Gaming Which new generation systems will fail?

[Morpheus]

[QUOTE=James][color=#811C3A]Erm, where did you get that information from? lol

A Mac G5 isn't the "development kit". Do you know what an SDK consists of?

Right now, developers won't be operating from the hardware itself -- they'll be using emulators based on performance targets/benchmarks for Xenon.

Bear in mind that these developers [i]already[/i] have high-end computers -- most of them are using SGi workstations, which are far more expensive than a $1,500 Mac G5. If they only needed a G5, they'd be pretty happy -- the workstations that developers use generally cost upwards of $10,000USD and carry multiple processors.

[i]So[/i], the whole Mac G5 thing is erroneous for a variety of reasons there.

Secondly, the workstation itself isn't what contributes to the ultimate cost -- many developers will use the same workstations for a variety of platforms. What matters is the SDK itself and how complicated the hardware and middleware tools are. I doubt that Xenon/Xbox 2 will feature a difficult toolset, considering that the first generation Xbox was driven by well-known components (like Direct X, for example). The architecture will probably be easier for developers to grasp, rather than tougher.

And sure, Halo is the big seller on Xbox. But don't assume that Xbox relies on that one game. lol

Xenon's success will be centered around the continued rollout of Xbox Live and, to a lesser extent, a new version of Xbox Live that may feature further entertainment features.[/color][/QUOTE]

You were right, James. The SDK is merely released on a mac G5. I doubt, though, that microsoft would release the SDK on such powerful hardware unless it is needed, so the price point still looks expensive. Here is the article:
[url]http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14407[/url]

[James]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]You were right, James. The SDK is merely released on a mac G5. I doubt, though, that microsoft would release the SDK on such powerful hardware unless it is needed, so the price point still looks expensive. Here is the article:
[url]http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14407[/url][/QUOTE]

[color=#811C3A]The price isn't an issue here. The technology you're talking about relates to emulation, I believe. That is to say, the system configuration that Microsoft has chosen will simulate Xenon's performance until Microsoft can deliver actual Xenon mules to the developers.

In regard to power...I'm not quite sure what your point is. Of course Xenon would need powerful hardware for simulation purposes -- it is, afterall, a next generation video game system. So that implies that it is going to be significantly more powerful than current generation machines.

Xenon/Xbox 2's potential problems definitely don't start or end with this piece of news, I don't think.[/color]

[natetron46]

I think the Nintendo DS will fail. Nintendo has fallen of the radar and Sony and M$ have taken over for it. I just dont think that a nintendo product will sell well in America. It has a huge fanbase in Japan too, but not anymore in America. Once Nintendo faded, people moved on and I dont see any reason for them to come back to the DS. I think that if people want a handheld, they will turn to the PSP because Sony is still around and it is a name that people know and are familiar with, especially new gamers that werent here for the Nintendo days.

[Shinmaru]

[quote name='Semjaza Azazel']I don't think any of them will fail, in terms of next gen consoles... However, one will always have to be in third place. At this point, I would figure it would be Nintendo, but it's possible things could change by then.[/quote]

Basically. Personally, I don't think that any of the next-gen consoles will 'fail' and I certainly hope that none of them fail. I won't be buying all of them, as I don't have the money for that, but having as many options available as possible can mean nothing but good for gamers, in my opinion. Some people talk as if Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo totally blowing it would be the greatest thing in the world. I can't understand that line of thinking lol.

[quote name='natetron46']I think the Nintendo DS will fail. Nintendo has fallen of the radar and Sony and M$ have taken over for it. I just dont think that a nintendo product will sell well in America. It has a huge fanbase in Japan too, but not anymore in America. Once Nintendo faded, people moved on and I dont see any reason for them to come back to the DS. I think that if people want a handheld, they will turn to the PSP because Sony is still around and it is a name that people know and are familiar with, especially new gamers that werent here for the Nintendo days.[/quote]

Nintendo's been dominating the handheld scene since they first introduced the Game Boy. They've lost a lot ground in terms of home consoles, but they've been the king of the handheld scene for as long as I can remember. The GBA still sells really well. The DS has done well so far, sales-wise. I don't think that the DS is going to fail at all, though I don't think that it's unrealistic for PSP to get a nice chunk of the market, certainly more than any other competitor has managed to get. I'd be glad to see it, too.

