn't Isolated incidents. They constantly raid homes at night and arrest innocent people and take them to live in horrible conditions in their prisons. I'm not just talking about those nasty photos, which by the way included photos of the soldiers raping women, though those are too graphic to be shown on T.V. The soldiers haven't been punished properly though. Just dismissed form their positions. That's not enough for what they did.

As for the rape, take the word of some the female prisoners. It's not as if the soldiers let people see this out in the open.[quote name='Boba Fett']You?re right on the first point, I?ve never heard anything like that. I feel that is largely due to the difference in number between Islamic and Jewish extremists (Not to mention the difference in activity).[/quote]Maybe it's because the media chooses to ignore it. That seems like a better explanation to me. Believe me, these "Jewish extremists" aren't too rare. Otherwise, palestinians wouldn't be dying in such hight numbers now would they. (Oh no, I 'm bringing Palestine/Israel conflict up again, lets just stick to muslims).

[quote name='Zeta']We "stick our noses" in other peoples business to help them. Hell, things could get so out of hand that another World War could break out, we don't know. Look at all the good we did in Germany and Japan. If people could just see that they could be just as well off and have a good country in which to live in. [/quote]How about when America poses sanctions on other countries? How about when America tries to prevent other countries like Korea from developing nuclear weopons when they themselves have nuclear weapons? How about when America thinks it's above the U.N rules and wants to use landmines in Korea even though they are banned by international law? How about when America uses depleted Uranium, when it's also banned, and has led many Iraqi babies to be born deformed? And what good has America done in Japan? How can wiping out two cities each in a matter of seconds be regarded as good? Japanese people are still suffering today form radiation posioning. None of that is "helping" these countries.

Although America has done many good things, like aiding third world countries or even saving the people of a country form cruel leaders, as they do sometimes in Arab countries, why do they always end up killing innocent muslims in the process? Why should the general Arab and Muslim population suffer because of what their corrupt governments do?

[quote name='Zeta']Our "grubby" hands are on their resources because we need them just as much as you do.[/quote]Haha, but they don't belong to America, they aren't on American land, so it doesn't have the right to start wars to take them. I'm pretty sure that America, having the best economy and being the richest nation on earth, doesn't need these resources as much as these countries do.[/COLOR]

[Juke Box Hero]

How have we helped Japan?

You must be blind.

We gave them the opportunity to become mighty. An opportunity they took. Through our help and their ingenuity they are Asia's premier economic and political power. Second only to the United States for economic prowess, Japan is truly a mighty nation.

Before WW2, Japanese railroad boarding stations were made of concrete. Now they are made of marble. From bycicles to sportscars, huts to high rises. All because they took it upon themselves to better their own lives. And we Americans gave them that chance.

As much as you don't want to admit it, you only have the right to something if you can stop others from taking it. Right of conquest is seemingly barbaric, but nothing is more true.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][QUOTE=Raid3r]How have we helped Japan?

You must be blind.

We gave them the opportunity to become mighty. An opportunity they took. Through our help and their ingenuity they are Asia's premier economic and political power. Second only to the United States for economic prowess, Japan is truly a mighty nation.

Before WW2, Japanese railroad boarding stations were made of concrete. Now they are made of marble. From bycicles to sportscars, huts to high rises. All because they took it upon themselves to better their own lives. And we Americans gave them that chance.[/QUOTE]Sure, but only after two of their cities were nuked. I must congratulate America on it's mercy an compassion.

Actually I didn't really want this to turn to and Pro/Con America debate. I'm just so angry this is what their people think of Muslims now. The fact that they would even think of restricting muslims in such ways is really quite sad. And don't say muslims brought it upon themselves cause they didn't. Those extremists are to blame, whose anger is triggered by Americans. It's not fair to the general muslim population to restict their rights. Look at France. Their so called seperation of state and religion has cost muslims the most. It's not sinful for a cristian not to wear a necklace of a cross, but it is for a muslim girl not to wear hijaab. But check this out, the cristians can wear a cross if it's the small one. Heh, talk about fairness. I'm glad I'm not subjected to that kind of treatment in Canada, but I wouldn't want it to happen to any fellow muslims.

