44% Say Restrict Muslim's Rights?

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Zeta']The idea that Muslims hate America is the fact that they attack us any chance they get, more than any other religious group as far as I am aware. How many Cathloics run into a crowded market strapped with a bomb? Muslims are painted in a bad light because they are the ones who do that. Blame the "select few", not our media. If they didn't do that, we would have no reason to report anything of the sort.[/quote]We heard about the suicide bombers enough times Zeta. I fail to understand why you continuously bring it up. If you haven't noticed already, there haven't been any suicide bombings for quite a while now.

And the media uses these "select few" to make Islam in general look bad. Why don't you all watch movies and find one thats shows Arabs in a positive light? A task I think you'll find quite difficult.

[quote name='ChibiHorsewoman']You want to talk about rape though, and I'm not one to go around pointing fingers, but isn't it your people who consider rape to be the woman's fault and institute honor killings? I know it's not your religion but a gross negligence of interpreting the Koran, but you want to talk barbaric look at blaming women for being raped as well.[/quote]Oh God, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say the media show Islam in a negative light. Finding some stupid things some idiot thinks and using it to degrade the image of Islam.[/COLOR]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE=Sword Breaker]Zeta, the only reason that Muslims tend to be the suicide bombers more often is probably caused because people like Osama Bin Laden have no law to stop them from recruiting an army of easily impressionable young kids, who just happen to be Muslims, and breeds anti-Americanisim into their lives. He probably uses the Islamic religion as another tool in brainwashing, but it doesn't mean that your Muslim nieghbor could show up one day at your doorstep, bomb in hand, and blow yuo up simply because Allah told them to! No, it's all the work of megelomaniacs who go unopposed in MIddle Eastern nations, and take advantage of young people.

Oh, and yes, I wouldn't consider Isreal an illegal nation, more of a soveriegn (SP?) nation, granted to the Jewish people by the UN, and, thus, was in fact stolen from the Arabian people, because they did not agree with it being created. I can very much imagin why the Arabian nations are pissed, hell, if somone came into myt yard, put a fence around my forest, and said "This is mine, cause the owls need it!" I'd say,"Hey, know what? I don't give a **** bout' the owls, you stole from me, and I'm gonna take it back!" Now, don't get me wrong, I belive that the Jews deserved to recive a referation from their grief during WWII, but they should have worked somthing out with Arabian people first.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. It isn't the entire religion, it is the select few. And I repeat it is the select few that lead us to believe they are all bad. I know the next door neighbor won't, but there is the possibility it could happen. It is the select few that bring our views about. I know it isn't the religion as a whole, just the extremists, which I have all ready said. Yes it will be quite different because the extremists have a LARGE impact on what we see and believe. As Boba said, bad news is good news. And the fact that the extremists do many bad things only brings those things to light.

I bring up suicide bombers Chanichou because you see the need to bring up your beliefs that Israel has taken land from Palestinians when they haven't. They came from Aisa Minor, much farther to the north. They are fighting over the wrong land if they should be fighting at all. They have no right to the land based upon history so don't say they do. Their land is in Aisa Minor, more around modern day Turkey. The land belongs to the Israeli's, deal with it, there is nothing that you can do.

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']Israel is an illegal nation that oppresses my people. None of those soldiers are innocent, and quite frankly I am happy when they die. When one of their soldiers decides to empty his weapon into a small child, I know these soldiers and the Israeli government has no sense of morals. Serves them right for killing palestinian civilians in cold blood. Killing of Israeli civilians, I've already mention dozens of times I don't support.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]You and I can both reel off the names of those on each side (and the middle) of this debate.

Too bad this thread isn?t about Israel, or Palestine.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']America chooses to specifically target Arab and Mulim nations far more than others.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Last time I checked it was Middle Eastern Arab nations who harbored the terrorists and the anti-American sentiment that was responsible for 9/11. I recall Palestinains, Iranians and Saudis dancing in the streets. As has been said before, I know these are not a majority of Muslims in the region. That?s exactly why the US is targeting only the small extremist minority of Muslims who will stop at nothing to destroy America.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']God, do you even know how much money America gives to Israel every year, let alone its military? While there are "bad guys" on both sides of the palestine Israel conflict, just because of a select few suicide bombers on the palestinian side, America decides to label our entire race as terrorists, and continuously supports Israel, and ILLEGAL AND RACIST state.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]I know that it?s a significant sum, yes. America supports Israel because it?s not corrupt, it?s stable and it?s citizens respect America. Turkey is the only Muslim nation that I can think of that falls into the same category. The other Middle-Eastern Muslim nations, if they fit those criteria, would probably become allies of the United States as well.

