Avatar: The Last Airbender

[eleanor]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']
Okay topic at hand....really didn't have much to add. Though I still don't think ANYBODY should be offended, of course the casting director's comments (igorant as they may be) were not meant to offend in anyway. Though Korean's and Japanesse alike would be offended no matter what was said (From what I learned while being TDY over there, neither one cares for the other)[/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms] It's offending that after casting a bunch of white actors they're trying to "diversify" the film by having an open casting call. Except in all honestly they probably don't care and/or are ignorant. Although I expect people to respond to this with the "oh, Hollywood, you know"....which is also sad.[/font]

[ChibiHorsewoman]

[color=teal][font=curlz mt][size=7]I[/color][/font][/size] [color=#9933ff] think the best solution tothis problem other than the letter writing and changing the director is to hit the producers of this movie where it hurts- in the wallet. Boycott the movie since the people who made it obviously didn't pay much attention to detail or to seem to care about anything but making a good movie. That's really all you can do sometimes.

That and watch the truely awfulness on youtube.[/color]

[AbbeyLiz]

Avatar movie = love

hopefully they will do a good job with it, i really hope they don't screw anything up. :P from what i've seen it should be great :]
this and The Hobbit movie are going to be AWESOME :D

(kay so new sig. hopefully i get to see it by editing..? i just figured this would be a nice place to show it off :] i also made an Aang one..but it was too big because of the wicked strict sig sizes on this site >< but anyway, i like Toph just as much if not more :] )

[Dagger]

[quote name='Drizzt Do'urden']Though I still don't think ANYBODY should be offended, of course the casting director's comments (igorant as they may be) were not meant to offend in anyway.[/QUOTE]
Not to pick on you, but I wanted to point this out, because it's a mistaken assumption a lot of people seem to make in all kinds of situations:

Not [i]intending[/i] to offend doesn't clear anyone, ever, of being offensive when it comes to racial matters. If a person's words are hurtful, the fact that they didn't speak out of malice is inconsequential next to the fact that their words actually hurt someone.

~Dagger~

[Drizzt Do'urden]

[quote name='Dagger']
Not [I]intending[/I] to offend doesn't clear anyone, ever, of being offensive when it comes to racial matters. If a person's words are hurtful, the fact that they didn't speak out of malice is inconsequential next to the fact that their words actually hurt someone.

~Dagger~[/quote]

While I agree that[I] Not Intending[/I] to hurt somebody, but still saying/doing something hurtful does [B]not[/B] clear a person of the "wrongdoing". But how can you actually hold somebody accountable if their actions hold no malice? That would be like a child growing up around bigget parents who go around throwing the "N" word around (just to clarify I mean white parents) like it's nothing.

Then said child growing up and using it in front of a black person. If the child never understood what that word meant, or the history behind it, and they didn't mean anything by it other than it was just a word their parents used, can you hold them accountable and be angry with them?

...by and by we sort've have a good topic for a forum discussion Dagger.

Oh and I didn't take it that you were picking on me, its a discussion thread afterall.

[TheShinje]

You know that the movie based on your favourite anime series is going to suck when they can't even get the ethnic casting of their main character right. It's not a racial problem, it's definately more a "we should study the original more accurately" problem.

This is the kind of decision that will drive purists away from the movie, based on the series that they love. You'd think that Hollywood would have laernt by now.

I am however, looking forward to seeing how white Goku turns out. After all, Goku regularly transforms into a blue eyed, blonde haired super-Saiyan, you could excuse the director of the Dragonball movie for screwing that one up!

[Magus]

[quote name='Sabre']I am however, looking forward to seeing how white Goku turns out. After all, Goku regularly transforms into a blue eyed, blonde haired super-Saiyan, you could excuse the director of the Dragonball movie for screwing that one up![/QUOTE]
[FONT="Times New Roman"]Slight correction. Goku's eyes turns green. (All them super saiyan's eyes turns green) But the blonde hair, yeah, lol.[/FONT]

[Drizzt Do'urden]

ummm I'm going to have to go with Sabre on this one, even though its WAY off subject, Super Saiyan's eyes are blue.....