This restriction of muslim rights might include forcing them to strip so they can "check them for weapons". This also includes checking the girls. Oh what they would give to hurt a muslim girl's honor! They've already done so a few years back after september 11th to a muslim girl travelling with her parents.

Heaven's Cloud, if you haven't read the poll title, it says "[B]restrict muslim's rights[/B]", that's different than simply investigating suspicious circumstances. They want all muslims to have to register their names so the governments can track thier movements. Where have we seen this befor? Hmmm... let me think...The Haulocaust?[/COLOR]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']First of all I never said America deserved terrorist attacks, but I know we all know what led to them.[/COLOR][/quote]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F]

We have our own culture and religion and maybe if you kept you're noses out of other country's business' you wouldn't have all these terrorist attacks coming at you. [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=green]Sure sounds like you thought America deserved these terrorist attacks.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']Second of all, the poll is a nationwide poll, so I think it should be taken seriously at least to some extent. Although, the American government probably won't start just restricting Muslim's rights, it's quite surprising what nearly half of Americans think due to what they see on the media.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Nationwide polls too can be downright wrong. I wouldn?t put any stock in one of anything, be it a poll, scientific study or anything else of that ilk. Until you have several polls leaning that way and some corroborating events, it?s pretty silly to even give junk like this a second chance.

You think it?s suprising what American?s think because of what they see in the media. I?d ask you to think the same way about Muslims in the Middle East. Everyone is affected by the media, the real question is [b]how many of us fall for every sensational story designed to provoke a reaction and keep us through the ad break[/b].[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']If people do recognise the difference between normal muslims and Islamic extremists, then why would the want to restrict the rights of average muslims living in America? The media obviously isn't showing Islam in a positive light.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]?There?s no news like bad news.?

The twenty-four hour new networks need stories to fill space for every hour of the day. They gravitate towards sensational stories that provoke reactions from their viewers, and those are not calm speeches decrying extremism. It?s much more interesting to see car bombs blow up and terrorists getting gunned down in the streets.

Don?t put too much weight on stuff like this. It?s going to happen, and it?s not going to make a difference with regards to American civil liberties.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']Well, actually, it isn't Isolated incidents. They constantly raid homes at night and arrest innocent people and take them to live in horrible conditions in their prisons. I'm not just talking about those nasty photos, which by the way included photos of the soldiers raping women, though those are too graphic to be shown on T.V. The soldiers haven't been punished properly though. Just dismissed form their positions. That's not enough for what they did.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]The US doesn?t decide to raid the home of random Iraqis for kicks. That?s silly. If there?s reasonable suspicion that those in the house are involved with the terrorist attacks against US troops and/or the Iraqi government, they?ll go raid the house and arrest anyone involved with said activities.

You?re talking like the US is setting up concentration camps in Iraq because we have nothing better to do. Stop watching Al Jazeera and get a grip. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

That?s incorrect. The soldiers involved in the incidents you have mentioned were dishonorably discharged and given jail terms.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']As for the rape, take the word of some the female prisoners. It's not as if the soldiers let people see this out in the open.Maybe it's because the media chooses to ignore it. That seems like a better explanation to me. [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]You think the New York Times would pass on a chance to expose a story like that? Yeah right?

The only allegations of rape I can recall were brought up in the US, and the photos used in that claim were later attributed to a porn site.