It has nothing to do with Religion.[/color]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]Since when did I "jump for joy" when Americans die? Honestly, what kind of monsters do you take us for? Maybe Osama bin Laden thinks that way, but most muslims don't think so. I wonder why some even move to the U.S in the first place? Obviously this idea that muslims hate American comes from the propaganda the media spreads about muslims. I don't hate Americans in general. But I do recognise the government as anti-Islamic in some sense.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[color=green]You?re one to talk about propaganda. As I recall, it was you who warned [b]against[/b] discounting what Al Jazeera has to say.[/color]

[Harry]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f'] Honestly, what kind of monsters do you take us for[/COLOR][/quote]


[quote]and quite frankly I am happy when they die.[/quote]
That kind. I'm not too big of a fan of Israel myself, but it's really hard for me to shed a tear for the oppressed muslims when I hear this. I would ignore that too, but I hear it so often that I can't really help but believe this is a widely shared opinion.

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f'] We heard about the suicide bombers enough times Zeta. I fail to understand why you continuously bring it up. If you haven't noticed already, there haven't been any suicide bombings for quite a while now. [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=darkviolet] Well, unless you count the insurgents who suicide bombed a funeral. But that's just a bad example of a religious group. They shouldn't be held up as an example of the religion as a whole. There are pleanty of good Muslims, you're Muslim and you're not a bad person. It's just the select stupid few who ruin it for everyone.[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f'] Oh God, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say the media show Islam in a negative light. Finding some stupid things some idiot thinks and using it to degrade the image of Islam. [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=darkviolet]Yes, but as I also pointed out it's done by people who missinterpret the Koran. Just like all those suicide bombers and the Taliban regeme (SP?) That's why more people should learn to look beyond what they see in the media and educate themselves. I know that not all Muslims hold women accountable for rape. Hell, if it's any consolation there are still [i][b]American WOMEN[/b][/i] who think that if a woman is raped she asked for it.

I was never using it to degrade Islam. I think everyone should educate themselves about what they don't understand. Maybe if they read a bit more they'd learn that Muslim women are actually in charge of finacial descisions inside the home.[/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1]I'd just like to add one tiny little thing in here: Chabichou is extreme and exaggerates her opinions, and I'm afraid that people on the Israeli's side are doing the same.

I do not believe that Israeli soldiers would kill a child.

I do not believe Israeli's are blameless.

I do not believe Palestinians are justified in blowing up random civilians.

I do believe Israeli attacks are better organised and more effective than Palestinian attacks: Israeli's don't purposely target civilians.

I do believe Palestinians have a right to be angry.

I do believe the land belongs to Israel.

I do believe Israel and Palestine should cease hositlities and merge.

I don't believe this will happen.

I don't believe this thread is heading in it's original direction [b]but[/b] it is progressing as discussion should.

And, finally, Deathbug, people [HC and myself] had made reference to the 715 people statistic.[/size]

[Break]

[QUOTE=Raid3r]How have we helped Japan?

You must be blind.

We gave them the opportunity to become mighty.[/QUOTE]

[color=darkorchid]After you completely ****** them up, yes.

I just think America should stop being the ******* patrolman of the world, it is annoying a lot of people. Why does it feel the need to do this? Because it has the world's resources, the world's finances, and the world's population under its control.[/color]

[Sword Breaker]

Well, I've got to agree with break there, America really needs to butt out, or at least keep it quiet dammmit. We don't want Americans bitching every time they go to "war" with a country, when hundreds of other soldiers (Canadian, British and otherwise) do this type of operation all across the world, but you don't hear about them, now do you? Oh, and Japan was mighty before you guys ****** it up, all you guys did was take away their culture, poison their people, and rape their lands.