[Magus]

[FONT="Times New Roman"]It's been that long since I've seen DBZ eh... I know in some of these images (I'm trying to find a large close-up pic), it's half and half... Some pictures shows them with green eyes, and some with blue (But that blue looks closer to a light blue to blue-green).

I just know I recall Goku's eyes turning green for the first time he went SS.[/FONT]

[Gavin]

[SIZE="1"]Technically speaking Super Saiyan eyes are green, but most of the time they're animated as a sort of blue-green, but closer to green than to blue. Blame Toei's inconsistent animation for this debate.[/SIZE]

[Annie]

[size=1][color=indigo]How about that Avatar? Wow, so awesome.[/size][/color]

[Magus]

[FONT="Times New Roman"][strike]But, but what if Aang had the SSJ3 hairstyle?[/strike]

Sorry about the slight derailment. But then again, you just knew the comparison was gonna pop up eventually, with both movies coming out this year... Avatar is set to come out this year right?[/FONT]

[eleanor]

[font=trebuchet ms]
I'm sort of sick of this casual attitude towards the controversy surrounding the casting. I really don't care if the producers/casting director/whoever didn't hold any malice in their actions. In fact, I'm pretty sure they don't. What I'm pretty sure of is they decided to whitewash the cast because they felt like it would be more marketable and mainstream that way.

And what I'm more sick of hearing is the "oh that's Hollywood for you" response to my earlier paragraph. I forget who wrote this post but someone in the thread said she understood why Asians would be upset...but said we shouldn't boycott and decided not to watch the movie. If what you were trying to say was "don't actively protest, just don't watch the movie", I wholeheartedly disagree.

Whitewashing a cartoon that was so obviously inspired by and based on Asian and Inuit culture is just sad to me. I mean someone can sit here and argue all they want about how Avatar is a fictional tv series and just because the setting and clothes and philosophies and pretty much EVERYTHING is based off of Asian culture doesn't mean the characters are too. Ok sorry, but this is ********. The two creators of Avatar set out to make a show that pulled together various aspects of Asian culture, purposely paid great attention to every detail of the show to make this happen, but the characters aren't Asian?

And to make matters worse, the guy playing Sokka, Jackson Rathbone, said this: “I think it’s one of those things where I pull my hair up, shave the sides, and I definitely need a tan". WOW. How about no.

So yeah, I think we can be offended. To say we shouldn't be is ridiculous. It's basically producers saying "minority actors won't sell. We need white actors." And the ******** they pulled by doing the whole "we hired the best actors and didn't pay attention to skin color" is almost funny (yeah, Jesse McCartney I'm sure is an EXCELLENT actor, and I'm positive that of all the struggling Asian actors in LA none of them are actually talented). This movie had the potential for breaking barriers, introducing an Asian cast for a possible huge blockbuster hit.

This isn't a matter of "it's just a movie". If you really believe that, you live under the impression that media doesn't matter. It's just a movie, it's just a tv show, it's just a magazine, it's just a new station, it's just a book, and clearly none of these things have affected my life while growing up.

I'm not usually the "angry asian girl" jumping on everything as racist and another ploy by the white man to destroy our holy motherland. But this casting situation has really just upset me, especially because so many people don't see the problem behind it. [/font]

[Allamorph]

[FONT=Arial]Little late to the dance here.

As far as casting for live actions of animated shows goes, I usually call any cultural mis-casting as fault of the original show's animators. In almost all of the shows I've seen, the characters look completely Caucasian, or at least European. Setting, cultural background, and inherent references aside, if you're going to make a show about Japanese people, make them look Japanese and I'll believe they're Japanese.

Avatar doesn't fall under that category for me. In fact, the only character I remember looking even remotely Caucasian was Zuko, and that was iffy at best.

So I think a white person should be cast for Avatar about as much as I think a white person should have been cast for Hiro (Heroes).