Lets see some real evidence, not just hearsay. What you?re doing is spewing libel.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']How about when America poses sanctions on other countries?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Every other country on earth imposes sanctions. Why, when America does the same, is it such a big deal?[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] How about when America tries to prevent other countries like Korea from developing nuclear weopons when they themselves have nuclear weapons?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Let me make sure if I understand you. You?d trust North Korea with nukes?[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] How about when America thinks it's above the U.N rules and wants to use landmines in Korea even though they are banned by international law?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Rest assured, I?m sure that if the South Koreans didn?t want us there, that they?d tell us to get out.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']? How about when America uses depleted Uranium, when it's also banned, and has led many Iraqi babies to be born deformed? [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Depleted uranium rounds I agree with you on. Despite their effectiveness, they shouldn?t be used on the battlefield.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F'] And what good has America done in Japan? How can wiping out two cities each in a matter of seconds be regarded as good? [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Since when has anyone said that dropping atomic bombs on Japan was good? It was necessary to end a World War and prevent further US casualties. At the time, the radioactive effects of atomic weaponry were not known.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']Although America has done many good things, like aiding third world countries or even saving the people of a country form cruel leaders, as they do sometimes in Arab countries, why do they always end up killing innocent muslims in the process?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]You try conducting a war without civilian casualties. If you?re worried about innocents being caught in the crossfire, you should be talking to terrorists. They?re in the habit of killing civilians on purpose, so I hear.[/color]

[color=green]As for that list of UN Resolutions, is there a site on which the sponsors of those resolutions and their full texts can be viewed?[/color]

[EVA Unit 100]

Oy, just more stupidity! It's only a while until we all become like the kids in Invader ZIM and go to "Skool" and act happy all the time and never notice the alien replacing our intestines with hall passes while the few intelligent folk are viewed as jerks who nobody listens to.

It's not like restricting all Muslims and eventually converting them will lead to Osama Bin Laden turning himself in or ending the war in the Middle East. Geez, I thought that people once viewed giving more people equal rights were positive steps. It seems that way of thinking has reversed.

[Harry]

You're the reason why people would agree with restricting Muslim's rights, Chabichou. Everything I've read from you on this board gives me the impression that:
A) You support any act against Israel or Israelies that hurts them
B) You partially support (or fully) Osama Bin Laden (and imposters) agendas
C) You jump for joy whenever the US "loses" (basically soldier dies/civilians die)

Really how can anyone care about your opinion or other muslims rights when so many sound like you?

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote name='Article']The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.[/quote]
I knew it was the damn Christians >_>

[quote name='Article']Cornell student researchers questioned 715 people in the nationwide telephone poll conducted this fall.[/quote]
Oh, somebody save us. 715 people? Out of... Uum. How many people does America have? 250 million? And if you read the article, it's not like they want to put you all in jail. People are being cautious because they're scared.

[quote name='Raid3r']have a culture that in its very design does not give women sufferage.[/quote]
Suffrage, dude. Sufferage is a bad thing.

[quote name='Raid3r']Because of the strategic importance of the Middle East, it is imperative for us to remain at least cordially treated there.[/quote]
Everyone loves America over there ;)

[quote=Raid3r]There is documented proof that the government and people of Iraq are sympathetic to the enemies of the United States. We don't like that, thus you got to taste a little bit of American lead. Iraqis can blame themselves over that one. Very stupid to be in open defiance of the most powerful nation to ever grace God's Earth.
[/quote]
There is patriotism, and then there is arrogance. And it is this kind of attitude that has gotten America where it is, with the reputation that it has. Oh, how I wish for a big winking smiley with a thumbs up.

[quote name='Boba']Here?s a thought. Why don?t you list all resolutions in violation and we can see just how biased those 60 are against Israel, and how common-sense driven those directed at Iraq were.[/quote]
I doubt it is as simple as that Boba. I dare say Israel is in violation of many things. There is no black and white.

Anyway, this figure is probably way off the actual mark. But, I do think it is reasonable. If there was a person who had been identified as a possible threat, those methods would be acceptable. Islam has been identified as a possible threat. It makes sense. Sadly.[/size]

[Heaven's Cloud]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]Heaven's Cloud, if you haven't read the poll title, it says "[B]restrict muslim's rights[/B']", that's different than simply investigating suspicious circumstances. They want all muslims to have to register their names so the governments can track thier movements. Where have we seen this befor? Hmmm... let me think...The Haulocaust?[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=indigo]I don't know why anyone here cares what your opinions are, after all you seem to be attempting to include me in a debate which I never entered. This means one of the following: a) you don't read people's posts carefully, b) you can't read, or c) a mixture of both.