[desertranger]

[quote="Baron Samedi']

Chabichou is extreme and exaggerates her opinions, and I'm afraid that people on the Israeli's side are doing the same.[/quote]

That is entirely possible, however she is no different from you or I except that she lives in a war torn country (I think she's the Palestinian girl who is currently freezing ehre butt off, I didn't know it got that cold there) and who like most people would like to live in Peace instead of pieces. I have not seen such a statistic she talks about. In talking with my friends I have found that most people don't really know what a Muslim is *they thinks it's a physical country" and don't really care.

This is what I do see. Of my Jewish friends, most of them would like to see the total destruction of Palestine, not one of them can give me a valid reason of any kind why this should be done though. Most of them are intolerant, bigots. I'm Jewish and I think that's BS to the max. When these same people ask me what I would do my usual response to turn large portions of Isreal a Sea of Glass. But then, that's my answer for most of the mid-east.

I also have a few Muslim friends, Sandeesh and Cha among them. When I first met Cha is attitude was kill the Jews. He couldn't give me a valid reason either. We invited him for passover along with Harry who is Catholic. Cha has changed his mind, he now wants to see peace in Isreal and would like an opportunity to go home (Iran). Sandeesh has always said the whole thing is BS and that's why he moved here.

The only place both sides agreed on was more (or less, depending) Isreal-estate. (sic).

I've read the Quoran and the Torah along with the Christain bible and others.
The Quoran and the Torah speak of peace, not pieces. Both preach tolerance toward our neighbors not bigotry and hate. BTW: I didn't find a lot of that in the bible. The people who interpret these words, our non-secular guides to life and faith (Immams and Rabbis), on the other hand say let's kill each other. Let's kill because they are different and not much other reason behind it. Again, except Isreal-estate.

What I see in Chabichou is a (poetic license)a cute adorable young woman surrounded by her cats (another stuopid cat lady like Rin
:laugh: :laugh: ) who doesn't understand what's going on around her anymore than we do. I believe all she really want's is an end to the war a chance to live in peace, which most of you do BTW.

So I have a couple of questions for Chabichou.

Am I right about this? Is that what you want, an end to the war?

I would also like to know if your cats sleep on top of you at night? :laugh: :laugh: :

Rins do.

[Zeta]

[QUOTE=Break][color=darkorchid]After you completely ****** them up, yes.

I just think America should stop being the ******* patrolman of the world, it is annoying a lot of people. Why does it feel the need to do this? Because it has the world's resources, the world's finances, and the world's population under its control.[/color][/QUOTE]


[i]We[/i] didn't **** them up. They did it themselves. They brought a war to the Pacific and brought trouble to their economy. They are the ones who had their economy pump out tanks and rifles to attack China, the US, and British in the Pacific. That is what happens in war time. Economies crumble, which is exactly what happened. Again, imagine if we hadn't of used the bomb. That would be a country left wtihout millions of people because they were going to fight to the death. We destroyed TWO cities people, two cities. That minimized the casualties on both sides overall. We didn't screw them up. Palease.

If we aren't the patrolman who will be? The Romans were the patrolman in their times. THe British were the patrolman during their reign. Why should we be any different? We feel the need to help better civilization across the world. And when people decide to attack us for it is their own fault that something may happen to them. We don't like to see children starving on the street due to a civil war between the people and some rich idiots who want control of everything. We try to help others people. We try to bring order to the world so a small conflict doesn't explode and turn into World War III.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Harry']That kind. I'm not too big of a fan of Israel myself, but it's really hard for me to shed a tear for the oppressed muslims when I hear this. I would ignore that too, but I hear it so often that I can't really help but believe this is a widely shared opinion.[/quote]Notice that you left the first part of my sentence out. I said [B]"none of these soldiers are innocent,[/B] and quite frankly I'm happy when they die". You also ignore the fact that they kill civilians on purpose. Why do all you keep denying that? THEY KILL CIVILIANS ON PUROPOSE AND [B]THAT'S NO LIE[/B]! Okay? Why are you all so blind to that fact? I don't care what they say to defend themseleves. They're lying.