[Morpheus]

[quote name='natetron46']I think the Nintendo DS will fail. Nintendo has fallen of the radar and Sony and M$ have taken over for it. I just dont think that a nintendo product will sell well in America. It has a huge fanbase in Japan too, but not anymore in America. Once Nintendo faded, people moved on and I dont see any reason for them to come back to the DS. I think that if people want a handheld, they will turn to the PSP because Sony is still around and it is a name that people know and are familiar with, especially new gamers that werent here for the Nintendo days.[/quote]
When did Nintendo fall of the radar? Last I checked, they were still in control of the market, with about a 69% share. Ds has sold 2.3 million units. Anyone that wasn't here for your "Nitendo days" will be too young for psp. Sony is still around, but not Nintendo? 21 million GBAs and about 10 million gamecubes have been sold. Compare that to about 14 million ps2s and 6 million XBOXs.

[natetron46]

People who werent around for the Nintendo times would be people who are coming into the game world in the last 5 years. How much have you heard about Nintendo GC games other then metroid prime, I see almost no adds, and I personally know no one that owns one.

Nintendo does however control the handheld market, something I forgot to take into account, tha being said, I think that PSP might outsell the DS.

[Erika]

[size=1][color=royalblue]No matter how shiz or "bomb" a console may turn out to be, it all boils down to this: [i]the games.[/i]

Y'know, it just wouldn't make too much sense to me if a 'gamer' buys a console because it "kicks ***" and the majority of the games for it is purebred sh**. (Alright, I might've messed that sentence up but as long as you got my point, who cares lol.)

Well, I'm gonna guess that Microsoft may fail. I mean, their next console isn't even gonna be backward compatible, is it? That can be one of the things that may kill it, if not the biggest. If Microsoft Windows is buggy, I don't expect much from one of their consoles. I know I'll buy an XBOX eventually, just for a couple games (sad, in my opinion), but there's no way in hell am I gonna get their new console.

I'd rather buy a bunch of games instead. (Quality over quanity? Psh, I'd rather have both. ^_~)

[b]EDIT:[/b] Ok, well, the GCN prospered and it wasn't backward compatible but hey, the GBA was. I'll include that in there. :whoops: (Plus Sony.) XD[/color][/size]

[natetron46]

I completel agree with you about the X2. I bought and Xbox recently for a bunch of good games that are out on it (and to replace my often broken PS2). I will not however be picking up an X2. I will continue to upgrade my PC for gaming purposes and unless there are some truely outstanding or revolutionary games that come out for the X2, mine will have to go to someone else.

[dragonandante]

[QUOTE=Dark Serena][size=1][color=royalblue]No matter how shiz or "bomb" a console may turn out to be, it all boils down to this: [i]the games.[/i]

Y'know, it just wouldn't make too much sense to me if a 'gamer' buys a console because it "kicks ***" and the majority of the games for it is purebred sh**. (Alright, I might've messed that sentence up but as long as you got my point, who cares lol.)

Well, I'm gonna guess that Microsoft may fail. I mean, their next console isn't even gonna be backward compatible, is it? That can be one of the things that may kill it, if not the biggest. If Microsoft Windows is buggy, I don't expect much from one of their consoles. I know I'll buy an XBOX eventually, just for a couple games (sad, in my opinion), but there's no way in hell am I gonna get their new console.

I'd rather buy a bunch of games instead. (Quality over quanity? Psh, I'd rather have both. ^_~)

[b]EDIT:[/b] Ok, well, the GCN prospered and it wasn't backward compatible but hey, the GBA was. I'll include that in there. :whoops: (Plus Sony.) XD[/color][/size][/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that, if Xbox had majority of the games under its system, then PS2 would have been doing badly. Whoever has the most great games, also tends to have the best profits...

[Morpheus]

I don't often say this, but gizmondo will drop dead. It makes N-Gage look like the NES. The price is outrageous: $459.99 US. For that, I could buy a PS2, XBOX, GC, AND GBA. It's got a lot of functionality, like a digital camera and a GPS, but everyone that wants those and has $460 to blow already has them. Is Tiger insane?

[The Vampire: Ed]

[quote name='Morpheus']As for the XBOX 2, how do you see it surviving? Halo was fun, but no one really cares anymore. [/quote]

[COLOR=Red][FONT=Comic Sans MS]HAHAHAHA!!!! Sorry, that just slipped out there... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Oops, did it again.

Anyway, you only speak about XBox 2's inability to survive based upon your own opinions of the first XBox, which obviously isn't highly thought of in your eyes. But let's just talk about this really, [b]really[/b] incorrect statement here. You say "Halo was fun, but no one really cares anymore." So I ask you, where have you been? Since Halo was released for the XBox it was one of top selling games for the console, and not to mention gamers were lined up at video game stores around the country at midnight just to get their hands on a copy of Halo 2. In fact, Halo 2 sold 125 million copies on the first day! So how could no one care about Halo when it motivated gamers enough to wait in lines outside of stores in freezing cold weather at midnight to buy one of the one-hundred twenty-five million copies of Halo 2 sold on that day? You speak seemingly from opinion, and that's it. No facts at all.