However, since you brought up my name, I will give you my thoughts on the poll you are reffering to. Forty-four percent of the seven-hundred and fifteen people that took that pole show racist tendancies (although, since one of the questions was dealt with racial profiling at airports (of course they should have racial profiling at airports) it is probably slightly fewer people than that). Of those 314.6 people (how the hell did that happen?) half of them are probably racist. However, I have a hard time trusting a poll that gathered information from only 715 people. That is ridiculous.[/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=Darkred][SIZE=1][QUOTE=Baron Samedi][size=1]
I knew it was the damn Christians >_>
[/size][/QUOTE]
Ouch, baby. Very ouch. :laugh:
[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F]
It's always about the oil. The American government doesn't do squat about other countries oppressing their people simply because they don't have oil.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Hmm... yes. That does make sense.

[Quote=Raid3r]...Because of the strategic importance of the Middle East, it is imperative for us to remain at least cordially treated there.

...Iraqis can blame themselves over that one. Very stupid to be in open defiance of the most powerful nation to ever grace God's Earth.

...We gave them the opportunity to become mighty. An opportunity they took. Through our help and their ingenuity they are Asia's premier economic and political power.

...All because they took it upon themselves to better their own lives.[/quote]
I suppose these had to be quoted at least twice.
I agree that nations should remain in good terms with each other but if you put it that way, love, and with the ongoing war there and everything, I really don't see why Iraqis should act pleasantly towards the US forces.

About the Japanese, I think they got back on track really because of how well they managed their affairs. They were doing so well before the war that, just 90 years after opening up to the world, they became a such a force to be reckoned with. They really had nothing to go on after the war. A lot of countries were pretty mad at them. So they built their nation by themselves, as the last statement quoted above implies. Crediting the opportunities they made for themselves to another country is really insulting, love.




Yes, well, anyways, back to the topic. I think 44% is a bit exaggerated. Yet restriction of rights because of religious affiliation is, in itself, a violation of rights.

Love and Peace!
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[DeathBug]

I didn't notice anyone emphasizing this, and my apologies if someone did:

Who actually read the article?

[quote name='http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1103399108768_2/?hub=World']Cornell student researchers questioned 715 people in the nationwide telephone poll conducted this fall. The margin of error was 3.6 percentage points. [/quote]

One poll of 715 people? Performed by college students? And [i]that's[/i] the basis for the bitching?

And meanwhile, everyone ignores the incidences of horrible discrimination against Muslims in Europe, particularly France. How disturbing.

[Xander Harris]

Lol, HC. I think she read your name in my sig and got it mixed up with my screen name...

Anyhow, on topic, I really don't care how you started the thread in order to color people's opinions. You provided a link to an article, and from my reading of the article, the people in the survey are not advocating beatings of muslims, or concentration camps, or anything of that sort. Mainly it seems to be talking about profiling and other minor civil liberties infringements.

And you use a 'slippery slope' arguement when you talk about registration. I had to register with the government for military service when I turned 18. Is that part of a secret conspiracy to start a new draft in Bush's second term, or part of a plot to kill all 18 year olds? Registration was used prior to the holocaust, yes. So what? That has little to no bearing on this discussion. Why don't you polk around and see if you can find any legitimate surveys that show fifty percent of Americans in favor of genocide against Muslims. I'm sure you won't find any.

And what precisely are you trying to prove with this inane thread, anyhow? I'm not even sure what I'm arguing against, other than that 715 people is not an adequate enough sampling of Americans to rule that we're all genocidal racists.

[Zeta]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F]

How about when America poses sanctions on other countries? How about when America tries to prevent other countries like Korea from developing nuclear weopons when they themselves have nuclear weapons? How about when America thinks it's above the U.N rules and wants to use landmines in Korea even though they are banned by international law? How about when America uses depleted Uranium, when it's also banned, and has led many Iraqi babies to be born deformed? And what good has America done in Japan? How can wiping out two cities each in a matter of seconds be regarded as good? Japanese people are still suffering today form radiation posioning. None of that is "helping" these countries.