Here's a link:[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.com/cur_sit/child-killed.html[/url]
and another:[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.com/cur_sit/child-shield.html[/url]
And you choose to support them.

[quote name='Zeta']I bring up suicide bombers Chabichou because you see the need to bring up your beliefs that Israel has taken land from Palestinians when they haven't. They came from Aisa Minor, much farther to the north. They are fighting over the wrong land if they should be fighting at all. They have no right to the land based upon history so don't say they do. Their land is in Aisa Minor, more around modern day Turkey. The land belongs to the Israeli's, deal with it, there is nothing that you can do.[/quote]When there are people already there and are kicked out of there homes, I think that qualifies as stealing the land. As for history, ancient Arab tribes lived there thousands of years before. This land has been conquored many times by many different people and the last people to live in it were Arabs before Israel was created. The British had a mandate on the land because they planned to give it to the Jews. You don't have a good enough argument saying that it was right for them to destroy the home of my grandfather. He was there first, not them.

[QUOTE=Boba Fett][color=green]I know that it?s a significant sum, yes. America supports Israel because it?s not corrupt, it?s stable and it?s citizens respect America. Turkey is the only Muslim nation that I can think of that falls into the same category. The other Middle-Eastern Muslim nations, if they fit those criteria, would probably become allies of the United States as well.

It has nothing to do with Religion.[/color][/QUOTE]Funny how in Turkey, women aren't allowed to wear hijab to work. Muslim nation my ***. That's oppresion right there, but America doesn't do anything about that. America only supports countries it gets along with, even if they are clearly oppressing their people. Israel being a great example. A very "stable" and "uncorrupt" nation it is indeed.

I'd like to point out to desertranger that I don't live in Palestine, though I wish I could go back to my homeland. I live in Canada. It's very cold here indeed.

[QUOTE=desertranger]So I have a couple of questions for Chabichou.

Am I right about this? Is that what you want, an end to the war?

I would also like to know if your cats sleep on top of you at night?[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'd like an end to the war. But I also want my country back. And I want the Israeli soldiers to stop hurting the general Palestinian population, because wether any of you choose to believe it or not, they hurt palestinians on purpose.

I don't have cats. My mom's scared of them. But I still adore cats. When I get married and get a place of own though......[/COLOR]

[Brasil]

[quote name='Chabichou']Funny how in Turkey, women aren't allowed to wear hijab to work. Muslim nation my ***.[/quote]
At least the women are allowed to work in the first place.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Siren']At least the women are allowed to work in the first place.[/quote]So apperently they have it easy there, is that what you're saying? Last time I checked, women were only not allowed to work under the Taliban Regime. Other muslim nations do not restrict women this way. There you have it folks, more Islamic stereotypes![/COLOR]

[Zeta]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]Notice that you left the first part of my sentence out. I said [B]"none of these soldiers are innocent,[/B] and quite frankly I'm happy when they die". You also ignore the fact that they kill civilians on purpose. Why do all you keep denying that? THEY KILL CIVILIANS ON PUROPOSE AND [B]THAT'S NO LIE[/B]! Okay? Why are you all so blind to that fact? I don't care what they say to defend themseleves. They're lying.

Here's a link:[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.com/cur_sit/child-killed.html[/url]
and another:[url]http://www.ifamericansknew.com/cur_sit/child-shield.html[/url]
And you choose to support them.

When there are people already there and are kicked out of there homes, I think that qualifies as stealing the land. As for history, ancient Arab tribes lived there thousands of years before. This land has been conquored many times by many different people and the last people to live in it were Arabs before Israel was created. The British had a mandate on the land because they planned to give it to the Jews. You don't have a good enough argument saying that it was right for them to destroy the home of my grandfather. He was there first, not them.