Cain't mix oil and water.[/FONT]

[Shy]

[size=1]Excellent post Lunox, and I agree with you completely. To have all of these anime feature film adapatations (Avatar, Bebop, Dragonball) cast with predominantly white actors is absurd and offensive.

But for the record Jesse McCartney has recently dropped out of the film to focus on his music career and the role he has played is recast with Indian actor Dev Patel (Slumdog Millionaire.) It's certainly a step in the right direction, but the fact of the matter is that actors of color are being relegated to supporting and bit roles when in fact they should be headliining this film.

Boycotts and formal protests of the live-action 'Avatar' film are definitely in order. Shymalan should be very aware of how hard it is for people of color to find success in the industry, and I'm disappointed by his lack of a public statement. 'Whitewashing' these characters, stories and themes really does nothing but reinforce the hollow 'diversity' still present in Hollywood today.

-Shy

[b]Edit:[/b] Alamorph actually bring sup a good point that many of the character designs for these 'Japanese' programs portray the main characters as being Caucasian. There is certainly a larger issue at hand here (and I'd hate to derail the conversation) but seriously... what's up with that?

Sailor Moon is blond for chrissake.[/size]

[Dagger]

I wholeheartedly agree with Lunox's post.

@Drizzt: You're correct, that be an interesting Lounge topic in its own right--but I'll let you decide whether or not to start a thread for it.

[quote name='Shy'][size=1]
[b]Edit:[/b] Alamorph actually bring sup a good point that many of the character designs for these 'Japanese' programs portray the main characters as being Caucasian. There is certainly a larger issue at hand here (and I'd hate to derail the conversation) but seriously... what's up with that?

Sailor Moon is blond for chrissake.[/size][/QUOTE]
I thought the same thing for years, until I learned enough Japanese to start reading 2ch and such. It's an entirely foreign perspective to think that these characters are supposed to look or be Causcasian. In general, regardless of character design, JP fans accept characters who are called Asian in the story itself as being Asian.

The Sailor Moon franchise has a bunch of live-action movies and musicals, but all they do to make the actresses look like the character is give them a wig and maybe color contacts. Similarly, it's not like Asian cosplayers try to look more white; they just change very superficial things like hair and eye color, which most cosplayers of any ethnicity would have to change anyway, when it comes to all the characters out there with green or pink hair and stuff. They wouldn't think that Caucasians are somehow better equipped to cosplay a blonde, blue-eyed character [I]unless[/I] said character is literally supposed to be a foreigner.

So basically, it took me a while to get this, but assuming that any character is supposed to look Caucasian is very much a Western way of viewing it. It's also worth noting that the more realistic anime character designs get, the more "Japanese" characters (who are supposed to be Japanese) tend to look. Less-realistic character designs aren't more Caucasian--they're just more stylized in general.

And besides, blue hair has no ethnicity. :catgirl:

~Dagger~

[eleanor]

[font=trebuchet ms] [u][url="http://www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html"]This[/url][/u] is an interesting article on the "why do anime characters looks caucasion?" issue. Although Dagger pretty much hit the point.

Dev Patel's casting is, as Shy said, a step in the right direction... although I still question why it's an Indian actor and not an East Asian one. Is this too nitpicky?

Although I will say the hiring of Patel is a double-edged sword. Now it will come off as if it's ok for the villain to be a minority but not the protagonists. The entire thing was handled badly from the beginning.[/font]

[Magus]

[quote name='Lunox'][font=trebuchet ms]Although I will say the hiring of Patel is a double-edged sword. Now it will come off as if it's ok for the villain to be a minority but not the protagonists. The entire thing was handled badly from the beginning.[/font][/QUOTE]
[FONT="Times New Roman"]Ha, when you say from the beginning, you mean as soon as M.Night got his hands on it right?

Also,

[quote name='Lunox']This isn't a matter of "it's just a movie". If you really believe that, you live under the impression that media doesn't matter. It's just a movie, it's just a tv show, it's just a magazine, it's just a new station, it's just a book, and clearly none of these things have affected my life while growing up.[/quote]

That pretty much describes me perfectly, lol. (I've never been good when it came to reading into things either.. "shrugs") I don't mean it as a joking matter either. It's just the way I am, (Perhaps it's just me being too casual.) because I really don't care about the issue. As soon as I heard that hollywood got their hands on it, I knew from that point onward that it was doomed to fail. (Hence why I don't really care to see anime/cartoons/comics turned into live action movies from jump street.)