Although America has done many good things, like aiding third world countries or even saving the people of a country form cruel leaders, as they do sometimes in Arab countries, why do they always end up killing innocent muslims in the process? Why should the general Arab and Muslim population suffer because of what their corrupt governments do?

Haha, but they don't belong to America, they aren't on American land, so it doesn't have the right to start wars to take them. I'm pretty sure that America, having the best economy and being the richest nation on earth, doesn't need these resources as much as these countries do.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Oh palease! Look at Japan now. There was a time when we let them into our factories and took pictures so that they could do the same back home. We eventually stopped allowing them in because they were just as good as us, if not better. The atomic bomb attacks were bad yes. But look at the good in the country now. Look how thriving it is. Think before you say something.

Sure they don't belong to America, but we need them just as much if not more. Look at the size of America, you cut off our oil, we are basically a fish out of water. We need oil just as much as any other country. More than other countries because of our size. I thought for sure that was common sense.

Again, the bad Muslims paint a bad picture for the whole. Many people only hear about the bad things so they make judgements based on that. Wrong I know. Same thing with Goths, a few psychos considered Goth shoot up a school and everyone else thinks others are the same. Again blame the extremists for engraving the picture into our minds.

I believe we went into Somalia did we not? And as far as I am aware there is not a lot of oil at all, if any. Mogadishu. See Black Hawk Down or read the book. See Vietnam. Korea. The Balkans (can't remember exactly the name of that whole time, something in Yugoslavia or something). We do go into other places where there is civil unrest, with or without oil. You see and hear what you want to. If you don't know about other actions it is your own ignorance.

[Sword Breaker]

Needless to say, the poll results are no doubt faulty. Not even I think racisim is that bad in the US... least not in the open.

It is true, however, that almost every country the US "Liberates" had an extreme amount of oil, and, as it would seem, Bush simply wanted to aquire the oil without doing somthing easy like say... buying it? I have my own suspicions as to the lengths Bush is willing to go for oil.

Frankly, I think the only other reason would be because Bush wanted to make sure everyone remebered him as "The One who Finished Daddys Job," so to to speak, and that he went to all extents simply to make sure the event was televised around the world. What I mean by this is that this war had had more media coverage then almost any other war, if in fact you can call it a war, and that Bush thinks this is simply a way to appeal to the more brutish voters (Don't mean 2 offend) who tihnk it's worth going to war over oil.

Anyway, my view is probably slanted, since, first of all, I don't live in the US, nor do I really pay attention to what's goin' on in the war. All I's know is that the war has scarred the sacred human heritage located in Mesopotamia, and that alone is enough to disgust me.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][QUOTE=Harry]You're the reason why people would agree with restricting Muslim's rights, Chabichou. Everything I've read from you on this board gives me the impression that:
A) You support any act against Israel or Israelies that hurts them
B) You partially support (or fully) Osama Bin Laden (and imposters) agendas
C) You jump for joy whenever the US "loses" (basically soldier dies/civilians die)

Really how can anyone care about your opinion or other muslims rights when so many sound like you?[/QUOTE]Israel is an illegal nation that oppresses my people. None of those soldiers are innocent, and quite frankly I am happy when they die. When one of their soldiers decides to empty his weapon into a small child, I know these soldiers and the Israeli government has no sense of morals. Serves them right for killing palestinian civilians in cold blood. Killing of Israeli civilians, I've already mention dozens of times I don't support.

I don't support Osama Bin Laden. What the hell? How did you come to that conclusion? The Taliban was definetly a very extremist and cruel regime. However, America chooses to specifically target Arab and Mulim nations far more than others. Meanwhile, one of their Allies, Israel, is clearly hurting and oppressing innocent palestinians and America chooses to ignore that. God, do you even know how much money America gives to Israel every year, let alone its military? While there are "bad guys" on both sides of the palestine Israel conflict, just because of a select few suicide bombers on the palestinian side, America decides to label our entire race as terrorists, and continuously supports Israel, and ILLEGAL AND RACIST state.