And just because you, for some reason, saw XBox as a failure doesn't mean XBox 2 will be a failure when so many people consider the first XBox to be a success. I like the XBox the best of the three consoles, and I started off with a PS2 only and assumed the same as many that the XBox wouldn't be any good. But it proved me, and many others wrong. It is a great console, and if it's any indication of how the XBox 2 will be then I can't assume it would be a failure.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#811C3A]I agree with TVE on this point. But let's also point something else out: most people know very little about Xbox 2/Xenon right now. There are some very basic details out there and a lot of rumors. That's about it.

The main indications are that Xbox 2/Xenon will actually improve on and fix a lot of the problems that Xbox had. And I am pretty confident in saying that Xbox 2/Xenon will enjoy significantly better third party support than Xbox itself had.

Saying that Xbox 2/Xenon will [i]fail[/i] is an extreme statement, especially considering that Xbox, despite being in third place globally, has still sold pretty darn well. It's established a base from which Microsoft can work from. And it's safely established Xbox Live as the premiere online service for game consoles.

So, a lot of factors are being ignored here. But I don't think anyone, even the most anti-Xbox critic, can immediately suggest that Xbox 2 will be a failure well before we've even heard any concrete details on it (hell, Microsoft hasn't even officially announced/acknowledged its existence, lol).[/color]

[The Vampire: Ed]

[COLOR=Red][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Well, I've now found even more evidence proving you wrong Morpheus about how supposedly no one cares about Halo anymore. Out of every game for all current consoles from this generation Halo is the fourth best selling game behind the three Grand Theft Auto titles on the PS2. So how is it again that no one cares about Halo?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[James]

[color=#811C3A]Also, I believe that Halo 2 was the second highest selling game of 2004 in the United States. Just another tidbit for you.[/color]

[Morpheus]

If microsoft doesn't change it's strategy, XBOX2 will fail. They can't just rely on Halo anymore. People have played Halo, and people like it. But it won't be the reason XBOX sells. No matter how good halo 3 is, most people will stick with 1 and 2 instead of buying a new system for 3.

Ed, Halo 2 sold 5 million copies, 125 million was the amount in dollars.

[The Vampire: Ed]

[QUOTE=Morpheus]If microsoft doesn't change it's strategy, XBOX2 will fail. They can't just rely on Halo anymore. People have played Halo, and people like it. But it won't be the reason XBOX sells. No matter how good halo 3 is, most people will stick with 1 and 2 instead of buying a new system for 3.

Ed, Halo 2 sold 5 million copies, 125 million was the amount in dollars.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red][FONT=Comic Sans MS]Even if that is true and it was 125 million dollars rather than copies, 125 million dollars on the first day isn't anything to scoff at either. But you're missing the point. You shouldn't speak for others without the facts, like saying that no one really cares about something anymore when the sales figures obviously prove you wrong.

And another thing Microsoft isn't relying on Halo to sell it's console, although I'm sure for some it was the primary reason for their purchase, because it's not like it's the only noteworthy XBox title out there. The XBox not only has Halo and Halo 2, but it also has popular titles such Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Project Gotham Racing 1 and 2, Chronicles of Riddick, Fable, Dead or Alive 3, Ninja Gaiden, etc. There plenty more that could be named, but I'm just throwing out the more obvious ones. Also, don't forget that while some games are multiplatform usually the games are done best on the XBox. The Splinter Cell games immediately come to mind.

The XBox has way more to offer than just Halo, and is in no way relying on Halo to sell the console. The XBox, like every other console, relies on all of it's games to sell the console it's not just one game.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Morpheus]

XBOX has great games. I didn't say all the other games were bad. I'm just saying a fact: Microsoft relies on halo. I played crimson skies and kung fu chaos and loved them. But I have 4 friends that have XBOXs(off the top of my head) and all of them bought them to play Halo. They have other good games, but they got XBOXs because of Halo.