.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]


Palestinians kill Israeli civilians on purpose too.
[i]VI.iv.2. From Heroöpolis [modern Abu-Keyschid, near modern Suez City], situated in that recess of the Arabian Gulf which is on the side of the Nile, to Babylon, towards Petra of the Nabataei, are 5600 stadia. The whole tract lies in the direction of the summer solstice (i.e., east and west), and passes through the adjacent Arabian tribes, namely Nabataei, Chaulotaei, and Agraei [in the modern An-Nafud desert, along on the borders of present Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia]. Above these people is Arabia Felix, stretching out 12,000 stadia towards the south to the Atlantic Sea. [/i]

[url]http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/arabia1.html[/url]

Look at a map and see where the areas around Jordan, Syria and Saudi Arabia is. Doesn't look like the land of Israel to me. As I said, the land didn't belong to the Palestinians. The Palestinians are fighting for their so called land, not the Arabs. Sure the Palestinians may be Arabs, but it is not the Arabs fighting for their land, only the Palestinians. Once the whole of the Arab popularion (the Arabs who resided in modern day Israel, not the Philistines (The Volume Library 1) or know today as the Palestinians will their actions be just. The land never belonged to Palestinians themselves.

I never said it was right to destroy your grandfathers home. Please point me to my saying that. What I said is that the land never belong to the Palestinians. Even if they were the last to "own" the land, it was taken from the Jews who unified the area into a country. And when you unify the land into a country, it becomes recognized as your land. The Arabs didn't have a problem with this then? Why do they now. Greed is the answer in my mind.

Of course we ally ourselves with a country that is stable and can cause us economic growth. Why would we ally ourselves with a country that would hurt us? We don't ignore other countries plights, please point me to one of these instances. We try to get peace between the Palestinians and Israeli's, we tried to bring an end to a Civil War in Somalia that was devasting the population, we helped bring Germany and Japan back from a devastating war and succeeded(sp?). And right now we are trying to get things right in Iraq, and I will admit it is not going too well at the moment. But hey, nothing in this life comes easy.


edit: As Kane would say, Intersting, most interesting. (always wanted to say that ^_^; )

The Volume Library 1, page 989

"About 1800 B.C., during a time of faime, their (the Hebrews also called Jews and Israelites) partriach Abraham led them away from the city of Ur in Sumer northwestard to the land of Canaan...But then a new and more powerful enemy appeared, the Philistines, a non-Semitic people who had been driven out of Asia Minor and settled in southwest Palestine. (in fact the name Palestine derives from them)"

Very interesting. I can make a copy of the page if anyone so desires.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Zeta']Palestinians kill Israeli civilians on purpose too.[/quote]And that completely gives the Israeli soldiers the right to empty their weapons into small innocent children? America funds their military and doesn't do squat about what they do to those children. I don't see why the Israeli government isn't being targeted when they commit these horrible acts, and is still actually thought of as a "stable" and "just" state.

But hey, all Palestinians are terrorists right? We all go into market places with bombs strapped to our bodies and blow ourselves up. Arafat is a terrorist, but Sharon is not. Palestinians are terrorists, but Israeli troops are not. Palestinians deserve to die, but Israelis don't. Israelis need homes, but Palestinians don't. When Arafat actually began encouraging suicide bombings he was lableled as a terrorist. But when Sharon ordered the massacres in Sabra and Shatila, he gets away with it. How about treating the palestinian side equally for once?[/COLOR]

[Zeta]

No it doesn't give them the right to empty their weapons into children. But does that give the Palestinians the right to suicide innocents? Neither is right.

You can chose to believe all that you said in your second post if you so desire. I never said such a thing, nor will I ever. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Israeli's are innocent (which I said in your other topic). Why should the Israeli's treat the Palestinians any different than the Palestinian treat them? *shrug* I don't see the logic. It is a never ending circle on placing the blame on someone else, so I won't go there.

But what I am saying is that the Palestinians are wrong in their claim of Israeli land. The land of Canaan was LATER named after the Philistines, that came from Aisa Minor. The Israeli's had to band together and form the Kingdom of Israel to fend off the Philistines. The banded together to protect their land from the Philistines (later became known as Palestinians) so in all technicality, the Palestinians took land from the Israeli's long before moder times. With that in mind it is exactly what you said the Palestinians are claiming to do, the Israeli's are fighting to protect their land.