As I've said before, I understand where people are coming from with the whole racial issue, and by all means, boycott all you want. I'm just not gettin riled up over it though. Couldn't even if I wanted to.. Things like that just don't phase me anymore. (I don't believe it was me that you're referring to from the get go since you said "she", but I thought I'd throw that out there anyway since I am one of the ones who'll say "it's hollywood" or whatever it was you said.)

However, it is good to see that Jesse stepped down. I just couldn't picture that guy with the scarred/burned-up face.[/FONT]

[Allamorph]

[quote name='Dagger']So basically, it took me a while to get this, but assuming that any character is supposed to look Caucasian is very much a Western way of viewing it.[/quote]
[FONT=Arial]Well, what other way do I have of looking at it? :p

Biggest striking difference to me between "Eastern" and "Western" viewpoints is that over here in the West there is a remarkable number of all ethnicities available. There isn't a clear definition of features over here, unless you count the aboriginal for the North American continent. So I really don't have a setting issue with Japanese shows in general because I'm used to seeing all kinds of people around me.

The article is right, for I equate what I am accustomed to seeing with what I'm presented. So when I see a character who has blond hair and blue eyes?or even light brown hair and green eyes?I do think of "Western" bloodlines.

And obviously I'm leaving out a great deal of the hair-spectrum, since of course no one is going to have pink hair naturally.

But that doesn't extend to characters who can be either or. I don't watch shows and assume characters are supposed to be Caucasian?especially when the show is set in Neo Tokyo. :p I factor in what I'm given. If a character has dark skin, I think they are either Negro or Islander in descent. If they have Aryan features, I assume Germanic descent, or something along those lines. If they have dark-brownish hair and dark eyes, I can't really assume anything.

And if I'm reading Cyanide and Happiness and see a round circle with a square body, I assume it's a thing. :p

I do have one bone with the article itself, though.

[QUOTE][I][FONT="Arial"]Second, the notion that the Japanese harbor an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the White West seems to me based on the largely unconscious assumption that non-Western peoples envy the West, and more specifically on the American fantasy that everyone in the world naturally wants to be American.[/FONT][/I][/QUOTE]
That may be, but what ethnic markers does an "American" have?

And (tangent), is that fantasy actually prevalent in our society? Half of the time I feel uncultured simply because I only know the one language.[/FONT]

[desertphoenix]

[FONT="Verdana"][COLOR="DarkRed"]I’m also a little late to this myself. I really do have bad luck. This was completely the wrong week for my internet to be unpaid. A lot of good points have been brought up that have changed my viewpoint from a slight indifference to favoring having proper casting. This is just one of those situations where I would hope race didn’t matter, but it just does unfortunately. Ignoring an injustice probably wasn’t the best way of me looking at this situation. At this point, this issue even brought about a spin-off thread and derailed the conversation of this thread away from the animated series itself, but oh well.

I have to agree that the Avatar shouldn’t be dressed up to be turned into a big potential Hollywood blockbuster, but an honest live action interpretation, which I think the story and the casting was at stake. In that sense, an imagined cultural fantasy should probably best be represented by the nationalities it was based upon. Changing the characters to look like the “audience” so that it can relate to the cast is never a good decision. I have to also agree that we do have a huge diversity in the US alone where it’s not an issue of unavailability.

The Avatar in my opinion was probably the most epic American animated series in scope and scale, which will be a hard task to fit in a few movies. I don’t know if the honest intension of this movie was to recreate the spirit of the show into a movie or just become a quick cash-in on a recent popular series. Sadly, it might most likely be the later. I’m disappointed that this may also be the fate of many more shows I’m a fan of and love.

Just curious, am I the only one that finds it interesting that L from Death Note is English, but played by an Asian actor in the live action?
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