[Misaki Mitsu]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][COLOR=Red]i so badly hate to say so but microsoft is relying on Halo and its games to come to the future. most of its money comes from the buyers of the game. in 2004, Halo two was the highest selling game of the year. it was all over G4tv and cartoon network. it was very good and its stats have increased by a lot. furthering that the next Halo game will be an even bigger hit. Xbox its self will fail. the new Xbox 2 will be even better with better graphics, leaving the original Xbox out in the snow. after that, all in time, all games and their boxes will end completely.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[The Vampire: Ed]

[COLOR=Red][FONT=Comic Sans MS][quote name='Morpheus']XBOX has great games. I didn't say all the other games were bad. I'm just saying a fact: Microsoft relies on halo. I played crimson skies and kung fu chaos and loved them. But I have 4 friends that have XBOXs(off the top of my head) and all of them bought them to play Halo. They have other good games, but they got XBOXs because of Halo.[/quote]

Oh, okay, so you've come to the conclusion that Microsoft is relying solely on Halo to sell it's console, based off of the fact that it's the reason your friends bought XBoxs. Well--why didn't you tell me that to begin with?! That changes everything...

Wait, no--actually it just proves you're still going on opinion alone, not facts. Four of your friends buying XBoxs for Halo doesn't make it a fact that Microsoft is relying on Halo to sell the XBox. Sorry.

[quote name='Misaki Mitsu][FONT=Palatino Linotype][COLOR=Red]i so badly hate to say so but microsoft is relying on Halo and its games to come to the future. most of its money comes from the buyers of the game. in 2004, Halo two was the highest selling game of the year. it was all over G4tv and cartoon network. it was very good and its stats have increased by a lot. furthering that the next Halo game will be an even bigger hit. Xbox its self will fail. the new Xbox 2 will be even better with better graphics, leaving the original Xbox out in the snow. after that, all in time, all games and their boxes will end completely.[/COLOR'][/FONT][/quote]

And you, Misaki, are saying Microsoft is relying on Halo solely because it sold well for them. How does that make sense? Does Sony rely solely on the Grand Theft Auto series because they sold really well? No, no one console is relying on one game or series to sell it. Someone give me a [b]real[/b] conclusive reason or fact that Microsoft is relying on Halo to sell their consoles. No one can, because thus far it's just been an opinion I've only seen mentioned in this topic by Morpheus, and you, Misaki.

Also, how can you say that the XBox will be a failure because of the XBox 2 will be better? How does that even make sense? Was the Playstation a failure because the PS2 came out? No, it's evolution. If XBox was truly a failure Microsoft wouldn't even bother with a XBox 2 nor would they have bothered to let the XBox survive this long. [/FONT] [/COLOR]

[Misaki Mitsu]

[FONT=Book Atiqua][COLOR=Red]:: sighs and bangs her head on the door:: heres an example: when better computers are made and are on the market and once the prices went down enough for people to buy them at a good rate, the older versions of the computer(s) were not used anymore. kinda like with the original game boy. that turned into game boy advanced, then turned into the new NDS (short way). if you think about it, the older versions of everything are forgotten, until needed in the future. mostly once somethings old, it can never be new again *you can never teach an old dog new tricks* when Xbox 2 comes out and its at a good price, the original Xbox will just be something that collects dust in your room, because mose companies will want to produce games that go with the "new and improved" boxes [/COLOR][/FONT]

[Morpheus]

I believe misaki means XBOX will lose it's support, not fail.

[Brasil]

[quote name='Misaki Mitsu']if you think about it, the older versions of everything are forgotten until needed in the future[/quote]
I still speak fondly of old N64 titles, and treasure my NES. Shinmaru still treasures LttP, and certainly hasn't forgotten about it. Rob here certainly hasn't forgotten his NES days, and I know James hasn't. Hell, James still talks about his old Atari system now and again.

Considering that, and considering a little thing called [b][i]backwards compatibility[/i][/b], I don't think your statement ("older versions of everything are forgotten") is really all that accurate.

[Morpheus]

Not to take mitsaki's side, but Microsoft has denounced backwards compatability.

[Misaki Mitsu]

[FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=Red] i didnt mean that Xbox will fail, it will just kinda have no more use. and as for building a disney land. its kinda like building a log cabin in your butt. its impossible. and you all dont get all "ya you can build a log cabin there" on me.

not just with the xbox its with everything. the producers of the games limits what they sell (when xbox 2 comes out they will stop producing the orginal game and produce xbox 2 games only) so they make the customer buy the games and limit what choices they have of the old one.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[James]

[QUOTE=Misaki Mitsu][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=Red] i didnt mean that Xbox will fail, it will just kinda have no more use. and as for building a disney land. its kinda like building a log cabin in your butt. its impossible. and you all dont get all "ya you can build a log cabin there" on me.

[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[color=#811C3A]But by your logic, game companies would never produce new hardware...ever. There's a natural progression here.

Xbox owners will continue to buy Xbox games, even after the successor is released. This is no different to what's happened with other platforms. And eventually, many of them will move to another system (be it Xbox 2 or something else).[/color]