[Harry]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']So apperently they have it easy there, is that what you're saying? Last time I checked, women were only not allowed to work under the Taliban Regime. Other muslim nations do not restrict women this way. There you have it folks, more Islamic stereotypes![/COLOR][/quote]
The Taliban regime was the ideal muslim country. It followed everything by the book. Saudi Arabia only wishes it could be so faithful to Allah.

[Retribution]

[QUOTE=Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F]Although America has done many good things, like aiding third world countries or even saving the people of a country form cruel leaders, as they do sometimes in Arab countries, why do they always end up killing innocent muslims in the process? Why should the general Arab and Muslim population suffer because of what their corrupt governments do?

Haha, but they don't belong to America, they aren't on American land, so it doesn't have the right to start wars to take them. I'm pretty sure that America, having the best economy and being the richest nation on earth, doesn't need these resources as much as these countries do.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm not sure that we go out of our way to gun down innocent civilians in a war. Every war will have civilian casualties. People get shot, caught in cross-fire, are thought to be enemies after not identifying themselves. Seriously, in a high-pressure situtation like that, if a person doesn't say friend or foe, you pull the trigger to prevent another car-bombing situation at a check-point.

And duh, gas and oil in the middle east doesn't belong to us. We buy the oil, and try to become allies with the countries that have it, so that we get cheaper oil. I'm not sure that's how it works, as far as allies giving preference to their allies, but it sounds logical. With the greatest-economy comes the greatest demand. I'm sure you've heard of suppy and demand somewhere in your life. In order to meet that demand, we must supply alot of gas, so that cars can be driven, machines can run, buildings can be heated, what have you. We consume more oil than most countries because we are industrialized, and when we use that oil, it helps our economy stay on its feet. Maybe I'm rambling in circles, but I hope I got myp point across to you.

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Harry']The Taliban regime was the ideal muslim country. It followed everything by the book. Saudi Arabia only wishes it could be so faithful to Allah.[/quote]Ideal? Followed everything by the book? Islam never said force people to follow the teachings of the religion. So you can't force a woman to wear hijaab if she doesn't want to. The Taliban even made them cover their faces, which most people believe is actually not neccesary. Women are allowed to work and own property and money in Islam. However, if a women works and does care for her children and household then she is held accountable since she is not performing her main duty. However, God will deal with her and it is to be left at that.

Anyway, if you want an example of the Ideal muslim country, the Ottoman empire would be a good example. It was tolerant of other religions, allowed people of other faiths to practice their religion freely and protected everyone living in the empire. It followed clear Islamic law, the way it was supposed to be followed. For example, although not everyone might agree with the death penalty for adultery, this is what Islamic law says. The punishment applies to [B]both genders[/B], unlike what the media makes people think. In addition, this punishment is rare anyway, because you need at least 4 witnesses. The spouse of the adulter can count as 4 witnesses too. However adulterer must also confess to their crime in order for the death penalty to be valid, just in case the accusers were lying. If they accusers were in fact lying, and there was absolute proof they were, they recieve the death penalty. So that's and example of how the real Islamic justice system works for you.[/COLOR]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']Funny how in Turkey, women aren't allowed to wear hijab to work. Muslim nation my ***. That's oppresion right there, but America doesn't do anything about that. America only supports countries it gets along with, even if they are clearly oppressing their people. Israel being a great example. A very "stable" and "uncorrupt" nation it is indeed.[/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]So let me get this straight. You scream about a moderate, stable Muslim nation and it?s ?oppression? of women. If I were you, I?d be more concerned about Palestinian women who?re killed by their families after they?ve been raped, because apparently their family?s honor was shattered by the woman (through no fault of her own).

Then you ask why America doesn?t do anything about it. Yet you think America should:

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004A6F']Honestly, just GET OUT![/COLOR][/quote]

Right.

This will no doubt infuriate you, but it?s the plain and simple truth: [b]Israel doesn?t target civilians. You need to realize that, see the bias that?s being presented to you, and reject it.[/b].[/color]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f']Anyway, if you want an example of the Ideal muslim country, the Ottoman empire would be a good example. It was tolerant of other religions, allowed people of other faiths to practice their religion freely and protected everyone living in the empire. [/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green]Two words.