Since when did I "jump for joy" when Americans die? Honestly, what kind of monsters do you take us for? Maybe Osama bin Laden thinks that way, but most muslims don't think so. I wonder why some even move to the U.S in the first place? Obviously this idea that muslims hate American comes from the propaganda the media spreads about muslims. I don't hate Americans in general. But I do recognise the government as anti-Islamic in some sense.

[quote name='Heaven's Cloud']I don't know why anyone here cares what your opinions are, after all you seem to be attempting to include me in a debate which I never entered. This means one of the following: a) you don't read people's posts carefully, b) you can't read, or c) a mixture of both.[/quote]I think it's I cause I can't read. Sorry, I mixed you up with Xander Harris. Silly me.

[quote name='Heaven's Cloud']I don't know why anyone here cares what your opinions are...[/quote]And sometimes I wonder why I should care either. Goodnight.[/COLOR]

[Zeta]

The idea that Muslims hate America is the fact that they attack us any chance they get, more than any other religious group as far as I am aware. How many Cathloics run into a crowded market strapped with a bomb? Muslims are painted in a bad light because they are the ones who do that. Blame the "select few", not our media. If they didn't do that, we would have no reason to report anything of the sort.

How is Israel an illegal nation? The land never belonged to Palestinians, it was just name Palestine. It belonged to the Hebrews who founded the Kingdom of Israel long before Palestinians came. Palestinians aren't even from Palestine, they are from Asia Minor. (The Volume Library 1, page 986)

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=darkviolet]Wee! I'm lovin' this!

As far as I know Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, the name basically means peace. It's just the minority of extremists-like in any other religion- that make the majority of normal every day practicioners look bad.

As for the rapes, I know that's bad. But Rape is used as a form of control and it's those incidents that make all American soldiers look bad. My husband and the majority of his friends are in the first Cav division out of Ft. Hood Texas and I know for a fact that Lincoln isn't out there dragging some poor woman out of her home at night and violating her.

You want to talk about rape though, and I'm not one to go around pointing fingers, but isn't it your people who consider rape to be the woman's fault and institute honor killings? I know it's not your religion but a gross negligence of interpreting the Koran, but you want to talk barbaric look at blaming women for being raped as well.

The whole Isreal/Palestine fiasco I think has a very easy solution, just give the Palestinians their own state like the Isralies have. It's sad that just because of religious differences innocent people have to be killed.

With that said I'm going to withdraw from this thread hoping that I made some sense.[/color]

[Delta]

[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1][quote name='ChibiHorsewoman][color=darkviolet']As far as I know Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, the name basically means peace. It's just the minority of extremists-like in any other religion- that make the majority of normal every day practicioners look bad.[/color][/quote]
Exactly. Just like the Christianism and its suicidal fanatics. Now, excuse me... *runs away*

Love and Peace!
[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Sword Breaker]

Zeta, the only reason that Muslims tend to be the suicide bombers more often is probably caused because people like Osama Bin Laden have no law to stop them from recruiting an army of easily impressionable young kids, who just happen to be Muslims, and breeds anti-Americanisim into their lives. He probably uses the Islamic religion as another tool in brainwashing, but it doesn't mean that your Muslim nieghbor could show up one day at your doorstep, bomb in hand, and blow yuo up simply because Allah told them to! No, it's all the work of megelomaniacs who go unopposed in MIddle Eastern nations, and take advantage of young people.

Oh, and yes, I wouldn't consider Isreal an illegal nation, more of a soveriegn (SP?) nation, granted to the Jewish people by the UN, and, thus, was in fact stolen from the Arabian people, because they did not agree with it being created. I can very much imagin why the Arabian nations are pissed, hell, if somone came into myt yard, put a fence around my forest, and said "This is mine, cause the owls need it!" I'd say,"Hey, know what? I don't give a **** bout' the owls, you stole from me, and I'm gonna take it back!" Now, don't get me wrong, I belive that the Jews deserved to recive a referation from their grief during WWII, but they should have worked somthing out with Arabian people first.