Armenian Genocide.[/color]

[DBZgirl88]

[COLOR=#004a6f][quote name='Boba Fett][color=green']So let me get this straight. You scream about a moderate, stable Muslim nation and it?s ?oppression? of women. If I were you, I?d be more concerned about Palestinian women who?re killed by their families after they?ve been raped, because apparently their family?s honor was shattered by the woman (through no fault of her own).[/quote]First of all, I didn't scream. Second of all, I don't know who comes up with these lies about honour killings but that definetly doesn't happen in Islam. And who ever said [I]palestinians[/I] do that to their women? I know for a fact that doesn't happen. More [I]lies[/I][/COLOR]

[Boba Fett]

[quote name='Chabichou][COLOR=#004a6f]First of all, I didn't scream. Second of all, I don't know who comes up with these lies about honour killings but that definetly doesn't happen in Islam. And who ever said [I]palestinians[/I] do that to their women? I know for a fact that doesn't happen. More [I]lies[/I'][/COLOR][/quote]

[color=green][URL=http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/ruggi.htm]Really?[/URL] [URL=http://womensissues.about.com/cs/honorkillings/a/honorkillings.htm]These things[/URL] , [URL=http://www.iifhr.com/womens%20website/ppaperhonor_killing.html]definately do[/URL] [URL=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001793273_honorkilling17.html]happen.[/URL][/color]

[Baron Samedi]

[size=1][quote name='desertranger']That is entirely possible, however she is no different from you or I except that she lives in a war torn country (I think she's the Palestinian girl who is currently freezing ehre butt off, I didn't know it got that cold there) and who like most people would like to live in Peace instead of pieces. I have not seen such a statistic she talks about. In talking with my friends I have found that most people don't really know what a Muslim is *they thinks it's a physical country" and don't really care.[/quote]
Well, no, she doesn't actually live in Palestine. Wasn't even born there. But the Israeli bastards should die anyway.

"I have not seen such a statistic she talks about"...err, what the hell do you mean? I'll pick out a few choice quotes for ya. I'll even add a running commentary.

[quote name='Chabichou, the poor Palestinian girl']None of those soldiers are innocent, and quite frankly I am happy when they die.[/quote]
And she accuses us of stereotyping?
[quote name='Chabichou']They purposely pull the trigger too. Israelis kill civilians on puropse.[/quote]
Are you sure that true? Have you ever been there and seen it [b]from Canada[/b]?

Bah. Too tired to go into the other threads to resurrect delightful comments I've seen from Chabichou. However, she is extremist in her views, and many people on the other side of this argument are failing to acknowledge their bias as well.

And I'd suggest you get some friends with brains desrtranger. Tell them to stop spending so much time at the Alamo :rolleyes:

Israeli's do not go out of their way to kill civilians, but Palestinians do...or the extremist Muslims do. The majority of people on both sides want peace, but it is religion causing this problem. But just a thought...if Palestinians didn't blow themselves up, Israelis wouldn't have any excuse to retaliate. But, if Israeli's stopped returning fire, do you think the bombers would stop? No, because they want Israel to move. So, really, the Palestinians are going to be the ones inciting the attack and retaliations.

And I think that if we [read: anyone] wants to continue this Israel vs Palestine debate, we should resurrect that particular debate [Page two of the Lounge]. But I think the dodginess, but ultimate validity of this consensus has been identified.[/size]

[Harry]

[quote name='Boba Fett][color=green][URL=http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/ruggi.htm]Really?[/URL] [URL=http://womensissues.about.com/cs/honorkillings/a/honorkillings.htm]These things[/URL] , [URL=http://www.iifhr.com/womens%20website/ppaperhonor_killing.html]definately do[/URL] [URL=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001793273_honorkilling17.html]happen.[/URL'][/color][/quote]
Jewish conspiracy to hurt the peace loving muslims.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Chabichou]So apperently they have it easy there, is that what you're saying? Last time I checked, women were only not allowed to work under the Taliban Regime. Other muslim nations do not restrict women this way. [b]There you have it folks, more Islamic stereotypes[/b']![/quote]
Bullsh-t.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say stop playing the victim here...it's getting real old, real fast. What did you think I was referring to? All Muslim nations? Give me a break. :rolleyes: